I Did Something Today: Moved To Forward Tees!

[Golf2Much]

Aging, a linty of physical impairments and an antiquated men's league rule for which tees a player can play has prevented me from making the dreaded move from the white tees (6035 yards, 69.5 and 129 for a par 70) to the golf tees (5450 yards, 67.7 and 124).  The men's league has an 85 rule:  your age plus handicap at the gold tees must be 85 or more.   At 67 years old and an 11 handicap from the gold tees, it would be another seven years or a ton of poor rounds for me to get to the golds.   

Hitting driver, fairway wood and an iron even on short par fours finally got to me.  The game started to become more of a chore than fun.  Unless my approach and putting was dead on, there was no way I was going to score.  So, on Thursday, I declared to my playing partners that I was going to break the 85 rule and move up to the gold tees to see what it was like up there.  Is the air thinner?  Is the course noticeably shorter?  Who knew?   There was no way I would know for sure without giving it a try.

After today's experience, I think I like the move forward and will be staying there until our snowbird men's league leader returns!  I did not have my best stuff today (not too much sleep as my wife's returning from Ireland today, etc.) so my actual scoring was not great.  However, after 18 holes, I felt significantly better hitting my second shots playing from the senior gold tees that the normal men's white tees.  On longer par fours, I felt I could get closer to the green on my second.  On shorter par fours, I would stand over the ball knowing I had a chance to get the ball to the green.  I actually hit an iron off the tee on each of the four par threes!  The best part however was that I enjoyed the game much more.  I was still short on several of my par four approach shots, but they were much closer to the pin and should have taken advantage of my good short game (which left me today).  It cost me two strokes to move forward (13 to 11), but it was totally worth it!!

Will I continue to play from the gold tees?  Yes, I will.  Once I experienced the gold tees, they will have to drag me back to the white!  Knowing some of our players, they most likely would enjoy helping me go back!

[Tom the Golf Nut]

Wow never heard of an 85 rule before. If things stood the same for my handicap, I wouldn't be able to move up until I was 85 . At 85 I'm just hoping to be above ground. Due to an injury 5 years ago, I had my spleen removed. At that time, they found I had kidney cancer and removed 1/2 of my right kidney. Recovery was slow and at 60 I lost most of that season and at 61 I moved up to the senior tees just to be able to play. Loss of length, loss of range of motion, no stamina, and being on a mountain course was tough for me. It took a couple of years to be back to myself, but I found I enjoyed it more. The only time I play from the men's normal tees (white) is when I do MGS Challenges or tournaments. I still shoot the same score within a stroke or two, but it is more enjoyable from the senior tees. Having 7 iron or less into greens is more fun than woods and presents more opportunity to score. 

 

[cksurfdude]

Good on you for playing where you're comfortable and .. especially  .. where you feel you can enjoy the game more!!

At my course I play the Whites, aka Senior, which distance-wise is in-between your two sets at about 5850 (Men's Blues are about 6150).

If I get to the point where I'm bombing all my drives leaving me a wedge into the greens and I'm breaking the course record then I'll move back. I still have plenty to learn hitting from where I'm at!

[Hacker60521]

Good for you! I’d rather play tees where I can enjoy the hole vs getting frustrated. That’s why I don’t play the tips. I’ve also played from forward tees with my guests and that’s a lot of fun as well because a lot of the holes offer a different look or strategy 

[GolfSpy_KFT]

I need to play the forward tees at my home course once for the heck of it, just to see how differently the holes play. I played from the blues once and it was cool to have to use different clubs for shots. 

[sirchunksalot]

I've considered doing this just to see if I can score decently well. I've done it once that u can think of, I was playing persimmon woods and blades and needed all the help I could get. 

I'm pretty sure I played the silver tees which are the next set back during the Cobra Anniversary Challenge irons only round. 

I've heard that some pros and college coaches support the idea of playing forward. It builds confidence. 

 

[SteddyGolf]

The USGA actually has been pushing what they call “play it forward”.  The idea is to try to get folks to the right tees. Often times we use age (my club does) but the real factor is how far you hit the ball.  There are a couple different math formulas used to help make tee decisions.  I read an article that said no player should be hitting a club longer than a 6 iron into the green.  This is assuming your tee shot found the fairway or at least close to the fairway.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

I have more than enough distance to play far back tees, but ad 90% of the ppl I play with play up I often will play up with them. It's not a huge difference truthfully. There are a few holes it is, but most are similar. 

It's important to play what's comfortable and makes the game enjoyable. Split tees, moving up or whatever else. 

[SteddyGolf]

3 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I have more than enough distance to play far back tees, but ad 90% of the ppl I play with play up I often will play up with them. It's not a huge difference truthfully. There are a few holes it is, but most are similar. 

It's important to play what's comfortable and makes the game enjoyable. Split tees, moving up or whatever else. 

This is so true. Great point. I have seen courses that included recommendations for tee selection based on handicap.  They put a range of required handicaps next to each tee on the score card and again on the tees that first tee box.  I have also seen at least two courses that required a handicap of less than 10 to play. Both courses had 36 holes so the lower handicap folks played one course while the higher ones played the other.  It was interesting to say the least.  

Edited October 15, 2023 by SteddyGolf

[Rob Person]

good future gaming to you!

more than half the courses local to me, and some I travel to play, have moved to the handicap/drive distance teebox system.  

[Golf2Much]

With my home course being a destination/resort course, I wish we had something like this.  Too often guests playing the course for the first time will look exclusively at the yardage, determine that it's too short and move to the back tees.  The issue is that they don't know what they don't know!  Our fairways are tight, there's water, OB and/or mangroves on every hole and they are playing at sea level.  The last time I played with a guest who had never played the course before and immediately moved to the back tees, he had to quit after 15 holes.  He ran out of the two dozen balls he brought with him!

For fun, I looked up the Capital Hill Judge course to check out how the tee recommendation would work for me.  My index today is 12.5.  I'd be a 14 from the orange tees (which plays 6577 yards, 71.7/131 for a par 72), 12 from the white tees (plays 6120 yards, 69.9/130) and 8 from the gold tees (which they must have added after the marker was built plays 5215 yards, 65.9/116).  I'd be hard pressed to play the suggested orange tees, the white tees would be pushing my distance capability and the gold tees might actually just a little short.  Then again, looking at the course hole by hole pictures, the golds might be just right! 

At least this type of recommendation gives you a starting point to look at the scorecard in more detail, honestly assess your game and choose the tees that gives you the best chance of enjoying your time on the course (and not losing two dozen golf balls).

[Kenny B]

On 10/14/2023 at 11:34 AM, Golf2Much said:

Aging, a linty of physical impairments and an antiquated men's league rule for which tees a player can play has prevented me from making the dreaded move from the white tees (6035 yards, 69.5 and 129 for a par 70) to the golf tees (5450 yards, 67.7 and 124).  The men's league has an 85 rule:  your age plus handicap at the gold tees must be 85 or more.   At 67 years old and an 11 handicap from the gold tees, it would be another seven years or a ton of poor rounds for me to get to the golds.   

Hitting driver, fairway wood and an iron even on short par fours finally got to me.  The game started to become more of a chore than fun.  Unless my approach and putting was dead on, there was no way I was going to score.  So, on Thursday, I declared to my playing partners that I was going to break the 85 rule and move up to the gold tees to see what it was like up there.  Is the air thinner?  Is the course noticeably shorter?  Who knew?   There was no way I would know for sure without giving it a try.

After today's experience, I think I like the move forward and will be staying there until our snowbird men's league leader returns!  I did not have my best stuff today (not too much sleep as my wife's returning from Ireland today, etc.) so my actual scoring was not great.  However, after 18 holes, I felt significantly better hitting my second shots playing from the senior gold tees that the normal men's white tees.  On longer par fours, I felt I could get closer to the green on my second.  On shorter par fours, I would stand over the ball knowing I had a chance to get the ball to the green.  I actually hit an iron off the tee on each of the four par threes!  The best part however was that I enjoyed the game much more.  I was still short on several of my par four approach shots, but they were much closer to the pin and should have taken advantage of my good short game (which left me today).  It cost me two strokes to move forward (13 to 11), but it was totally worth it!!

Will I continue to play from the gold tees?  Yes, I will.  Once I experienced the gold tees, they will have to drag me back to the white!  Knowing some of our players, they most likely would enjoy helping me go back!

You are exactly me on the opposite end of the continental USA!  I moved up to our White (Senior) tee (5418y) from the Blue tee (6068y) 17 months ago on my 75th birthday.  I can still play from the Blue tees, but as you say... it's not much fun.  From the Blue tees there are only two holes where I would approach the green using an iron other than a wedge... both shortish par 3's.  All other holes are FW approaches and a chip/pitch.  On good days I can still shoot my handicap, but I have to make every chip and putt.  

Our Men's League uses the 90 rule, which is age + your handicap from the Blue tees is greater than or equal to 90.  It's why I don't play with them; I've got 6 years to wait or I have to become a worse golfer... and I refuse to do that!

I agree that courses that suggest tees based on handicap don't work for me either.  A lower handicap and being a short hitter just doesn't work.  I would rather see courses recommend tees based on driver distance.  What's interesting is the USGA definitions of bogey and scratch golfers...

Bogey Golfer – A player with a Handicap Index of approximately 20.0 for men and approximately 24.0 for women. Under normal situations, the male bogey golfer can hit his tee shot 200 yards and reach a 370-yard hole in two shots. Likewise, the female bogey golfer can hit her tee shot 150 yards and reach a 280-yard hole in two shots.

Scratch Golfer – An amateur player who plays to 0.0 Handicap Index to the standard of the stroke play qualifiers competing in the United States Amateur Championship/Canadian Amateur. The male scratch golfer hits his tee shots an average of 250 yards and reaches a 470-yard hole in two shots. The female scratch golfer can hit her tee shots an average of 210 yards and reach a 400-yard hole in two shots.

So if I were a bogey golfer, that 370y (or anything over 150y) second shot is a FW for me and a likely chip and putt.  It's a b!tch being a lower handicap short hitter!!  Besides length, there are many factors on a course that affects a players ability to shoot a certain score.  One that continues to confound me is the architect designed our course to seemingly penalize short hitters.  Many of the longer holes have upslopes in the fairways where I would land a ball if I play from the Blue tees, effectively killing my short driving distance even further.  Another 20 yards and that upslope is easily carried, which I do playing from the White (Senior) tees.  

 

[Dweed]

On 10/14/2023 at 2:34 PM, Golf2Much said:

 

Will I continue to play from the gold tees?  Yes, I will.  Once I experienced the gold tees, they will have to drag me back to the white!  Knowing some of our players, they most likely would enjoy helping me go back!

Lots of pro's and cons. I subscribe to the "if it ain't fun...then #@$% it program. I don't play much competitive golf, just not a lot around us really. Next year I'm required to move up one set of tees because of age. I'm looking forward to it. There are enough different angles between the white and gold( senior tees) that there will be a learning curve for sure. @Golf2Much glad you have found some of the fun again my man.

[tdroma98]

Good for you @Golf2Much for moving up.  Ever since I started the Ranger job it's taught me most golfers play the incorrect tees. The young guns are fooled by the yardage. Just because a course plays 6,100 yds from tips, doesn't necessarily mean the course is "easy" because it's "short".  I hear the discussions on the 1st tee by golfers.  Then watch as they struggle hole after hole to get off the tee.  Move up! So the course plays 5,700 yds from white tees (we have Black (tips), Blue, White, Red & Green Tees. Amazing the enjoyment most weekend warriors would have by simply moving up and playing the shorter tees. 
My hats off to you @Golf2Much for sticking to your guns & moving forward! 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

Anyone watch Mr. Short Game on You Tube? He has a few episodes where he plays from the forward tees and the goal is to get to 60. It's entertaining but he has yet to do it. I watched one last night and all he did was get to even par. Seems like Mr. Short Game needed to work on his short game that day. It was just off this round and the driver wasn't helping. But I enjoy his stuff.

Having seen a few episodes and last night while watching with my wife she thought I should give it a try. I decided she was right. Always listen to SWMBO. I want to give it a whirl. What can I do from the forward tees? I have no expectations to get near 60 but what can I do? Anyone else want to join in?    This could be fun.   

[Golf2Much]

7 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Anyone watch Mr. Short Game on You Tube? He has a few episodes where he plays from the forward tees and the goal is to get to 60. It's entertaining but he has yet to do it. I watched one last night and all he did was get to even par. Seems like Mr. Short Game needed to work on his short game that day. It was just off this round and the driver wasn't helping. But I enjoy his stuff.

Having seen a few episodes and last night while watching with my wife she thought I should give it a try. I decided she was right. Always listen to SWMBO. I want to give it a whirl. What can I do from the forward tees? I have no expectations to get near 60 but what can I do? Anyone else want to join in?    This could be fun.   

I'm not sure they have tee boxes far enough up for me to approach 60!   We do have a "super senior" green tees in the middle of the fairways that are rated at 61.4/107 for a par 70.  I'm currently a 12.5 index (my game has not been good over the last month or so) and it would make me a 3 from there.  It might be fun given what I've learned from moving to the senior tees, but I'd have to do it when no one is watching!

[Tom the Golf Nut]

16 minutes ago, Golf2Much said:

I'm not sure they have tee boxes far enough up for me to approach 60!   We do have a "super senior" green tees in the middle of the fairways that are rated at 61.4/107 for a par 70.  I'm currently a 12.5 index (my game has not been good over the last month or so) and it would make me a 3 from there.  It might be fun given what I've learned from moving to the senior tees, but I'd have to do it when no one is watching!

You just tell everyone you lost a bet but refused to wear the skirt! 

[Golf2Much]

1 minute ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

You just tell everyone you lost a bet but refused to wear the skirt! 

GENIUS! 

[cksurfdude]

On 10/16/2023 at 1:49 PM, Kenny B said:

 I would rather see courses recommend tees based on driver distance.  

Totally agree!!

One problem with signs just using handicap-based is most recreational golfers do not carry/maintain a handicap .. so they wouldn't really know what their number is...

And the problems with using driver distance include, of course, guys being guys will still over-estimate their carry distance and, of course, there will always be guys being guys who insist "I paid to see the whole course."

So another suggestion that I've seen elsewhere in this forum, and that makes good sense to me, is to look at the Par 3s -- which distances you're comfortable with (aka capable of) reaching the greens .. then use that set of tees.

[Kenny B]

2 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Totally agree!!

One problem with signs just using handicap-based is most recreational golfers do not carry/maintain a handicap .. so they wouldn't really know what their number is...

And the problems with using driver distance include, of course, guys being guys will still over-estimate their carry distance and, of course, there will always be guys being guys who insist "I paid to see the whole course."

So another suggestion that I've seen elsewhere in this forum, and that makes good sense to me, is to look at the Par 3s -- which distances you're comfortable with (aka capable of) reaching the greens .. then use that set of tees.

One of these days I will likely be in the same situation that my wife is in now... she can only reach 8 greens in regulation playing from the Forward tees and that includes all (5) of the par 3's.  The other 3 holes are short par 4's.  And still she is a 17 hcp!!!  

[EasyPutter]

Then there's this beauty of an idea from the minds of the PGA of America implemented at the home course of the Western NY PGA Headquarters.  Whodathunk of choosing the tee box that fits how far you can hit your driver?

I play forward tees because on this chart I need to hit from 5.  You can play what you want but I'm not impressed if you can't land it in the fairway.

[BKervin]

Which ever tee makes the game enjoyable should be played.  I think if every player knew their distance like @EasyPutter shows it could also help with pace of play.  I don't have a long drive but I've seen so many playing with friends from back tees and not even making their drive to the front tees.  Then the just keep swinging all the way to the green - like 8 swings!  If they played from forward tees they could remove a few strokes and probably have a more enjoyable round.

[Golf2Much]

2 hours ago, EasyPutter said:

 

 

I like this concept better than the handicap system pictured earlier.  It makes more sense using driver distance (or the remaining second shot distance on a par 4) than your handicap.  When you're playing a nominal par 4, you at least want to be in a position where you second shot will be close or on the green.  

[Golf2Much]

As an update on my journey forward, today my last week's lesson and other elements of my game kicked in today.  I shot an 81 (or 13 strokes better than on Tuesday) today.    By moving up about 250 yards (white men's tees to seniors tees) up, I actually parred six of the first seven holes we played.  On the par four 10th hole, from the white tees it would be driver, 5 wood and gap or sand wedge to the green.  Today, with a little wind advantage I hit driver and 7 wood to two feet from the pin.  It's the first time I've been on that hole in regulation.....let's say for a long time!  The best part was walking up to second shots to a par four and not feeling overwhelmed and having to rely on a great pitch shot to possibly get a par.  So far, the experiment is working out and the guys I play with couldn't be more supportive.   Well, at least until my team won the pot this morning!