SAM Putter Analysis

[chisag]

... Pun not intended.   I went to my course today for a SAM putter analysis and while not a complete waste of time, it was a bizarre experience. The guy will sound like a jerk in writing but he was a nice enough guy and is opening a Putter World in December so he was really drumming up business. 

When he put the laser attachment on my putter shaft I commented that it threw off the balance and he kinda scoffed at the idea saying the weight was minimal and it is probably a visual thing for me not an actual weight or balance thing. Ummm no. I told him I hold my putter with a very light touch so I can execute a true pendulum stroke and the balance was different. He told me to hit a few and I wouldn't even notice. Wrong again. Seems simple enough to say yes it may throw off the putter balance but it is needed for the analysis. That of course I would buy. 

He had me roll 10 putts from a small indentation in the green over a disc the size of the hole from 10 feet. I made 8 out of 10 and missed left by about 2" on the other 2. Looking at the data my putter was aligned about 5 degrees left of the target but the face manage at impact was square, with the two missed putts were 1* closed at impact. He said this was a big problem as my alignment is off and I just "happened to square the face of a few" but on the course I would miss too many putts. I explained I used an 8802 style for close to 35 years and I always putted with an open face at impact because I slightly push the putter through impact. He said time to change that. I said isn't 8 out of 10 better than average and he said he would like to see 10 out of 10. Ummmm Ok wouldn't we all. 

Now it gets even more interesting because according to him, the reason my alignment was off is my eyes were 2" inside the ball and my putter was way too long for me. He would rather see me in something like a 33.5" putter and my eyes would be over the ball instead of my 35" putter that doesn't fit me. I informed him I know my eyes are inside the ball and my putter IS 33.5". He then measured it and of course it was 33.5". Well OK, long day but let's get your eyes over the ball. I said that doesn't work for me and he went on to tell me all the good putters on tour have their eyes directly over the ball. So I tried a few but face angles were all over the place both at address and I missed both right and left on 5 putts. When I went back to eyes inside the ball I made all 5 putts. Up to me of course but he would like to work with me to get my eyes "where they belong". 

The one thing he did say, and I am going to try and implement, is more of a 2 to 1 backswing and follow through on shorter putts, although he wanted me to do it on all putts. While the true 1 to 1 pendulum works great for me on longer putts I can at times decelerate just enough to miss those shorter  5-7 footers and the 2 to 1 forces me to be more aggressive. I played 18 right after and liked the 2-1 on shorter putts. Ironically the main thing I wanted him to check was my loft and he dismissed that question with "your loft is fine and you putt a good roll on th ball". At least I learned a little something and will be sticking with the 2-1 and truthfully every experience is a learning experience so glad I went through the SAM analysis. 

[ryan.mzzz]

the sam machine doesn’t like the way i set up to the ball and mistakes my setup with the actual stroke. it was a maddening experience to have to change my setup routine in order to accommodate the machine. 

which of course makes me suspicious of the data generated, even though i holed 7/7 and 6/7 putts with the 2 putters i was considering. 

like you, i’m a left aimer who consistently delivers the clubface:

* 1.8 open with my seemore mfgp2

* 1.2 open with bettinardi ss 17

* 0.4 open with lab df 2.1

of course, that whole time i was getting used to a new putter routine that I had to generate on the spot in order to accommodate the machine, so maybe those numbers reflect me getting more comfortable with the uncomfortable position the machine was putting me into.

 

similar to your experience as well, my fitter didn’t seem to understand this was a problem. i was frustrated so I bought neither putter. I have since ordered a DF directly from lab, using their “take a video of yourself and we’ll figure out the angles fitting process.” 

[chisag]

7 hours ago, ryan.mzzz said:

similar to your experience as well, my fitter didn’t seem to understand this was a problem. i was frustrated so I bought neither putter. I have since ordered a DF directly from lab, using their “take a video of yourself and we’ll figure out the angles fitting process.” 

 

... I have a summer membership at my course and this was a free analysis so I had little to lose. It was just another example of someone trying to make all putters fit into a model that is the most successful on tour. But as we all know, putting is about confidence and a repeatable stroke. If that is closed to open but repeatable and you have confidence, why would you want to change? Putting has always been the strength of my game and I get more compliments on my putting than any other parts of my game. Granted Pro's face difficult putts but their make percentage is 40% from 10 feet and I made 80% but straight putts. Again my Achilles heel can be the 4-6 footer that I can sometimes miss left and the 2-1 ratio just might be the cure. 

... It was obvious he was trying to drum up customers for his new facility not actually help someone in this analysis as his main focus. I can't blame the guy as he spent all day in the hot sun working with players. He said I could bring my 8802 style, Scotty and my current gamer to a lesson and then use the "course" with a membership but too far from my house if I had interest in PuttingWorld, which I do not: 

https://puttingworld.com

[cnosil]

20 hours ago, chisag said:

... Pun not intended.   I went to my course today for a SAM putter analysis and while not a complete waste of time, it was a bizarre experience. 
 

Didn’t sound like a jerk just someone that doesn’t know how to use the tool to fit a putter and taught a specific method on how to putt. 

[BMart519]

Similar to clamping your cell phone to the putter with the iPING app, I can't see the logic of adding weight to your putter and changing the balance point but then assuming your stroke is identical. Because of this I favored a Trackman fitting, even though it provides less data for putting. I have never used Quintic, but feel this is the gold standard for putting because it measures what the ball is doing (which is what actually matters) without altering your club.

The 10' putt test on indoor turf was difficult for me because I use an intermediate point to aim the face requiring me to "read" each putt from behind and step in or marking a spot on the turf to align to. Even with less "tech" I feel the Edel fitting process is superior than making equipment decisions based on the SAM data. The path data and stroke length was interesting for SAM and one of the more valuable items IMO. 

[GolfSpy TCB]

On 8/20/2022 at 10:43 PM, chisag said:

When he put the laser attachment on my putter shaft I commented that it threw off the balance

Yes, I'm equally suprised that this is where "current" technology is for measuring putter path data.  We can track a ball starting from a static position then accelerating to 100+MPH instantaneiously - measuring speed, launch angle and spin.... but a putting stroke requires clamping a "laser" on to the shaft?!?  I'm missing something here. 

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Tiftaaft

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, Tiftaaft said:

Yes, I'm equally suprised that this is where "current" technology is for measuring putter path data.  We can track a ball starting from a static position then accelerating to 100+MPH instantaneiously - measuring speed, launch angle and spin.... but a putting stroke requires clamping a "laser" on to the shaft?!?  I'm missing something here. 

 

Quintic doesn’t need anything,  but it is primarily measuring the ball with some putter data. It it is camera based.     You can also use launch monitors like trackman and GCQuad since they have putting measurements using the dots like on full swing.   puttlab, capto and other putting specific devices attach so the can measure all the fine movements through the stroke.  Not ideal but it is what is available.    the 48 gram sensors obviously adds to total weight but they are generally put on the balance point to attempt to minimize impact to stroke.  Probably better for more mechanical leaning players as Sam showed how someone that is feel based reacts to the sensor. I’ve used a couple of the sensor based systems; including Puttlab when the sensor had wires running to the main unit, and it didn’t bother me and my stroke tendencies were reflective on f what I actually did during the stroke.