Sorting through Swing Thoughts / Accountability thread

[vandyland]

12 hours ago, Goober said:

Maybe I’m old school. But lower body focus tends to fix it all.One of my favorite 

Always love to hear from Monte, he is the only coach I am working with at this time (though I may not be the best advertisement for him!). I can be a bit of a poor student at times. 

I got some swings in last night in the frosty Nashville air. It was about 35 degrees outside last night so good contact was a must. I worked on pushing my right (trail arm) away from my body as much as possible and while it looked decent on the down the line video (still probably a little overbent in the trail arm -- I have an amazon package coming tomorrow with 4 swim "floaties"):

It really showed up in the face on, at least to me, and it seems to accomplish two things (1) width and all that and (2) it stops my swing and makes it much harder to "overswing" or have my hands runout. Try to spot the early fold of the right arm vs the “width” swing below (hopefully it is easy):

Work in progress, still setting up a little too far from the ball and probably doing a host of other things wrong but this feels like some progress.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by vandyland

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Always love to hear from Monte, he is the only coach I am working with at this time (though I may not be the best advertisement for him!). I can be a bit of a poor student at times. 

I got some swings in last night in the frosty Nashville air. It was about 35 degrees outside last night so good contact was a must. I worked on pushing my right (trail arm) away from my body as much as possible and while it looked decent on the down the line video:

 

 

 

It really showed up in the face on, at least to me, and it seems to accomplish two things (1) width and all that and (2) it stops my swing and makes it much harder to "overswing" or have my hands runout. Try to spot the early fold of the right arm vs the “width” swing below (hopefully it is easy):

Work on adding left side tilt. You are pretty flat in both the shoulders and hips. It will help you be in a better position in transition to not get stuck. 
 

and will probably help with not getting so much mass behind the ball and get better pressure shift 

[Wildthing]

17 hours ago, Goober said:

Some great shallow thoughts in this thread.Here is one that may help as well. Maybe I’m old school. But lower body focus tends to fix it all.One of my favorite 

 

There are a few things in MS's video above that doesn't make sense to me.

1. The straightening of the trail arm in the downswing to P6.  I don't see that happening to any great degree in many golfer swings although I'm open to seeing any evidence that can prove it.

2. He doesn't make it clear whether he is defining shoulders separately to the chest . I am assuming he thinks it's one and the same although the shoulder girdle sits on the ribcage (just like a large overcoat sits on your torso).  The shoulder girdle and chest can move independently within a certain degree of range of motion and can have its own 'x-factor' stretch. 

From 38:21 he talks about x-factor stretch, about the separation between the hips and shoulders during transition.  I am assuming he really means separation between chest(thorax) and pelvis during transition (not the shoulders).  

As far as I am aware , there can be X-factor stretch created between the shoulder girdle muscles and the chest , also between chest and the pelvis and also between the wrists and the arms.

3. MS says almost universally in elite golfers, by the time the swing gets to left arm parallel (ie. P5) in the downswing the left arm is accelerating from the chest. He says learn how to do this by looking at "Rory McIlroy where his chest does not turn, that's how he hits the ball so far. He turns his hips a good 30 degrees and drops his arms maybe this much before his shoulders start to turn."

" The longer you keep your chest closed and stay in left tilt, that creates the big x-factor stretch and allow the left arm to accelerate away from the chest"

I am assuming he is using the same info/opinion from Michael Neff  (founder of GEARS)  about Rory that is mentioned in this video below at 18:44 -23:50

https://youtu.be/xyxfFZfL7Fg

But the distance that Rory lowers his arms/hands is nowhere near the exaggerated distance MS infers in his video. Also Michael Neff never once says that Rory has stopped turning his shoulders/chest during the downswing. 

I'm not sure that retention of left lateral spine tilt and that 6 inch drop of the arms in the early downswing can explain in totality why Rory hits the ball so far.  I'm more likely to believe it's a lot more complicated and involves many other variables in his golf swing mechanics.

If you look at Rory's kinematic sequence graph below on the left , can you see the 'green line' (ie. his chest/thorax) rotating at zero degrees per second in the early downswing (ie.  moving along the horizontal time axis)? If no , then his chest is rotating and hasn't momentarily stopped.   I'm sure the lead upper arm is starting to accelerate quicker than the chest in its own 3D plane as the early downswing progresses and that is probably due to assistance by trail upper arm adduction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Wildthing

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, Wildthing said:

1. The straightening of the trail arm in the downswing to P6.  I don't see that happening to any great degree in many golfer swings although I'm open to seeing any evidence that can prove it.

This has literally been shown to you in several amg videos including me pointing to the specific timestamp in the pros vs ams shallowing video 

4 minutes ago, Wildthing said:

I'm not sure that retention of left lateral spine tilt and that 6 inch drop of the arms in the early downswing can explain in totality why Rory hits the ball so far.  I'm more likely to believe its a lot more complicated and involves many other variables in his golf swing mechanic

Its part of the reason as is Rory’s use of ground reaction forces. Rory is one of the best at this. It’s why he is leading the tour in driver distance despite not being one of the biggest out there. 
 

And yes Monte is using gears data.

[vandyland]

27 minutes ago, Wildthing said:

1. The straightening of the trail arm in the downswing to P6.  I don't see that happening to any great degree in many golfer swings although I'm open to seeing any evidence that can prove it.

Is it possible that this is also helpful as a feel? Like I am trying to straighten my trail arm just as I am trying not to turn (both of those things don't happen for me in P6 but they headed in that direction or attempted). 

[Wildthing]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

Is it possible that this is also helpful as a feel? Like I am trying to straighten my trail arm just as I am trying not to turn (both of those things don't happen for me in P6 but they headed in that direction or attempted). 

It might be helpful as a feel for some , but I think the amount of trail arm straightening is dependent on other variables that the golfer finds biomechanically natural for them.  Not all golfers might benefit from the Justin Rose drill or MS's feel image below.  Further,  if they overexaggerate and ingrain that specific movement, they might end up hitting fat shots.

With regards AMG videos , I don't know over what sample of golfers 3D data they've used but maybe they should publish it before claiming this is what PROs do vs AMs.

I will check if there is any average 3D data on trail elbow bend vs time with Michael Neff and Dr Phil Cheetham (or even Jon Sinclair) as they have 100's of pro golfer data on their GEARS and AMM3D systems. 

Also , MS sort of denounced X-factor but he needs to be more careful, because X-factor is important for creating clubhead speed but the way it's created (ie. purposely restricting the rotation of the pelvis) might not be the optimal way (see video below with Dr Phil Cheetham - renowned golf biomechanics scientist).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UbtLZo2Wos

In fact, Dr Cheetham says the X-factor is equally as important as X-factor stretch.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Wildthing

[Wildthing]

With regards the extent of the straightening of the trail arm check out Justin Thomas below:

 

He has a spinning pelvis action and outstretched lead arm such that the angle between his lead arm and shaft is almost 180 degrees at impact. Look at his trail elbow bend just before P6 , its about 10-15 degrees more than a 90 degree angle between his forearm and upper arm.

Now look at Sergio Garcia

Image 2 is club horizontal in the downswing (P6)  and his elbow has straightened significantly more than JT . Also his lead arm plane is more vertical and the shaft makes an angle with his lead arm far less than 180 degrees at impact (image 4).

Here is Milo Lines

 

He's another golfer who has outstretched lead arm and has not straightened his trail elbow by much 

Here's a selection of golfers at P6 with varying trail arm elbow bend and I suspect it's related to a whole range of variables in their swing .

Image 1 = Justin Thomas; image 2 = Tommy Fleetwood; image 3 = Adam Scott; image 4 = Rory McIlroy; image 5 = Brooks Koepka, image 6 = Dustin Johnson

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Wildthing

[Wildthing]

7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This has literally been shown to you in several amg videos including me pointing to the specific timestamp in the pros vs ams shallowing video 

Its part of the reason as is Rory’s use of ground reaction forces. Rory is one of the best at this. It’s why he is leading the tour in driver distance despite not being one of the biggest out there. 
 

And yes Monte is using gears data.

What proof do you have that Rory's use of grfs is responsible for his driving distance?  A golf biomechanics scientist who is an expert on GRFs is Dr Scott Lynn and he sent me an email saying the following:

"Thanks so much for your email.  You ask some really good questions that I don’t think anyone has the answers to yet.  I’m not aware of any published work that has been done to date where the GRFs have been measured on the same swings where club inverse dynamics analyses were run so that the calculated club/hands kinetic values could be related to the measured GRFs.  Hopefully this type of work will happen soon as this would really help our understanding of golf swing mechanics."

Dr Kwon thinks there is a grf cause and effect to clubhead speed in his research articles but I've also read articles by other scientists who state no correlation.

 

[vandyland]

Well, here is a historical lookback of my top of the backswing positions going back to 2021 (first picture and then chronological to now):

This is pre-monte...big arm bend, almost flat shoulder turn (it is a driver so would expect flatter but still)

Also pre monte, also driver also very similar to the above swing:

This image below is especially alarming because I was just starting NTC here but had no idea what I was doing. Massively long swing, HUGE trail arm over bending, just ughh:

This is about 6 months into NTC but before I had taken a live lesson with him or been to the clinic...still a lot of arm overbend in the trail arm (consistently been in my swing forever apparently)

This was a week or two ago when I finally determined I had a trail elbow problem:

This is a random set of images at the top of the backswing from today's range session. Not really a DRAMATIC change but just holding off on the trail elbow bend gets my lead arm on or above my shoulder plane which I like. Also gets me a lot wider in the backswing. They do all look pretty consistent though. For the most part I hit the ball decent with my miss being a little thin. I think the folding and unfolding of trail arm also was part of my release so now I have to sync my wrists better since I don't have as much trail arm bend. Overall, it is encouraging. I didn't have the guts to pull out Driver because I don't want to be discouraged this early. Driver is going to feel...weird. 

The best news is that believe it or not these are all different swings (the last 3 look SO similar it is crazy) the main difference to me is the shaft position is slightly different.  

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by vandyland

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

Well, here is a historical lookback of my top of the backswing positions going back to 2021 (first picture and then chronological to now):

This is pre-monte...big arm bend, almost flat shoulder turn (it is a driver so would expect flatter but still)

Also pre monte, also driver also very similar to the above swing:

This image below is especially alarming because I was just starting NTC here but had no idea what I was doing. Massively long swing, HUGE trail arm over bending, just ughh:

This is about 6 months into NTC but before I had taken a live lesson with him or been to the clinic...still a lot of arm overbend in the trail arm (consistently been in my swing forever apparently)

This was a week or two ago when I finally determined I had a trail elbow problem:

This is a random set of images at the top of the backswing from today's range session. Not really a DRAMATIC change but just holding off on the trail elbow bend gets my lead arm on or above my shoulder plane which I like. Also gets me a lot wider in the backswing. They do all look pretty consistent though. For the most part I hit the ball decent with my miss being a little thin. I think the folding and unfolding of trail arm also was part of my release so now I have to sync my wrists better since I don't have as much trail arm bend. Overall, it is encouraging. I didn't have the guts to pull out Driver because I don't want to be discouraged this early. Driver is going to feel...weird. 

The best news is that believe it or not these are all different swings (the last 3 look SO similar it is crazy) the main difference to me is the shaft position is slightly different.  

 

In the recent photos your still pretty flat and can tell you are left hip out and not right hip back. You look less laid off in the swing but it looks like wrist set in the backswing is late and maybe a little added lead forearm rotation.

These things will tend to lead poor transition because the right hip is going to want to shoot out first and that leads to steep transition, in better players getting stuck and having to create room by early extending also creates the big in to out path to 3+ degrees.

It’s good you are working on the proper elbow bend, but working on proper shift and hip movement and getting more left bend will solve a lot of other issues. 
 

edit: you have put in some good work and there are noticeable changes in how the swing looks and you have course corrected a couple times either before or after your clinic and lessons with Monte. The work ethic is admirable and you’ll get the swing sorted out 

Edited November 29, 2023 by RickyBobby_PR

[Goober]

Great job Vanty.I received a pm that stated Monty was secretly working with Rory a while back.If that is true I believe it.I see a bunch of NTC in Rory.And I’m sure NTC works for many a tour player in the top 25 as well.I see NTC and Broomforce in so many 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Goober

[vandyland]

15 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

In the recent photos your still pretty flat and can tell you are left hip out and not right hip back.

I would agree the lower half is still a bit of a mess. For my own sanity (and vanity) I had to get my hands higher and that trail arm bend seems to be solving that. Hopefully when I get my swim floatie I can focus more on my lower body moves since I will have the floatie to signal if my trail arm is breaking down again. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I would agree the lower half is still a bit of a mess. For my own sanity (and vanity) I had to get my hands higher and that trail arm bend seems to be solving that. Hopefully when I get my swim floatie I can focus more on my lower body moves since I will have the floatie to signal if my trail arm is breaking down again. 

If you wanted to work on something that incorporates what you are trying to do with the right elbow and the lower body is to go to ntc and work on the wrist set and push the hands to 7 o clock. You can check your elbow at that point. That is basically the end of the swing and from there it’s just completing the turn to the top with nothing left for the wrist or arms to do

[vandyland]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you wanted to work on something that incorporates what you are trying to do with the right elbow and the lower body is to go to ntc and work on the wrist set and push the hands to 7 o clock. You can check your elbow at that point. That is basically the end of the swing and from there it’s just completing the turn to the top with nothing left for the wrist or arms to do

I always feel like I didn't perform that push to 7 o'clock correctly because that gets me REALLY flat. I guess I need a lot of left side bend to get myself to not be so steep? How do I know if I am getting my right hip back rather than my left hip forward? 

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I always feel like I didn't perform that push to 7 o'clock correctly because that gets me REALLY flat. I guess I need a lot of left side bend to get myself to not be so steep? How do I know if I am getting my right hip back rather than my left hip forward? 

Proper wrist set and left bend take care of the flat

With the push to 7 the right hip will work back automatically 

If you want to do a drill to feel it. Stand a couple inches from the wall, take your golf stance then feel as if you are pushing the right pocket back. This will get the right side onto the wall. From there you can then maintain the right cheek on the wall and turn it towards the “target”

if you want to take it to the next level do this 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CseNygvrDC_/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Edited November 29, 2023 by RickyBobby_PR

[vandyland]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

if you want to take it to the next level do this 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CseNygvrDC_/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

What I found interesting in that video is that it is different than the "zipper away" feel that I always struggled with. This feel/drill/movement pattern that he is describing here makes more sense to me. But it is still quite difficult to build into a swing that never really had any hip depth to begin with.

Also, how do you feel about the "Heel toe, toe heel" drill?

[RickyBobby_PR]

58 minutes ago, vandyland said:

What I found interesting in that video is that it is different than the "zipper away" feel that I always struggled with. This feel/drill/movement pattern that he is describing here makes more sense to me. But it is still quite difficult to build into a swing that never really had any hip depth to begin with.

Also, how do you feel about the "Heel toe, toe heel" drill?

New feelings are always strange and will feel strange for awhile and trying to get them to work is hard, it’s why new movements need to be done slow and not to worry about the results. When doing them do 3-5 swings with the drill then 10 regular swings 

The heel toe drill is pretty good. There are a couple variations I’ve seen but they are good.

AMG has one in their membership material where they use a squeaky toy under the lead heel and have guy lift the heel then put it down. Pressure moves to the opposite foot which is what makes the heel toe drill to get the feeling of shift pressure.

Edited November 30, 2023 by RickyBobby_PR

[vandyland]

So this is me trying to overdo it with side bend, and it barely even changes:

I did lose some of my trail arm integrity but I feel like I am tilting my left shoulder so hard towards the ball and then I see the video and it’s like “huh? That’s it?”

Edit: after being out there for 45 minutes it is too much, I’ve got (1) trail arm (2) left side bend (3) right hip back (4) then trying to unwind out of that and get into the ball (5) and do that without extending into the ball. It’s a mess. I think the left side bend should also shove the hip back but it is hard to left side bend and keep my trail arm from overbending AND set my wrists. I mean, jesus, how does anyone do all this. When do you stop with your swing and say “this is enough?” 
 

I do think a “trigger” might be helpful to get me moving a little bit but I have to be careful overusing that.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by vandyland

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, vandyland said:

Edit: after being out there for 45 minutes it is too much, I’ve got (1) trail arm (2) left side bend (3) right hip back (4) then trying to unwind out of that and get into the ball (5) and do that without extending into the ball. It’s a mess. I think the left side bend should also shove the hip back but it is hard to left side bend and keep my trail arm from overbending AND set my wrists. I mean, jesus, how does anyone do all this. When do you stop with your swing and say “this is enough?” 

9 hours ago, vandyland said:

I do think a “trigger” might be helpful to get me moving a little bit but I have to be careful overusing that.

Going to start with this. I agree and that trigger should be what gets the pressure going to the trail side. You should be at 55/45 or 60/40 lead side at setup that should start moving to 60/40 trail side and by p3 be at 70/30.

Wanted to start there because some of the issue comes from a static start. You lose connection with the chest early in the takeaway. So the body and club are out of sync. Also cause the separation between the arms(Pic1). Which is where something like the smartball comes in 

this causes the right elbow to bend a lot early combine that with not setting the wrists at p2 lead to eventually getting rhe shaft laid off (pic2) shows shaft being shallower than it should be. The butt if the shaft should be pointing at the ball line or between the  ball and about 6” inside. 
 

9 hours ago, vandyland said:

like I am tilting my left shoulder so hard towards the ball and then I see the video and it’s like “huh? That’s it?”

When your arms get disconnected from the body and your hips move in the opposite direction it makes getting left bend harder and it’s also harder to turn the shoulders and rib cage.

you end up with an over extended right knee and over flexed left knee and a what’s commonly called a false turn.

In pic 3 you aren’t in a bad position especially with the club but because your wrist set is late and how you arms moved you get a little extra run off at the end (pic4)

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, vandyland said:

Edit: after being out there for 45 minutes it is too much, I’ve got (1) trail arm (2) left side bend (3) right hip back (4) then trying to unwind out of that and get into the ball (5) and do that without extending into the ball. It’s a mess. I think the left side bend should also shove the hip back but it is hard to left side bend and keep my trail arm from overbending AND set my wrists. I mean, jesus, how does anyone do all this. When do you stop with your swing and say “this is enough?” 

Wanted to touch on this separate from the rest of the stuff.

somethings will solve themselves by working on other things. Symptoms vs causes. Find the cause and fix the cause and the symptoms go away. The major issue is pressure shift rather than being static. You can’t get a proper turn without pressure shifting. Then the wrist sets help keep arm structure and the turn

in effecient swing Monte starts with teaching the wrist sets and hitting balls from p6 statically then with a little lower body movement. In NTC the first thing he does is show how the wrists set and basically that they have to set early. What is one do the famous Faldo drills? Presetting the wrists. All indications of how important the wrist set is. Another reason for hitting shots from p6 is if you don’t know what impact is supposed to be how can you get there.

For the bolded part you can left side bend standing up or in golf posture and it won’t cause the right hip to go back, same with right side bend it won’t cause the left hip to go back. The upper body turn lets the right hip go back. Porzak golf teaches pressure shift and hip turn come from the upper body turn. Hogan talks about let the shoulders get the hips moving. Monte talks about the hips moving last in the backswing. It’s a reaction to what the upper body is doing. If anything is out of sync moving too early or too late then the rest isn’t going to work right.

Working on pressure shift, early wrist set and getting to p3 in the proper position is where try focus should be and hitting most of the practice shots from p3. If you can’t do it from there you can’t do it in a full swing. Monte says in efficient swing 80% of practice should be from lead arm parallel.  
 

You have to train the body parts to do what they need to do before they will do them on their own. Slower swings, drill work and then mix in regular swings 

10 hours ago, vandyland said:

When do you stop with your swing and say “this is enough?” 

Since you are on wrx I’ll reference getitdaily and his journey. He picks one thing he wants to focus on. One was pressure shift, another was not getting ott. He spends months working on that one specific area and doesn’t worry about the other issues he has. Then once he’s comfortable he moves on to the next. It’s nearly impossible to work on multiple things at the same time 

[vandyland]

@RickyBobby_PR - I've run across getitdaily a few times on wrx, seems like a knowledgeable guy. I was just trying to do it all last night at once which would never work. Like you said, I have to pick up portions of this. I was having some success with my hips with a small move forward to start my swing (it gets me moving). The two stand out issues are trail arm and hip depth (hopefully getting my hip back pushes more left side bend into my swing as a way of "dynamic balance")

I appreciate your eye during this! Otherwise it is just me shouting at clouds. I really want my swing to be fixed overnight but we all know that cannot happen. I was happy with what I was seeing out of the trail arm fix so I will stick with that for now until it feels a bit more "natural". I am playing on Sunday and won't try to force any deep hip depth into my swing (yet). I will try to gradually work it in but I have to admit I am dubious it will show any improvement without exaggerated feels at the moment. Scheduling some time with Monte and I will bounce this stuff off him as well. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 minutes ago, vandyland said:

@RickyBobby_PR - I've run across getitdaily a few times on wrx, seems like a knowledgeable guy. I was just trying to do it all last night at once which would never work. Like you said, I have to pick up portions of this. I was having some success with my hips with a small move forward to start my swing (it gets me moving). The two stand out issues are trail arm and hip depth (hopefully getting my hip back pushes more left side bend into my swing as a way of "dynamic balance")

I appreciate your eye during this! Otherwise it is just me shouting at clouds. I really want my swing to be fixed overnight but we all know that cannot happen. I was happy with what I was seeing out of the trail arm fix so I will stick with that for now until it feels a bit more "natural". I am playing on Sunday and won't try to force any deep hip depth into my swing (yet). I will try to gradually work it in but I have to admit I am dubious it will show any improvement without exaggerated feels at the moment. Scheduling some time with Monte and I will bounce this stuff off him as well. 

Here to help however I can. Can you post a photo from face on at setup?

[vandyland]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Here to help however I can. Can you post a photo from face on at setup?

*laughs nervously* yes, I have that…this is a 7 iron.

Edited November 30, 2023 by vandyland

[RickyBobby_PR]

41 minutes ago, vandyland said:

*laughs nervously* yes, I have that…this is a 7 iron.

From a face on things look pretty solid with grip, ball position and arm structure. Looks like your are about 50/50 with pressure which isn’t bad. As mentioned earlier some prefer a 55/45 or 60/40 lead side. At 50/50 you would need a little movement left to start the pressure shift right,  but that can come from just a little force into the left toes and then the push right.

But nothing stands out that would cause any of the trail arm issues from a setup standpoint, so that has to come from better use of the left shoulder and/or chest not arms starting the swing back

[vandyland]

I went down the rabbit hole of Jim Waldron's "Arm Swing Illusion" last night. I have watched it before on Youtube because so many people on golfwrx reference it but I didn't really (1) understand it at the time (still might not fully) and (2) couldn't figure out how to get back down to the ball from there since I am used to delivering the club from way behind my body.

Last night was interesting (I don't have ball flight so I don't know) but it didn't seem like I was coming way over the top or anything. It does seem to conflict, at least in my mind, with Monte's instruction in NTC. He is teaching to push the club to 7 o'clock in the swing and "set it behind you" which to me seems to be incongruent with the arm swing illusion and the AMG video on "Achieve a PGA Tour Level Backswing by FIXING THIS". Just curious if the NTC comment is forcing me more into my flat swing....

[vandyland]

So probably not a groundbreaking admission but I think Jim Waldron is right. It's amazing how much your turn influences where the hands land, you don't really have to "help them" across the chest. I almost feel like I am pushing my arms straight out and away from me and they still end up over my shoulder. 
 

That is the top of my backswing where I picked the club (what felt like) almost straight up and away from me. It also feels like it would be easier to side bend in this position as well. Driver is going to be weird (I predict some fades/slices in my future). Pitch shots are interesting too because you can’t push it too far away from as you don’t have time to re-route. Here is the full swing with a 7 iron with me rehearsing the feel:

And me hitting a wedge (with less exaggerated feel): 

The iron shots came out surprisingly straight (most of the time) with a few fades mixed in. Not the worst thing. Also, they seem to be launching noticeably higher but also carrying farther with less effort. I would guess my spin has also come up but will have get on Trackman in a few weeks to know for sure. Overall, this is encouraging!

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Another day at the range and some more encouraging feels and results. The arm swing illusion feel is good and gets me in a good position at the top. Definitely losing balls a little right now which isn’t the worst thing:

 

But I am playing tomorrow so we will see how it goes. I expect it will be a bit up and down but I am hoping for a few good swings out there. Driver is going to be fading for sure.

[Jim Shaw]

On 12/1/2023 at 1:00 PM, vandyland said:

So probably not a groundbreaking admission but I think Jim Waldron is right. It's amazing how much your turn influences where the hands land, you don't really have to "help them" across the chest. I almost feel like I am pushing my arms straight out and away from me and they still end up over my shoulder. 
 

That is the top of my backswing where I picked the club (what felt like) almost straight up and away from me. It also feels like it would be easier to side bend in this position as well. Driver is going to be weird (I predict some fades/slices in my future). Pitch shots are interesting too because you can’t push it too far away from as you don’t have time to re-route. Here is the full swing with a 7 iron with me rehearsing the feel:

 

And me hitting a wedge (with less exaggerated feel): 

 

The iron shots came out surprisingly straight (most of the time) with a few fades mixed in. Not the worst thing. Also, they seem to be launching noticeably higher but also carrying farther with less effort. I would guess my spin has also come up but will have get on Trackman in a few weeks to know for sure. Overall, this is encouraging!

 

love the two video's, the 7 iron looks like you are really taking it outside going back but that gives you "space" to swing the club properly, the rythym and tempo look great as does the weight shift, all good, keep working on it, don't forget about the chipping and putting

[cnosil]

9 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

don't forget about the chipping and putting

You can wait until you are the number 1 player in the world before you have to worry about putting. Can be the best in the world with a great T2G game.....Re: Scottie Scheffler.   Finally got himself a putting coach!    

 

@vandyland; swings looking good; admire the dedication you have to keep working on improvement!

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 hours ago, vandyland said:

Another day at the range and some more encouraging feels and results. The arm swing illusion feel is good and gets me in a good position at the top. Definitely losing balls a little right now which isn’t the worst thing:

 

But I am playing tomorrow so we will see how it goes. I expect it will be a bit up and down but I am hoping for a few good swings out there. Driver is going to be fading for sure.

Still very flat in the swing with the hips and shoulders and right hip not really moving back at all. Shallow coming more from dropping but your shaft is steep in the downswing. The butt of the club is pointing well inside the ball line in the downswing rather than outside it (see pic)

results in the same issues of too far inside out and you have to time the release with the arms and hands. The rights are a result of not getting face square or closed at contact