More runout, a fade or a draw

[Jeffers]

All things being equal, amount of spin, distance off center, etc. For a righty does a draw versus a fade roll farther? Does a fade have backwards spin versus a draw having forward spin or do they both have forward spin? My best drives have a slight fade and I rarely hit a draw.

[Shapotomous]

My draws seem to run out more than my fade.  

[cnosil]

8 minutes ago, Jeffers said:

All things being equal, amount of spin, distance off center, etc. For a righty does a draw versus a fade roll farther? Does a fade have backwards spin versus a draw having forward spin or do they both have forward spin? My best drives have a slight fade and I rarely hit a draw.

With all things equal the rollout will be equal.    Balls hit don’t have forward spin until they have interaction with the ground.  

generalizing a draw will have a little less spin than a fade so it will roll out farther.    all things are not equal when you hit shots.  You need to factor in spin, descent angle, path, etc.    

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, Jeffers said:

All things being equal, amount of spin, distance off center, etc. For a righty does a draw versus a fade roll farther? Does a fade have backwards spin versus a draw having forward spin or do they both have forward spin? My best drives have a slight fade and I rarely hit a draw.

All balls have backspin and some amount of side spin at launch. The angle of descent plays a role in what the ball does once it hits the ground as does ground conditions. 
 

A fade is more controllable because the amount of roll out will generally be less and therefore more controllable results. 
 

[Dweed]

I can't dispute anything that has been said above. Only thing I can add is that I personally get the most runout whenever I hit the cart path or on the rare occasion when I'm playing along side a highway.

[scbelowpar]

Supposedly a draw has more of a top spin to it where as a slice has more of a side spin or backspin.  So a draw will roll out farther.  

 

Dweed, your post reminds me of Tin Cup and Don Johnson hitting the ball down the road.  Still going.   

[GolfSpy_BNG]

31 minutes ago, scbelowpar said:

Supposedly a draw has more of a top spin to it where as a slice has more of a side spin or backspin.  So a draw will roll out farther.  

 

Dweed, your post reminds me of Tin Cup and Don Johnson hitting the ball down the road.  Still going.   

Any ball with top spin will dive into the ground without flying very far. All balls not miss hit will have back spin and more than likely some degree of side spin. 

[Jeffers]

Interesting comments, I ask this because my frequent golf partner who hits a draw where I hit a fade tells me that a draw has forward spin when it hits the ground where the fade has a backwards spin. It makes sense that both have back spin in the air. 

[DanieldR]

From what I've been able to understand:

All golf shots (maybe with the exception of putts) have backspin, with more backspin resulting in less roll-out. Draws and fades are generated through sidespin. "All other things equal" therefore results in the same roll-out for a draw and a fade. In reality however, fades often have less roll-out due to the fact that fade spin is often accompanied by (more) backspin, which is in turn due to fade swings often having a more descending blow compared to draw swings. But this doesn't have to be the case, a drive with a 2 yard fade that was hit upward will have more roll-out than a drive with a 2 yard draw hit downward (all other things equal )

[RickyBobby_PR]

24 minutes ago, DanieldR said:

From what I've been able to understand:

All golf shots (maybe with the exception of putts) have backspin, with more backspin resulting in less roll-out. Draws and fades are generated through sidespin. "All other things equal" therefore results in the same roll-out for a draw and a fade. In reality however, fades often have less roll-out due to the fact that fade spin is often accompanied by (more) backspin, which is in turn due to fade swings often having a more descending blow compared to draw swings. But this doesn't have to be the case, a drive with a 2 yard fade that was hit upward will have more roll-out than a drive with a 2 yard draw hit downward (all other things equal )

Roll out on fades and draws are not always equal. It’s why fades are preferred off driver by the pros. They are more predicable in their end result. A draw can easily run out a lot more than expected due to spin.

Balls can only spin a single axis. Side spin and backspin are just spin. 
 

What if I told you my fades and draws have very similar spin numbers? There are no absolutes in golf.  What if I told you this people hit a draw and a fade with and ascending blow on driver and they both shots can be hit with an inside to out swing?

 

[pete1276]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy_BNG said:

Any ball with top spin will dive into the ground without flying very far. All balls not miss hit will have back spin and more than likely some degree of side spin. 

Correct, top spin is not a normal golf shot.  A draw simply spins less than a fade typically. I know it's a common phase, but there's technically no such thing as side spin. There's only one way a ball can spin at one time. The axis tilt is what causes it to move left or right. The amount of tilt creates more movement one way or the other. 

[fixyurdivot]

All things being equal, launch metrics and manner in which the ball interacts with the ground, the rollout should be really close.  That said, my observation is that draws tend to roll out more than fades.  I say "observation" because I can't hit a draw off the tee with driver... period .

[DanieldR]

On 4/18/2024 at 9:51 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Roll out on fades and draws are not always equal. It’s why fades are preferred off driver by the pros. They are more predicable in their end result. A draw can easily run out a lot more than expected due to spin.

Balls can only spin a single axis. Side spin and backspin are just spin. 
 

What if I told you my fades and draws have very similar spin numbers? There are no absolutes in golf.  What if I told you this people hit a draw and a fade with and ascending blow on driver and they both shots can be hit with an inside to out swing?

 

Those draws often, but not always, roll out more because they often have less total spin as the extent of backspin (or the absolute vertical component of total spin if you want to nitpick) is smaller. This is because the strike for a draw is generally, but again not always, less descending or more ascending than for a comparable fade (swing). https://mygolfspy.com/labs/mygolfspy-labs-draws-vs-fades/

This doesnt mean that for any individual it can't be the case that a fade rolls out the same amount or even more (which is why I keep using words as often and not always). My fades and draws have similar roll-outs as, for me, their (back)spin numbers are similar. But this is not what happens most often.

Hitting a fade with an in-to-out swing (when looking at the target line at least) is physically impossible. A (push) slice on the other hand...

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, DanieldR said:

Those draws often, but not always, roll out more because they often have less total spin as the extent of backspin (or the absolute vertical component of total spin if you want to nitpick) is smaller. This is because the strike for a draw is generally, but again not always, less descending or more ascending than for a comparable fade (swing). https://mygolfspy.com/labs/mygolfspy-labs-draws-vs-fades/

This doesnt mean that for any individual it can't be the case that a fade rolls out the same amount or even more (which is why I keep using words as often and not always). My fades and draws have similar roll-outs as, for me, their (back)spin numbers are similar. But this is not what happens most often.

Hitting a fade with an in-to-out swing (when looking at the target line at least) is physically impossible. A (push) slice on the other hand...

A top level instructor disagrees with you and a draw and fade both can be hit with ascending  aka positive aoa with driver.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1425496-is-a-15-°-out-to-in-swing-path-acceptable/?do=findComment&comment=18960124

[DanieldR]

22 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

A top level instructor disagrees with you and a draw and fade both can be hit with ascending  aka positive aoa with driver.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1425496-is-a-15-°-out-to-in-swing-path-acceptable/?do=findComment&comment=18960124

You are not reading my posts, nor the one you are referencing, that well .

1. I never said anything about a draw or a fade HAVING to be hit with either a ascending or descending blow. I use terms like often and generally A LOT, because I am talking about what happens most often, not about "rules" in this case. I also used terms like LESS descending and even mention "or more ascending". I even, in my post before that, literally say that a fade can be hit with an upward angle of attack.

2. The post you are referencing talks to in-to-out vs out-to-in, not about angle of attack, which are very very different things.

3. The post you are referencing doesn't talk about a reference point: body or target line. A fade (which starts left of TARGET and ends on it) with an inside out swing compared to your body line is possible (if you just aim left with your body, which is actually what I do myself). A fade with an inside out swing compared to the target like is physically impossible, unless you have found a way around laws of physics 

Edited April 21 by DanieldR