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Have Modern Iron Lofts Put FIVE Wedges In Your Bag?


BostonSal
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2 hours ago, Middler said:

I'd agree except where does it stop, when a 9 iron has a 21º loft and the rest of the irons are wedges? So far 2 and 3 irons have been all but eliminated, some iron sets start at 5 now...

Part of the problem is that seniors like myself tend to be neither tech savvy nor big spenders.

That's not me, but it's almost ALL of my friends.

Seniors in particular, due to our slower swing speeds, would benefit from wider gapped irons sets.

Manufacturers know this, but they also know that they won't sell many if they make them because seniors don't keep track of tech and are slow to spend four grand on a new set of clubs because they remember when a good set cost four hundred.

Just for the sake of an exercise, consider the following.

5-iron,   27º, 38¼" [extra quarter inch for smaller loft gap--could even go three-eighths]

6-iron,   30º, 37½"

7-iron,   35°, 37"

8-iron,   40°, 36½"

9-iron,   45º, 36"

PW,         50°, 35½"

These are the gaps that would work best for most slower swinging senior players, and the manufacturers know it.

But why make it if you're not going to be able to sell it?

Edited by BostonSal

 

 

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^^^ That’ll never happen, when you can now buy a “7” iron with a 27* loft. No senior is going to accept a 7 iron with a 35* loft anymore - even though that’s pretty close to traditional lofts, and what todays tour blades still are. All most players ultimately care about is saying I hit my new “7” iron 10-20 yards further than my old one. I see seniors who are kidding themselves about how far they hit there new shovel MAX irons, most oblivious to how lofts have changed for GI/SGI irons. They really think they’re hitting it farther…

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1 minute ago, Middler said:

^^^ That’ll never happen, when you can now buy a “7” iron with a 27* loft. No senior is going to accept a 7 iron with a 35* loft anymore - even though that’s pretty close to traditional lofts, and what todays tour blades still are. All most players ultimately care about is saying I hit my new “7” iron 10-20 yards further than my old one…

True enough, but the fault lies with the unsophisticated consumer, not the manufacturer.

 

 

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Loft is more important to me than the club name. Ben Hogan did it right several years ago when they loft was stamped on the club instead of 9, 8, etc. But they did not carry on with this as the public did not identify with a 150 yard shot needing the 42 degree instead of a 9 iron.

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4 minutes ago, Titleist87 said:

Loft is more important to me than the club name. Ben Hogan did it right several years ago when they loft was stamped on the club instead of 9, 8, etc. But they did not carry on with this as the public did not identify with a 150 yard shot needing the 42 degree instead of a 9 iron.

I fully agree.  Hogan had a great idea, but consumers didn't agree.

To survive, manufacturers have to make what consumers will buy.

I have in my mind the perfect set for me, but nobody is ever going to offer it because I may be the only one who would buy it.

MANY seniors, ladies, and juniors would benefit from such a set, but FEW would buy it.

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The traditional loft comments always make me laugh. Most use it in terms of today’s irons compared when they first started playing. A 35* 7 iron is a strong lofted 7i compared to the 80s and even stronger when you compare it to the 60-70s era clubs.

Lofts have gotten stronger as technology and design have improved and keeps the ball in the right launch window. That’s all explained in the video posted earlier from the titleist master fitter.

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18 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The traditional loft comments always make me laugh. Most use it in terms of today’s irons compared when they first started playing. A 35* 7 iron is a strong lofted 7i compared to the 80s and even stronger when you compare it to the 60-70s era clubs.

Lofts have gotten stronger as technology and design have improved and keeps the ball in the right launch window. That’s all explained in the video posted earlier from the titleist master fitter.

Do you really understand what you're laughing at, Ricky?

First of all, applying modern technology to golf club design made altering the length / loft correlation necessary.

NOBODY IS DISAGREEING WITH THAT!!!!

The industry decided to keep the club number approximately  correlated to the tradition lengths.

They could just as easily have decided to keep the club number approximately correlated to the traditional lofts.

They just decided to go the other way.  It's that simple. The modern clubs would still be exactly the same except for stamping.

If somebody DARES to suggest that the manufacturers had done it the other way around---merely expressing an opinion or preference ---

they are treated on these pages as if they were the moral equivalent of terrorists or child molesters!

 

Further, as the discussion went on, it turned to GAPS between lofts more than lofts themselves.

Senior, juniors, and women might benefit, due to slower swing speeds, to wider gaps.

Attempts at marketing that concept failed in the past, however.  That's what's being discussed.

That might not interest everybody. No Problem.  Just ignore threads on the subject.

No need to argue about it, though.    Follow the threads that interest you.

Please don't take offense.  I think that you're just misunderstanding us.

 

 

 

 

Edited by BostonSal

 

 

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51 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

Do you really understand what you're laughing at, Ricky?

Yes I do. I’m well versed in club design and have had the chance to spend multiple weekends with club manufacturers like cobra and bridgestone along with Px and ust on the shaft side of things.

What I’m laughing at is people using terms that make no sense. The term traditional gets thrown around for clubs and attire on a regular basis. Nothing in the modern era is traditional. 

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13 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yes I do. I’m well versed in club design and have had the chance to spend multiple weekends with club manufacturers like cobra and bridgestone along with Px and ust on the shaft side of things.

What I’m laughing at is people using terms that make no sense. The term traditional gets thrown around for clubs and attire on a regular basis. Nothing in the modern era is traditional. 

Nothing in the modern era is traditional.  Agreed.

The word traditional remains in the lexicon nonetheless, Ricky.

Your generation is no different than mine or any other.

We all act as if the history of humanity before we arrived is totally irrelevant!

People my age discuss with one another how we may have preferred something to evolve as opposed to how it did.

What's hard to understand is why anybody would find that so offensive!

Just ignore conversations that don't interest you rather than belittle them.

Otherwise, it appears that you're just spoiling for an argument.

Nobody is trying to offend you.

We're just discussing something which doesn't interest you.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BostonSal said:

If somebody DARES to suggest that the manufacturers had done it the other way around---merely expressing an opinion or preference ---

they are treated on these pages as if they were the moral equivalent of terrorists or child molesters!

 

Senior, juniors, and women might benefit, due to slower swing speeds, to wider gaps.

 

The issue is that people think that the matching of a number on the club and the loft are extremely important.   No one can explain WHY it is so important.  Golf requires that you hit a club a specific distance.  I can hit a low lofted club with a half swing or I high lofted club with a full swing or I could be a player that has less shaft lean so I deliver less loft at impact.    Why does the number/loft correlation matter?  No one explains that other than saying that current clubs are more delofted than older clubs.  Okay that is try,  but again so what?     

I agree with you 100% that having a "set" with larger loft gaps or by simply carrying less clubs (the starter set that many of learned to play golf with.

 

@Titleist87 said "loft is more important to me than the club name".    Educate me on why having a 27* labeled as a 5 iron is so important and helps you play better golf.  Why is a 45* PW bad?    Importance is more than a preference.  

 

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1 minute ago, cnosil said:

  Importance is more than a preference.  

 

Importance is more than a preference....OK, I see that.

The issue is people being belittled because they choose to discuss a preference anyway.

The website has lots of bandwidth available.

People interesting in discussing a golf topic that may only interest a few of us SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM.

The others can simply ignore the topic. They can even put the participants on "ignore" if they wish.

What they SHOULDN'T DO, in my opinion, is belittle other people for discussing a topic that doesn't interest them.

If we discuss something that you don't think is particularly relevant, it shouldn't diminish in any way your enjoyment of the forum pages as a whole.

I ignore tons of subjects that don't interest me.

I don't belittle people for discussing things that don't interest me, however.

That's what we're really talking about, here.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

Importance is more than a preference....OK, I see that.

The issue is people being belittled because they choose to discuss a preference anyway.

The website has lots of bandwidth available.

People interesting in discussing a golf topic that may only interest a few of us SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM.

The others can simply ignore the topic. They can even put the participants on "ignore" if they wish.

What they SHOULDN'T DO, in my opinion, is belittle other people for discussing a topic that doesn't interest them.

If we discuss something that you don't think is particularly relevant, it shouldn't diminish in any way your enjoyment of the forum pages as a whole.

I ignore tons of subjects that don't interest me.

I don't belittle people for discussing things that don't interest me, however.

That's what we're really talking about, here.

 

At least you have acknowledged that it is a preference.  Most people that discuss the current lofts of clubs talk as if it has ruined the game. 

I am no belittling anyone on this topic,  I have just been waiting for someone to say that is it simply a preference like preferring one brand over another or a particular color.    I don't have an ego about what club I pull or how far I hit it;  I just want clubs that help me get the ball into the hole faster.   But you are correct on every forum people are attacked for liking the old loft numbers.    If we go back to the title of the thread,  manufacturers have changed the number of clubs and player now are putting more clubs called wedges in their bags. 

I do ignore lots of topics,  but I like to learn about club design and the impact of design features.  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 

At least you have acknowledged that it is a preference.  Most people that discuss the current lofts of clubs talk as if it has ruined the game. 

I am no belittling anyone on this topic,  I have just been waiting for someone to say that is it simply a preference like preferring one brand over another or a particular color.    I don't have an ego about what club I pull or how far I hit it;  I just want clubs that help me get the ball into the hole faster.   

I do ignore lots of topics,  but I like to learn about club design and the impact of design features.  

 

 

Of course it's a preference.    It's far from ruining the game.  I play with modern clubs like everybody else.

Not particularly liking the cosmetic consideration of the number stamping is not the same as not liking the clubs. 

Some of us keep talking about it, and we're really easy to ignore if we're boring you!

 

 

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1 hour ago, BostonSal said:

Nothing in the modern era is traditional.  Agreed.

The word traditional remains in the lexicon nonetheless, Ricky.

Your generation is no different than mine or any other.

We all act as if the history of humanity before we arrived is totally irrelevant!

People my age discuss with one another how we may have preferred something to evolve as opposed to how it did.

What's hard to understand is why anybody would find that so offensive!

Just ignore conversations that don't interest you rather than belittle them.

Otherwise, it appears that you're just spoiling for an argument.

Nobody is trying to offend you.

We're just discussing something which doesn't interest you.

You shouldn’t assume ones generation.

Im not offended by anything in this thread. I’m just laughing at the use of a word because I find it funny in the way it’s used to argue against stronger lofts and having to use more wedges or not or when the stronger lofts are going to stop. 

It’s the same reason I laugh when people talk about being traditional in their clothing choices and not like hoodies, or the various patterns or colors and prefer polos to mock turtlenecks and so on. When traditional golf clothes were button down shirts, toes, sweaters, knickers or long pants. 
 

To each their own, I’m just posting my opinion and reaction to a use of a word.

 

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3 hours ago, BostonSal said:

The industry decided to keep the club number approximately  correlated to the tradition lengths.

They could just as easily have decided to keep the club number approximately correlated to the traditional lofts.

Unfortunately that’s not correct. The tech has changed gradually and concurrently but to separate a couple developments. Early on the industry engaged in almost pure loft jacking to increase distances and sell more clubs. That resulted in lower trajectory, lower spin and that’s not ideal for an approach shot. So they lowered CG resulting in higher launch angles, still with stronger lofts. They also made faces more lively adding more distance. So the industry basically ended up choosing to assign club numbers approximately correlated to launch angle/trajectory/descent angle - and that’s resulted in (much) longer distances for a given number iron more often than not.

If they’d kept club numbers and lofts about the same, we wouldn’t be having these discussions…

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I personally don't care what's stamped on the bottom of my club other than as a way to determine which club I'm grabbing out of my bag.  It's only important to me as to how far I hit that club.  I've never been one to compare what club I'm hitting in relation to my playing partners.  When I ask distance, I don't want to hear that it's an easy 7 iron, because that doesn't tell me anything.

And yes, I have 5 wedges in my bag.

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Most people claim to not care about the number stamping on the club.

That makes sense.  If you don't care, you don't care.  I'm cool with you not caring.  I would guess everybody is cool with you not caring.

 

One needn't get apoplectic about the few of us who would rather see different numbers stamped on the soles.

If we choose to discuss the prohibited "jacked loft" issue, we're easier enough to ignore. 

There's plenty of space on the internet for us to do it.

It shouldn't get the majority as angry as it sometimes seems to get them.

Ignore the discussion that's nonsensical to you, but let the few of us who care about it have the discussion without

incendiary comments about how annoying and foolish we are.

There's always an outside possibility that somebody somewhere may decide that there are enough of us to be accommodated with something different.

Probably not, of course, but we're entitled to try. 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

incendiary comments about how annoying and foolish we are.

There's always an outside possibility that somebody somewhere may decide that there are enough of us to be accommodated with something different.

This will be my last post/reply/quote to you in this thread.

At no point in time did I call anyone foolish or annoying. I stated that I was laughing at the comments of people and use of the term traditional, that wasn’t only about this thread ir the people in it. It was its use in general on golf forums So let stop with putting words in my mouth. 

If you watched the video i posted from the titleist fitting and go see other comments that have been posted from @Golfspy_CG2 directly from other club manufacturers you will see that the numbers on the bottom of the clubs aren’t just some arbitrary number out on there and the chance that anyone in the r&d department of club manufacturers after a decade plus of people on the Internet complaining about jacked lofts are going to accommodate that crowd are pretty slim.

Lastly for someone who claims to have me on ignore you sure are spending a lot of time and energy quoting me or posting a reply without quoting me. As you say feel free to ignore the conversation if you don’t like what one has to say.

 

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Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

This will be my last post/reply/quote to you in this thread.

At no point in time did I call anyone foolish or annoying. I stated that I was laughing at the comments of people and use of the term traditional, that wasn’t only about this thread ir the people in it. It was its use in general on golf forums So let stop with putting words in my mouth. 

If you watched the video i posted from the titleist fitting and go see other comments that have been posted from @Golfspy_CG2 directly from other club manufacturers you will see that the numbers on the bottom of the clubs aren’t just some arbitrary number out on there and the chance that anyone in the r&d department of club manufacturers after a decade plus of people on the Internet complaining about jacked lofts are going to accommodate that crowd are pretty slim.

Lastly for someone who claims to have me on ignore you sure are spending a lot of time and energy quoting me or posting a reply without quoting me. As you say feel free to ignore the conversation if you don’t like what one has to say.

 

I do have you on ignore but it isn't working with your posts for some reason.

Nothing personal. mind you. We don't know each other.  I'm just trying to avoid arguments.

It's just that this topic always precipitates a long, drawn out back and forth for no reason.

People who want to discuss jacked lofts can't without starting a big controversy that we're not looking to start.

We already know that we're a cult minority.  We still should be able to discuss it if we like.

It needn't piss people off the way it does.  You disagree. Ignore us.

OK, we can close this thread if the mods like.  

 

 

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12 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

I do have you on ignore but it isn't working with your posts for some reason.

Nothing personal. mind you. We don't know each other.  I'm just trying to avoid arguments.

It's just that this topic always precipitates a long, drawn out back and forth for no reason.

People who want to discuss jacked lofts can't without starting a big controversy that we're not looking to start.

We already know that we're a cult minority.  We still should be able to discuss it if we like.

It needn't piss people off the way it does.  You disagree. Ignore us.

OK, we can close this thread if the mods like.  

The MODs will decide when to close a topic.  If people disagreeing with you bothers you so much, and it apparently does.  Perhaps you should Ignore it.  But it seems from your posts you have trouble ignoring and not commenting on the subject.   So not sure what you’re complaining about. 

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