Learning to Swing... Your swing vs Generic swing

[JAYER38]

So a little background on this.... I've tried 3 different instructors for lessons while learning this game of golf we all love(most of the time haha). I wanted to try different instructors just to see what different people had to offer and give them all an honest try. 1st has gotten me to where I am at today and learning "my swing", 2nd basically had me adjust to learn what I call a "generic swing" and I lost all the feels in the swing, the 3rd was start over with equipment settings and basics(grip/stance) to get back to the same "generic swing". So different outlooks for each as far as I can tell.

Now I know I'm not a great golfer by any means but some things just don't feel natural to me and I accept that as "that doesnt work for me"

My question to the MGS members is... What do you prefer to learn/teach? Swing your Swing or Learn the Generic swing that from what I can tell is taught by a good amount of instructors out there.

[Hacker60521]

@JAYER38 I’ll offer my thoughts but I’m not an instructor nor an “expert”. During Covid I started to pay a lot of attention to my game, and decided to tear down my swing and reboot from the ground up. One of the first things I learned is that the “generic” swing comes in many different styles (David Leadbetter taught one type of swing, then changed to “A Approach”, Mike Bennett offered “Stack and Tilt”, etc). I read a lot, watched a lot of videos, and watched a lot of golf (both men and women).

A few things I learned. First, swing mechanics are important to overall success in the game since it’s all about physics. You have to have good mechanics no matter your style of swing. Practice is much more than just banging out balls at the range. Second, find a swing style that works for you, and stick with it. There is so much information out there but it may or may not apply to you. Finally, find an instructor that seems to be a good fit for you and stick with that person to get your swing “grooved”. My instructor asked me questions about how I learn best, watched my swing, and then offered small changes along the way. 

Anyway just my thoughts. Good luck!

[cnosil]

21 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

Now I know I'm not a great golfer by any means but some things just don't feel natural to me and I accept that as "that doesnt work for me"

My question to the MGS members is... What do you prefer to learn/teach? Swing your Swing or Learn the Generic swing that from what I can tell is taught by a good amount of instructors out there.

My opinion:

if you are making changes to your swing it will never feel natural since it wasn’t what you were doing previously.  You need to practice the changes to learn what was being taught.  Part of learning new things is bad shots, missed balls, terrible feels, etc.  

now on to your question.   You need to assess how much commitment you have to “fixing” your swing based on a long term goal.   Are you just trying to tweak your swing to be a little better or are you trying to be a scratch golfer.    Seeing that you list yourself as a 28 your approach will probably be significantly different than mine.    Are you willing to spend time at the range learning, doing slow motion drills, and maybe not playing as much golf?  If you are not willing to do those things then tweak your swing to be a little more effective.   If you are, then maybe do a little more drastic changes to a more fundamentally sound swing.   I don’t thing there is such a thing as a “generic” swing as there are lots of swing approaches and people have physical limitations.  Even with those different swings there are core fundamentals that you will need to learn.   

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, JAYER38 said:

Now I know I'm not a great golfer by any means but some things just don't feel natural to me and I accept that as "that doesnt work for me"

My question to the MGS members is... What do you prefer to learn/teach? Swing your Swing or Learn the Generic swing that from what I can tell is taught by a good amount of instructors out there.

The golf swing isn’t a natural movement and what feels natural isn’t right the majority of the time. 
 

What’s the definition if a generic swing? If it’s one swing for all golfers then that’s a route that will lead to disaster. We all have different body shapes, different leverages, different mobility and flexibility.

If generic swing means to do the things all good golfers do which is to shift pressure properly in the swing, rotate the hips properly, use the wrist properly. Then this is something every should be doing and learn. Within that we have to swing our swing. That means swing within our limitations. Which is there are certain parameters where the club should be, how much the trail elbow bends, how much the wrist sets, etc. Doesn’t mean swing a bad bad swing.

Depending on what your definition of generic swing is I may agree or disagree with the comment it’s what all instructors are teaching.

[JAYER38]

2 hours ago, Hacker60521 said:

@JAYER38 I’ll offer my thoughts but I’m not an instructor nor an “expert”. During Covid I started to pay a lot of attention to my game, and decided to tear down my swing and reboot from the ground up. One of the first things I learned is that the “generic” swing comes in many different styles (David Leadbetter taught one type of swing, then changed to “A Approach”, Mike Bennett offered “Stack and Tilt”, etc). I read a lot, watched a lot of videos, and watched a lot of golf (both men and women).

A few things I learned. First, swing mechanics are important to overall success in the game since it’s all about physics. You have to have good mechanics no matter your style of swing. Practice is much more than just banging out balls at the range. Second, find a swing style that works for you, and stick with it. There is so much information out there but it may or may not apply to you. Finally, find an instructor that seems to be a good fit for you and stick with that person to get your swing “grooved”. My instructor asked me questions about how I learn best, watched my swing, and then offered small changes along the way. 

Anyway just my thoughts. Good luck!

So I really think this bring good light to the instructor side of things. Again this is opinion based and that's what I was looking for in response. Finding an instructor that works with you and helps you feel comfortable vs say rotating more than is comfortable.

 

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

My opinion:

if you are making changes to your swing it will never feel natural since it wasn’t what you were doing previously.  You need to practice the changes to learn what was being taught.  Part of learning new things is bad shots, missed balls, terrible feels, etc.  

now on to your question.   You need to assess how much commitment you have to “fixing” your swing based on a long term goal.   Are you just trying to tweak your swing to be a little better or are you trying to be a scratch golfer.    Seeing that you list yourself as a 28 your approach will probably be significantly different than mine.    Are you willing to spend time at the range learning, doing slow motion drills, and maybe not playing as much golf?  If you are not willing to do those things then tweak your swing to be a little more effective.   If you are, then maybe do a little more drastic changes to a more fundamentally sound swing.   I don’t thing there is such a thing as a “generic” swing as there are lots of swing approaches and people have physical limitations.  Even with those different swings there are core fundamentals that you will need to learn.   

I very much see your point here. And yes I truly am a high handicapper (25-28ish). I do my best to use my sim or the range 2-3x a week and do drills and learn vs just hitting golf balls. I have a goal to break 90 this year.

Now once again this is all opinion atleast from me so I've learned less is more in my case. Not doing the same thing over and over, and learning my divots depths/directions, ball flight, face impact, weight shifts, etc. Alot of detail in a golf swing that a 1hr lesson doesnt cover when someone wants you to basically start over. Worst before better of course.

 

51 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The golf swing isn’t a natural movement and what feels natural isn’t right the majority of the time. 
 

What’s the definition if a generic swing? If it’s one swing for all golfers then that’s a route that will lead to disaster. We all have different body shapes, different leverages, different mobility and flexibility.

If generic swing means to do the things all good golfers do which is to shift pressure properly in the swing, rotate the hips properly, use the wrist properly. Then this is something every should be doing and learn. Within that we have to swing our swing. That means swing within our limitations. Which is there are certain parameters where the club should be, how much the trail elbow bends, how much the wrist sets, etc. Doesn’t mean swing a bad bad swing.

Depending on what your definition of generic swing is I may agree or disagree with the comment it’s what all instructors are teaching.

All in all I wish I knew how to better say this but by generic I mean "same position, same hip turn, same wrist position, same knee bend, etc. Yes we should all copy Rory, Tommy, Phil, etc. But you don't hear alot about a Rahm or Bubba Watson type swing/setup who have different approach to the game then the normal and obviously those are more outside the box id say but still person the same actions.

I more or less mean if I feel I cant comfortable making that massive turn why not compensate in some other area to work with me instead? Or if my wrist has bow in it and that's where I'm comfortable what else can be changed to help that be part of my swing?

Again to @cnosil point I believe you have to be realistic with your goals of golf and how good your trying to become here so this is all just for discussion and opinion

[cnosil]

11 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

Finding an instructor that works with you and helps you feel comfortable vs say rotating more than is comfortable.

Now once again this is all opinion atleast from me so I've learned less is more in my case. Not doing the same thing over and over, and learning my divots depths/directions, ball flight, face impact, weight shifts, etc. Alot of detail in a golf swing that a 1hr lesson doesnt cover when someone wants you to basically start over. 

All in all I wish I knew how to better say this but by generic I mean "same position, same hip turn, same wrist position, same knee bend, etc. Yes we should all copy Rory, Tommy, Phil, etc. But you don't hear alot about a Rahm or Bubba Watson type swing/setup who have different approach to the game then the normal and obviously those are more outside the box id say but still person the same actions.

I more or less mean if I feel I cant comfortable making that massive turn why not compensate in some other area to work with me instead? Or if my wrist has bow in it and that's where I'm comfortable what else can be changed to help that be part of my swing?

When you say”comfortable” are you implying painful or something you can’t physically accomplish?  Or a this doesn’t feel right?   If the first then you need to communicate limitation with the instructor.   
 

your second paragraph implies that you want to just try different things to see what works.  There are people that do that and have been successful doing that.  
 

we should not copy Rory, Tommy, Phil, tc.  They are all different people with different physical attributes.  However, even with differences, there are things that they all do to make an effective swing.  
 

to me it sounds like you want to do specific things in your swing because it is what you do now and you are comfortable doing them.  Often doing these things put you in a position that makes accomplishing the swing harder because you have to make compensations and aren’t reliable in making those compensations.  My guess is The instructor is trying to simplify and make the swing easier.  That said, lessons require communication and if the are specific things you want to do tell the instructor.   The instructor may work with those things or tell you that they can’t help you.   

[RickyBobby_PR]

23 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

All in all I wish I knew how to better say this but by generic I mean "same position, same hip turn, same wrist position, same knee bend, etc. Yes we should all copy Rory, Tommy, Phil, etc. But you don't hear alot about a Rahm or Bubba Watson type swing/setup who have different approach to the game then the normal and obviously those are more outside the box id say but still person the same actions.

Then I disagree with your notion to an extent that a good number are teaching generic swings. There are some that teach a single swing to all the students and they aren’t good instructors and some teach their idea of a swing to all students also not a good instructor. A good instructor understands the capabilities of the student and works with them to make better swings within their capabilities.

Nobody should copy the swing of the pros. What should be copied is how they move which as I mentioned is the proper sequencing of the swing. Many of the pros have matchups that work for them with their swing and copying that isn’t going to help a golfer get better. They each have uniqueness to their swings and their own compensations but what that all do is to be in similar positions from p5-p7.

Bubba is self taught and does what he’s worked his entire life on. Rahm has limitations which is why he swings to point in swing that he does, otherwise he loses control.

29 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

I more or less mean if I feel I cant comfortable making that massive turn why not compensate in some other area to work with me instead? Or if my wrist has bow in it and that's where I'm comfortable what else can be changed to help that be part of my swing?

If you can’t make massive turn then don’t and if an instructor is trying to get you do something you can’t move on from that instructor. Some people can only get the club til 10 o clock and that’s ok, good golf and speed can be had from there. Getting to 90° shoulder turn isn’t as important as people think. 
 

There should be now in the wrist. It doesn’t have to be DJ level bow but at the top of the swing the wrist should be at least flat for most people or slight bow then some added bowing aka flexion in get transition. But there are matchups that have to be accounted for.

32 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

Again to @cnosil point I believe you have to be realistic with your goals of golf and how good your trying to become here so this is all just for discussion and opinion

Agree to an extent. One has to determine how much time they have to practice and learn what they are taught in a lesson and that depending on that the time to improve is going to be different for each. To make a change in movement pattern takes weeks to months to years. There will be gradual improvement over time assuming the person is doing proper practice and eventually the movement will become more natural and while that happens it still has to be worked on.

There is nothing wrong with setting a goal and like with anything there has to be checkpoints along the way. Sayin I want to be scratch by the end of the year for a mid to high handicap that can only practice once a week and play once a week as an example that goal isn’t going to be realistic. But goals to not lose as many balls, reduce the number mishits on chips, etc are good goals to focus on along the way.

Lastly patience is key because it takes time to make a change. It took Justin rose 11 years before something he was working on finally clicked. He made progress on it over that time but it took that long before it was there on a regular basis

[JAYER38]

26 minutes ago, cnosil said:

When you say”comfortable” are you implying painful or something you can’t physically accomplish?  Or a this doesn’t feel right?   If the first then you need to communicate limitation with the instructor.   
 

your second paragraph implies that you want to just try different things to see what works.  There are people that do that and have been successful doing that.  
 

we should not copy Rory, Tommy, Phil, tc.  They are all different people with different physical attributes.  However, even with differences, there are things that they all do to make an effective swing.  
 

to me it sounds like you want to do specific things in your swing because it is what you do now and you are comfortable doing them.  Often doing these things put you in a position that makes accomplishing the swing harder because you have to make compensations and aren’t reliable in making those compensations.  My guess is The instructor is trying to simplify and make the swing easier.  That said, lessons require communication and if the are specific things you want to do tell the instructor.   The instructor may work with those things or tell you that they can’t help you.   

I was trying to stay more general then just myself as I wanted everyone to be able to read this and possibly relate to the topic. I myself do not have the flexibility to get say my left shoulder over my right foot without my back hurting. Could this be worked out doing mobility for months? Yes I'm sure, but if I'm just a weekend/social golfer why would I? Maybe if I was already going to the gym I could add that in but I think that is when it lifestyle and the type of golfer you want to be comes into play.

Again not really about myself and my swing but just general talk to get opinions and conversation about it. Alot of videos you see or people you talk to often mention a pro and saying "do it like Rory" or "ball position should be" and that can make it tough on the up and coming high handicapper trying to learn but cant get those positions to work for them. A rabbit hole of sorts

@RickyBobby_PR  so I don't have a massive reply going haha. Skipping to the end I do agree communication & having a realistic goal of not just a scoring number but playable balls, fairways hit, putts made from XX distance, or just less mishits is key to getting better and keeping the game fun. All very good points you have pointed out and exactly what I was hoping for in this thread. 

This all comes from my out look and the few lessons I've taken along with the friends I've made and listening to them along there journey thru this game. You forsure cant rush anything in this game and I'm very appreciative of the playing ability I've gained in my short time in this game.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

I myself do not have the flexibility to get say my left shoulder over my right foot without my back hurting. Could this be worked out doing mobility for months?

Or maybe it’s not moving properly in the golf swing and can be taught by a good instructor to happen or to get you closer to being able to do if. Or maybe you don’t need to at all depending on what else is going on in how you swing. This is what good instructors do and why a generic swing isn’t good for all golfers

12 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

Again not really about myself and my swing but just general talk to get opinions and conversation about it. Alot of videos you see or people you talk to often mention a pro and saying "do it like Rory" or "ball position should be" and that can make it tough on the up and coming high handicapper trying to learn but cant get those positions to work for them. A rabbit hole of sorts

This is why YouTube videos and such are bad. Someone who format understand the swing and what they are doing what they are doing goes looking for a quick fix and usually makes things worse or best case remains the same. The golf swing is complicated, trying to teach oneself is asking for problems and delayed progress if any at all.

Anyone saying do it like Rory should be moved on from. Now if they are saying here’s how Rory gets his speed/power, or see how Rory shifts pressure in the takeaway or in transition then listen. It doesn’t mean to do it exactly like Rory because nobody is Rory. But if you aren’t doing it and you start doing it slowly over time you will get better at doing it and improving.

14 minutes ago, JAYER38 said:

Yes I'm sure, but if I'm just a weekend/social golfer why would I? Maybe if I was already going to the gym I could add that in but I think that is when it lifestyle and the type of golfer you want to be comes into play

The weekend/social golfer is one that really has to tamper expectations. One can improve their scores as they learn course management eliminate the number of blow up holes but without practice to improve the swing there are going to be good days and bad days. Maybe just being out and playing with friends and enjoying a day on the course is wha

[cksurfdude]

Std Disclaimer: I am not a golf instructor and I don't play one on TV.

But @JAYER38 fwiw I'm a fellow hi handicapper also looking to improve - lessons, practice, exercise, yoga & flexibility.

Really excellent comments above, and I would repeat...

What are you looking to accomplish?

.. eg. Do you want a textbook pretty swing? Do you want to get around a course in fewer strokes (ie fewer wasted strokes)?

These may, or may not, be compatible goals.

Either way *your* goal must be communicated to the instructor .. before starting a lesson. A dialogue / almost interview can be really helpful to see if you think their teaching will help you towards your goal(s).

I'm also, as others, surmising that "generic swing" refers to a method teacher - of which there are many - that have their own specific methodology of teaching that fits their interpretation of a good golf swing.

Any one of these many methods may .. or may not .. work for you.

That's why so many responses, including mine, feel it's important to find that instructor who works with you and what you currently have to find that "something" that can help you improve your swing .. and help you move towards your goal(s).

 

Edited March 13 by cksurfdude
tipo tappo typo

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Std Disclaimer: I

Bit did you stay at a holiday inn last night

[cksurfdude]

9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Bit did you stay at a holiday inn last night

Holiday Inn Express

[Goober]

“The golf swing is maybe the most un natural feeling motion I’ve ever done athletically.If it feels natural.  I can assure you I’m doing it wrong” Bing Crosby 
 

“its like the bizarro world in super man”  anonymous hacker 

“if you do opposite of what you always done in your swing. You will have made the perfect swing” Ben Hogan 

“Why did I even take up this game” 90% of handicap golfers 

 

be honest with yourself and the instructor.If your a weekend warrior don’t expect a miracle.Tell the instructor how much time you have available to make the changes.Any instructor should be able to accommodate you  

Edited March 15 by Goober

[downlowkey]

I recently stumbled across an episode of the Smylie Show that made me think about the question that @JAYER38 originally posed in this thread. In the episode below, GEARS inventor, Michael Neff, spent over an hour discussing fundamentals of a few notable swingers of the golf club. Neff really, really knows his stuff and I thought it was one of the more engaging deep dives exploring the relationship between an individual’s swing tendencies and their most repeatable delivery patterns (aka - learning to swing your swing). I’m not a total newb when it comes to swing theory but personally came away with what feels like a more complete understanding of a few different aspects of the golf swing. It also made me want to schedule a GEARS session.

I tend to agree with @cnosil and @RickyBobby_PR, that finding an instructor who recognizes the role of personal aspirations/practice ethic in designing a path forward and setting expectations is crucial. If that conversation isn’t a component of your first experience with a new instructor, keep shopping.