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Lies and how to read them


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As my ball-striking is rounding into better form after the earliest spring rounds, I'm noticing a recurring issue. I've flown several greens this year from the rough.

I have to assume that these are the well-known "flier" lies. But how have you learned to distinguish between a lie in the rough that's going to cost you distance versus one that is going to add distance? Anyone got a resource on this (illustrated, I would think) that you've found especially helpful?

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3 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

As my ball-striking is rounding into better form after the earliest spring rounds, I'm noticing a recurring issue. I've flown several greens this year from the rough.

I have to assume that these are the well-known "flier" lies. But how have you learned to distinguish between a lie in the rough that's going to cost you distance versus one that is going to add distance? Anyone got a resource on this (illustrated, I would think) that you've found especially helpful?

I have talked to my coach about lies and he indicated it it mostly practice.  Go when the grass is kind Of dormant and brush the grass in different directions and create different lies.  
a flyer lie is typically found in light to medium rough where you believe you will make good contact.  Unfortunately grass, dirt, and/or water get between the ball and the club face and reduce the balls spin.  A lower spinning ball will typically go farther than you anticipate.    Hard to illustrate because it is simply a ball sitting in lighter rough.  To anticipate, you have to guess how cleanly you will hit the ball. 

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31 minutes ago, cnosil said:

  To anticipate, you have to guess how cleanly you will hit the ball. 

Unfortunately this is the case. You can gain knowledge by practicing but it still comes down to an educated guess. I have hit many shots that I thought would fly and didn't and vice versa. 

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Can’t speak to specific lie reading techniques, but this video is great to understand more about what happens to impact during specific lies

 

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Ah @cnosilthat description helps a lot, anything that will get between club face and ball. 
I don’t “typically” struggle with this because what seems for me is I’m always short! But as my numbers are getting better (past 5 rounds left and right greens is minimal, short still high but long is higher and GIR is higher) this is something I’m going to be more cognizant of moving forward.

This brings up a question though a ball sitting up where you aren’t going to get much between the club but may hit higher on the face is this a situation you want to club up?

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13 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

Ah @cnosilthat description helps a lot, anything that will get between club face and ball. 
I don’t “typically” struggle with this because what seems for me is I’m always short! But as my numbers are getting better (past 5 rounds left and right greens is minimal, short still high but long is higher and GIR is higher) this is something I’m going to be more cognizant of moving forward.

This brings up a question though a ball sitting up where you aren’t going to get much between the club but may hit higher on the face is this a situation you want to club up?

Hitting the ball higher on the face is basically a miss hit and will probably travel shorter distances.  You can club up to account for that or you can change the delivery of you club to not bottom out as low….essentially make you low point higher.  

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14 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

Ah @cnosilthat description helps a lot, anything that will get between club face and ball. 
I don’t “typically” struggle with this because what seems for me is I’m always short! But as my numbers are getting better (past 5 rounds left and right greens is minimal, short still high but long is higher and GIR is higher) this is something I’m going to be more cognizant of moving forward.

This brings up a question though a ball sitting up where you aren’t going to get much between the club but may hit higher on the face is this a situation you want to club up?

If you KNOW you are going to hit it higher on the face, yes clubbing up would be the proper play. As with most everything in this game I do it backwards. I will club down, play it farther up in my stance, hover the club and try to make sure my attack angle is slightly up compared to normal. Think hitting an iron off a tee. It works best for my swing but there are times when it gets pretty ugly with the results too. 

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10 minutes ago, Lacassem said:

I don’t “typically” struggle with this because

I'm always in the fairway...is what I thought you were gonna say.  Wouldn't that be nice? 

I've seen a lot of people in golf vlogs talk about their lies as flier lies, and it seems like it comes down to mainly spin like @cnosil said, assuming you make center of clubface contact.  In my last round, I was in the rough and had 175 to the pin...I didn't think about the lie and took my 7-iron (still dialing in my new irons) and I flew past the flag and over the green...then is when I realized I had a flier lie and should've used my 8-iron.

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If it was truly possible to read the lie well, the best players in the world wouldn't get that puzzled look on their face when their shot lands off the back of a green.  I do my best, I agree with @cnosil about the lie most likely to cause a flier, but I'm still surprised sometimes.  I guess to some extent you need to read the area around the green along with the lie.  If there's trouble in front, don't count on a flier to carry the trouble, be sure to take enough to carry it without the flier.  If there's trouble long, do the opposite.  Those lies in the rough basically expand your shot pattern, you have to plan accordingly.

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Unless it is buried and the grass is growing toward me, or it is tee’d up on the fluf, I play it with the same club  as I would from the FW, but just a smidge forward in the stance and hit it a bit higher.  
 

not sure if that is the right outlook, but that’s how I roll.  If it is buried, I club up one and try to hit a high fade. 
 

Probably didn’t answer your question.

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2 hours ago, M. Parsons said:

I'm always in the fairway...is what I thought you were gonna say.  Wouldn't that be nice? 

I've seen a lot of people in golf vlogs talk about their lies as flier lies, and it seems like it comes down to mainly spin like @cnosil said, assuming you make center of clubface contact.  In my last round, I was in the rough and had 175 to the pin...I didn't think about the lie and took my 7-iron (still dialing in my new irons) and I flew past the flag and over the green...then is when I realized I had a flier lie and should've used my 8-iron.

50% of the time I am every time! That would be the dream!

As others I am sure the more I go through the site the. Ore I’m realizing I need to really pay attention to. About to start a round here in about 40 minutes going to keep a keen eye on these 2 things and see what happens! Thanks all

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Couple situations today. 1 was about 130 out sitting low in the rough. I ended up skulling it, thinking to much a think is to blame. Just didn’t put a good swing on it but I am glad I noticed the lie I just didn’t execute.

another was a tight low sitting somewhat high in the rough. Played my 52* hoping I could close the face to get over the bunker and run. Didn’t happen I ended it up catching it high on the face and almost flying the flag. Lessons learned, being cognizant of the lies was big for me and seeing the result.7ECC2CDB-31CB-44F8-8B2A-253DF893B959.jpeg.65a872ef4eef8dc2e5533a3f8d8b8546.jpeg

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