Launch Monitors

[Stoffer]

There's a few around here, some tough courses too. Goodpark is a tough one, Raintree is a nice course, the Flying B is an old family course that has fairways like putting greens.

 

If you search the Akron area, you'll see a ton of them.

 

Matt

I'm just a few min south of the B.  I don't think I've ever seen a weed anywhere on the property and the greens are always fast and smooth as glass.  I wish I could play there more often.

[MattF]

I'm just a few min south of the B.  I don't think I've ever seen a weed anywhere on the property and the greens are always fast and smooth as glass.  I wish I could play there more often.

 

Well, there's a threesome!

[wbealsd]

Just noticed this thread.

 

I've got a GC2 I was lucky enough to pick up used. I primarily use the range and fitting software. Like any other device, there will be occasional glitches in reading or dropping a shot, but for my needs, it's well worth the money and the best "bag for the buck" of current LAs, particularly for personal use.

[Sschaffer24]

Well, there's a threesome!

Absolutely! Haha.

[The Dansome]

So more on the SC100

 

It's accurate when compared to Tackman and Flightscope within 1%

 

I wanted to point out just how handy it came in this weekend, put a new shaft in driver and new my old numbers. I was able to quickly put down the SC100 at range and hit balls tweaking lofts until I hit my max numbers.

[Sschaffer24]

So more on the SC100

 

It's accurate when compared to Tackman and Flightscope within 1%

 

I wanted to point out just how handy it came in this weekend, put a new shaft in driver and new my old numbers. I was able to quickly put down the SC100 at range and hit balls tweaking lofts until I hit my max numbers.

 

This makes me ask a question... I know no one likes error. But really within 1% or their numbers?! At what fraction of the cost? At what point is paying all of that money worth the incremental gains? Especially to your typical consumer?

[markb]

This makes me ask a question... I know no one likes error. But really within 1% or their numbers?! At what fraction of the cost? At what point is paying all of that money worth the incremental gains? Especially to your typical consumer?

 

I'm coming around to agreeing with you.   After going through an infatuation phase with indoor LM's and learning everything that they could and couldn't do and how much time it really takes to get a useful picture of what you're seeing, I've come to believe that indoor sims are garbage and unless you own one or work in a shop with unlimited access, you won't have the time to establish a useful baseline on the numbers that count.   

 

But if you have a cheap system that can read just  launch angle, ball speed and spin, then you've got something that you can use again and again out doors to see what you're doing and see if a new club is outperforming your gamer.   In this sense, an SC100 with limited functions but good reading accuracy will be more useful to you than a Trackman that you can use maybe once a month for 1/2 hour for $50.

[The Dansome]

I'm coming around to agreeing with you.   After going through an infatuation phase with indoor LM's and learning everything that they could and couldn't do and how much time it really takes to get a useful picture of what you're seeing, I've come to believe that indoor sims are garbage and unless you own one or work in a shop with unlimited access, you won't have the time to establish a useful baseline on the numbers that count.   

 

But if you have a cheap system that can read just  launch angle, ball speed and and spin, then you've got something that you can use again and again out doors to see what you're doing and see if a new club is outperforming your gamer.   In this sense, an SC100 with limited functions but good reading accuracy will be more useful to you than a Trackman you can use maybe once a month for 1/2 hour for $50.

 

THIS

[Blade]

THIS

It can't measure spin, right? Were the spin numbers within 1% too? If so, I'm sold! 

[Sschaffer24]

It can't measure spin, right? Were the spin numbers within 1% too? If so, I'm sold! 

 

 

So more on the SC100

 

It's accurate when compared to Tackman and Flightscope within 1%

 

I wanted to point out just how handy it came in this weekend, put a new shaft in driver and new my old numbers. I was able to quickly put down the SC100 at range and hit balls tweaking lofts until I hit my max numbers.

 

IF I am understanding Golfspy MBP's post the correct way, then yes it would read spin. Is the SC100 the one that reads spin? I know they make two units and I can't remember if this is the correct one.

 

But in that case, it absolutely is worth the money.

 

And that is back to the point. Launch monitors are phenomenal machines. But does each and every one of us need a 25k machine to learn the  differences from one strike to another, or to analyze a new driver over an older one? We all want accurate data.

 

But $500 to 25k is a big difference!

[sp0rtsfan86]

IF I am understanding Golfspy MBP's post the correct way, then yes it would read spin. Is the SC100 the one that reads spin? I know they make two units and I can't remember if this is the correct one.

 

But in that case, it absolutely is worth the money.

 

And that is back to the point. Launch monitors are phenomenal machines. But does each and every one of us need a 25k machine to learn the  differences from one strike to another, or to analyze a new driver over an older one? We all want accurate data.

 

But $500 to 25k is a big difference!

I don't believe it does. Most don't measure spin IIRC or they have math formulas to calculate spin (ES14). I think were still probably 4-5 years from having a handheld launch monitor that reads spin and doesn't need anything else. 

 

MGS had a good chart on which systems do spin and which ones did not: http://www.mygolfspy.com/swing-caddie-launch-monitor-review/ . Needless to say 10K and up to get spin data is not exactly within a ton of peoples budgets at the moment.

[Salmon]

I don't believe it does. Most don't measure spin IIRC or they have math formulas to calculate spin (ES14). I think were still probably 4-5 years from having a handheld launch monitor that reads spin and doesn't need anything else. 

 

MGS had a good chart on which systems do spin and which ones did not: http://www.mygolfspy.com/swing-caddie-launch-monitor-review/ . Needless to say 10K and up to get spin data is not exactly within a ton of peoples budgets at the moment.

 

Just looking at that review it looks like that ES14 unit is a bloody bargain!

 

If someone has it would be great to know what the error percentage is on it compared to the more expensive units

[The Dansome]

Lemme clarify, I got all excited and jumped the gun.

 

The SC100 does not do spin.

 

It Measures:

• Carry Distance
• Swing Speed
• Ball Speed
• Smash Factor

 

With that said all the features contained for $250 including the training modes I justify as a steal. I was referring to the point markb made: if you have your own unit always on hand, with a consistent baseline of numbers, it's sure beats hitting up a trackman once a month.

 

Most people are fitted for a club before they come home, so they usually know their rough optimum specs. So from there it would be easy to adjust a driver for say a new shaft.

 

Case in point with my Covert:

I know with the stock Kuro Black set to 9.5 I max out everything. Average Carry never got over 239 and adjusting loft always reduced that number, smash never got near 150 and I can visually eye out a ball flight.

 

So this week I threw a Covert adapter on my Aerotech Claymore. I new from past experience this would flatten my ball flight and I was already guessing 10+ yards. With the SC100 I'm able to test at the same 9.5 and tweak lofts searching for maximum carry. I can also see when ball flight is not optimal either. Let's face it when I was at the Kingdom I never saw a monitor all day, the fitter did it all by eye so having certain data that work is fantastic for the price.

 

In the end it was easy to see just by adjusting lofts a half degree here and there that at the same 9.5, ball flight is visually pleasing and average carry is 261. For me this is more than good enough numbers. yes for some it's not enough, but c'mon it's 250 bucks.

 

I'll also mention that for practice the Sc100 is money. It's nice to pull a 7 iron at the range and confirm what you're feeling. I hit a half bucket of 7's Sunday and it was great to look down and see 159, 161, 160, 159, 160 etc.

 

Really at the end of the day it's up to the individual what they deem necessary and all I can do is pass on my experience.

 

We posted a review on the blog a few months back for anyone wanting to read more.

http://www.mygolfspy.com/swing-caddie-launch-monitor-review/

[Sschaffer24]

MBP,

 

One question for you. At the range, how is this system showing the correct data? Is it because it's an algorithm instead of actually measuring the data? Due to must range balls being not as distance oriented as a traditional golf ball.

 

If that's the case I would LOVE this thing to make adjustments to my driver, do distance tapping, etc.

[The Dansome]

MBP,

 

One question for you. At the range, how is this system showing the correct data? Is it because it's an algorithm instead of actually measuring the data? Due to must range balls being not as distance oriented as a traditional golf ball.

 

If that's the case I would LOVE this thing to make adjustments to my driver, do distance tapping, etc.

 

I would say the only noticeable difference at the range is the scaled back 5-10% distance you get from range balls. Me seeing 159 out of a 7 iron that I know is 166ish on the course is about it.

[Sschaffer24]

Wow.

 

This thread is pretty eye opening.

 

So then the question for everyone involved/following is this, if given the capability to purchase a trackman/flightscope etc(say you find a used one or something) versus buying something the the SC100 or ES14, who would spend the extra money on the top tier, versus saving the money and going with a lower cost option.

 

What's the reasoning for each? I'm curious.

[Mr_Theoo]

If I had the money I'd buy a foresight or flightscope over the smaller units because of the extra information they give. Numbers like angle of descent and spin would be very helpful in practice for me.

[sp0rtsfan86]

Wow.

 

This thread is pretty eye opening.

 

So then the question for everyone involved/following is this, if given the capability to purchase a trackman/flightscope etc(say you find a used one or something) versus buying something the the SC100 or ES14, who would spend the extra money on the top tier, versus saving the money and going with a lower cost option.

 

What's the reasoning for each? I'm curious.

Top tier is more for fitting and professional users. guys that need to know exact spin numbers. Pros, and fitters would probably look into that group, as well as some of the more affluent golfers who want a top flight simulator.

 

Bottom tier is probably more for the 3-4 time a week crowd that likes to change gear or tinker. For me, going the cheap route was the easy decision, because I can use the SC100 to hit the range and tweak my swing and see the changes in distance. Combined with a swing byte, I can get numbers and see where my swing needs to be fixed and how much it improves.

 

That or walk into any open field drop a few balls and be able to see exactly how long i hit something without having to go take a measuring wheel out.

[Sschaffer24]

Top tier is more for fitting and professional users. guys that need to know exact spin numbers. Pros, and fitters would probably look into that group, as well as some of the more affluent golfers who want a top flight simulator.

 

Bottom tier is probably more for the 3-4 time a week crowd that likes to change gear or tinker. For me, going the cheap route was the easy decision, because I can use the SC100 to hit the range and tweak my swing and see the changes in distance. Combined with a swing byte, I can get numbers and see where my swing needs to be fixed and how much it improves.

 

That or walk into any open field drop a few balls and be able to see exactly how long i hit something without having to go take a measuring wheel out.

 

 

Exactly. Which is my point/question. I fully believe that these less expensive launch monitors/swing trainers are more than adequate for your typical golfer. Even someone that's a single digit handicap or a 4-5 times a week guy. It just makes sense.

 

It's just this. If you look at the reviews of these SC100 or the ES14 etc. You have all of these comments referencing how the product is so inferior to a true launch monitor because it guesses instead of actually meaning, etc.

 

But my question is what can the AVERAGE golf nut do with something that specific? How do they actually know how to change their swing in order to drop the spin number? How do they know how to change angle of attack appropriately? There are a ton of examples on where the less expensive is just fine compared to a more expensive unit.

 

Sorry for the ramble. I hope that makes some semblance of sense. Haha.

[Blade]

Say you're comparing clubs, shafts, or balls.  You can't really get a real comparison from the unit without launch angle and spin. As far as adjusting your swing, I know what it feels like to hit a cut or draw, have a positive or negative attack angle with my driver or steeper or shallow with irons. Spending time learning what makes the ball go high or low, left or right teaches you what it feels like to change the things in your swing to hit the shot you want. That is what has kept me from pulling the trigger on one of these units. They have their place for sure as has been related.  But if it can't tell me I changed launch conditions with the same club in my hand and only bases results on ball speed and the club you tell it you're using, its usefulness is limited.  Can it tell you one shot with a 7i was low with a lot of spin and the next was a high,  lower spinning shot that went just as far? 

[DanD]

I had very poor results using the ES14 and the SC100.  I launch the ball lower than most other golfers so I think it was throwing the numbers off a bit.  Id have wedges going 140 yards when I saw them landing at the 100 pin I lasered seconds before.  

 

The ES14 was closer, but the spin/launch numbers werent calculating too well either when compared to the Trackman I was also using for the same shots.

[Sschaffer24]

Dan,

Can you elaborate on your experience with the ES14? I'm extremely interested in purchasing something like this but I can't decide if it makes more sense to do that or to do an SC100/Swingbyte 2 combo like suggested above.

 

Spin is something I wish was achievable. I know the ES14 says it reads spin but everything I've read says it's off by quite a bit. So I disregard those features.

 

However I am really interested in LA, AOA etc.

[DanD]

Dan,

Can you elaborate on your experience with the ES14? I'm extremely interested in purchasing something like this but I can't decide if it makes more sense to do that or to do an SC100/Swingbyte 2 combo like suggested above.

 

Spin is something I wish was achievable. I know the ES14 says it reads spin but everything I've read says it's off by quite a bit. So I disregard those features.

 

However I am really interested in LA, AOA etc.

 

Sure thing, check out this link that has my full write up, numbers, pics, etc

 

http://www.bunkersparadise.com/forum/clubs-balls-and-accessories/ernest-es14-portable-launch-monitor-review

[Sschaffer24]

Dan,

 

Love the review! After getting about halfway through the post something clicked in my brain. I had actually read that thread before when looking around on google information on both devices! Haha. You're famous!

 

My question is this, someone made reference to you testing an SC100 in that thread, however I didn't see a writeup or anything of that kind. If you could give me some of your opinions I would be very happy.

 

I'm really looking for something to do distance with. i need to figure out my average carry and just eyeballing it is really holding me back. Also, I want to know where my optimum loft for my SLDR lies. i feel I'm losing distance by not having it tuned correctly (the loft I was fit for I was hitting too high and getting no roll whatsoever.)

[Blade]

The problem is, these units are going by club loft and ball speed to come up with distance.  If you hit it lower or higher than it expects, or more or less spin, it won't know.  They can't tell you if you sliced or hooked to figure the resulting difference either.  So to make club adjustments and see what it tells you won't be much help. It will spit some numbers out, and with nothing to compare to, you might trust it. Side by side with a Trackman or similar LM though, you will get a different story.  

 

Sure they're pretty good for the money.  But without the ability to measure launch angle and spin, they are guessing at necessary parameters needed to truly calculate the result.  They can't be accurate enough to be useful for fitting without being able to measure those two components of the launch conditions.  They can only give you a rough idea of what's happening. 

[Mr_Theoo]

The problem is, these units are going by club loft and ball speed to come up with distance. If you hit it lower or higher than it expects, or more or less spin, it won't know. They can't tell you if you sliced or hooked to figure the resulting difference either. So to make club adjustments and see what it tells you won't be much help. It will spit some numbers out, and with nothing to compare to, you might trust it. Side by side with a Trackman or similar LM though, you will get a different story.

 

Sure they're pretty good for the money. But without the ability to measure launch angle and spin, they are guessing at necessary parameters needed to truly calculate the result. They can't be accurate enough to be useful for fitting without being able to measure those two components of the launch conditions. They can only give you a rough idea of what's happening.

The one I have doesn't go by club loft to determine distance, it supposedly uses the doplar radar. I do know that I don't have to change what club it says and I will still get an accurate distance.

 

Also after doing most of my lessons on a launch monitor I don't pay much attention to launch angle or back spin as I do the azimuth, degree of descent and how much "side spin" there was on the shot

[Blade]

Which one do you have? The radar is what measures the speed. But if it's not measuring the LA and spin as well, how does it come up with distance at all if you're not telling it what club you're hitting so it has some idea? 

[Mr_Theoo]

Which one do you have? The radar is what measures the speed. But if it's not measuring the LA and spin as well, how does it come up with distance at all if you're not telling it what club you're hitting so it has some idea?

I have the ES12, it measures ball speed, carry and total distance. I'm not sure how it measures all of it but I know it uses the radar. I think the reason it has different club selection is for when you use it you can track distance for that club and use it as a guide when on the course

[Blade]

I have the ES12, it measures ball speed, carry and total distance. I'm not sure how it measures all of it but I know it uses the radar. I think the reason it has different club selection is for when you use it you can track distance for that club and use it as a guide when on the course

It can't be as accurate without the proper club selection.  If it measured LA and spin it wouldn't matter.  Without that it needs some idea if you're hitting a driver or 9i. You're assuming it's accurate without specifying the club. If you were comparing it shot for shot with Trackman, it would be further off than you think, especially if you don't have the right club selected. 

 

I looked it up.  This is from their website:

 

Quick Tip: Failing to select the proper club on the ES12 device will result in inaccurate readings and will also not store your club averages properly in the historical data. Remember to change the setting each time you change clubs!

[Mr_Theoo]

It can't be as accurate without the proper club selection. If it measured LA and spin it wouldn't matter. Without that it needs some idea if you're hitting a driver or 9i. You're assuming it's accurate without specifying the club. If you were comparing it shot for shot with Trackman, it would be further off than you think, especially if you don't have the right club selected.

 

I looked it up. This is from their website:

 

Quick Tip: Failing to select the proper club on the ES12 device will result in inaccurate readings and will also not store your club averages properly in the historical data. Remember to change the setting each time you change clubs!

I have compared it shot for shot on foresight without changing the club as well as the range and it's accurate enough for me. Even with the limited flight range balls