rule of 12, yay or nay?

[ryan.mzzz]

i’m curious if we have any members who are all in on the “rule of 12” as articulated here:

https://www.coastalbreezenews.com/columnists/let_s_talk_golf/the-rule-of-12/article_2e65fbac-ab20-11ec-b1e4-dbefc3adccd3.html

 

my question for someone who uses this short game strategy would be are there specific situations, such as if the ball is in a bunker(edit: if there is a bunker between your ball and your target) or if water is in between your ball and your target, where you feel it’s not appropriate to do “rule of 12”, and also when should you absolutely be using that strategy. i am currently most comfortable with my 58 degree and hybrid around the greens, but i’m thinking of branching out into other clubs when other options may be appropriate.

Thanks for any discussion. 

Edited March 15 by ryan.mzzz
language mistake

[RoverRick]

I’m a long time user of the rule of 12. I’ve averaged 27 putts per round for the 10 months (the amount of time I’ve been tracking it, not the amount of time I’ve been using this.) I rarely 3 putt, so that means I have 9 1-Putts per round. How? I chip it close. 

While the rule of 12 does actually work, I modify it a little based on the fact that I ride in a cart verses walking. So I don’t have all my clubs with me. I may just have the 54° 9 & 8 iron and putter. I park to where I have to walk past the flag to the ball. I pace it off going to the ball and decide what’s best. While the Rule of 12 says get it on the green as soon as possible, if you know a 9 iron is 3:1 and an 8 iron is 4:1, 54° is 2:1. Just pick your spot and use that club. Usually, I’m not so far from the flag that I need longer chipping clubs, but it also works.

Say I am only 5 paces off the green and 30 paces from the flag. 6:1 the rule of 12 says 6 iron. If all I have is a 9 iron, I pick my landing spot 10 paces from the ball.  

I played Trinity Forest on Tuesday. I had many opportunities to chip with longer clubs. However, I also subscribe to “Putt when you can, chip when you can, and pitch when you have to.” Trinity Forest has perfect grass like many courses fringe from tee box to green. And it probably runs about 10-12 on the stimp. The greens are even faster and smoother, but lots of undulations. I didn’t chip 1 time Tuesday but I did have some 30-40 yard putts. The other guys were chipping and if they hit the slope wrong it ran 20 yards past the flag or in some other direction. 

Your specific question was are there situations where you can’t use it. Absolutely. But we are back what to your order of choices should be, Putt, Chip (Rule of 12) then Pitch. At my home course, typically unless you are very close to the green, you can only chip from one side.

The smaller the swing, the smaller the error. While we all want to put the ball in the hole every time, the true secret to lowering the handicap is minimizing the errors. A bladed 30 yard pitch typically goes twice as far as desired and you, or I , often have the same shot coming the other way. A chip, even bladed still ends up on the green, just not near the hole. And a bad putt is better than a bad chip, bad chip better than bad pitch. 
 

The Importance of The Rule Of 12  is that you have a tried and true strategy. A chip with a 9 iron has 1 part fly to 2 parts roll (3:1), etc. This should give you confidence that “all I need to do is land the ball here, and it will roll to there.” Aim left or right or add or subtract a club for slope. This will reduce the stress because all you have to focus on is chipping the ball to a spot and physics will take care of the rest. And if you can putt out of a bunker, by all means putt. It may make you look brilliant. 

Edited March 15 by RoverRick

[ryan.mzzz]

3 hours ago, RoverRick said:

The smaller the swing, the smaller the error. While we all want to put the ball in the hole every time, the true secret to lowering the handicap is minimizing the errors.

thanks for breaking down your thought process and strategy. I’ve been plateaued for a while now where most of my scorecard is pretty even between par and bogey with 3 or 4 blowup holes a round, which are usually the result of a bad mistake in the short game. so, i’m gonna give this a shot. i’m excellent at pitching with my 58°, but my chipping could definitely be better. to break my plateau I need to minimize mistakes around the green, and hit more greens with my 9 and wedges, and I can see this strategy helping me towards that. thanks again.

[RoverRick]

1 hour ago, ryan.mzzz said:

thanks for breaking down your thought process and strategy. I’ve been plateaued for a while now where most of my scorecard is pretty even between par and bogey with 3 or 4 blowup holes a round, which are usually the result of a bad mistake in the short game. so, i’m gonna give this a shot. i’m excellent at pitching with my 58°, but my chipping could definitely be better. to break my plateau I need to minimize mistakes around the green, and hit more greens with my 9 and wedges, and I can see this strategy helping me towards that. thanks again.

You say excellent pitching with the 58°, but define excellent. Is that hitting it in one-putt range? So you get the exact yardage to the flag? Do you just look at it and think, that’s 50 yards? The difference in being 47 and 53 is a 15’ putt. Granted few of us can routinely control our distance that well. But we can improve. 

The Dave Pelz Clock System works great. I see you have 4 wedges. Instead of using the clock, use your trail side: mid shin, knee, mid thigh, pocket,  waist, ribs, shoulder, ear. That’s 8 different back swing lengths. Accelerate the same with all of them. Write it down on a score card or something. Practice this with one club. Then add another club. You can do this with all your wedges. Actually all your clubs. I know a waist high 6 iron is 126 yards. A 4 is 154. A 3 wood is about 175. Although with these longer clubs they are more bump and runs. 

But simply doing this with your 4 wedges you will have 32 different known distances. There will be some over lap. Maybe you just do knee, waist, shoulder, ribs. Perhaps you do those 3 and vary your stance or set up. Choking down on the club reduces it a couple of yards as does opening your stance, as does playing it more forward. Blah. Blah. Blah. 

The important thing is you have a system that you practice. You have it written down. At least initially. Let’s say you are 47 yards from the flag and your card says a knee high 50° goes 46y as a waist high 58° goes 48y. You now have 2 known options and can pick one after assessing the variables and have confidence in you choice. 

This can affect your course management also. Our 3rd hole is a par 5 that dog legs right. In 30 years I have 10 eagles and hundreds of doubles or worse. In addition to OB the entire way, there are 2 sand bunkers, 2 grass bunkers, 3 large moguls, and the green is long and skinny set at an angle. Yet, I still consider it a birdie hole. I make far more birdies here by hitting the wedge close from a perfect lie in the fairway than a flop shot out of the grass bunker. So I want to lay up to where I have a 50-60 pitch right down the throat of the green. I hit my 5 iron fairly well, so I just have to hit my tee shot 200 yards into the fairway. 

This takes discipline because everyone else wants to pound the driver. Most hit it OB, or into the 16 fairway behind a row of trees, or though the fairway, and then have a 200 yard shot to this green. I can just hit an easy hybrid, then 5 iron, and focus on my chip, either make the putt for birdie or walk off with an easy par. I may not win the hole, but I didn’t damage my score.  

[berkeleybob]

@ryan.mzzz Thanks for asking the question, and @RoverRick thanks for answering it. This is a tremendous help to me in clarifying thoughts around the green.

I have a general confidence with my wedges, in that I know my yardages with 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 swings. And while I have bladed them around the green, it hasn’t been often enough for me to be afraid of them, especially since switching to CB wedges.

Since using an indoor range, when playing a round Trackman always defaults to 58° whenever I’m within 80 yards of the hole. Regardless of lie or relation to the green or hole, it’s 58°.  At first, I thought it was just defaulting, and I’d switch to a 7, 8 or 9-iron for a chip. But after a while I started trying my 58° in those situations. After reading this, I can see now it really is just a default. My 58° makes sense in about half the situations, but really, I’d be better off chipping in the other half.

I want to work on the rule of 12 (and Dave Pelz clock system). I don’t really have a set process for determining which shot and which club to use. If I’m being honest, I just say to myself, “First, get on the green safely, then worry about two-putting.”

Edited March 15 by berkeleybob

[Bobbers]

Ken Venturi was also very adamant on this subject.  His take on things, if I recall correctly, was to use a 7 iron and remember that every 12 inches of backswing correlated to ten yards of travel.  So if you're ten yards off the green you'd use a stroke with a one foot backstroke.  Twenty yards would be two feet, and thirty yards would  be three feet.  That of course is when  you have a clear shot at the green.

Given how club lofts have changed I use the same idea but substitute the 8 iron for the 7 iron. 

 

[RoverRick]

On my 45th birthday, as a 36 handicapper, not even a real handicap because I didn’t adhere to all the rules, I decided that I was going to become a scratch golfer by my 50th birthday. I didn’t quite make it and my index was 0.2 on my birthday. But I did have the chart listing distances with partial wedges. I hadn’t discovered the Rule of 12 and hadn’t yet heard of Raymond Floyd describing the chipping stroke as “putting with loft.” 

I no longer have the chart, since this was almost 15 years ago, but just having it was reassuring. I listed 8 different backswing lengths in the above post, but at the time I just had 4 swings with 4 clubs. 48°, 52°, 56° and 60°. More modern stronger lofts made that obsolete, and last year I replaced the final hold out loft of 60° with a 58°. I don’t mean the actual wedge but a wedge loft. I found that a 58° was easy open up and even close a little bit. I went to “trail side backswing gauge” verses clock system and added the other positions to 8 swings with one club. The 58° wedge gets a lot more use. But I still have the basic for all the other clubs are still there. 

I think the genesis for this change was I bought a TM High Toe 58° and fell in love with it. I didn’t love the bounce on it and in some situations that has caused me issues. But it is worn out now, and I just bought a new Mizuno ES21 58-12W wedge. It’s an older model, but new in the plastic. This is probably the best wedge no one has seen. They are available for less than $100 new. 

My long game has been suffering for a few years, but my short game has remained good. There are a number of methods out there, but the PCP method is the best. PCP is “Putt when you can, Chip when you can’t, Pitch when you must.” 

[scbelowpar]

This was a very interesting article to read as well as all the comments.  While I had never heard of the rule of 12, I was taught at a young age to always chip instead of pitch when possible.  By chipping you eliminate more variables such bad bounces, the ball stopping quickly, how high to hit the ball, etc.  I was also taught to imagine a 7 foot circle around the cup and try to get the ball into the circle.   It's a lot easier to get a ball into a 14 foot diameter circle than next to a tiny cup.   

In my opinion, a great way to put the chip vs pitch into perspective is to think about this.  If I gave you two golf balls and told you to toss one up high in the air and the other one roll it like a bowling ball, which one do you think would end up closer to the hole?  Probably more times than not, the one you rolled.

[RoverRick]

I played today and recited the mantra, “Putt when you can, Chip when you can’t, Pitch when you must.”

There was one time I putted and may have been better off chipping, and 1 chip that might have been better putting, but since I made the following putts, it didn’t cost me anything. 

I shot a 74 and didn’t really make any mistakes. Cold, raining, windy, actually slippery at times. I almost fell twice and the club nearly slipped out in the rain, I didn’t hit everything perfectly, but that was a solid round. 

[ryan.mzzz]

@RoverRick 

Thanks for so much good information, so well communicated. What a great couple of posts. I definitely have a lot of work to do.

>You say excellent pitching with the 58°, but define excellent. Is that hitting it in one-putt range?

Not usually. From 50 yards and in I’m usually in comfortable two putt territory, 10-25 feet. However, I’m confident with it and usually don’t make bad mistakes. Besides driving, it’s the part of my game I’ve gotten the most compliments on. Maybe ‘excellent’ was the wrong word, but it’s definitely one of the best parts of my game.

>Instead of using the clock, use your trail side: mid shin, knee, mid thigh, pocket,  waist, ribs, shoulder, ear. That’s 8 different back swing lengths. Accelerate the same with all of them. Write it down on a score card or something. Practice this with one club. Then add another club. You can do this with all your wedges. Actually all your clubs.

Wow. I’m not sure I have the awareness for all 8 zones. At this point I have 2 yardages per club, my comfortable shot and a punch shot. However, if I want to get serious, I can see that this would get me to single digits at least.

>The important thing is you have a system that you practice. You have it written down.

Definitely. I couldn’t keep it straight otherwise.

>This takes discipline because everyone else wants to pound the driver.

That’s me, and it’s my best club. I’ve have 2 distances I can hit consistently without much stress, and I can hit it straight or fade it without much issue. Dogleg lefts give me problems.
 
>PCP is “Putt when you can, Chip when you can’t, Pitch when you must.”

I’ve known this, but I haven’t been doing it. I need to start. Especially since my DF is such a good 'Texas wedge' type club.

Edited March 18 by ryan.mzzz

[Rob Person]

First off, thank you all for this information.  I've always been a player of guesstimates.  I understood the distance and the type of lie, but only had 2 thoughts. ( when 25 yards and in around the green) but try to keep my thought process to a minimum. 

1. High lofted shot  2. Chip for a bump n run. 

The 2 clubs were always a 60⁰ or 9i.

I've only ever wrote down middle to max distances on a range. (1/2 swing and full swing)  I am going to start making notes for the very short game now. It's difficult for me to want to apply over thinking to a particular type of shot.

 

[RoverRick]

So yesterday, 1v1v1  We were playing skins and low net. I had 8 skins, but was giving one guy 4 skins strokes and the other 11. After 17 holes, they were ties and I was 2 back with strokes. 

On 18, I needed a birdie, and my 2 competitors needed to both bogey for a tie, or  both double for me to win. I asked the score keeper to make sure. Because If I would have been in the lead, I would not have gone for the green with that pin position. It’s muddy and into a 20mph wind to an island green from 150. I took dead aim and missed it 33.5 yards left. One guy laid up, but the highest handicap hit the green but was 45’ away. I had a chance to tie if I made it and he 3-putted.

I knew that a 54° middle of my shin high would fly 30 yards. There was a slope and 30 yards of carry would catch the slope and feed down to the hole. So I aimed 4’ left and made a confident swing. I had just told them I didn’t even need my putter because it was going in. (The reality was it didn’t matter if it went in the water. The putter was useless because unless I birdied, one of those guys was going to win $10 from each of us.) 

I hit the perfect pitch, it fed to the hole and dropped in on its almost dying roll.  And so ends the Cinderella story. The high handicapper 2 putted from 45 feet and won $10 from each which really meant he just owed me $2 from the skins bet. 

The moral of the story is that it was not just a guess on my part. I shot the yardage, knew how far the ball would fly. Played it with my hit and roll pitch swing. (I didn’t cover this but I vary my AOA to impart different amounts of spin.) And read it like a putt from there. 

Out of 18 holes yesterday, I had 14 opportunities to PCP. 1 was perfect. 10 were excellent, and the other 3 were 2nd chances after a bad first attempt. 
 
So I got up and down, 71% of the time yesterday. But it wasn’t ALL guess work and ALL feel. While those 2 things play a vital role, it’s based off of rules and practice. Short game is not as sexy to practice as driver. But ask any competitor if he remembers any of your drives. I was paid the ultimate compliment on hole 12 when Dave said, “I’m getting damned tired of you getting up and down and winning holes.” As he slammed the pin in the hole after I retrieved my ball. 
 

Unfortunately, this was just the short game yesterday. It does not take into account the trees hit, fatted shots in the mud, or a sundry of other misses yesterday. I was still 11 over par. 

Edited March 18 by RoverRick

[ryan.mzzz]

so i’m 6’0”, with 24 full pace’s between the club(where i was standing while hitting) and the hole. did some 9 iron chipping practice today. took a photo of my last group, but that was the first group i hit from that spot. all of those balls are within the good to great radius i would have chipping the same spot with my 58. so, something of a revelation, though still lot of work to do obviously. @RoverRick seems to be on to something here. 

Edited March 21 by ryan.mzzz
clarity

[berkeleybob]

@RoverRick That’s a great story. I’m taking notes.

[RoverRick]

On 3/21/2024 at 2:39 PM, ryan.mzzz said:

so i’m 6’0”, with 24 full pace’s between the club(where i was standing while hitting) and the hole. did some 9 iron chipping practice today. took a photo of my last group, but that was the first group i hit from that spot. all of those balls are within the good to great radius i would have chipping the same spot with my 58. so, something of a revelation, though still lot of work to do obviously. @RoverRick seems to be on to something here. 

The beauty part about this is that it’s a ratio. While a 5’5” and a 6’6” golfer may have different length of pace, it makes no difference. 24 total and 8 to the green is the same club as 30 total and 10 to the green, still a 9 iron. Also, even if your irons are hotter or more weaker, it’s still a repeatable method that will save you strokes. 

I played Thursday, 9 holes before the rain, the driver was not good, but I had 2 great iron shots that gave me tap in birdies, 2 great pitches that gave me birdies, 2 bad chips that netted bogies, 3 good pitches that left me pars. 34  on a day with a balky driver. I wish the rain would have held off. 

Ironically, before each of the putt/chips/pitches, I said, “Putt when you can, Chip when you can’t, pitch when you have to.” The first hole was uphill upper tier and chipped, and it checked up leaving me a 20’er. Wrong choice, I should have pitched to it. 4th hole downhill, didn’t check and ran off the green, I should have putted. In both instances I knew I should play it differently, but had stuck with the shot I had envisioned before I even got to the ball  

I also birdied the 2 par 5’s with a 1/2 50° wedge (waist high) 70y and a 3/4 50° (ear high) 95 yards. Then made a couple of 10’ers. 

On the holes that I bogeyed, perhaps I should have been thinking about which could end up worse, not which would be the best. 

[berkeleybob]

On 3/15/2024 at 2:50 PM, RoverRick said:

“Putt when you can, Chip when you can’t, Pitch when you must.”

I used this mantra around the green yesterday, and I holed out twice with an 8-iron chip. I know that’s not the norm, obviously, but it’s a very helpful checklist to use. Thanks for that.

[cksurfdude]

Also a fan of OG short game methods, eg bump & run, hybrid putts and yeah the chipping Rule of 12...

.. originally from Paul Runyan, as I understand it, and fyi here's a printable chart I found on the web that lays it pretty clearly...

https://oldduffergolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Paul-Runyan-Rule-of-12.pdf

Note though that back in Paul's playing days lofts, as we know, were generally much weaker - so those with modern GI, etc irons may need less club vs what he used back then.

So for my chipping I use a slightly different three main club setup - generally 54° (aka SW) / PW (43°) / 8i (??°) - but I'm looking at the same ratios, ie 2:1 / 3:1 / 4:1.

Fyi for me and for my greenside chipping .. in many situations where I often end up playing at my home course .. I may sub in the GW (48°) vs the PW if I think I need just a bit more carry and spin, depending on the green in front of me.

But generally I like the every other club 3-club setup.

Of course YMMV so find a place to practice .. with whatever clubs and measuring system you prefer .. and build up those short game feels!!

 

[ryan.mzzz]

On 3/18/2024 at 10:30 AM, RoverRick said:

I took dead aim

so that video explains one of the main parts of decade condensed into a few minutes. it’s the part of decade that helps you pick targets. i’ve been doing this for a while now, and it definitely works. the downside is that you are often left with a lengthy chip or pitch. so, if I can start nailing rule of 12 combined with decade aiming and putting, that’s a recipe for success. 

side note: while attempting to get good at the varying swing lengths(currently comfortable with 7, i can do 4 in the bottom but so far only 3 above the hip) i’ve also been working on generating power with my feet. so, i bring the shaft to knee level and just let it drop to chip, and then alternately i bring the shaft back to knee level, then i pivot and use my core to pull the club through and strike the ball as hard as I can. That move has generated some of the best ball striking i’ve ever done, and though i’m not quite to my normal yardage numbers, i’m close, and this is with a half swing. unfortunately this makes it ideal if you have shoes that fit well, which is always a struggle for me, but other than that i’m definitely in “game improvement” mode right now, and it feels great.

[ryan.mzzz]

8 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Also a fan of OG short game methods, eg bump & run, hybrid putts and yeah the chipping Rule of 12...

.. originally from Paul Runyan, as I understand it, and fyi here's a printable chart I found on the web that lays it pretty clearly...

https://oldduffergolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Paul-Runyan-Rule-of-12.pdf

Note though that back in Paul's playing days lofts, as we know, were generally much weaker - so those with modern GI, etc irons may need less club vs what he used back then.

So for my chipping I use a slightly different three main club setup - generally 54° (aka SW) / PW (43°) / 8i (??°) - but I'm looking at the same ratios, ie 2:1 / 3:1 / 4:1.

Fyi for me and for my greenside chipping .. in many situations where I often end up playing at my home course .. I may sub in the GW (48°) vs the PW if I think I need just a bit more carry and spin, depending on the green in front of me.

But generally I like the every other club 3-club setup.

Of course YMMV so find a place to practice .. with whatever clubs and measuring system you prefer .. and build up those short game feels!!

 

nice find.