How about this approach

[Big money]

Been enjoying following many a swing progress accounts on instagram. One person, who I chat with, sent me their recent online lesson. Let's just say wow!!! In an overwhelming way. The lesson was 1 hour 15 mins and was extremely thorough. However ; the changes were on the extreme side of being overwhelming. The teacher was asking this client too improve their pivot using chairs - pool noodles - and alignment sticks. These changes for the ordinary person would take a decade too implement

 

What about ? Just teaching a golfer the basic fundamentals. The grip - stance - alignment and maybe some basics ball flight laws. Let them than develop a natural swing using this basic information as a foundation. Once they are established a common ball flight miss will be noticed. Either the student will have a slice or a hook. From there just tame the bad shots into draws or fades and play with what you have. What would be wrong with a more natural swing approach vs a complete time consuming overhaul

 

Yea or Nay on both approaches. Reworking entire swing , or a lot natural motion changing minute areas using basic instruction

[DPattGolf]

It really depends on what the student can handle. Personally I have always been able to handle a lot and make changes feel normal within the span of a normal lesson. Makes me thank God for my athleticism and body control! 

[Big money]

It really depends on what the student can handle. Personally I have always been able to handle a lot and make changes feel normal within the span of a normal lesson. Makes me thank God for my athleticism and body control!

 

So I guess you are against the Natural (swing your swing ) approach.

[DPattGolf]

So I guess you are against the Natural (swing your swing ) approach.

Not necessarily. For most that natural style is a great way to build a base. But for me (and others) I came into golf with that swing off that get go thanks to baseball. Add in the fact that I can learn athletic movements pretty fast and I am the kind of player build for the big changes being made early on. Then again I am not the average golfer and just kind of weird. I essential came into golf as a 10 handicap and once I decided I wanted to put in the practice to get as good as I possibly could I went from a 5 to a +2 in less than a year.

[GB13]

I don't think reworking a swing is the way to go. No one has a cookie cutter swing to begin with and trying to force them into it won't work. I think you can make subtle changes to a natural swing to make it better but reworking game it entirely will cause more problems than there was before. No student can take a reworking in one lesson. I don't even know if they ever will be able to implement all of the changes.

 

How many tour pros have cookie cutter swings? They are all great swings but how many are the exact "perfect swing"? These pros made subtle changes to their natural swing to turn it into to their own personal masterpiece.If a pro can't have a perfect swing, no instructor can build one in an hour with an amateur.

 

Anyway, swing your swing, make subtle changes to improve, and practice.

[DaveP043]

I've seen the swings that many players develop naturally.  Many are simply awful.  Even with a improved set-up, each individual will swing differently, depending on their background.  There are a small number of characteristics present in pretty much every good swing, its important to work on achieving those.  Certainly, there's a lot of room for individuality, but some basics are essential.  And in my mind, those basics go far beyond grip, stance, and alignment.

 

On the other hand, I'm a big believer in incremental changes.  One thing at a time, not a dozen different corrections all at once.  The true skill of a good instructor is the ability to determine which single change is most important, and to find a way for his student to achieve that.  Once the player has fully ingrained that change, move on to the next most important change.  

[Gg Owen]

So many enjoy making this game overly complicated.It's all about getting the ball in the hole not making a missle or rocket.Ive often wondered, what would happen if you told these top pros that.Or what would happen if someone told them you just can't do what they ask.Or tell them one is completely and utterly confused and overwhelmed.Would they take offense,accommodate you..or ask you too leave and give a refund

[DaveP043]

So many enjoy making this game overly complicated.It's all about getting the ball in the hole not making a missle or rocket.Ive often wondered, what would happen if you told these top pros that.Or what would happen if someone told them you just can't do what they ask.Or tell them one is completely and utterly confused and overwhelmed.Would they take offense,accommodate you..or ask you too leave and give a refund

The thing is, swinging a golf club really IS a fairly complicated movement.  Well, its not THAT complicated, just to swing it, unless you actually want to hit the ball with the center of the clubface, and go a specific distance in a specific direction.  Then its kind of complicated.

On the other hand, a GOOD instructor WILL work within a student's physical abilities.  A good instructor will be able to explain what he wants you to do, and WHY its important so you DO understand it.  A good instructor will make sure his student doesn't have too many things to work on, one or two changes at a time is plenty.  I don't know what a "top pro" would do, but a "good instructor" will do these things well.  

[THEZIPR23]

When I was giving lessons the key to me was always to gather information on what the student wanted to accomplish and then explain to them the time and effort I thought it would take to implement the changes. If they wanted to stop slicing it was one thing, however if they wanted to lower their handicap 5 strokes it was completely different. There is definitely a thing as information overload that can come from receiving lessons. I struggled with teaching beginners because I do not play with the basic fundamentals that are conventionally taught. Yes they are in my swing but not it a traditional manner. 

 

From what the OP wrote the instructor was trying to achieve a different pivot. Sounds like there were many different devices being used but the goal was one change, that being the pivot. 

[Big money]

Any type of on lesson (guitar,golf,tennis,swimming etc)information given is the buyers responsibility in integrating it.The teacher is that, a teacher.Some may keep it simple while others may really lay down the lingo.Its the buyers job too research what he or she is looking for beforehand.One may ask shadowing another lesson.Or just read reviews or contact prior students on their opinions.The teachers can't hit the ball for you.

 

Do your research and stop complaining.Its your fault if under or overwhelmed

[DaveP043]

Been enjoying following many a swing progress accounts on instagram. One person, who I chat with, sent me their recent online lesson. Let's just say wow!!! In an overwhelming way. The lesson was 1 hour 15 mins and was extremely thorough. However ; the changes were on the extreme side of being overwhelming. The teacher was asking this client too improve their pivot using chairs - pool noodles - and alignment sticks. These changes for the ordinary person would take a decade too implement

 

 

From what the OP wrote the instructor was trying to achieve a different pivot. Sounds like there were many different devices being used but the goal was one change, that being the pivot. 

In reading the OP more carefully, I think THEZIPR23 has a pretty logical explanation.  Its one change the instructor wants the student to do, and he's given the student a number of different tools or drills to help him achieve it.  This makes even more sense when I consider this being an online lesson.  The instructor can't get immediate feedback from the student, he's not sure which drill will be the most effective, so he's suggesting a number of them.  We all learn differently, there's no way of knowing in advance which is the best way for this student to make this specific change.

[EthanSterlingPrice]

“The more extreme you exaggerate a motion in practice the quicker you'll pick it up in play” that's something my pro told me once. Having different drills is fine to try and find which gives the most feedback. You notice players on tour before a shot taking a practice swing and maybe doing it with an extra emphasis on one part like Rickie rehearsing his backswing or tiger doing those swings across his body before a shot. That's not exactly how they're gonna swing the club but that extra emphasis helps to get to the positions they want in the actual shot. From that point of view I'm for the lesson.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Golfspy_CG2]

“The more extreme you exaggerate a motion in practice the quicker you'll pick it up in play” that's something my pro told me once. Having different drills is fine to try and find which gives the most feedback. You notice players on tour before a shot taking a practice swing and maybe doing it with an extra emphasis on one part like Rickie rehearsing his backswing or tiger doing those swings across his body before a shot. That's not exactly how they're gonna swing the club but that extra emphasis helps to get to the positions they want in the actual shot. From that point of view I'm for the lesson.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

One of the more succesful lesson a pro gave me several years ago was exactly this.

 

In trying to help me learn to release the club he gave me a drill that he said would result in a bunch of really big hooks at first and that ok. Once I was doing that consistently then we'd modify it.

 

It worked for a while. As I feel I still struggle with releasing or turning my arms over properly.

 

 

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[bens197]

It depends on your audience. This works for the appropriate student but it's also more effective when someone is physically present to affect change.

 

I wouldn't necessarily be so quick to discount the ideas.

 

 

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[NiftyNiblick]

The physical attributes of the student are important, too.

Some people aren't flexible enough for a text book swing, assuming such a thing exists.

Some people can keep their balance raising the left heel a bit and some can't.

Body types also dictate more upright or flatter swings.

 

My teachers concentrated on my getting the club head to the ball effectively.  

I ended up with a swing that looked like a Nike Swoosh but got me down to an eight. 

That doesn't sound exiting to a 1.6, but in the universe of typical recreational players, it's actually pretty damned good.

 

I wouldn't presume to know what a good approach is,

but once i had a swing with which I could compress the ball,

subsequent lessons were to learn shots. 

I was never good enough to need a swing coach.

[cksurfdude]

When I was giving lessons the key to me was always to gather information on what the student wanted to accomplish and then explain to them the time and effort I thought it would take to implement the changes. If they wanted to stop slicing it was one thing, however if they wanted to lower their handicap 5 strokes it was completely different. There is definitely a thing as information overload that can come from receiving lessons. I struggled with teaching beginners because I do not play with the basic fundamentals that are conventionally taught. Yes they are in my swing but not it a traditional manner.

 

From what the OP wrote the instructor was trying to achieve a different pivot. Sounds like there were many different devices being used but the goal was one change, that being the pivot.

As a taker of golf lessons, and as someone who has been to a golf school and has seen a few different instructors - the most effective lessons .. for me .. have been the ones where the instructor told me clearly, directly and plainly what he wanted me to do. And showed me how.

 

Totally agree that the best teachers are the ones that learn to communicate effectively AND are able to do so in a way that suits each individual student so they are the most receptive.

 

Tied in with that, I also agree that an instructor should give a student as much new information as they deem the student can effectively handle .. whether that be incremental or wholesale change.

 

Depends on the student .. and also on their particular stage of development in the game. For example, for many beginners it may be preferable to work on one thing at a time - the incremental approach - while for a more advanced player it may be possible to give them a larger set of swing changes to work on.