Driver Shaft Conundrum

[ClarkWGriswoldIII]

This past winter, I went for a driver fitting.  By way of background, my driver swing speed is in the 92-93 mph range and at 59 I'm not getting any faster. I tend to create a lot of spin. My prior driver, which I purchased used, was a Callaway Rogue ST Max with a 40 gram 5.5 Project X Cypher.  The fitter, with whom I have had good experiences with previously, fitted me into a Cobra Aerojet LS with a Mitsubishi Kai'li Blue 60 gram stiff shaft.

During the fitting, the stiff shaft seemed to take my big miss, to the right, out of the equation.  When I am swing it well, I have a slight fade but when I get a little loose I get the "right to rights."  I was a little skeptical of the stiff shaft given conventional wisdom and my swing speed but went with it.  After using the driver now for 6 or 8 actual and simulator rounds, it just feels like a little too much club and it has not eliminated the right side as it did in the fitting.

I have a  Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black 60 gram 5.5 flex shaft I can swap in.

Just curious as to all of your thoughts.

 

[GolfSpy_APH]

To me seems like a weight thing. Going 20 grams is significant. Maybe find something in the 50 or even 55 gram range would be solid.

[bens197]

I agree with @GolfSpy_APH regarding weight. 
 

Flex is so ambiguous between OEM’s that it’s hard to say regular v stiff. 
 

I’d dial in a comfortable weight and since you’re still in the 90’s, the 40 gram may not give you what you need for consistency. 

[Josh Parker]

I agree with @GolfSpy_APH that it sounds like a weight issue. Also look at flexpoints on the different shafts. Did the Cypher work well for you or no?

[ClarkWGriswoldIII]

2 minutes ago, Josh Parker said:

I agree with @GolfSpy_APH that it sounds like a weight issue. Also look at flexpoints on the different shafts. Did the Cypher work well for you or no?

Not great.  I already have a high ball flight and it tended to occasionally balloon.

Thanks for all of the great insight guys.  Keep it coming.

 

[Javs]

1 hour ago, ClarkWGriswoldIII said:

This past winter, I went for a driver fitting.  By way of background, my driver swing speed is in the 92-93 mph range and at 59 I'm not getting any faster. I tend to create a lot of spin. My prior driver, which I purchased used, was a Callaway Rogue ST Max with a 40 gram 5.5 Project X Cypher.  The fitter, with whom I have had good experiences with previously, fitted me into a Cobra Aerojet LS with a Mitsubishi Kai'li Blue 60 gram stiff shaft.

During the fitting, the stiff shaft seemed to take my big miss, to the right, out of the equation.  When I am swing it well, I have a slight fade but when I get a little loose I get the "right to rights."  I was a little skeptical of the stiff shaft given conventional wisdom and my swing speed but went with it.  After using the driver now for 6 or 8 actual and simulator rounds, it just feels like a little too much club and it has not eliminated the right side as it did in the fitting.

I have a  Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black 60 gram 5.5 flex shaft I can swap in.

Just curious as to all of your thoughts.

 

The 20 gram jump in weight is huge. However, have you tried the Project X Hzrdus Smoke Yellow or Blue? The counterbalance shaft in the 5.5 might fit you. It is low spin and the counterbalance will make the 60 grams feel lighter. I also think the smoke black is too much shaft for your swing. The black is for aggressive swingers with a quick tempo. 

Edited April 24 by Javs

[SDGolf619]

I have also always had a high ball flight with the driver. I need to tee it up with the equator of the ball just above the crown to avoid the fade and hit the middle of the face. I even tee it up slightly ahead of the inside of my lead heel. 

I play a SIM 2 Max D at 9* with a 65g Ventus R and think I need a heavier club to bring the flight down. As hard as I work to swing from the inside with a draw biased driver, the ball going straight is as much of a draw as I can hit. I tried a 60g S Diamana shaft and the ball carried less and went even higher.

[RickyBobby_PR]

44 minutes ago, ClarkWGriswoldIII said:

This past winter, I went for a driver fitting.  By way of background, my driver swing speed is in the 92-93 mph range and at 59 I'm not getting any faster. I tend to create a lot of spin. My prior driver, which I purchased used, was a Callaway Rogue ST Max with a 40 gram 5.5 Project X Cypher.  The fitter, with whom I have had good experiences with previously, fitted me into a Cobra Aerojet LS with a Mitsubishi Kai'li Blue 60 gram stiff shaft.

During the fitting, the stiff shaft seemed to take my big miss, to the right, out of the equation.  When I am swing it well, I have a slight fade but when I get a little loose I get the "right to rights."  I was a little skeptical of the stiff shaft given conventional wisdom and my swing speed but went with it.  After using the driver now for 6 or 8 actual and simulator rounds, it just feels like a little too much club and it has not eliminated the right side as it did in the fitting.

I have a  Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black 60 gram 5.5 flex shaft I can swap in.

Just curious as to all of your thoughts.

 

The conventional wisdom is old and outdated and swing speed, age, handicap have very little to do with shaft selection and there’s no standard for flex in the industry so the stiff label is only relevant for the shaft line and weight class of the shaft. Stiffness isn’t the same even from the same manufacturer in different lines. So take the conventional wisdom and toss it out the window.

the shaft is a timing device. Getting the weight correct then the shaft profile which gets to where the stiffness is and how much in each section is more important. These develop a feel and the better the feel the better chance we have of not manipulating our swing.

based on the shaft you were fit for you are a fit for the blue profile shafts. These are typically labeled as mid launch mid spin.

based on what you saw your issue is probably due to adding loft at impact and and open face. These are swing issues that unless you found a shaft that significantly changes your swing the shaft isn’t the issue.

the smoke black is a completely different design and profile from the kali blue. Its typically a shaft for high swing speed golfer with an aggressive transition.

how that will translate for your swing none of us can say or say what to expect because we all swing different. And typically it’s those who have a late release that see the difference in launch and spin from a design change. 
 

The smoke black could be better, could be  worse or no different at all. The only way to tell is to test it and see what happens 

[Javs]

8 minutes ago, SDGolf619 said:

I have also always had a high ball flight with the driver. I need to tee it up with the equator of the ball just above the crown to avoid the fade and hit the middle of the face. I even tee it up slightly ahead of the inside of my lead heel. 

I play a SIM 2 Max D at 9* with a 65g Ventus R and think I need a heavier club to bring the flight down. As hard as I work to swing from the inside with a draw biased driver, the ball going straight is as much of a draw as I can hit. I tried a 60g S Diamana shaft and the ball carried less and went even higher.

What you are describing sounds like a swing issue more than shaft. Without seeing your swing I would just be guessing. That said, it sounds like you are cutting across the ball. Hitting it either in the heel or middle with an open face while cutting across. This will cause your high right shots. Often someone who cuts it will try to come from the inside, but actually they just swing harder across the shot. I would recommend having a good teaching pro look at your grip, stance, ball position and swing. Somewhere there is one or multiple flaws that are creating the high right miss. 

[SDGolf619]

4 minutes ago, Javs said:

What you are describing sounds like a swing issue more than shaft. Without seeing your swing I would just be guessing. That said, it sounds like you are cutting across the ball. Hitting it either in the heel or middle with an open face while cutting across. This will cause your high right shots. Often someone who cuts it will try to come from the inside, but actually they just swing harder across the shot. I would recommend having a good teaching pro look at your grip, stance, ball position and swing. Somewhere there is one or multiple flaws that are creating the high right miss. 

I would say I am a cutter and hit a powerful cut. So, for now, don't fight it and just play it?

[Javs]

1 minute ago, SDGolf619 said:

I would say I am a cutter and hit a powerful cut. So, for now, don't fight it and just play it?

What are you calling a powerful cut? Also, is its power fade or a slice? Two different animals. I like to hit a power fade; however, it is carrying 270 plus. A fade is something you can play all day, but a cut slice will eventually get away from you. Especially into the wind. In the wind I like to draw it to cut through the wind. I would still recommend having someone look at your swing. I think you are in San Diego. If so, they have good instructors at Stadium Golf.

[RCGolf]

An excellent choice for a light, yet super stable shaft is the Graphite Design Tour AD XC-4 or 5. Handle is soft, but the tip is firm. Just a smooth feeling shaft that knocks some spin off. They can be found for a very reasonable price too. Proclubs.com usually has some.

[SDGolf619]

21 minutes ago, Javs said:

What are you calling a powerful cut? Also, is its power fade or a slice? Two different animals. I like to hit a power fade; however, it is carrying 270 plus. A fade is something you can play all day, but a cut slice will eventually get away from you. Especially into the wind. In the wind I like to draw it to cut through the wind. I would still recommend having someone look at your swing. I think you are in San Diego. If so, they have good instructors at Stadium Golf.

Definitely a cut, I'm lefty, so it starts right and finishes on line. A good drive is 240 for me but I am 49 and have only been playing 5 years. I will hit a fade out of the middle and a lot of my ball marks at the range are middle so you are probably right that I am cutting across it. I have tried correcting it, but I am due to see an instructor. The instructor I was seeing quit to do other things, so I need to find someone new.

Edited April 24 by SDGolf619

[Javs]

6 minutes ago, SDGolf619 said:

Definitely a cut, I'm lefty, so it starts right and finishes on line. A good drive is 240 for me but I am 49 and have only been playing 5 years. I will hit a fade out of the middle and a lot of my ball marks at the range are middle so you are probably right that I am cutting across it. I have tried correcting it, but I am due to see an instructor. The instructor I was seeing quit to do other things, so I need to find someone new.

I would recommend looking at Bill Barrett (sp) at Stadium Golf. A buddy of mine went to him and gave him great reviews

[BadwolfJedi]

Flex and weight seem to vary between brands. I’ve swung stiff 55’s that feel like an axe and others that feel like a wet noodle. Going back and starting over trying new shafts knowing this one isn’t for your specific swing is the way to go. They should have an exchange policy. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

39 minutes ago, BadwolfJedi said:

Flex and weight seem to vary between brands. I’ve swung stiff 55’s that feel like an axe and others that feel like a wet noodle. Going back and starting over trying new shafts knowing this one isn’t for your specific swing is the way to go. They should have an exchange policy. 

Weight is weight. 55g is 55g no matter what the stiffness is. What you are feeling is the stiffness profile of the shaft or what is referred to as the EI profile. Not the flex or the weight.

which is what I mentioned earlier in the thread about dfindong the right stiffness profile for one’s swing after finding the right weight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ClarkWGriswoldIII]

I am accepting the donation of new and lightly used driver shafts, preferably with Cobra adapters, for use in my research.  

[Erin B]

3 hours ago, Javs said:

What you are describing sounds like a swing issue more than shaft. Without seeing your swing I would just be guessing. That said, it sounds like you are cutting across the ball. Hitting it either in the heel or middle with an open face while cutting across. This will cause your high right shots. Often someone who cuts it will try to come from the inside, but actually they just swing harder across the shot. I would recommend having a good teaching pro look at your grip, stance, ball position and swing. Somewhere there is one or multiple flaws that are creating the high right miss. 

@SDGolf619 I agree with @Javs here on this one. I was struggling with similar issues at the start of the season, so I invested $100 to take a fitting/lesson. My spousal unit helped by finding an award winning fitter/pro and in one session fixed my swing issues. If you lived in the Colorado area I’d recommend Collindale Academy in Fort Collins; however, there are some good pros in CA. I’m sure. On the shaft aspect (the most important aspect of the club in my opinion) you jumped quite a bit in weight which will throw off torque, stiffness, weight distribution, and swing speed. That can and probably will change your AOA and face angle, which changes launch angle and ball spin. All this and more is why @Javs is right. 

[Mike10487]

5 hours ago, Javs said:

The 20 gram jump in weight is huge. However, have you tried the Project X Hzrdus Smoke Yellow or Blue? The counterbalance shaft in the 5.5 might fit you. It is low spin and the counterbalance will make the 60 grams feel lighter. I also think the smoke black is too much shaft for your swing. The black is for aggressive swingers with a quick tempo. 

I was just about to recommend trying the HZRDUS RDX Blue. The RDX Black profile might be too (tip) firm for your swing speed. It also seems that you might come in a little steep to create that extra spin.  This could explain why they put you in the RDX Black. I went to the RDX Blue after trying the RDX Black for a few rounds. I couldn't feel where the head was and had a tendency to lose it right, with the RDX black. I'd certainly give the RDX Blue a shot!

Edited April 24 by Mike10487

[Mike10487]

4 hours ago, SDGolf619 said:

Definitely a cut, I'm lefty, so it starts right and finishes on line. A good drive is 240 for me but I am 49 and have only been playing 5 years. I will hit a fade out of the middle and a lot of my ball marks at the range are middle so you are probably right that I am cutting across it. I have tried correcting it, but I am due to see an instructor. The instructor I was seeing quit to do other things, so I need to find someone new.

Sounds like you could have an over the top move with a little casting.  Get the "golf fix" app.  It's a free app and is absolutely amazing. Take a few videos of your swing and see for yourself. I would also recommend you find an instructor to give you some ideas on correcting your issues. 

[Javs]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Weight is weight. 55g is 55g no matter what the stiffness is. What you are feeling is the stiffness profile of the shaft or what is referred to as the EI profile. Not the flex or the weight.

which is what I mentioned earlier in the thread about dfindong the right stiffness profile for one’s swing after finding the right weight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While correct, tip stiff or middle or handle stiff could all give different feelings. However, the fitter was trying to correct a swing flaw with a shaft probably too stiff for him. He really needs to see an instructor.