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Adjusting irons loft for distance


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Hi gang,

I currently own a set of 2006 snake eyes 600C irons.  I haven't played in some time and was never really happy with my distance I'm 5'6 and 54yo,  Was thinking of buying the tailor made P790 but frankly I can afford them, would it make sense to adjust the loft on these irons by 2゚in order to give myself some more distance?  If so what I have to automatically adjust lie?  And would it make sense to add + .25 shaft lengh,

Thank you

Bob

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21 hours ago, Boblopez1 said:

Hi gang,

I currently own a set of 2006 snake eyes 600C irons.  I haven't played in some time and was never really happy with my distance I'm 5'6 and 54yo,  Was thinking of buying the tailor made P790 but frankly I can afford them, would it make sense to adjust the loft on these irons by 2゚in order to give myself some more distance?  If so what I have to automatically adjust lie?  And would it make sense to add + .25 shaft lengh,

Thank you

Bob

IMO, make sure those Snakeyes can be bent. GolfWorks can assist, not all clubs can be bent and, they will break...

You can adjust but remember, when adding loft you're adding bounce. Your clubs could become digger soles not good....for me I don't like diggers

Have fun

Edited by 10shot
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Hi 10Shot,

 I'm hoping they can be bent because they are forged club heads and I'm looking to the decrease loft not add loft so I can get more distance for example I believe the 7 iron is 34゚ I'd like to tighten that up to 32゚. 

Thanks for the GolfWorks tip

Bob

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3 hours ago, Boblopez1 said:

Hi 10Shot,

 I'm hoping they can be bent because they are forged club heads and I'm looking to the decrease loft not add loft so I can get more distance for example I believe the 7 iron is 34゚ I'd like to tighten that up to 32゚. 

Thanks for the GolfWorks tip

 

I would personally advise against adjusting all the clubs stronger.  Doing this does change the bounce of the club and turf interaction.  Performance may also be compromised as the club may launch lower, spin less, and run out more.   This may seem desirable but you may not have consistent performance.   Adding shaft length is potentially a way to gain distance.  

Focus on proper gaping and knowing how far the clubs carry.   You could also look at the used market and do some fittings to see what type of head and shaft works best for you.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Rather than bending them just do what all the OEM's are doing these days.

Take a sharpie and cross out the 7.  Write an 8 on it.  Boom, now you are hitting 8i as far as you used to hit 7i.  Then add an extra wedge at the bottom of the bag.

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

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I don't want to be Capt Obvious,, but I'm a Capt anyways.... but being vertically challenged and 54 years old you may need to seriously look at newer equipment to help with your distance needs. Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for.
With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. My advice is to get fit as cheaply as you can and find some newer distance irons on Ebay or BST that can fit you.
Chances are the clubs never fit you right from the get go.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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I agree that bending the clubs to achieve a stronger loft is not the way to go.  The reason clubs have stronger lofts today is they are designed to launch the ball higher.  If lofts weren't strengthened, they would launch too high for most players.  Since your Snake Eyes are almost 14 years old, they would launch lower with no spin as @cnosil said, and they would have poor turf interaction.

I'm assuming that the shafts are steel, since that was common in 2006.  Steel shafts tend to launch lower and give less distance unless your swing speed is fairly high.  Maybe they fit you 14 years ago, but they may not now.  Properly fit graphite shafts are lighter and launch higher than steel for slower swing speeds and will give more distance.  So you could get your irons reshafted, but you will still be losing distance and accuracy to the newer technology irons.  

Your clubs need to fit your swing.  A fitter will determine what combination of club head and shaft will work best for you.  You don't have to buy new... very nice sets of irons a couple of years old can be had for half the price of new and probably about the same price as getting your irons reshafted.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi guys thank you for the responses especially the Sharpie comment I love it lol but actually my issue is that 14 years ago I had a pretty good game and those 600 c's are small and have a thin top line which I absolutely love I cannot deal with a big club head it doesn't work for me. Taking all of your advice I just decided to do nothing and go to the driving range and hit the s*** out of hundreds of balls and my swing is coming back so now I think all I need to do is re shaft and re grip and get a new driver and I think I'll be OK. I'm excited to play again, I kind of moved on from the game after a bad experience at a small town CC. I got into road and mountain biking but 2 years ago I was diagnosed with a blood cancer and I take a chemo drug that's sapped my strenght and staying home was driving me nuts, so I dusted off my clubs and have fallen in love with the game again, lol im obsessed.

 

Thanks guys,

Edited by Boblopez1
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... Nothing wrong with bending older irons 1* for better gaping and a hair more distance, but distance gains will be minimal. Keep in mind that even with lower lofts, modern distance irons launch much higher with considerably less spin. The stopping power on greens comes from angle of descent, not spin. In most conditions, this works well but on hard, fast tour level greens (or in deserts) it can be a problem.  

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
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Hi Gang,

Update I finally decided to go to a club fitter and what 'ya know I've been playing with the wrong equipment for the last 13 years lol turns out my buddy the "club maker" made me set of irons with a C7 swung weight and a 1/2 inch short and my 7iron is 35deg lol no wonder I could barely hit it 140yds with an iron swing speed of 82mph.

Now I'm looking at a set of Srixon Z-785 1deg flat with stiff nippon 105 stepped down shaft with +4 Grips at a D1 swing weight. My god they felt amazing, should have done this a long time ago.

 Thanks everyone

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/10/2019 at 7:25 PM, Kenny B said:

I agree that bending the clubs to achieve a stronger loft is not the way to go.  The reason clubs have stronger lofts today is they are designed to launch the ball higher.  If lofts weren't strengthened, they would launch too high for most players.  Since your Snake Eyes are almost 14 years old, they would launch lower with no spin as @cnosil said, and they would have poor turf interaction.

I'm assuming that the shafts are steel, since that was common in 2006.  Steel shafts tend to launch lower and give less distance unless your swing speed is fairly high.  Maybe they fit you 14 years ago, but they may not now.  Properly fit graphite shafts are lighter and launch higher than steel for slower swing speeds and will give more distance.  So you could get your irons reshafted, but you will still be losing distance and accuracy to the newer technology irons.  

Your clubs need to fit your swing.  A fitter will determine what combination of club head and shaft will work best for you.  You don't have to buy new... very nice sets of irons a couple of years old can be had for half the price of new and probably about the same price as getting your irons reshafted.

Interesting,  1 to 2 dgrees bending in either direction is very very common. I do not think it changes bounce all that much. 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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Interesting,  1 to 2 dgrees bending in either direction is very very common. I do not think it changes bounce all that much. 

Yes, bending lifts is common, just not for the entire set as the original poster wanted to do for the purpose of more distance.

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

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Just now, cnosil said:


Yes, bending lifts is common, just not for the entire set as the original poster wanted to do for the purpose of more distance.

Bending the he club changes the bounce by the same amount that you bend the club. 1 degree weaker adds 1 degree of bounce.

Thank you, I was never clear on the relationship between loft and bounce.

 

It is interesting, I literally last night bent my entire set 4-w last night. Some 2 degrees stronger, some 1 degree. my goal is not really more distance but you gap my clubs better and spread out my set. It is a bit of an experiment, and we will see if it makes any practical difference. 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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It is interesting, I literally last night bent my entire set 4-w last night. Some 2 degrees stronger, some 1 degree. my goal is not really more distance but you gap my clubs better and spread out my set. It is a bit of an experiment, and we will see if it makes any practical difference. 

Why bend the entire set? Top and bottom establish the extremes and you fit the other clubs in between.

 

I did take out the part about bounce. I know it changes bounce but it may not be 1 for 1.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 minute ago, cnosil said:

Why bend the entire set? Top and bottom establish the extremes and you fit the other clubs in between.

 

I did take out the part about bounce. I know it changes bounce but it may not be 1 for 1.

Here is my reasoning, as stupid as it may be. I play an 18* cobra utility iron, then my irons are mizuno MP18 blades. I pulled the 3 iron out, bent the 4 iron and 5 iron 2* stronger, then the 6 through PW 1* stronger. Then I play a 49, 53, 58, and 64 degree wedges. It was really to pull a club out of the bag and add another, and in my mind the loft progression made sense. 

 

Again, it my be stupid and unfruitful and I may be bending them back. 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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Here is my reasoning, as stupid as it may be. I play an 18* cobra utility iron, then my irons are mizuno MP18 blades. I pulled the 3 iron out, bent the 4 iron and 5 iron 2* stronger, then the 6 through PW 1* stronger. Then I play a 49, 53, 58, and 64 degree wedges. It was really to pull a club out of the bag and add another, and in my mind the loft progression made sense. 
 
Again, it my be stupid and unfruitful and I may be bending them back. 

Hope it works for you. Preferred method it to evaluate carry distances and adjust to get consistent gapping. The loft change may or may not get you the right distances. Have to actually test.

Also, I looked it up and it is a 1:1 ratio of loft change to bounce change.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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4 minutes ago, cnosil said:


Hope it works for you. Preferred method it to evaluate carry distances and adjust to get consistent gapping. The loft change may or may not get you the right distances. Have to actually test.

Also, I looked it up and it is a 1:1 ratio of loft change to bounce change.

That is part of the fun of the game right? Experimenting and adjusting, If it does not work. Oh well, just bend them back no loss. 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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30 minutes ago, cnosil said:


Hope it works for you. Preferred method it to evaluate carry distances and adjust to get consistent gapping. The loft change may or may not get you the right distances. Have to actually test.

Also, I looked it up and it is a 1:1 ratio of loft change to bounce change.

Was hopping on here to post just that.  It is a 1:1 on loft/bounce adjustment.  Make sure you checked your lie angles afterwards too.

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... I would add while it is common to bend lofts 1* bending them 2* is usually a full 1/2 club change and is more rare. (although some modern irons have 5* gaps) Bending lofts by 2* or more is much more common. And as cnosil already mentioned, changing the bounce by more than 1* can also be a pretty drastic change. And lastly, bending irons strong increases the offset and for many players this is a big no-no. 

Edited by chisag

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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54 minutes ago, Quigleyd said:

That is part of the fun of the game right? Experimenting and adjusting, If it does not work. Oh well, just bend them back no loss. 

 

... If you are a tinkerer and have your own bending machine, this kinda thing can be a ton of fun. 30 years ago golf forums were coming up with some of the most insane ideas and experiments and while most didn't work out, it was so much fun experimenting. Good luck!

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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35 minutes ago, chisag said:

... I would add while it is common to bend lofts 1* bending them 2* is usually a full 1/2 club change and is more rare. (although some modern irons have 5* gaps) Bending lofts by 2* or more is much more common. And as cnosil already mentioned, changing the bounce by more than 1* can also be a pretty drastic change. And lastly, bending irons strong increases the offset and for any players this is a big no-no. 

I agree with that and I do not pretend to be the most knowledgeable tinkerer. With access to a lie loft machine, no harm no fuel. 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 11/7/2019 at 1:02 PM, cnosil said:

Why bend the entire set? Top and bottom establish the extremes and you fit the other clubs in between.

 

I did take out the part about bounce. I know it changes bounce but it may not be 1 for 1.

Bounce does change 1 for 1 but may or may not be detrimental.  Bending irons 2-3 degrees is pretty common and likely not going to change much of the playability.  I do generally suggest to not change the lofts just for an overall distance gain but to properly gap your golf clubs.  I have a wedge at 50* and another club at 48 with a 15 yard gap - I rest real easy at night knowing my clubs will go the distance I need with a gap of my choosing.  4 degrees between clubs is a nice starting point but after that get a predetermined gap between your clubs.  This is why is called custom fitting versus 'returning to spec." 

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  • 3 years later...
On 11/7/2019 at 2:18 PM, chisag said:

 

... If you are a tinkerer and have your own bending machine, this kinda thing can be a ton of fun. 30 years ago golf forums were coming up with some of the most insane ideas and experiments and while most didn't work out, it was so much fun experimenting. Good luck!

they dont sell your snakebite wedge in your 51*....you should bend it back to its original spec or you will have unimaginable problems...your dog will bite you and your 18 year old supermodel wife will leave you for Rupert murdoch and his billions.

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  • 1 month later...

There is a good reason why the rules allow 14 golf clubs in the bag for competition.  Changing loft and lie should be a method for fine tuning, not trying to change the character of one club to be the next.

We're also using a quantitative measure to justify the ever changing element of golfer and the golf swing produced by the same golfer under different parameters.

There is also a good reason why we all have the basic reasoning and logic built in from birth with training we could adjust and fine tune between the static measurement to the application of the measurement.

Chasing the Holy Grill is fun, I admit that I had gone through the journey myself.  Quote from an old timer 4 decades ago when he was dabble into the Champions Tour ( originally known as the Senior PGA Tour ).  He said, after a lifelong experiment with changing the spec of his golf clubs, 99.999% of all golfers could do well just playing the OEM spec.

I did not agree with his statement back then, and it's been a long but fun journey.  

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