SCOR owners

[revkev]

Okay here's a question for my fellow SCOR owners. There is much that I like about my wedges - they are respecially good at part shots, out of the sand and also very tight lies - I'm having trouble with them out of rough and also from straight forward lies around the green - I was taught to use the bounce on the club for these shots but I'm confounded by how to do this with my SCORs -

 

These traditionally have been very easy up and downs for me (unless the rough was particularly thick) Now I'm hitting way too many chunks and blades. I can't remember the last time I bladed a traditional lofted wedge, sand or lob, around the green.

 

Any thoughts?

[BK in TEXAS]

I'm playing SCOR wedges all the way down to the 9i.....and I wish I could help.....but I don't even know what you mean by "using the bounce". I use the "hinge & hold" for anything less than a full swing.

[Blade]

Okay here's a question for my fellow SCOR owners. There is much that I like about my wedges - they are respecially good at part shots, out of the sand and also very tight lies - I'm having trouble with them out of rough and also from straight forward lies around the green - I was taught to use the bounce on the club for these shots but I'm confounded by how to do this with my SCORs -

 

These traditionally have been very easy up and downs for me (unless the rough was particularly thick) Now I'm hitting way too many chunks and blades. I can't remember the last time I bladed a traditional lofted wedge, sand or lob, around the green.

 

Any thoughts?

A couple months ago I had a round where I bladed several chip shots and a sand shot with my regular sw. I "never" have that problem. I figured out later I had been getting too quick and forcing it instead of just moving with the momentum of the club keeping my landing spot in mind. I was thinking about the "hows" of the stroke instead of the target.

How much bounce do those wedges have? If it's more than you're used to and the ball is forward, I could see that happening.

[revkev]

I think you guys are missing the point here - SCOR wedges have two soles - when they're square they have very little bounce - around 6 degrees I'm thinking - you need to open them a bit to get bounce on them.

 

By using the bounce I mean that I'd play my typical chip/pitch shots focusing on bottoming out of the bounce on the ground rather than the leading edge of the club or focusing on the back of the ball, etc. That technique works very well because it creates the margin of error that is built into the club - you can be off by a bit when using the bounce and still hit consistently solid chip/pitch shots. Stan Utley is the guy who opened my eyes to this.

 

The problem I'm having with the SCORs is that they don't have traditional bounce - you have to activate the bouncier part of the dual sole by opening the face - that creates another set of variables into what should be a very simple, straight forward shot - 75 percent up and down rate kind of thing.

 

I'm wondering how SCOR owners work around this. With no offense intended I'm wondering if this is not a lower handicap kind of question.

[GolfSpy WD]

I think you guys are missing the point here - SCOR wedges have two soles - when they're square they have very little bounce - around 6 degrees I'm thinking - you need to open them a bit to get bounce on them.

 

By using the bounce I mean that I'd play my typical chip/pitch shots focusing on bottoming out of the bounce on the ground rather than the leading edge of the club or focusing on the back of the ball, etc. That technique works very well because it creates the margin of error that is built into the club - you can be off by a bit when using the bounce and still hit consistently solid chip/pitch shots. Stan Utley is the guy who opened my eyes to this.

 

The problem I'm having with the SCORs is that they don't have traditional bounce - you have to activate the bouncier part of the dual sole by opening the face - that creates another set of variables into what should be a very simple, straight forward shot - 75 percent up and down rate kind of thing.

 

I'm wondering how SCOR owners work around this. With no offense intended I'm wondering if this is not a lower handicap kind of question.

 

The dual bounce thing is exactly why I may get a 54* and 58* SCORs sometime this year. Looking forward to more technical discussion about the bounce.

 

It seems that opening the face with SCORs has more do to with the type of ground (sand or fairway) rather than the traditional reason of increasing loft. The difference is any SCOR club can be used out of the sand or for chip shots whereas with traditional wedges you pick a club based on the bounce and then adjust the loft by opening the face.

 

Maybe that's just me reading too much into it though...

[revkev]

It's not as if you can't hit the ball off of a lie that doesn't fit the bounce on a traditional club WD it makes it more difficult to have lots of bounce off of a tight like or not as much bounce out of a scruffy one.

 

This isn't about loft either although it is in an indirect way - by trying to activate the second sole I'm adding loft which adds spin which makes the shot different to control - not only that but I'm doing it a bit differently every time - those differences can mean a 3 footer instead of a tap in - 90 percent instead of 100 percent - it adds up.

 

I'm sure there's some simple way around this and was hoping that someone had picked up on it. If not I will probably replace the 55 with a more tradtional sandwedge and keep the 60 in the bag and just use it like a traditional 60 except that it works better out of the sand.

[The Dansome]

It's not as if you can't hit the ball off of a lie that doesn't fit the bounce on a traditional club WD it makes it more difficult to have lots of bounce off of a tight like or not as much bounce out of a scruffy one.

 

This isn't about loft either although it is in an indirect way - by trying to activate the second sole I'm adding loft which adds spin which makes the shot different to control - not only that but I'm doing it a bit differently every time - those differences can mean a 3 footer instead of a tap in - 90 percent instead of 100 percent - it adds up.

 

I'm sure there's some simple way around this and was hoping that someone had picked up on it. If not I will probably replace the 55 with a more tradtional sandwedge and keep the 60 in the bag and just use it like a traditional 60 except that it works better out of the sand.

 

I don't have scor wedges, but I do understand what rev is saying. This may be one of those situations where the sole design of a particular brand does not fit the style of the player. I hate to see you rework your style or play just to make a club work kev.

[Blade]

I don't know. I went to their web site. When you open the club it is using the back part of the V sole which has less bounce than near the leading edge not more. You may have less bounce than you're expecting when you open it. I'm not crazy about that idea. You get the "high" bounce sole when it's squared and the "low" bounce when it's opened up. The high bounce part is only the first 1/4". Don't know if that's enough to rely on in the rough. Then opening it on a tight lie to use the "low" bounce still kicks the leading edge up. I might struggle with that too.

[revkev]

I'm going to continue to work on it a bit - I went from Ping Eye 2's to Ping tour wedges so I've been using some type of Ping wedge for around 30 years - old dogs and all of that.

 

I'll see though - don't want to give up too quickly - the tight lie business is really appealling and I'm very good with the 60 out of the trap when the shot requires me to fly the ball and stop it somewhere close to the pin (shot shot or longer shot to a pin on an upper tie.)

[Blade]

Just my personal preference, but I like the C grind type sole. Callaway does it and I've seen it on others. What I like is I can open it up, lower the handle (which points the face back toward the target without opening my stance), and it lets the leading edge stay close to the ground. I can still use the bounce from there depending on how steep or shallow I want to come into the ball. But it reduces the danger of blading it off a tight lie for a high lob or flop shot. The Ping Eye 2 wedges kind of do the opposite of the Scor. They have lower bounce off the leading edge going into a bit of a concave sole and then you get more bounce with the back of the sole when you open it. I used to play those myself. I'm sure you can do well either way. But you have to know what to expect out of it. Just takes getting used to I imagine.

[Damon]

I asked a similar question directly to SCOR. My question was around my having a tendency to sometimes dig the club into the soft turf around the greens here in Florida, and I was wondering if my tendency to play this shot with hands forward might have something to do with it. Here is the response directly from SCOR:

 

"It sounds like you're having the same issue I did, and you're on the right track to the solution. Because of the sole design of traditional wedges and most of them having a high amount of bounce, especially on the higher lofts, we have trained ourselves to play some forward press with our hands on chip shots to take that bounce off of the club. One of the great things about the V-Sole design is that you don't have to do that anymore. I have gone to a much more neutral position with my hands and the results have been great. Try it and see if that helps. "

[RoverRick]

I had to have BK give me his Scor Wedge so that I could participate in this thread because I was not a Scor "Owner". I have played Scor wedges. Yours. But the problems I think you are having have more to do with the width of the sole and perhaps the offset than the bounce. Not only does Ping typically have more bounce, they had really thick soles on them. Also the Pings have a much different offset. This may explain the difference but does not solve your problems. I have trouble with Ping wedges for this reason.

 

For that I would have to see what you are doing.

[RookieBlue7]

Rev, they may have little bounce but they have a blunted leading edge. You either skip that off the turf if you try to just nip it (sweep the club across the top of the grass) or you over compensate and job it into the ground tryin to make it dig (causing the swing to get slightly steeper and end up chunking it). May want to have the leading edge slightly sharpened to make it easier on you. That's my experience with them and lots of wedges though, as I sharpen mine on nearly every wedge I own.

[revkev]

I asked a similar question directly to SCOR. My question was around my having a tendency to sometimes dig the club into the soft turf around the greens here in Florida, and I was wondering if my tendency to play this shot with hands forward might have something to do with it. Here is the response directly from SCOR:

 

"It sounds like you're having the same issue I did, and you're on the right track to the solution. Because of the sole design of traditional wedges and most of them having a high amount of bounce, especially on the higher lofts, we have trained ourselves to play some forward press with our hands on chip shots to take that bounce off of the club. One of the great things about the V-Sole design is that you don't have to do that anymore. I have gone to a much more neutral position with my hands and the results have been great. Try it and see if that helps. "

 

This is spot on the issue that I'm having and then yes as Rookie supposes I start to get a bit skiterish of it and blade the thing - I'm going to have some time to practice on Monday or Tuesday and will try a more neutral position with the wedges to see what happens. Really appreciate it dd - where are you at by the way?

[Tyk]

Rev, it just sounds to me like you are trying to use bounce that isn't there if I understand what you are saying. However, the one thing I really like about the Scor wedges is how they interact with the turf when held in what I guess you would say is a neutral position. Now, I have always used and preferred wedges with this "dual grind" feature, using the Mizuno MP-Rs for years previously. For me, the SCOR grind allows me to find "neutral" much more easily. However, my short game is predicated upon precise club to ball contact probably because the grind on the wedges allows me to deliver the clubface to the ball cleanly from most lies. If you're seeking alot of turf interaction, expecting the trailing edge of the bounce to establish the depth at which the club will interact with the turf for you, well, then the SCOR wedges will do this, they are just going to do this differently than a club that hasn't had the trailing edge ground off. There's going to be alot less turf interaction, and if you are forcing that interaction, it is going to happen deeper than a wider soled wedge. A SCOR wedge will sink a bit deeper into the turf and won't help itself out quite as much. If you're closing the clubface down as if you're getting the trailing edge of your old wedge out of the way, then you're making the "problem" worse with the SCOR wedge if I understand what you're meaning.

[revkev]

@ Tyk I do get it - like the post from DD what you're saying makes perfect sense and describes exactly the issue that I'm having. Looking forward to getting out and reworking some of the shots around the green.

[BK in TEXAS]

Very informative thread!

[Tyk]

Yeah, that's a whole other thing there, reworking the short game you're comfortable with to suit your clubs. I think that unless you're seeking a benefit from doing so that that is picking a questionable fight! I do believe that the SCORs are more versatile, but that doesn't mean "better". I do a little drill with my wedges at home that might help you get a better feel for neutral position and how the dual grind changes the turf interaction.

 

I use a little rectangle of practice turf and practice chipping balls positioned at most an inch from the back edge of the turf (for fun put it right on the back edge!), if you dig too deep, a shot that your pings are designed to hit, you're going to hit the back edge of the mat first. I think this might help you see the different aiming point and really a bit different swing arc that you want to use with the SCORs vs. the Pings. It really is ball first, but that doesn't mean closed club face like it does with a wedge with a wider flange.

[Tyk]

Well R.P., I was a Mizzy wedge player for years, but I played the MP-Rs which are more similar to the SCORs than they are to your MP-Ts. The MP-R actually has a more aggressive grind than the SCORs, so for me I am coming at it from the opposite direction than you and Rev in terms of bounce and grind, in that the SCORs have a bit more bounce and trailing edge than the MP-Rs. You are going to be coming at the SCORs from a similar perspective as where Rev is coming from in that your MP-Ts are closer in shape and grind and sole width to his Pings, and you see what he is noticing in the difference in the way the bounce and dual grind interacts with the turf.

 

I find that the SCORs have a better feel and a shape that I like a little better than the Mizunos. For me they are much much easier to set neutral than the MP-Rs which made them much better with full swing shots. SCOR quality and feel are imo as good if not better than the Mizunos, but the difference is really in the dual sole grind on the SCORs, which is really a matter of personal preference.

[mega]

This is spot on the issue that I'm having and then yes as Rookie supposes I start to get a bit skiterish of it and blade the thing - I'm going to have some time to practice on Monday or Tuesday and will try a more neutral position with the wedges to see what happens. Really appreciate it dd - where are you at by the way?

 

Like any other shot in golf you have to committ. I carry 6 Scor wedges and agree with the neutral position for getting the higher bounce activated. You can also do the same with the blade slightly to moderately open (5 to 30 degrees). I will open it wide open (45 to 60 degrees) when I have a short sided bunder shot or in deep rough. The key is grabbing enough club when you are opening it up so you don't come up short. I will qualify this by saying my bunker game needs more work. Its hard to get consistent when most bunkers I play are wet packed sand and then you run into a soft powdery bunker where the same technique doesn't work, at least not for me.

 

Back to the wedges and their bounce, I practice 3 ball positions forward, middle, and back and then stand the handle to work on contact using different amounts of bounce.

 

For your problems out of the rough try practicing the Utley technique of opening the club and then playing with the hands lower than normal. It may take a fairly large swing but what you are doing is playing an explosion shot out of the rough. The Scors have worked well for me with this technique. Just remember sometimes you have to take your medicine, especially if you short side yourself, and understand you won't always get it close.

 

I will say where I have struggled the most is from tight lies (mainly on the chips and 1/4 pitch swings) but I have always had that problem regardless of wedge brand or amount of bounce. I have gotten better my playing these shots by standing closer to the ball with the club standing on the toe and then depending on length of chip using a putting stroke or a small chipping motion...

[Damon]

This is spot on the issue that I'm having and then yes as Rookie supposes I start to get a bit skiterish of it and blade the thing - I'm going to have some time to practice on Monday or Tuesday and will try a more neutral position with the wedges to see what happens. Really appreciate it dd - where are you at by the way?

 

I'm glad this helped you. I'm in Florida, looks like it's going to be 80 this week!

[revkev]

DDelise I meant where in Florida? I live in Pinellas County and yes its going to be 80 plus this week - I'm playing Friday and hopefully after church on Sunday.

 

As an update I got to the practice green yesterday and sure enough the more neutral hand position was just what the doctor ordered. In fact I got to double dip on MGS threads because when I got to the green the guy who was chipping had Mizzie 33's which I pretty much recognized from afar. He's got a set of 14's at home but will be looking to purchase something at the end of this season so that he's conforming as we were talking he described what he thought he'd like and I was able to say right away, "Oh you mean the 59's." Man I felt like I was in the game!

 

Still kind of wish I had gone with the 53's now that I know more but who knows perhaps I'll be able to parly my current set into a set of gently used 53's or better yet pick up some 53's on the cheap and then have them reshafted with my project x's. I'll deal with that in October though.

 

Back to the SCOR's once I got my hands in a more neutral position and a bit lower I started hitting some beautiful pitch, chip shots, even holed a couple and totally did away with any chunks and the blades became noticable only to me - they were a groove low kind of thing that had enough spin to stop quickly.

[Rickles]

I Play Scors in 59 and 54. However, I do not play the more modern "use the bounce approach". I use the more old school chipping slightly back of center with the hinge and hold. I sometimes hit pitches the way you described when I need to hit a high soft one and I agree with the comments about neutral hand position.

I would also like to take a minute to sing these wedges praises. I love how the face sits down when the face is square. Another thing I like about the scor wedges is that they do dig a little and get under the ball but somehow the bounce also keeps it from digging too much and it gets through and out of the turf well. However I also do not play soft turf. In Texas where I'm from we get a lot of tight lies and these wedges are fantastic off them. They are also great out of bunkers as you said Rev Kev.

[revkev]

I Play Scors in 59 and 54. However, I do not play the more modern "use the bounce approach". I use the more old school chipping slightly back of center with the hinge and hold. I sometimes hit pitches the way you described when I need to hit a high soft one and I agree with the comments about neutral hand position.

I would also like to take a minute to sing these wedges praises. I love how the face sits down when the face is square. Another thing I like about the scor wedges is that they do dig a little and get under the ball but somehow the bounce also keeps it from digging too much and it gets through and out of the turf well. However I also do not play soft turf. In Texas where I'm from we get a lot of tight lies and these wedges are fantastic off them. They are also great out of bunkers as you said Rev Kev.

 

They are killers off of tight lies beyond a doubt - I had a sick up and down on Friday - everyone had counted me out of the hole and the next thing you knew I had a tap in for par from off the dirt beside a tree.

 

The neutral had thing is working out great and I'm back in the saddle short game wise. Welcome to the forums by the way Rickles!