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CLONES! - Callaway RAZR Hawk Driver Clone


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I am relatively new to golf and didn't even know "cloned" clubs were available and legal to sell. Perhaps the law is different here in the UK.

We always hear about the fakes on ebay etc, but never the availability of cloned clubs.

Is there anyone here from the UK that has experienced these products at all... would be nice to get something that performs as the top rated club but without the added expense of paying for tour players and advertising!

 

The European laws on copyright may prevent them being sold here i guess.

r2wtrials website

Also web master for Trial Magazine

 

Driver:- Titleist 910

3 Wood:- Mizuno 820

rescues:- Cleveland & Md Golf

Irons:- Cobra S3 pro 6 & 7, Cleveland CG7 4,5,8,9,p (graphite shaft)

Wedges:- Taylormade ATV 52, 56.

Putter:- LA Jolla

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Fakes/counterfeits are illegal, clones aren't.

 

Fakes copy 100% of the original club and fool the consumer into thinking they are buying the real deal.

 

Clones are supposed to come out of the same foundry, using same materials, molds, tooling as the original ones, but they have their own branding (model, color, etc) so they are making you think you are buying the real deal.

 

I know that Diamond Tour had a partner in the UK selling clones, but it didn't work out I guess.

 

However, I have bought like 6 sets of clubs from Diamond Tour and have them shipped to Germany and I didn't have any customs problems. Just had to pay the shipping and some taxes.

 

UKcustomgolf carries such clones (not sure if they are any good though).

:cobra-small: SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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Is clone the new word for knock-off???

 

I bought a 'knock-off' G10 head one year in China for really cheap and shafted it myself just to see what it would perform like. Definitely sounded terrible and hit the ball 10 yards shorter, but for a terrible golfer with zero interest in spending big bucks, 'Clones' seems like a reasonable way to go.

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Is clone the new word for knock-off???

 

I bought a 'knock-off' G10 head one year in China for really cheap and shafted it myself just to see what it would perform like. Definitely sounded terrible and hit the ball 10 yards shorter, but for a terrible golfer with zero interest in spending big bucks, 'Clones' seems like a reasonable way to go.

 

Well.. nowadays... even the OEM's manufacture in China, so it's not a decisive factor. Although I read somewhere that many companies went back to their foundries in Taiwan due to quality issues in China?

 

Anyways, for a beginner I honestly believe I can't tell the difference. I'm the only one playing clones in my friend's circle so I get to borrow their real clubs and test them head to head: it sounds the same, goes the same distance.

 

That's why I would love to see MGS review such clubs (like they did with Dynacraft). I want to see if scratch golfers or good players can actually tell the difference. Most good players I know refuse to test clones... they are so brand loyal. But I know that's not the case with the folks at MGS, so I can trust the unbiased reviews.

:cobra-small: SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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Is clone the new word for knock-off???

 

I bought a 'knock-off' G10 head one year in China for really cheap and shafted it myself just to see what it would perform like. Definitely sounded terrible and hit the ball 10 yards shorter, but for a terrible golfer with zero interest in spending big bucks, 'Clones' seems like a reasonable way to go.

 

It has nothing to do with skill level.

 

According to Golf Magazine, it's very easy to steal technology. It also doesn't help that some of the OEMs rely on the foundry to do their R&D... though no one ever mentions who, making it tough to really prove. Adding 2 with 2 and getting 5, it seems to me that Callaway, Taylormade and Ping are the ones... For instance, I've never seen an Adams Speedline/Fast-series clone, or a Wilson/Staff Smooth clone, or Mizuno clones in legitimate channels. I have seen the rare Nike Sasquatch clones and some Titleist, but they were on Ebay, so it was one of those " :huh: " deals.

 

You have to ask yourself: why is a place like Diamond Tour Golf or GigaGolf still open, if they're supposedly violating the law? Either the OEMs being cloned have no control of their property, or there's some type of deal involved. If it was stolen and cloned, that'd be illegal, but since no one's going to jail, that's a wash. But if it was illegal some other way, wouldn't you think someone as big as Taylormade- who, along with the other OEMs, are pumping billions into efforts to stop counterfeiting- take umbrage with this? Their only "defense" (I don't even know if you can call it that) is to try to demonize any type of off-brand. Of course, they're all busy demonizing the USGA and each other as well, so it's hard to really get to the meat of what's going on.

 

Sounds like I might have another project on my hands...

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Sounds like I might have another project on my hands...

 

I'm curious about it! :D

 

I am not sure how it works in the golf industry, but for example in the IT industry where I work at it goes like this:

 

Our factory in Taiwan does the R&D, the customer (the OEM) will pay for the tooling and molds of the product (a PC or a mobile phone)

Only the customer who paid for the tooling and molds has the right to purchase his model, if I sell the exact same model to another customer then I'm violating the contract/law/whatever.

 

So one way to circumvent this limitation is modifying the model slightly... either by adding some contour, changing the colors, etc...

 

This will obviously reduce the cost of creating a new model from scratch... let's say the customer paid $100.000 for his tooling, I could use $80.000 of it and then pay $20.000 myself to add my color, logo or stamping.

 

Do they steal the R&D and technology as well? Hard to say... Diamond Tour had the Rapture V2 clones (which was my first set... the clones, not the real deal) and I noticed the Rapture had this separate metal sole... not sure if it was titanium or whatever. Anyways, it's supposed to create higher launch by bringing the weight close to the sole, etc.

 

On the clone, you don't see that metal part... it's one single piece just like any other iron.

 

2 answers come to my mind:

 

1. Either there is no technology to steal from

or

2. They couldn't copy the key aspects of the original, making this clone... not very good

 

Does it make a difference? Not for me. Perhaps for a good player it will.

That's the reason why I'm so anxious about having MGS test further clones (DTG, Gigagolf, Pinemeadow, Hireko) just to know if they perform similarly or is it just a big hoax and they don't come close to the real deal performance-wise.

:cobra-small: SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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On the clone, you don't see that metal part... it's one single piece just like any other iron.

 

2 answers come to my mind:

 

1. Either there is no technology to steal from

or

2. They couldn't copy the key aspects of the original, making this clone... not very good

 

Does it make a difference? Not for me. Perhaps for a good player it will.

That's the reason why I'm so anxious about having MGS test further clones (DTG, Gigagolf, Pinemeadow, Hireko) just to know if they perform similarly or is it just a big hoax and they don't come close to the real deal performance-wise.

 

What you see in the "real" club is just visible technology. Some companies emphasize what they're trying to promote by changing a color, or adding a special badge, or colored flecks in the new "technology". Like those Rapture's- that's tungsten in the sole, and it's designed to lower the CG. How much is truly there has never been stated, as far as I can remember. They'll tell you the percentage of how much the CG is lowered, though. Same goes for Taylormade's "inverted cone technology"... it's smaller than the badge would have you believe.

 

"Hyperbolic" has two possible meanings, since the word can be used with either:

 

1. based off the word "Hyperbola": –noun Geometry .

the set of points in a plane whose distances to two fixed points in the plane have a constant difference; a curve consisting of two distinct and similar branches, formed by the intersection of a plane with a right circular cone when the plane makes a greater angle with the base than does the generator of the cone. Equation: x 2 /a 2 − y 2 /b 2 = ±1.

 

2. based of the word "Hyperbole": –noun Rhetoric .

1.

obvious and intentional exaggeration.

2.

an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

 

Thanks, Dictionary.com.

 

Now, which is it? I think it's #2...

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For everyone wanting a clone test, I'm willing to bet the numbers turn up different from OEM to clone. Why? There's a reason clones are cheaper, one is materials used. Two is that the outside looks te same but they're different inside, where it counts. Ever seen a cline head cut in half? Looks tons different than an OEM cut in half.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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For everyone wanting a clone test, I'm willing to bet the numbers turn up different from OEM to clone. Why? There's a reason clones are cheaper, one is materials used. Two is that the outside looks te same but they're different inside, where it counts. Ever seen a cline head cut in half? Looks tons different than an OEM cut in half.

 

 

And that's my goal: find out how true that is.

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And that's my goal: find out how true that is.

 

Amen brother!

I mean... you go brother! LOL I'll wait for the results xD

:cobra-small: SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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