How'd you play?

[jbern]

I was able to get out yesterday and enjoy the rare 55* and sunny day on the golf course. I was so happy to be outside playing on grass and overall, I was pleased with my driving, irons and shots from 40-100 yds. I did not chip or putt very well until the last 3 holes. I had two triples, one was a lost ball combined with a 4 putt and the other was a bunker that I couldn't get out of.

Ended up shooting a 13 over 85. Stats below.

Fairways: 9/14

Greens-in-Regulation: 8/18 

Putts: 37

Penalties: 2 (lost balls)

 

On another note, my playing partner shot a +7, 79, which was his personal best score! I was very happy for him and especially happy that we weren't playing for money because with his handicap he would've smoked me! 

 

 

[Syks7]

2 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Congratulations on your new personal best. And I'm glad you had a great day.

To you as well.  Always feels amazing to have a great day on the course.

[Jim Shaw]

8 hours ago, Syks7 said:

Well, it didn't feel like I was playing lights out, but my score would say otherwise.  40/39 79 at Rustic Canyon.  2nd time under 80.  I felt relaxed, collected, and in command.  It matches my low score and its a definitive personal best from a differential perspective -- 6.1.  I was in command enough of my game enough that I tried and converted a couple Scottie Scheffler low driven bump and runs off the face of the steep slopes in front of the green.   Saved bogey once and got up and down on another.  They started us on 10 because of wet conditions on the course if I'm being honest it felt easier playing the back 9 first.  Having front 9 energy in the hillier back 9 made a difference.  Instead of 10 straight holes headed mostly uphill that chunk got broken up and with 5 uphill to start, 8 downill, then 5 uphill.   

This one feels way better than the first time I broke 80, because I didn't pressure myself at all.  I just enjoyed the day.   I noticed where I was with 6 to play and thought to myself, "well if I par out this will be an awesome day."  Then didn't think about it again.  I went +1 through the last 6 including closing with 4 straight pars.

On the front 9 (back today) all three bogeys were lipped out up and downs to save par.   I hit 11/14 fairways 9/18 Greens and had 34 putts.  The number of putts doesn't tell the hole story, I hit some beautiful very long lag putts today -- the best being 75' from the collar on 18 to virtual tap in range at 2'.   Longer putts didn't miss by much and I had virtually no cleanup left.  I probably only made 30' of putts today.     Sneaky good, but it doesn't look quite as cool as 100+ feet.    I also had a great day with wedges in hand. 

The only thing to complain about was pace of play.  It's been very rainy and today was walking only.  No big deal for me since I almost always walk, but terrible for the older guys who never do.  Lot's bailed, but some stuck it out and boy did they struggle.    5.25 hours and I thought I might have to call EMS for the two guys in the threesome we were following -- they were absolutely gassed.  

what a great post, sounds like your short game is on the mark, keep it going...

[Syks7]

6 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

what a great post, sounds like your short game is on the mark, keep it going...

Thank you.   The biggest things with it have been recent mental discoveries...  realizing that I have way more control and less risk playing when I play it low it low and realizing that there just aren't that many situations where I need to play it high.   Those bumps off the slopes yesterday felt way less intimidating to stand over than I a higher swing speed flop off a tight lie.

[NubianRugby]

It was a big OOF for the first round of 2024, but that's to be expected after bad traffic and going out cold turkey.

Shot 56 for 9 on my home course. I was getting off the tee OK and then duffing approach shots with 4-7 irons. On a day like today obviously no putts were dropping, greens had just been punched (totally the problem) and some greens were very slow and others were way faster than expected. 

I was slicing badly the whole round when I got sloppy on my setup but hitting a nice fade when I got locked in and had the right swing thoughts. Still managed to hit 2 greens in regulation and squandered them with 3 putts.

[Rob Person]

12 minutes ago, NubianRugby said:

It was a big OOF for the first round of 2024, but that's to be expected after bad traffic and going out cold turkey.

Shot 56 for 9 on my home course. I was getting off the tee OK and then duffing approach shots with 4-7 irons. On a day like today obviously no putts were dropping, greens had just been punched (totally the problem) and some greens were very slow and others were way faster than expected. 

I was slicing badly the whole round when I got sloppy on my setup but hitting a nice fade when I got locked in and had the right swing thoughts. Still managed to hit 2 greens in regulation and squandered them with 3 putts.

Is that the courses own app? Cool that they have the option to mark each holes progress report.  The RTJ app has so.e features,  but none that advanced 

[sirchunksalot]

@Rob Person @Syks7 congratulations to both of you for putting up great rounds this week!

[NubianRugby]

3 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Is that the courses own app? Cool that they have the option to mark each holes progress report.  The RTJ app has so.e features,  but none that advanced 

I have a Bushnell Bluetooth speaker and app. You download the course and it gives you GPS distances and you record your score in the app, I think you can use it without the speaker and just use the app.

[Rob Person]

18 minutes ago, NubianRugby said:

I have a Bushnell Bluetooth speaker and app. You download the course and it gives you GPS distances and you record your score in the app, I think you can use it without the speaker and just use the app.

My brother has something like that. Dont know if its the same

It displayed the yardage on the speaker lcd screen, and he even had it programmed for phrases after each good or bad shot  

[THE GOLF GUY]

My last 4 rounds with a wet course and lots of wind (15-30 mph).

Edited February 10 by THE GOLF GUY

[Peaksy68]

Very unexciting round. 6 over playing off 7. Drove it okay, didn’t hit a lot of fairways but only one bad miss. Didn’t hit a lot of greens in regulation but only one in 2 worse than regulation. Chipped okay, nothing really close but nothing bad. Putted solidly but didn’t make anything over 5 feet until the 16th, holed a 20 foot putt for my only birdie of the round. Pleased with my score despite not doing anything particularly well.

There might be a lesson in that for me

[Jim Shaw]

Well, I had a great day on the course today...

Played with a couple of really good golfers today and I was low man with a 73...

Hit 11 fairways, 15 greens and 33 putts.

One of the players said to me "you putt like Lorne Roberts" well there is a name I haven't heard of for a long time, the boss of the moss....

I am feeling good about that... I putted way better today, I worked on my rhythm and the greens were running 10.5 so once I got the speed down it was great...

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said:

Hit 11 fairways, 15 greens and 33 putts.

One of the players said to me "you putt like Lorne Roberts" well there is a name I haven't heard of for a long time, the boss of the moss....

I am feeling good about that... I putted way better today, I worked on my rhythm and the greens were running 10.5 so once I got the speed down it was great...

Dumb question from me.  Two days ago you were 15 greens and 33 putts and thought your putting was going downhill. Today was the same 15/33 but you putted better.   What was the difference?  

[William P]

1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said:

Played with a couple of really good golfers today and I was low man with a 73...

Hit 11 fairways, 15 greens and 33 putts.

One of the players said to me "you putt like Lorne Roberts" well there is a name I haven't heard of for a long time, the boss of the moss....

I am feeling good about that... I putted way better today, I worked on my rhythm and the greens were running 10.5 so once I got the speed down it was great...

First of all NICE!!!

Ditto what @cnosil said. 

[Jim Shaw]

36 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Dumb question from me.  Two days ago you were 15 greens and 33 putts and thought your putting was going downhill. Today was the same 15/33 but you putted better.   What was the difference?  

you never ask dumb questions buddy... two days ago I was missing my line, the ball wasn't rolling true, missing 3-4 footers for birdies, no confidence, today totally different, I am standing up straighter, finding my line and hitting it, (at least today) the greens were running at 10.5 and the 1st 3 holes I lipped out and ran 3-4 feet past the hole, after hole 1 and a rhythmic stroke it went in, hole 2 the same thing, and hole 3 so just built momentum from there, now I have something to build on. 

Had a great back and forth with Scott Krahl, he played at Western University and played on the canadian tour, anyway he was commenting on how i was hitting so many fairways and I said "my game usually goes as my putting goes" and he turned to me and says "all of ours does". it is good to have your visions validated by someone with Cred...

36 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Dumb question from me.  Two days ago you were 15 greens and 33 putts and thought your putting was going downhill. Today was the same 15/33 but you putted better.   What was the difference?  

 

[cnosil]

2 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

you never ask dumb questions buddy... two days ago I was missing my line, the ball wasn't rolling true, missing 3-4 footers for birdies, no confidence, today totally different, I am standing up straighter, finding my line and hitting it, (at least today) the greens were running at 10.5 and the 1st 3 holes I lipped out and ran 3-4 feet past the hole, after hole 1 and a rhythmic stroke it went in, hole 2 the same thing, and hole 3 so just built momentum from there, now I have something to build on. 

Had a great back and forth with Scott Krahl, he played at Western University and played on the canadian tour, anyway he was commenting on how i was hitting so many fairways and I said "my game usually goes as my putting goes" and he turned to me and says "all of ours does". it is good to have your visions validated by someone with Cred...

 

So my next comment would be that a few days ago you said you don't do any post putt analysis;  the above is exactly why I do post putt analysis....am I hitting intended line, is my rhythm right, setup/posture, etc.   The things you mentioned are some of the basic foundations of putting like stroke, aim, and touch and I would think that being able to recognize when they are off would be something you would want to assess mid round.   

[PrismFlopper]

Beautiful 60ish degree day in February in MA. Course was a little damp and greens were…… interesting to putt on but cant beat it. 

 

Edited February 11 by PrismFlopper

[Jim Shaw]

13 hours ago, cnosil said:

So my next comment would be that a few days ago you said you don't do any post putt analysis;  the above is exactly why I do post putt analysis....am I hitting intended line, is my rhythm right, setup/posture, etc.   The things you mentioned are some of the basic foundations of putting like stroke, aim, and touch and I would think that being able to recognize when they are off would be something you would want to assess mid round.   

Putting is, how do I say... complicated...

I read something a while back, maybe it was you or @chisagthat resonated with me in regards to putting, something like "you hit the wall with putting earlier than any other part of the golf game"

That actually made it easier for me as I know, alinement, speed, rhythm, and most of all confidence, there are only so many "parts" that we can work on.... 

Today was a real confidence builder.

Upon further review, the reason I came away with a positive feel of my putting yesterday was as follows..

1- had a 15 foot downhill putt, lipped it out and rolled 4 feet past, made the combacker

2- same scenario, had a 20 foot downhill putt, lipped out to about 4 feet, made the combacker

3-hit my approach to the fringe off the back, misread the 15 foot putt, missed it 3 feet to the right, made the par putt.

4-Hit it to 20 feet, left to right slider, rolled it to an inch

5-pretty mundane

6-missed this 210 yd par 3 to the the left, chipped it to 20 feet, made the putt for par

7- very slopped green, missed it above the hole, 3 putt

8- number 1 stroke hole, long second shot uphill into the fan, 3 tiered green, pin set in the small part of the hourglass second tier, my approach ended up on the top shelf, had to putt 90 degrees to the hole, have the ball basically stop on the crest and trundle down to the hole, anything too hard would have rolled to the bottom tier, anything short I would have left it on the top tier, knocked the putt to 2 inches.

9- par 5, hit my 50 yd wedge 40 yds so had 25-30 feet for birdie, knocked it in for an even par 36 on the front. 

Just an example of what a great putting day it was and it continued on the back but don't want to bore you with the details lol...

Edited February 11 by Jim Shaw

[BallsLeon]

Got to play outside again yesterday at Swope Memorial GC, a classic KC municipal course created by A.W. Tillinghast in 1934 and once host to the PGA Tour Kansas City Open. Winter conditions and the course has seen better years over the decades, but the green complexes seem to be true to Tillinghast's original design: small, multi-leveled, firm, and often well protected by bunkers. Fairways were surprisingly still super-saturated from rain a week or so ago, but greens were like concrete not even making ball marks. Temps were in the 40s, had some sun at the beginning of the round but clouds hid it away by the back 9.

Walked the course, and was accompanied by three other walkers who are regulars here and made for great company. Played from the White tees (Par 72, 5770yds, 68.7/125) and shot 107 (54 front, 53 back) with only one lost ball and 39 putts. Not my best stuff today, my game was more like bocce than golf. Struggled most on tee/green, probably only 3 drives I really liked today, and the greens were just really challenging with all the levels and how fast they were.

Still managed to have a lot of fun out there: made some new friends, keeping expectations low, got my steps in, nearly birdied 14, and finally connected with 3i on eighteen sparking hope for the next round haha.

Edited February 11 by BallsLeon

[chisag]

13 hours ago, cnosil said:

So my next comment would be that a few days ago you said you don't do any post putt analysis;  the above is exactly why I do post putt analysis....am I hitting intended line, is my rhythm right, setup/posture, etc.   The things you mentioned are some of the basic foundations of putting like stroke, aim, and touch and I would think that being able to recognize when they are off would be something you would want to assess mid round.   

 

... So in the vein of the continuing education of a feel player, I gotta ask how does a post putt analysis help you? It seems like everything would be obvious. We all want to have correct posture for our individual stroke, make the right read and roll the ball on the right line with the right speed. If we don't, isn't it obvious when it happens? I rarely miss my line but I am sure it happens. I do miss my speed sometimes, especially coming up short on a makable putt. I don't know how a post putt analysis would help other than confirming what I already know, I needed to hit 2 putts with more speed. I knew it when I saw them stop short and I still knew it after the round.

... I am a die in the hole putter so coming up short is just part of the equation for me because obviously I am not a machine and I am gonna come up short sometimes. That said I rarely roll a ball with too much speed leaving me anymore than a 1 to 2 foot come back putt. I believe for my putting here in AZ, the closer I get to the hole the more speed I need. This has been an adjustment for me because putts don't slam on the brakes or make a hard turn as they lose their speed on Bent grass greens like they do on Bermuda. 

...  If you missed your line 4 times in one round and 7 times in another round you still know you need to do a better job of starting the ball on your line right? If you were both too long and too short you need to do a better job with your speed right? So the question really is what do you learn post round that you didn't already know during the round? I always enjoy you perspective. 

[Jim Shaw]

5 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... So in the vein of the continuing education of a feel player, I gotta ask how does a post putt analysis help you? It seems like everything would be obvious. We all want to have correct posture for our individual stroke, make the right read and roll the ball on the right line with the right speed. If we don't, isn't it obvious when it happens? I rarely miss my line but I am sure it happens. I do miss my speed sometimes, especially coming up short on a makable putt. I don't know how a post putt analysis would help other than confirming what I already know, I needed to hit 2 putts with more speed. I knew it when I saw them stop short and I still knew it after the round.

... I am a die in the hole putter so coming up short is just part of the equation for me because obviously I am not a machine and I am gonna come up short sometimes. That said I rarely roll a ball with too much speed leaving me anymore than a 1 to 2 foot come back putt. I believe for my putting here in AZ, the closer I get to the hole the more speed I need. This has been an adjustment for me because putts don't slam on the brakes or make a hard turn as they lose their speed on Bent grass greens like they do on Bermuda. 

...  If you missed your line 4 times in one round and 7 times in another round you still know you need to do a better job of starting the ball on your line right? If you were both too long and too short you need to do a better job with your speed right? So the question really is what do you learn post round that you didn't already know during the round? I always enjoy you perspective. 

and adding to that, each green complex is unique, so to do a post putt critique would be exhausting for me mentally, "did I miss the line or misread the break, grain, speed, etc, etc, I am not a fan of post putt critique, post round yes... 

[Javs]

11 minutes ago, chisag said:

... I am a die in the hole putter so coming up short is just part of the equation for me because obviously I am not a machine and I am gonna come up short sometimes. That said I rarely roll a ball with too much speed leaving me anymore than a 1 to 2 foot come back putt. I believe for my putting here in AZ, the closer I get to the hole the more speed I need. This has been an adjustment for me because putts don't slam on the brakes or make a hard turn as they lose their speed on Bent grass greens like they do on Bermuda. 

I used to be a die in the hole putter till I moved to Texas. The greens here (like you described for Az) require more speed at the hole. If not, slow putts near the hole get the soccer field effect and will fall away from the hole. I have gone to the Pelz theory of enough speed to go 18 inches past the hole. This seems to have worked. I have made more putts here using the Pelz method. 

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... So in the vein of the continuing education of a feel player, I gotta ask how does a post putt analysis help you? It seems like everything would be obvious. We all want to have correct posture for our individual stroke, make the right read and roll the ball on the right line with the right speed. If we don't, isn't it obvious when it happens? I rarely miss my line but I am sure it happens. I do miss my speed sometimes, especially coming up short on a makable putt. I don't know how a post putt analysis would help other than confirming what I already know, I needed to hit 2 putts with more speed. I knew it when I saw them stop short and I still knew it after the round.

... I am a die in the hole putter so coming up short is just part of the equation for me because obviously I am not a machine and I am gonna come up short sometimes. That said I rarely roll a ball with too much speed leaving me anymore than a 1 to 2 foot come back putt. I believe for my putting here in AZ, the closer I get to the hole the more speed I need. This has been an adjustment for me because putts don't slam on the brakes or make a hard turn as they lose their speed on Bent grass greens like they do on Bermuda. 

...  If you missed your line 4 times in one round and 7 times in another round you still know you need to do a better job of starting the ball on your line right? If you were both too long and too short you need to do a better job with your speed right? So the question really is what do you learn post round that you didn't already know during the round? I always enjoy you perspective. 

When putting there is knowledge of how to putt and knowledge of results.   We practice technique to build feels and bring those feels to the course.   Putting is based on aim, stroke, touch, and read.  Prior to a round we work on the first; skills in how to putt and we make assessments/changes based on the results we are seeing.   During a round,  we aren't working on skills but trying to understand the results and wanting to make sure we are doing our skills correctly.   I personally think the best way to be consistent is to do the same thing every time (kind of the definition of mechanical)  However, we aren't perfect and our instincts help out when the stroke gets a little off to try and help us accomplish our goal (feel) 

• Read can be "feel", but it is really based on the physics of how a ball rolls on an inclined plane.  Given a slope and speed it will curve some amount.  Players use some method to estimate the slope and speed.  During the round it is possible for the speed to change or for me to have incorrectly assessed the speed based on the practice green.  If my putts are breaking across the baseline and going below the hole consistently,  I probably need to change my read, speed, or both.   
• Based on a read I aim the putter down the line I want to start the putt (as you have said, all putts are straight);  are you consistently setting the  putter behind the ball with the correct aim?   
• Strokes are basically a physical/body mechanics thing.  we need to understand the mechanics of how the body moves to effectively have good rhythm and move the putter consistently to start the ball online.  Are you rotating your hands a little too much, did you lift up during the stroke, are you delivering the putter flat to the ground, straight, and hitting the ball in the correct spot?   You say these are feel things, but what you feel is when your mechanics are on or a bit off.   
• Touch is that you should have a consistent tempo for all length putts.  No,  we aren't robots and some putts will be short of the hole and some will be past the hole.  The length of stroke is calculated based on how our minds process the distance,  we are generally pretty good doing this skill if we don't get in our way,  but long and short putts could be the result of a rhythm that is a little to slow or gets a little too quick.   You have said it quite often,  look at the hole and your body will know what to do.  

 @Jim Shaw indicated in one of his responses:  "I am standing up straighter, finding my line and hitting it, (at least today) the greens were running at 10.5 and the 1st 3 holes I lipped out and ran 3-4 feet past the hole"   This to me indicates a struggle with the core basic fundamentals of putting:  setup issues, aim issues, and touch issues, and potentially read issues.   Do you want to continue that for 18 holes or do you want to start mid round to possibly understand/adapt to possibly play better? You said above "isn't it obvious when it happens";  I read his response as it wasn't obvious to him that he was doing those things during the entire round..  For it to be "obvious" doesn't there have to be some kind of assessment or thought based on results?  

In your last paragraph,  I am not saying not to do post round results evaluation as that drives what skills need to be practiced in more depth.  The bigger question is do you continue with something being "off" during the round or do you wait until the next or next several rounds to try and understand?  If I am under reading putts,  I am going to do some kind of assessment to try and improve during that round.  For example, why would I want to continue to under read putts for an entire round? How many holes would you continue to under read breaks before making a change?

Edited February 11 by cnosil

[chisag]

34 minutes ago, Javs said:

I used to be a die in the hole putter till I moved to Texas. The greens here (like you described for Az) require more speed at the hole. If not, slow putts near the hole get the soccer field effect and will fall away from the hole. I have gone to the Pelz theory of enough speed to go 18 inches past the hole. This seems to have worked. I have made more putts here using the Pelz method. 

 

... I wish I could rewire my brain. I had a fitting with Kevin Weeks at Cog Hill in IL. He works with lots of Pro's and is a putting guru. He watched me hit putts and measured everything. He wanted me to roll the ball 2' past the hole. Everything about my putting suffered. After a few more experiments he told me he rarely gives this advice, but I should continue to be a die in the hole putter. Some golfers are just mentally wired to see the line and speed as dying in the hole and attempting to change that doesn't work for them. Several on tour were the same and Kevin said I will probably make more putts that drop in the side of the hole than hitting the edge with more speed and lipping out or rolling past. The flip side is I will miss some rolling off the hole from the volcano effect of either improper pin installment or people stepping right next to the hole all day. So it is a wash and since I had a repeatable stroke, good speed and a consistent path and face angle dying the ball in the hole, I should just stay with it. 

... That said as we both found out, it just doesn't work well with short makable putts on grainy Bermuda. So I have compromised and have concentrated on being more aggressive inside 6 feet, unless it is a downhill or big side breaking putt. Past 6 feet I continue dying the ball in the hole. 

[chisag]

6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

• Read can be "feel", but it is really based on the physics of how a ball rolls on an inclined plane.  Given a slope and speed it will curve some amount.  Players use some method to estimate the slope and speed.  During the round it is possible for the speed to change or for me to have incorrectly assessed the speed based on the practice green.  If my putts are breaking across the baseline and going below the hole consistently,  I probably need to change my read, speed, or both.   
• Based on a read I aim the putter down the line I want to start the putt (as you have said, all putts are straight);  are you consistently setting the  putter behind the ball with the correct aim?   
• Strokes are basically a physical/body mechanics thing.  we need to understand the mechanics of how the body moves to effectively have good rhythm and move the putter consistently to start the ball online.  Are you rotating your hands a little too much, did you lift up during the stroke, are you delivering the putter flat to the ground, straight, and hitting the ball in the correct spot?   You say these are feel things, but what you feel is when your mechanics are on or a bit off.   
• Touch is that you should have a consistent tempo for all length putts.  No,  we aren't robots and some putts will be short of the hole and some will be past the hole.  The length of stroke is calculated based on how our minds process the distance,  we are generally pretty good doing this skill if we don't get in our way,  but long and short putts could be the result of a rhythm that is a little to slow or gets a little too quick.   You have said it quite often,  look at the hole and your body will know what to do.  

 

... Thanks and always interesting stuff amigo. I am lucky and may sound like a cocky azz sometimes talking about putting but I just have excellent natural spacial awareness. It is the reason I was a good QB and 3 point jump shooter. It came natural for me. Yes it took lots of work and practice to fine tune natural spacial ability but I had a natural head start. Since it is a natural gift, I don't second guess myself and just trust my intuition.

... I would add this is for putting only. I am like everyone else and struggle with the full swing and have gone through changes over the years. I played 4 rounds under par last week with my swing feeling effortless and then the next 2 rounds were a struggle and everything about my swing felt a little off. The entire round was a struggle and I spent most of it getting up and down. But for me putting is so simple just rolling a ball a specific distance on a specific line and I have never changed anything about my putting stroke in 40 years of playing. Since I have never changed anything, I find it easy to be repeatable with stance and stroke, although like everyone I have days where everything goes in and others where I seem to burn the edges and putts just don't fall.  But my speed is always consistent and I next to never 3 putt because I have a tap in from most every distance. Again, I think I am just lucky to have a natural feel for speed. 

... One of my pards is a streaky putter and often strokes a putt and immediately says "Pulled it" and starts walking after his pulled putt before it even gets to the hole. I don't know what goes on in his head to do that other than anxiety or working on his stroke, which he changes from time to time. But I just think that should never happen. It is a short stroke from under 6 feet and you may miss it but with thousands of stroked putts on your carpet at home over and over again and I don't see how a pulled or pushed putt can happen from such a short distance. 

[Jim Shaw]

35 minutes ago, cnosil said:

When putting there is knowledge of how to putt and knowledge of results.   We practice technique to build feels and bring those feels to the course.   Putting is based on aim, stroke, touch, and read.  Prior to a round we work on the first; skills in how to putt and we make assessments/changes based on the results we are seeing.   During a round,  we aren't working on skills but trying to understand the results and wanting to make sure we are doing our skills correctly.   I personally think the best way to be consistent is to do the same thing every time (kind of the definition of mechanical)  However, we aren't perfect and our instincts help out when the stroke gets a little off to try and help us accomplish our goal (feel) 

• Read can be "feel", but it is really based on the physics of how a ball rolls on an inclined plane.  Given a slope and speed it will curve some amount.  Players use some method to estimate the slope and speed.  During the round it is possible for the speed to change or for me to have incorrectly assessed the speed based on the practice green.  If my putts are breaking across the baseline and going below the hole consistently,  I probably need to change my read, speed, or both.   
• Based on a read I aim the putter down the line I want to start the putt (as you have said, all putts are straight);  are you consistently setting the  putter behind the ball with the correct aim?   
• Strokes are basically a physical/body mechanics thing.  we need to understand the mechanics of how the body moves to effectively have good rhythm and move the putter consistently to start the ball online.  Are you rotating your hands a little too much, did you lift up during the stroke, are you delivering the putter flat to the ground, straight, and hitting the ball in the correct spot?   You say these are feel things, but what you feel is when your mechanics are on or a bit off.   
• Touch is that you should have a consistent tempo for all length putts.  No,  we aren't robots and some putts will be short of the hole and some will be past the hole.  The length of stroke is calculated based on how our minds process the distance,  we are generally pretty good doing this skill if we don't get in our way,  but long and short putts could be the result of a rhythm that is a little to slow or gets a little too quick.   You have said it quite often,  look at the hole and your body will know what to do.  

 @Jim Shaw indicated in one of his responses:  "I am standing up straighter, finding my line and hitting it, (at least today) the greens were running at 10.5 and the 1st 3 holes I lipped out and ran 3-4 feet past the hole"   This to me indicates a struggle with the core basic fundamentals of putting:  setup issues, aim issues, and touch issues, and potentially read issues.   Do you want to continue that for 18 holes or do you want to start mid round to possibly understand/adapt to possibly play better? You said above "isn't it obvious when it happens";  I read his response as it wasn't obvious to him that he was doing those things during the entire round..  For it to be "obvious" doesn't there have to be some kind of assessment or thought based on results?  

In your last paragraph,  I am not saying not to do post round results evaluation as that drives what skills need to be practiced in more depth.  The bigger question is do you continue with something being "off" during the round or do you wait until the next or next several rounds to try and understand?  If I am under reading putts,  I am going to do some kind of assessment to try and improve during that round.  For example, why would I want to continue to under read putts for an entire round? How many holes would you continue to under read breaks before making a change?

so you are changing your thought process a bit, you have moved from "post putt critique" to a fundamental critique, I definitely will do that during the round if I see a "pattern" develop what ever that may be, but if the fundamentals are delivering consistent results I won't post critique every putt... don't forget this isn't happening on a sunday shits and giggle round with my alchoholic buddies (being facetious) this is happening at the National Championships where putts matter...There is a lot going on in these events which is a conversation for a different thread, and I may do one of those soon, but I have had some real benefitial takeaways from these conversations...

[Javs]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... I wish I could rewire my brain. I had a fitting with Kevin Weeks at Cog Hill in IL. He works with lots of Pro's and is a putting guru. He watched me hit putts and measured everything. He wanted me to roll the ball 2' past the hole. Everything about my putting suffered. After a few more experiments he told me he rarely gives this advice, but I should continue to be a die in the hole putter. Some golfers are just mentally wired to see the line and speed as dying in the hole and attempting to change that doesn't work for them. Several on tour were the same and Kevin said I will probably make more putts that drop in the side of the hole than hitting the edge with more speed and lipping out or rolling past. The flip side is I will miss some rolling off the hole from the volcano effect of either improper pin installment or people stepping right next to the hole all day. So it is a wash and since I had a repeatable stroke, good speed and a consistent path and face angle dying the ball in the hole, I should just stay with it. 

... That said as we both found out, it just doesn't work well with short makable putts on grainy Bermuda. So I have compromised and have concentrated on being more aggressive inside 6 feet, unless it is a downhill or big side breaking putt. Past 6 feet I continue dying the ball in the hole. 

I can see your point. It took awhile for me to make the switch. At first, it was a huge struggle. Occasionally it creeps back. However, for the most part I have converted. 

[cnosil]

35 minutes ago, chisag said:

... One of my pards is a streaky putter and often strokes a putt and immediately says "Pulled it" and starts walking after his pulled putt before it even gets to the hole. I don't know what goes on in his head to do that other than anxiety or working on his stroke, which he changes from time to time. But I just think that should never happen. It is a short stroke from under 6 feet and you may miss it but with thousands of stroked putts on your carpet at home over and over again and I don't see how a pulled or pushed putt can happen from such a short distance. 

I think your athletic background plays a huge part in your putting prowess.  Sounds right on the anxiety or the changing stroke aspect.  IMO, pulled or pushed putts from those distances fall back on fundamentals:  bad aim, you rolled your hands/forearms, held them open, tried to watch the putt and opened up, etc.   Face angle tolerances are pretty wide from that distance.

 

19 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

so you are changing your thought process a bit, you have moved from "post putt critique" to a fundamental critique, I definitely will do that during the round if I see a "pattern" develop what ever that may be, but if the fundamentals are delivering consistent results I won't post critique every putt... don't forget this isn't happening on a sunday shits and giggle round with my alchoholic buddies (being facetious) this is happening at the National Championships where putts matter...There is a lot going on in these events which is a conversation for a different thread, and I may do one of those soon, but I have had some real benefitial takeaways from these conversations...

I don't think I am changing my thought process.  As part of the post put critique I am simply asking myself: did I do what I wanted to do and like you, it isn't something that requires action after a single hole; it has to be a pattern over a few holes.  The biggest non fundamental critique is about read and am I reading the speed correctly.   so bascially the post putt critique could be as simple as "did what I wanted to do" which to me aligns with a no putt post shot critique.    I completely get that you are play serious competitive golf which is why I direct my questions to you.   I don't play at that level but always want to play my best in my Sunday or company league play rounds.  

[funkyjudge]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... Thanks and always interesting stuff amigo. I am lucky and may sound like a cocky azz sometimes talking about putting but I just have excellent natural spacial awareness. It is the reason I was a good QB and 3 point jump shooter. It came natural for me. Yes it took lots of work and practice to fine tune natural spacial ability but I had a natural head start. Since it is a natural gift, I don't second guess myself and just trust my intuition.

... I would add this is for putting only. I am like everyone else and struggle with the full swing and have gone through changes over the years. I played 4 rounds under par last week with my swing feeling effortless and then the next 2 rounds were a struggle and everything about my swing felt a little off. The entire round was a struggle and I spent most of it getting up and down. But for me putting is so simple just rolling a ball a specific distance on a specific line and I have never changed anything about my putting stroke in 40 years of playing. Since I have never changed anything, I find it easy to be repeatable with stance and stroke, although like everyone I have days where everything goes in and others where I seem to burn the edges and putts just don't fall.  But my speed is always consistent and I next to never 3 putt because I have a tap in from most every distance. Again, I think I am just lucky to have a natural feel for speed. 

... One of my pards is a streaky putter and often strokes a putt and immediately says "Pulled it" and starts walking after his pulled putt before it even gets to the hole. I don't know what goes on in his head to do that other than anxiety or working on his stroke, which he changes from time to time. But I just think that should never happen. It is a short stroke from under 6 feet and you may miss it but with thousands of stroked putts on your carpet at home over and over again and I don't see how a pulled or pushed putt can happen from such a short distance. 

Au contraire, Sam!  I know without a shadow of doubt that a pulled putt can happen from 6 feet or less, as I have done it many, many, many times. I also know that I have pulled it within a millisecond after the ball leaves my putter face.

I’m sure you have noticed that my dominant miss with the driver (and virtually all clubs) is a pull or pull-draw, and that I was a consistent pull hitter in my baseball career. I really think that it is something physiological (not psychological) with me, and may also have something to do with my being left eye dominant as a right-hander.

[chisag]

53 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

Au contraire, Sam!  I know without a shadow of doubt that a pulled putt can happen from 6 feet or less, as I have done it many, many, many times. I also know that I have pulled it within a millisecond after the ball leaves my putter face.

I’m sure you have noticed that my dominant miss with the driver (and virtually all clubs) is a pull or pull-draw, and that I was a consistent pull hitter in my baseball career. I really think that it is something physiological (not psychological) with me, and may also have something to do with my being left eye dominant as a right-hander.

 

... Interesting Doug. A physiological pull from 6 feet or less.  I get the psychological and see players "wishing" it in the hole with all kinds of issues like looking up before contact, moving/twisting their body or just kinda yipping it because they want to make it more than they want to trust their technique. But assuming every putt is a straight putt where you take the putter back on the same line, move forward on the same path and make contact with the same face angle and the only variable is how long a stroke to make, I am a little surprised a life long athlete wouldn't be able to do it the same way every time. 

... I get once you are over say 20 feet or so the stroke can be much longer, especially on slow greens, so all of the above can be off just a little but at that distance you are looking to putt the ball into a 1-2 foot circle and if it goes in all the better. But just taking the putter back and stroking straight through the ball from 6 feet must take some manipulation if you have a consistent stroke. 

... Unless of course you change your mechanics or your grip or your approach. I did a free putter fitting last summer from the guy that runs Putter World and he had me take 10 putts from 8 feet and I made all of them while he used SAM to measure everything. He told me I was lucky because I have a faulty stroke and poor address position.

My eyes were 2" inside the ball and he said I need them directly over the ball.

I also had too long a follow through as he insisted everyone on tour has a short follow through and more of a hitting motion than a swinging motion.

I didn't hit my putts with enough speed and IF I had missed they would have only gone a few inches past the hole.

And finally I opened my face to much on the backstroke making it difficult to square up at impact. 

... I couldn't help but smile and asked him if I have som much wrong with my stroke, how did I make 10 in a row and he shrugged and said "You were lucky but I can fix your putting if you sign up for lessons".   All I wanted from the free lesson was: is my loft and lie ideal for my stroke and he didn't give me an answer to either. 

Edited February 11 by chisag