I Got Beef With Club Champion

[revkev]

I'm in-between church services - weird to have an hour and a half to play with on a Sunday morning but we have no Sunday School the next two weeks.  Looking at the Titleist website it appears that there are two no-upcharge shaft options for each head and then several with upcharges from around $300 to $800.  Most of those shafts come in 3 or 4 different flexes and there are multiple weights for each shaft.  Each driver has three or four lofts plus multiple sleeve settings for each of those lofts.  There are literally 100's of options just sticking with what is listed on the Titleist website.  Even if you just stuck with the no upcharge shafts there are probably 100 fitting options available.  I don't know why a fitter would ever need to go outside of those parameters.

 

My Taylor Made is a Xi10 10,5 head, Diamana Whiteboard 60 R flex, 44.25" length.  I currently have the loft turned up one.  None of that is an upcharge but I've yet to find anyone who has exactly what I do.  So is it stock or is it custom?  I doubt I would have arrived at this if I just had the website to search unless a big box place had one on the rack for me to try.  And even then I would not have had the shaft cut down to 44.25 to start.  I would have been trying it at 45.75 which is the stock length.  The distance gain that I experienced in last years fitting did hold for me.  I credit that to the shaft length being the proper one for what was a Stealth 2 at the time and my swing.  My fitter got it right.  

[revkev]

Ah and I just saw that your shaft is a $345 upcharge so there's where the close to $800 price tage comes from. 

[bens197]

34 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

TR isn't a shaft you can find everywhere fwiw

This was my biggest takeaway. You did end up with a premium upgrade and gained 20 yards. I’d take it. 

Edited May 19 by bens197

[cnosil]

23 minutes ago, revkev said:

  Even if you just stuck with the no upcharge shafts there are probably 100 fitting options available.  I don't know why a fitter would ever need to go outside of those parameters.

 

My Taylor Made is a Xi10 10,5 head, Diamana Whiteboard 60 R flex, 44.25" length.  I currently have the loft turned up one.  None of that is an upcharge but I've yet to find anyone who has exactly what I do.So is it stock or is it custom?  I doubt I would have arrived at this if I just had the website to search unless a big box place had one on the rack for me to try.  And even then I would not have had the shaft cut down to 44.25 to start. 

My thought on your questions:   While there are lots of options available a fitter will quickly limit you to what works for your swing.   That said, one of the big complaints about CC is that they fit you into expensive premium options that are not available from the OEM and don't do anything stock.  You go to GolfTec which is pretty much fit into one of the stock or upcharge options.  

if you are just tweaking settings on your driver adapter then it is stock.  If you have a shaft that is available at no upcharge it is stock.  You are configuring a stock club.    If you cut down the shaft that probably gets into custom.  This is often difficult to do during a fitting since most fitters don't have different length shafts.  

[Dead Solid Bogey]

On 5/18/2024 at 10:30 AM, ChitownM2 said:

There are no unique options that are only available at CC.  All the shafts they have at CC are available from other retailers.  If you specifically wanted to be fit into something that wasn't available from Titleist then you probably needed to mention that, but I'm not sure how that would have been better for you.  Your fitter considered all the shafts he had on the wall and concluded that the TR black fit you best, what does it matter that it is available from Titleist directly?  Now if your fitter only pulled the TR off the wall and that's the only shaft you hit in your fitting then you have a different problem and I think you'd be justified in going back and telling them you want to see if there are other options. 

As far as paying over MSRP, you were going have to do that no matter where you bought from.  No manufacturer has a ventus TR included in their stock "no upcharge" offering.  

If CC charged you more than $794 then you should go back and ask them to match the price from Titleist.  Or local store did that for my father when he ordered a combo on irons that was available from the factory.

Thanks; good to know… I was under the mistaken impression that CC was the exclusive option  for fitting with Aretera Alpha shafts. 

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, Dead Solid Bogey said:

Thanks; good to know… I was under the mistaken impression that CC was the exclusive option  for fitting with Aretera Alpha shafts. 

They are the primary fitter but there are few others and per their website they are trying to get other fitters.   You can also buy they shaft from several online dealers.  

[JAFERD]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Were there other options and combos that were similar in performance as the combo you purchased?

TR isn't a shaft you can find everywhere fwiw

A Graphite Design shaft performed similarly on solid strikes but was spinier on off center hits.

[GolfSpy_APH]

5 minutes ago, JAFERD said:

A Graphite Design shaft performed similarly on solid strikes but was spinier on off center hits.

I mean more with heads. Paradym TD, TM, Cobra etc.

[J7Hawkins]

I personally haven’t been to CC, but have had multiple fittings by multiple different people (both on a club range and separately, indoor on a sim). Unfortunately, I think fitters are about 50/50 on whether they are truly helpful or not. Just like any other sales position, some are more interested in a sale than a fit. I went into a fitting once looking to buy a new set of irons ($1000+ purchase) and I told him going in that I wanted a heavier shaft (115+) as I had lighter shafts in my irons at the time but had been fit with heavier S400s for my wedges. The guy never once had me hit anything that weighed more than 115 and insisted that the DG 105g stiff shaft was best for me (even though I kept telling him I didn’t like the feel or dispersion). 2 weeks later I told a fitter the same thing, he started me with S300 (as any fitter would) and we tried multiple before settling back with the S300, it was a great experience and I had a great time. My advice for anyone would be not to go into a fitting without knowing a decent amount about what you want/or are looking for, and what they may have that suits you. If you go in blind many of them will just turn into salesmen. 

[chisag]

23 minutes ago, J7Hawkins said:

Unfortunately, I think fitters are about 50/50 on whether they are truly helpful or not. Just like any other sales position, some are more interested in a sale than a fit.

 

... If they are truly helpful and fit a client into what works best for their swing they probably will make a sale. If the try and force an upgrade on someone not necessarily looking for a higher end product, they will probably lose a sale. Business 101.

... Kinda like heading to a Hyundai dealership looking to buy a $26k Elantra Hybrid and the salesman only shows them the top of the line $45k Tucson LTD Plug-in Hybrid, chances are they aren't getting a sale. 

 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

3 hours ago, Dead Solid Bogey said:

Thanks; good to know… I was under the mistaken impression that CC was the exclusive option  for fitting with Aretera Alpha shafts. 

So when the Aretera was first introduced CC was the only fitting option. After a short period of time(don’t know the exact timeframe but it wasn’t long), other places got them.  I got mine from my local guy a few weeks ago. 

[JAFERD]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I mean more with heads. Paradym TD, TM, Cobra etc.

Gotcha, tried several heads once shaft was narrowed down to 3 choices.  Titleist head was 1st with every shaft.  TM was last with every shaft.  The other three heads traded middle of the pack honors but Cobra was 2nd place with Ventus by a smallish margin.  The Ventus TR was tops with every head.  

[Dead Solid Bogey]

4 hours ago, cnosil said:

They are the primary fitter but there are few others and per their website they are trying to get other fitters.   You can also buy they shaft from several online dealers.  

Great… Maybe I need to wait until their are more fitting options for those shafts. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

2 minutes ago, JAFERD said:

Gotcha, tried several heads once shaft was narrowed down to 3 choices.  Titleist head was 1st with every shaft.  TM was last with every shaft.  The other three heads traded middle of the pack honors but Cobra was 2nd place with Ventus by a smallish margin.  The Ventus TR was tops with every head.  

So you got the clear winner then! 

Even when comparing all the new models. I could see there being a slight disappointment if one option was close. But even when comparing the 2024 models the was one model that was better and it was from 2023, still a current line though. 

Plus you got a top tier shaft. 

I understand that come end of summer it may not be the new model, but it still out performed all the others for you. Sounds like you had a thorough fitting and got a product for you that works great. In the end that's all anyone can ask for. 

Maybe you could have found the driver for a bit cheaper elsewhere, but not likely with that shaft. Then toss on again it was the clear winner for you and I think you got what you should get out of a fitting. 

If we always chase the newest and latest tech we would be buying new clubs every 2 months ... Some of us do...

[JAFERD]

4 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

So you got the clear winner then! 

Even when comparing all the new models. I could see there being a slight disappointment if one option was close. But even when comparing the 2024 models the was one model that was better and it was from 2023, still a current line though. 

Plus you got a top tier shaft. 

I understand that come end of summer it may not be the new model, but it still out performed all the others for you. Sounds like you had a thorough fitting and got a product for you that works great. In the end that's all anyone can ask for. 

Maybe you could have found the driver for a bit cheaper elsewhere, but not likely with that shaft. Then toss on again it was the clear winner for you and I think you got what you should get out of a fitting. 

If we always chase the newest and latest tech we would be buying new clubs every 2 months ... Some of us do...

Great insight.  I think the experience disappointed me because I buy new equipment every 3-5 years so it would have been nice to know that Titleist was releasing a new driver in 3 months.   Maybe it’ll be a dud or maybe it’ll build on the already outstanding TSR series.  
 

That, and I could have purchased the same head/shaft combo when Titleist comes to my driving range next week for $200+ less.  But, I had the gift card…In the end, I feel whole but I also think less of CC.

[chisag]

21 minutes ago, JAFERD said:

Great insight.  I think the experience disappointed me because I buy new equipment every 3-5 years so it would have been nice to know that Titleist was releasing a new driver in 3 months.   Maybe it’ll be a dud or maybe it’ll build on the already outstanding TSR series.  
 

That, and I could have purchased the same head/shaft combo when Titleist comes to my driving range next week for $200+ less.  But, I had the gift card…In the end, I feel whole but I also think less of CC.

 

... Reviewing clubs for over 30 years I very rarely ran across a driver (or any club) that is demonstrably better than the previous year. Sometimes a new technology makes a leap but even then it isn't a huge leap. So 95% of their time this years driver will be similar in performance to last years driver. Even if it is 2.1 yds longer most of us would never be able to tell a difference. It is when you have 5 years of 2 yd gains that you can find another 10 yds over what you are playing. If you like the look, sound and feel of the TSR you most likely won't feel like you miss anything with the next version. And as others have said, you gained 20yds with a shaft that seems perfect for your swing and most of us would pay handsomely for that! 

 

[ChitownM2]

On 5/19/2024 at 8:01 PM, JAFERD said:

Great insight.  I think the experience disappointed me because I buy new equipment every 3-5 years so it would have been nice to know that Titleist was releasing a new driver in 3 months.   Maybe it’ll be a dud or maybe it’ll build on the already outstanding TSR series.  
 

That, and I could have purchased the same head/shaft combo when Titleist comes to my driving range next week for $200+ less.  But, I had the gift card…In the end, I feel whole but I also think less of CC.

I still think you can go back to CC and tell them you'd like a price adjustment as they sold you something for $1050 that was available from Titleist for $800, worst they can say is no, but my guess is they will match the price to keep your business going forward.

On 5/19/2024 at 8:31 PM, chisag said:

 

... Reviewing clubs for over 30 years I very rarely ran across a driver (or any club) that is demonstrably better than the previous year. Sometimes a new technology makes a leap but even then it isn't a huge leap. So 95% of their time this years driver will be similar in performance to last years driver. Even if it is 2.1 yds longer most of us would never be able to tell a difference. It is when you have 5 years of 2 yd gains that you can find another 10 yds over what you are playing. If you like the look, sound and feel of the TSR you most likely won't feel like you miss anything with the next version. And as others have said, you gained 20yds with a shaft that seems perfect for your swing and most of us would pay handsomely for that! 

 

The other part of this is the shaft will still be perfectly good when the next titleist driver or the one after that comes out.  He could also swap adapters if he wants to play this shaft in his next head so this isn't a total loss even if he does decide the next driver is a major improvement (although I agree that is highly unlikely).

[NM01]

10 hours ago, ChitownM2 said:

I still think you can go back to CC and tell them you'd like a price adjustment as they sold you something for $1050 that was available from Titleist for $800, worst they can say is no, but my guess is they will match the price to keep your business going forward.

Pretty sure that CC doesn’t do price matching. CC has two businesses. Their fitting business and their club building business which is fed to them thru their fitting business. You pay the price that CC charges for the club and their build process.

They are normally more expensive than ordering from an oem or retailed because they are charging you for the time to build the club and the cost of club. If they were in the price matching business they would just be better off charging the same price as everywhere else because everyone would price match what they get. That defeats the purpose of being a premium club building service. It’s no different than ordering from TXG before they were bought by CC or for those of use who order thru club builders like will peoples. If I want a tm head with a ventus velocore shaft from Will I am paying the $350 for the shaft rather than the $250 upcharge from TM.

That’s the nature of the business. It’s on the consumer to be educated on business practices, what companies are doing releases and when. Titleist has been on a 2 year release cycle for ever with the even year being driver and odd year irons. It’s not a surprise Titleist will be having a new driver out late summer or fall. Its also not news that they will probably tour seed it as the U.S. Open

10 hours ago, ChitownM2 said:

The other part of this is the shaft will still be perfectly good when the next titleist driver or the one after that comes out.  He could also swap adapters if he wants to play this shaft in his next head so this isn't a total loss even if he does decide the next driver is a major improvement (although I agree that is highly unlikely

This may or may not be true. Not all shafts work with all heads including new releases from the same brand. 

 

[ChitownM2]

7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Pretty sure that CC doesn’t do price matching. CC has two businesses. Their fitting business and their club building business which is fed to them thru their fitting business. You pay the price that CC charges for the club and their build process.

They are normally more expensive than ordering from an oem or retailed because they are charging you for the time to build the club and the cost of club. If they were in the price matching business they would just be better off charging the same price as everywhere else because everyone would price match what they get. That defeats the purpose of being a premium club building service. It’s no different than ordering from TXG before they were bought by CC or for those of use who order thru club builders like will peoples. If I want a tm head with a ventus velocore shaft from Will I am paying the $350 for the shaft rather than the $250 upcharge from TM.

That’s the nature of the business. It’s on the consumer to be educated on business practices, what companies are doing releases and when. Titleist has been on a 2 year release cycle for ever with the even year being driver and odd year irons. It’s not a surprise Titleist will be having a new driver out late summer or fall. Its also not news that they will probably tour seed it as the U.S. Open

This may or may not be true. Not all shafts work with all heads including new releases from the same brand. 

 

Definitely no guarantee they will price match, but I've heard of them doing it before.  At the very least they should come down to at least MSRP on the club/shaft combo which is only $800.  There is no possible way in justifying a $250 build fee even with puring.  

As for the shaft working with the next club, of course there are no guarantees but if it was the best shaft he hit with every head he tried across all the manufacturers he tried, there is a good chance that the shaft just works for his swing and will be a good fit with whatever his next driver is.  

[JAFERD]

9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Pretty sure that CC doesn’t do price matching. CC has two businesses. Their fitting business and their club building business which is fed to them thru their fitting business. You pay the price that CC charges for the club and their build process.

They are normally more expensive than ordering from an oem or retailed because they are charging you for the time to build the club and the cost of club. If they were in the price matching business they would just be better off charging the same price as everywhere else because everyone would price match what they get. That defeats the purpose of being a premium club building service. It’s no different than ordering from TXG before they were bought by CC or for those of use who order thru club builders like will peoples. If I want a tm head with a ventus velocore shaft from Will I am paying the $350 for the shaft rather than the $250 upcharge from TM.

That’s the nature of the business. It’s on the consumer to be educated on business practices, what companies are doing releases and when. Titleist has been on a 2 year release cycle for ever with the even year being driver and odd year irons. It’s not a surprise Titleist will be having a new driver out late summer or fall. Its also not news that they will probably tour seed it as the U.S. Open

This may or may not be true. Not all shafts work with all heads including new releases from the same brand. 

 

“It’s on the consumer to be educated on business practices, what companies are doing releases and when.”

I couldn’t disagree more.  One of the most important aspects of sales is customer education.  In fact, educating and informing in good faith is a great way to earn more business.  In my case, the fitter might have earned more business if he’d said, “You know it might not matter to you but Titleist should be releasing a new model in 2-3 months.”  

[NM01]

16 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:

Definitely no guarantee they will price match, but I've heard of them doing it before.  At the very least they should come down to at least MSRP on the club/shaft combo which is only $800.  There is no possible way in justifying a $250 build fee even with puring.  

That is up to the consumer to determine if the cost of puring is worth it. One can turn down that service if they choose. If they came down to msrp as stated earlier it defeats the purpose of being a premium club builder and the services they offer. When paying for a club building  service you are expecting to get exact build specs rather than then manufacturer tolerances for the build. That extra care takes time and costs money. 
 

16 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:

As for the shaft working with the next club, of course there are no guarantees but if it was the best shaft he hit with every head he tried across all the manufacturers he tried, there is a good chance that the shaft just works for his swing and will be a good fit with whatever his next driver is.  

And the drivers that are coming out next release have been in design phase for about 5 years and are also will be moving towards dealing with the new ball specs. So the next Titleist driver release after this year will be 1 year before the new specs are the standard for conforming balls. The release after that will be between the dates for pros using the new ball and the amateurs.

 

Edited May 21 by RickyBobby_PR

[NM01]

15 minutes ago, JAFERD said:

“It’s on the consumer to be educated on business practices, what companies are doing releases and when.”

I couldn’t disagree more.  One of the most important aspects of sales is customer education.  In fact, educating and informing in good faith is a great way to earn more business.  In my case, the fitter might have earned more business if he’d said, “You know it might not matter to you but Titleist should be releasing a new model in 2-3 months.”  

Sales job is to sell you a product. It’s on the consumer to educate themselves on business practices for whatever company they are using for whatever service. Just as it’s the on the consumer to educate themselves on the product they are buying. When the consumer isn’t educated it’s when they make decisions they later regret. It’s one of the reasons that there are shady sales people or why people get taken advantage of. They don’t do their research and then get talked into buying things or paying for things they don’t need.

A good salesman might offer some knowledge but at the end of the day their job is get a sale. The good ones will find a solution to ones problem but it’s not their job to educate the consumer

[chisag]

4 hours ago, JAFERD said:

“It’s on the consumer to be educated on business practices, what companies are doing releases and when.”

I couldn’t disagree more.  One of the most important aspects of sales is customer education.  In fact, educating and informing in good faith is a great way to earn more business.  In my case, the fitter might have earned more business if he’d said, “You know it might not matter to you but Titleist should be releasing a new model in 2-3 months.”  

 

... 99.9% would agree with you. As Doug @funkyjudge an excellent club fitter for many years and I stated earlier, many players have no idea what shaft they are currently playing let alone what shaft they want. They depend on the expertise of those knowledgeable in the field and if a salesman only job is to get a sale, they are the problem. Obviously the better informed a consumer is, the better the experience so that is always a bonus. But with our busy lives and interests, family responsibilities, work and perhaps other hobbies some are completely ignorant when it comes to equipment. But torque, bend point, weight, construction and how many are familiar with Velocore, M40X, MR70-reinforced tip, Torayca T1100G, Integrated Impact Stabilization Zone, Dual Torsional Design and KHT or Korean Hidden Technology that is well ... hidden?

... Like you and most every other forum member, I believe this is or should be part of the service. Educating and taking care of customers that come to you and trust you have their best interest at heart. Kinda like a *Fiduciary Club Builder* unlike someone that thinks it is perfectly OK to take advantage of uneducated consumers if they can make a sale. 


*A fiduciary is someone who manages golf clubs for someone else. When you're named a fiduciary and accept the role, you must – by law – manage the person's equipment fittings for their benefit, not yours.

Edited May 21 by chisag

[NM01]

A good fitter isn’t a salesman. A good fitter is there to get the golfer into a setup that works for them, yes explain things as far was why changes are being made, what the expectation would be from the change and so on. Then present all the data and info to the customer, include letting the customer of if what they currently have is the best for.

Its on the customer to decide based on that information if they want to buy.

When a person goes somewhere to get fit and possibly by clubs it’s on the person to understand the business practice of the company/fitter so that they can give their expectations, budget, etc. they should know if the business upsells or not. That’s the issue with CC is their fitters are both sales people and fitters. Also why I wouldn’t give them my money or even do a free fitting 

[USMCSnyper]

On 5/21/2024 at 7:16 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

A good fitter isn’t a salesman. A good fitter is there to get the golfer into a setup that works for them, yes explain things as far was why changes are being made, what the expectation would be from the change and so on. Then present all the data and info to the customer, include letting the customer of if what they currently have is the best for.

Its on the customer to decide based on that information if they want to buy.

When a person goes somewhere to get fit and possibly by clubs it’s on the person to understand the business practice of the company/fitter so that they can give their expectations, budget, etc. they should know if the business upsells or not. That’s the issue with CC is their fitters are both sales people and fitters. Also why I wouldn’t give them my money or even do a free fitting 

Completely agree. If the fitting is that good, the equipment sells itself. IMO

[NM01]

21 minutes ago, USMCSnyper said:

Completely agree. If the fitting is that good, the equipment sells itself. IMO

Agree. I’m not going to a fitter to be sold a club. I’m going to find out what the best club for me is even if that is my current club.

Now if I’m going to buy a specific club because I want something new then the fitter is there to find me the best combo for that specific club. I can see via ball flight and/or numbers what the club is doing. If I don’t like the results then I don’t buy

[ctg44]

One thing you do get with having purchased a premium club from CC is access to their Trackman bays (I got 3 of them) and any loft / lie adjustments my irons needed. Where that may come in handy would be if you go back in and decide your driver needs the adapter turned slightly to be optimized.