Mizuno JPX 923

[GolfSpy SAM]

1 hour ago, MattF said:

 Right at the moment I'm getting about the same distance, but I expect that to change to the tune of 5-10 yards.

The mishits are the real winner for me. Even if it's off line, expecting it to still be near pin high will be great.

Curious if you've seen any of those "I flushed it and suddenly it's going 10-15 yards further than normal" shots with these - absolutely love that the mishits aren't penalizing you on distance, though.  I just have a tendency to, every once in a while, actually hit my irons out of the center, and I can't always guarantee they go the distance they normally do, lol.  (I nearly beaned someone 30 yards over the back of the 18th one time - I still don't understand what happened, but there is genuinely no way in hell my club would ever go that far - except it did.) 

[yungkory]

5 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Thanks Matt, I used "launch" as a buzzword... what I really wanted to know is if to your eye they flew the same or higher (or lower), and gave you similar, better or worse distance.  Sounds like they are a huge winner for mishits... which is awesome as well.  

I'm not adverse to LM data... but at the same time... I have a tendency to spend my time hitting balls rather than setting up the LM (or connecting to one at my range).  My hands, my ears, and my eyes are how I gauge if a club is a match for me...

Dynamic loft is going to play a larger role than anything else in terms of launch I believe. So all things equal, the "high launch" are going to launch higher because they're 3-degrees weaker throughout most of the set than the standard HM. They juiced the materials to keep ball speeds high -- so you get higher launch, more ball speed, and similar distance -- like what Rob saw vs his PXG (which are 4 degrees stronger).

I hit one model from almost every major OEM during my fitting (in hindsight I should've waited for the 223s to drop) and my delivery conditions result in nearly identical launch averages (right around 14 degrees with a 6i), until you give me more loft. Beyond that, if I wanted to increase my launch I would need a shaft with a softer tip section. 

So, I don't think there's any magic going on with the HL. They just kept the lofts traditional, and found a way to create more ball speed via materials, which is great for people who want/need those things and great for fitters because they can fine tune things during fits. I think a split set with HL and standard HM might be common. Little extra height to help with those greens that are protected by bunkers in front and those kind of things.

  

2 hours ago, Samsonite said:

Curious if you've seen any of those "I flushed it and suddenly it's going 10-15 yards further than normal" shots with these - absolutely love that the mishits aren't penalizing you on distance, though.  I just have a tendency to, every once in a while, actually hit my irons out of the center, and I can't always guarantee they go the distance they normally do, lol.  (I nearly beaned someone 30 yards over the back of the 18th one time - I still don't understand what happened, but there is genuinely no way in hell my club would ever go that far - except it did.) 

 

Biased Mizuno opinion: I think Mizunos have the best front-back distance dispersion I've ever seen. I would likely have Ping i59s in my bag if I didn't feel like they were too "hot." I want my irons to go a specific distance, dispersion left to right is on me. Without any external forces (wind, flier lie, etc.) if I hit the middle of the face I know it's going to go the distance I want it to.

[GolfSpy TCB]

2 minutes ago, yungkory said:

Dynamic loft is going to play a larger role than anything else in terms of launch I believe. So all things equal, the "high launch" are going to launch higher because they're 3-degrees weaker throughout most of the set than the standard HM. They juiced the materials to keep ball speeds high -- so you get higher launch, more ball speed, and similar distance -- like what Rob saw vs his PXG (which are 4 degrees stronger).

I hit one model from almost every major OEM during my fitting (in hindsight I should've waited for the 223s to drop) and my delivery conditions result in nearly identical launch averages (right around 14 degrees with a 6i), until you give me more loft. Beyond that, if I wanted to increase my launch I would need a shaft with a softer tip section. 

So, I don't think there's any magic going on with the HL. They just kept the lofts traditional, and found a way to create more ball speed via materials, which is great for people who want/need those things and great for fitters because they can fine tune things during fits. I think a split set with HL and standard HM might be common. Little extra height to help with those greens that are protected by bunkers in front and those kind of things.

Thanks YK.  Your comments will certainly hold true for the HL.  I don't recall what Matt was playing before getting the new HMP's but was wondering if there was any new tech built in to even the non HL models to get some higher apex.  May not be noticeable, but that is one thing I'm curious about.  

I play the T200's, but have tried out the Stealth irons, and while they are stronger lofted, and give me more distance which is to be expected... what I didn't expect was the higher launch that was very evident.  Wondering if the JPX923's offer that outside the weaker lofted HL's. 

Ultimately, I will get them in my hands to work them out for myself... until then... living vicariously through those of you that have had a chance to hit them. 

[Butterworth]

Took me awhile to get used to 921s.even took 5i out of bag for a time. Would not trade for anything else. Was fitted and at 74 these will probably my last new irons. Oh by the way there gorgeous. Hdc.3.6

 

[MattF]

14 hours ago, Samsonite said:

Curious if you've seen any of those "I flushed it and suddenly it's going 10-15 yards further than normal" shots with these - absolutely love that the mishits aren't penalizing you on distance, though.  I just have a tendency to, every once in a while, actually hit my irons out of the center, and I can't always guarantee they go the distance they normally do, lol.  (I nearly beaned someone 30 yards over the back of the 18th one time - I still don't understand what happened, but there is genuinely no way in hell my club would ever go that far - except it did.) 

No flyers at this stage but flushed will get some more out of them. Too bad I'm not consistent enough to always hit the centre. 

12 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

I don't recall what Matt was playing before getting the new HMP's

Right before, Maltby DBM for about 3 months. Before that, Wilson D7 forged (from a test here) for close to 2 years.

[ejgaudette]

3 hours ago, MattF said:

No flyers at this stage but flushed will get some more out of them. Too bad I'm not consistent enough to always hit the centre.

I have the 919 HMP and I would say the same thing, no real fliers here. Though I am a bit steep so I usually have enough spin to keep flight consistent. That's normally what causes that flier, if you spin is border line with your irons losing even a little spin can send them like rockets.

[GolfSpy SAM]

Okay - here's my next question.  So, I'm definitely not the market for the HMHL - driver is between 99-101, typically.  But: why wouldn't someone like me look at the HL?  I mean, I don't mind the loft being more "traditional", it's something I've been looking at anyway, since I'd rather get consistent distance control than sometimes hitting a 185 yard 7-iron (Sim Max to the rescue?) and other times hitting it 170...  I guess I'm wondering why the high launch would be a bad fit for someone with faster swing speeds - would the ball just spin up too much?  Go "too high" (shout out to Major League)?  How much different would the HL (at 31) be from, say, a MP225/223 at 32 (recognizing fully that those are not nearly as chunky - I'm just spit-balling here)?  

I'm guessing that my swing speed is sufficient to get the desired height from the HM/Pro model, and therefore that would be the better fit, I'm just not sure I need to be hitting a 28.5 degree 7-iron.  

Sincerely,
Confused in Santa Clarita

[Middler]

I did not realize the 923HM HL was the largest head with the most offset, wouldn't have guessed that, but that's an aside.

There are some YT videos starting to appear that express confusion re: the HL, a design that seems to contradict what we've all been told about GI/SGI lofts. For years we were all told lower swing speed players who needed more distance, that hot faced/low CG irons with stronger lofts gave them the best of both worlds. Now Mizuno is telling the same players that the answer to lower swing speeds is more loft? After years of all club makers insisting they had to use lower lofts to add distance and keep launch in the "right trajectory window" - now the same market needs more loft/higher launch with the exact same face tech?

It is interesting to watch some of the high swing speed YT reviewers experience with the HL - crazy peak heights and descent angles with distance.

Not looking for yet another loft jacking debate (I'm as tired of that as anyone), just an interesting turn of events. All the Hot Metals are the same tech, so it's interesting the biggest head has higher lofts???

Just one example 

 

[GolfSpy TCB]

23 minutes ago, Middler said:

I did not realize the 923HM HL was the largest head with the most offset, wouldn't have guessed that, but that's an aside.

There are some YT videos starting to appear that express confusion re: the HL, a design that seems to contradict what we've all been told about GI/SGI lofts. For years we were all told lower swing speed players who needed more distance, that hot faced/low CG irons with stronger lofts gave them the best of both worlds. Now Mizuno is telling the same players that the answer to lower swing speeds is more loft? After years of all club makers insisting they had to use lower lofts to add distance and keep launch in the "right trajectory window" - now the same market needs more loft/higher launch with the exact same face tech?

It is interesting to watch some of the high swing speed YT reviewers experience with the HL - crazy peak heights and descent angles with distance.

Not looking for yet another loft jacking debate (I'm as tired of that as anyone), just an interesting turn of events. All the Hot Metals are the same tech, so it's interesting the biggest head has higher lofts???

Just one example 

 

IMHO the answer to your questions is ... "yes".  

Swings are like snowflakes.  What setup works for one, doesn't work for another.  I see value in stronger lofts and lower CG for some swings, and higher lofts with higher CG for others... and of course in the case of the HMHL - higher lofts with lower CG for another subset of swingers.  I can only imagine the towering shots produced by high swing speed players with that low CG... in fact there was a video of some tour players testing out the T200 last year that talks about that... 

I think the advantage of the HL is maximizing carry, where the stronger lofts obviously are intended to maximize total distance - especially for slower swing speeds.  The HMHL is an intriguing option, and I think it is one that will be met with skepticism early, but will probably find the way into many Amateur bags in the next year.  I have gone full circle on what I want from my irons, with my slowing swing speed with each passing week it seems.  I started wanting total distance with a low bore flight.  But if I'm trying to play to pins more, or even to the correct half of the green... I'm finding I would rather have confidence in my carry distance consistency, and the ability to stop the ball on the green... enter the HMHL as a viable option.

And here is the key... everything I said above is how I would approach a new set of irons for MY SNOWFLAKE.  

 

[Middler]

1 hour ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

I have gone full circle on what I want from my irons, with my slowing swing speed with each passing week it seems.

Same here, never struggled with height or distance, but now that I am 68 yo - and finally discovered that if I take an extra 2 clubs  (yes 2!!!) and swing that much easier, my dispersion improves in ALL directions. I'm hitting more fairways and GIR, and scoring better. But as expected I have lost some stopping power. After 58 years using forged irons exclusively, for feel mostly, I may buy GI this time around and let the club do more for me. Fortunately I am still longer than most of my peers, so I have some options for now.

Too soon old, too late smart...

[Billy-Bo-Jim-Bob]

Picked up on the comment from Mizuno that 923 will have slightly higher bounce and camber. That would likely work for me.....really well to enhance feel through the ball! I'm the steeper guy.

[Chris Taylor]

I'm a big Mizuno fan (JPX 800 Pro through JPX 921 HM Pro). But I'm not crazy about the incremental loft changes we're seeing lately. When I started gaming the 921s, it took a full season to adjust mentally to looking down at my 8 iron, but seeing a 7 iron loft. I wouldn't bother going through that frustrating experience again. But that's exactly what Mizuno did again with these new irons. This can't be good for customer experience. In fact, the rate of change is increasing! I don't get it.

JPX 919 ~ 9 iron = 40 degrees

JPX 921 ~ 9 iron = 39 degrees

JPX 923 ~ 9 iron = 37.5 degrees

[GolfSpy TCB]

2 hours ago, Middler said:

After 58 years using forged irons exclusively, for feel mostly, I may buy GI this time around and let the club do more for me.

I played blades forever, then switched to forged cavity backs last year, and I recently have been doing some personal testing with cast GI's and I have to say... my eyes are starting to open on them... 

[Middler]

3 hours ago, Chris Taylor said:

I'm a big Mizuno fan (JPX 800 Pro through JPX 921 HM Pro). But I'm not crazy about the incremental loft changes we're seeing lately. When I started gaming the 921s, it took a full season to adjust mentally to looking down at my 8 iron, but seeing a 7 iron loft. I wouldn't bother going through that frustrating experience again. But that's exactly what Mizuno did again with these new irons. This can't be good for customer experience. In fact, the rate of change is increasing! I don't get it.

JPX 919 ~ 9 iron = 40 degrees

JPX 921 ~ 9 iron = 39 degrees

JPX 923 ~ 9 iron = 37.5 degrees

I've always compared 7 irons, and that doesn't look quite as "crazy?"

JPX 919 ~ 7 iron = 30 degrees

JPX 921 ~ 7 iron = 29 degrees

JPX 923 ~ 7 iron = 28.5 degrees

Once you get up into near wedges, like the 9 iron, club makers are stuck as they're not going to market stronger loft wedges? So comparing 9 irons may not be the best measure? Just my guess.

And lofts didn't change at all from 921 to 923 for 4/5/6 irons so you have to look at more than one iron loft.

[ejgaudette]

7 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

IMHO the answer to your questions is ... "yes".  

Swings are like snowflakes.  What setup works for one, doesn't work for another.  I see value in stronger lofts and lower CG for some swings, and higher lofts with higher CG for others... and of course in the case of the HMHL - higher lofts with lower CG for another subset of swingers.  I can only imagine the towering shots produced by high swing speed players with that low CG... in fact there was a video of some tour players testing out the T200 last year that talks about that... 

I think the advantage of the HL is maximizing carry, where the stronger lofts obviously are intended to maximize total distance - especially for slower swing speeds.  The HMHL is an intriguing option, and I think it is one that will be met with skepticism early, but will probably find the way into many Amateur bags in the next year.  I have gone full circle on what I want from my irons, with my slowing swing speed with each passing week it seems.  I started wanting total distance with a low bore flight.  But if I'm trying to play to pins more, or even to the correct half of the green... I'm finding I would rather have confidence in my carry distance consistency, and the ability to stop the ball on the green... enter the HMHL as a viable option.

And here is the key... everything I said above is how I would approach a new set of irons for MY SNOWFLAKE.  

 

I think we have also seen that in the SGI category like Ceveland HiBore and Cobra's Max line have kept the lofts high since those players with the slowest speeds don't get enough height even with the hotter faces and lower CGs. Ultimately I think it is just as you said, giving an option to those that can't get enough height on the HM or just want that height, now is an option without trying to end what is likely a tough club to move.

[Chris Taylor]

3 hours ago, Middler said:

Quote

I've always compared 7 irons, and that doesn't look quite as "crazy?"

Fair enough, though my first set of Mizuno was the JPX 800 Pro and that 7 iron was 33 degrees. Back then the 6 iron was 29 degrees. That said, the new 7 iron in the 923 set up is 28.5 degrees. So the new 7 iron is stronger than my old 6 iron. Granted, I'm not getting any younger, and so it's almost like my clubs are compensating for my age, but still it really feels weird knowing that I'm holding a 7 iron with the right length shaft, but looking down at a club, I see something stronger than a 6 iron. As such, it really did take me an entire golf season to make the adjustment. For what it's worth, I love my 921s. Best clubs I've ever gamed.

 

[Hook DeLoft]

For me, stronger lofts have meant having fewer irons and more wedges. I just picked up a set with a 27 degree 7 iron. I don’t even bother putting the 5 and 6 irons in the bag. I bought them used. If I was ordering a new set, I would just buy 5 irons. 

[Rickp]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:00 AM, Butterworth said:

Took me awhile to get used to 921s.even took 5i out of bag for a time. Would not trade for anything else. Was fitted and at 74 these will probably my last new irons. Oh by the way there gorgeous. Hdc.3.6

 

I’m 75 (very soon76) and looking serious at the 923.  Maybe my last iron purchase also but I’ve said that more than a few times.  
Looking at a fitting when local golf shop gets their fitting cart with the LH irons.

[dlow206]

I did the thing I should have done and went to a store and got fit. The fitter was actually pretty solid, had a good dialog. Hit the HM and HM HL the best. The added loft of the HL was good, definitely hit them higher, launch angle was higher and peak height was higher. 

I was swinging the 7 iron at about 85 mph after i was warmed up, so the fitter said speed is not my issue as it relates to launch angle and peak height. He was leaning towards standard Hot Metal but bent weak, 1 to 2 degrees. 

[Rickp]

2 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I did the thing I should have done and went to a store and got fit. The fitter was actually pretty solid, had a good dialog. Hit the HM and HM HL the best. The added loft of the HL was good, definitely hit them higher, launch angle was higher and peak height was higher. 

I was swinging the 7 iron at about 85 mph after i was warmed up, so the fitter said speed is not my issue as it relates to launch angle and peak height. He was leaning towards standard Hot Metal but bent weak, 1 to 2 degrees. 

You’re a lot younger with faster swing speed than me.  I’m thinking the HL will be my iron if choice.  The only reason I’m going for a fitting will be the shaft options for an Ole Fart like myself.  My 2nd concern will be what irons I need 6 thru GW or even 7-GW.  My 6 hybrid has been pretty good.
I remember the day when my set was 3-PW!!! 
Don’t get old Grasshoppers!!!