LAB DF3 - the honeymoon is over

[Braehead]

It really pains me to post this but with 22 rounds under my belt with the LAB DF3, I can definitely say that my putting has deteriorated since I made the switch.  It got off to a great start but my strokes gained putting has deteriorated quite considerably.  With the 42 rounds I have logged in Tangent my SGP relative to a scratch player is +0.3.  For the last 10 it is -0.5 and for the last 20 it is +0.2.  So the trend is worsening and the recent poor rounds are dragging down the total.  
 

For those who read my original review when I ordered the club you'll remember that the performance differential with my Toulon Atlanta was quite close but I was more confident with short putts with the LAB.   That is still the case but the biggest issue I have with the club is pace control.  I just can't get the hang of it.  Touch and finesse is where I'm struggling. 

I've definitely found the club to be hotter off the face than my Toulon and that has undoubtedly caused some issues with pace and line.  I've gone from dying the ball in the hole to consistently missing long and right, probably not adjusting the borrow for the extra pace off the face.  I do think you need to alter how you putt naturally to get the most out of this club and that can feel awkward at times. 
 

I'm not prepared to give up on the club just yet, especially as I paid £575 for it, but I'm very tempted to go back to my Toulon and give this one some time out of the bag.  But it might never get back in.  I'll make some time to get to the practice green this week and do some more drills up against my Toulon.  Right now though, the early confidence has had a considerable setback.  

Edited May 20 by Braehead
Additions and spelling

[yungkory]

16 hours ago, Braehead said:

It really pains me to post this but with 22 rounds under my belt with the LAB DF3, I can definitely say that my putting has deteriorated since I made the switch.  It got off to a great start but my strokes gained putting has deteriorated quite considerably.  With the 42 rounds I have logged in Tangent my SGP relative to a scratch player is +0.3.  For the last 10 it is -0.5 and for the last 20 it is +0.2.  
 

For those who read my original review when I ordered the club you'll remember that the performance differential with my Toulon Atlanta was quite close but I was more confident with short putts with the LAB.   That is still the case but the biggest issue I have with the club is pace control.  I just can't get the hang of it.  Touch and finesse is where I'm struggling. 

I've definitely found the club to be hotter off the face than my Toulon and that has undoubtedly caused some issues with pace and line.  I've gone from dying the ball in the hole to consistently missing long and right, probably not adjusting the borrow for the extra pace off the face.  I do think you need to alter how you putt naturally to get the most out of this club and that can feel awkward at times. 
 

I'm not prepared to give up on the club just yet, especially as I paid £575 for it, but I'm very tempted to go back to my Toulon and give this one some time out of the bag.  But it might never get back in.  I'll make some time to get to the practice green this week and do some more drills up against my Toulon.  Right now though, the early confidence has had a considerable setback.  

FWIW, I struggled a lot with pace when I was gaming my DF2. Not sure if it's the difference in head, shaft (DF2 had stability shaft), or both, but the Link.1 feels much firmer off the face and I feel like I have better control of pace/touch.

[Josh Parker]

18 hours ago, Braehead said:

It really pains me to post this but with 22 rounds under my belt with the LAB DF3, I can definitely say that my putting has deteriorated since I made the switch.  It got off to a great start but my strokes gained putting has deteriorated quite considerably.  With the 42 rounds I have logged in Tangent my SGP relative to a scratch player is +0.3.  For the last 10 it is -0.5 and for the last 20 it is +0.2.  
 

For those who read my original review when I ordered the club you'll remember that the performance differential with my Toulon Atlanta was quite close but I was more confident with short putts with the LAB.   That is still the case but the biggest issue I have with the club is pace control.  I just can't get the hang of it.  Touch and finesse is where I'm struggling. 

I've definitely found the club to be hotter off the face than my Toulon and that has undoubtedly caused some issues with pace and line.  I've gone from dying the ball in the hole to consistently missing long and right, probably not adjusting the borrow for the extra pace off the face.  I do think you need to alter how you putt naturally to get the most out of this club and that can feel awkward at times. 
 

I'm not prepared to give up on the club just yet, especially as I paid £575 for it, but I'm very tempted to go back to my Toulon and give this one some time out of the bag.  But it might never get back in.  I'll make some time to get to the practice green this week and do some more drills up against my Toulon.  Right now though, the early confidence has had a considerable setback.  

For me, the distance control came down to getting that shaft "press" right. 

The pistol grip helped me get there better than the press grip I originally had. 

[Rob Person]

19 hours ago, Braehead said:

It really pains me to post this but with 22 rounds under my belt with the LAB DF3, I can definitely say that my putting has deteriorated since I made the switch.  It got off to a great start but my strokes gained putting has deteriorated quite considerably.  With the 42 rounds I have logged in Tangent my SGP relative to a scratch player is +0.3.  For the last 10 it is -0.5 and for the last 20 it is +0.2.  
 

For those who read my original review when I ordered the club you'll remember that the performance differential with my Toulon Atlanta was quite close but I was more confident with short putts with the LAB.   That is still the case but the biggest issue I have with the club is pace control.  I just can't get the hang of it.  Touch and finesse is where I'm struggling. 

I've definitely found the club to be hotter off the face than my Toulon and that has undoubtedly caused some issues with pace and line.  I've gone from dying the ball in the hole to consistently missing long and right, probably not adjusting the borrow for the extra pace off the face.  I do think you need to alter how you putt naturally to get the most out of this club and that can feel awkward at times. 
 

I'm not prepared to give up on the club just yet, especially as I paid £575 for it, but I'm very tempted to go back to my Toulon and give this one some time out of the bag.  But it might never get back in.  I'll make some time to get to the practice green this week and do some more drills up against my Toulon.  Right now though, the early confidence has had a considerable setback.  

That's a tough pill to swallow for sure. Golf equipment at its current pricing sure makes it hard to spend on something,  just to shelf it a short time later.  I hope you can find a way to overcome whatever is preventing you from maximizing it's potential.   I've never seen or hit one in person.

[Braehead]

It's good to have the data from Tangent to prove how I'm getting on with it.  Unfortunately I'm struggling to get the graphics out of the app to post into here, but looking over all the rounds I've used it, there is a definite right miss bias and recently I've gone from missing long to missing short.  Probably as I'm lacking a bit of confidence with pace.   The trend is worsening over time.  
 

Maybe part of my issue is just my poor expectation management.  I was a good putter before I made the switch and I still am a good putter!  I'm looking at SGP against scratch, so I shouldn't be so hard on myself!  However I do feel that I swung the Toulon with more "freedom" than I swing the DF3.

It's too soon to give up on it though so I'm off to spend some time at the practice green and see if I can rekindle the early fire.  

[Preeway]

I think putting is one of those things that has a tendency to ebb and flow and having more than one trusted putter can help when you hit a funk. I think being +0.2 SG is a sign that things are still trending well Especially after starting off your first 10 rounds at -0.5. I would definitely give it more time and see how your stats trend. Are you seeing different results on courses with slow vs. fast greens?

[Braehead]

Sorry - you're the wrong way round with your thinking there.  It's the last 10 rounds that are dragging down the average.  The SGP chart on Tangent has a definite top left to bottom right trend now - which is not the direction I want to see. If I could get it to flat line and oscillate above and below zero, I'd be delighted. 

[Preeway]

Don’t you want your SG to be positive numbers? 

[Braehead]

24 minutes ago, Preeway said:

I think putting is one of those things that has a tendency to ebb and flow and having more than one trusted putter can help when you hit a funk. I think being +0.2 SG is a sign that things are still trending well Especially after starting off your first 10 rounds at -0.5. I would definitely give it more time and see how your stats trend. Are you seeing different results on courses with slow vs. fast greens?

 

Just now, Preeway said:

Don’t you want your SG to be positive numbers? 

Yes - you want it positive.  The last 10 have been negative and have dragged down the average from the first couple of good rounds. A graph that moves from top left to bottom right is a declining trend and something that needs to be addressed - which is what I'm trying to do.

[Preeway]

Gotcha. Yeah, I had misread it. You definitely have enough data to see some reliable trends so hopefully you can sort out those mid range putts. Have you noticed a difference on slow vs. fast greens?

[Braehead]

8 minutes ago, Preeway said:

Gotcha. Yeah, I had misread it. You definitely have enough data to see some reliable trends so hopefully you can sort out those mid range putts. Have you noticed a difference on slow vs. fast greens?

I do find the putter to be hot off the face and that contributes to my long miss.  Greens here in St Andrews are getting firmer and faster by the week so we'll soon see if there is a big difference.  Consistent greens would be nice

[cksurfdude]

On 5/19/2024 at 11:59 AM, Braehead said:

 I do think you need to alter how you putt naturally to get the most out of this club and that can feel awkward at times. 

Def agree with not wanting to do that. There have been discussions elsewhere about fitting the putter to the golfer, and not the other way around.

I think I'd also agree with the suggestion to let it sit for a while, get some rounds and data with the "comfortable" putter and reassess...

Good luck!!

[Braehead]

2 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Def agree with not wanting to do that. There have been discussions elsewhere about fitting the putter to the golfer, and not the other way around.

I think I'd also agree with the suggestion to let it sit for a while, get some rounds and data with the "comfortable" putter and reassess...

Good luck!!

I've just watched a YouTube with Eric Cogorno Golf and Sam Hahn where Sam is recommending that you have the ball forward in the stance, shaft middle(ish) and gripping differently.  He said, as forward as possible.   I wonder if this is where some of my issues stem from.  As a right eye dominant player I actually like the ball a bit back in my stance (no more than middle) as that's how I see my line best.   That does suggest that if I want to get the best performance from this putter then I need to change how I play with it. Hmm, not sure just how comfortable I am with that, it will take a lot of getting used to. 
 

 

[vandyland]

54 minutes ago, Braehead said:

I've just watched a YouTube with Eric Cogorno Golf and Sam Hahn where Sam is recommending that you have the ball forward in the stance, shaft middle(ish) and gripping differently.  He said, as forward as possible.   I wonder if this is where some of my issues stem from.  As a right eye dominant player I actually like the ball a bit back in my stance (no more than middle) as that's how I see my line best.   That does suggest that if I want to get the best performance from this putter then I need to change how I play with it. Hmm, not sure just how comfortable I am with that, it will take a lot of getting used to. 

So take this purely as one opinion but I have had my DF 2.1 for 2 years now. The first year I was very hot and cold with it. I did all the LAB drills and feels....thumbs off, ball forward etc. Then I, one day, moved the ball back to the dead center of my stance and gripped the club normally if not even a little firmly. My putting has been MILES better in 2024. Ball forward never worked for me (especially on longer putts where I felt like I almost topped the ball) and the light grip was just not my bag. The turning point was I moved the ball to the middle of my stance MID ROUND on Pinehurst No. 2. I made 6 birdies on the back 9 (for reference, my birdie avg is usually like 1-2), so that was revelation. Love my putter but I had to learn to do it my way. No offense to Sam, he is a CEO, not a teaching professional. 

[Braehead]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

So take this purely as one opinion but I have had my DF 2.1 for 2 years now. The first year I was very hot and cold with it. I did all the LAB drills and feels....thumbs off, ball forward etc. Then I, one day, moved the ball back to the dead center of my stance and gripped the club normally if not even a little firmly. My putting has been MILES better in 2024. Ball forward never worked for me (especially on longer putts where I felt like I almost topped the ball) and the light grip was just not my bag. The turning point was I moved the ball to the middle of my stance MID ROUND on Pinehurst No. 2. I made 6 birdies on the back 9 (for reference, my birdie avg is usually like 1-2), so that was revelation. Love my putter but I had to learn to do it my way. No offense to Sam, he is a CEO, not a teaching professional. 

Thanks for that input, it's really helpful and reassuring that it's not just me!  The way you describe your setup is how I play with my Atlanta.  From the work I did with Bruce Rearick I know I like the ball to be under my right eye, which results in the putter head being quite far back - especially when they're this big!  The things suggested in the video feel totally alien - especially the thumbs off grip! 
 

I've just been out and experimented with setup using my PuttOut Mat and Devil Ball.  As soon as I start moving it forward of middle, I start hitting it off to the right.  
 

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, Braehead said:

Thanks for that input, it's really helpful and reassuring that it's not just me!  The way you describe your setup is how I play with my Atlanta.  From the work I did with Bruce Rearick I know I like the ball to be under my right eye, which results in the putter head being quite far back - especially when they're this big!  The things suggested in the video feel totally alien - especially the thumbs off grip! 

My guess is that you like to feel the face of the putter and the lack any torque messes you up.  Probably more focused on t where the face points than the actual putter path? 

[Braehead]

10 minutes ago, cnosil said:

My guess is that you like to feel the face of the putter and the lack any torque messes you up.  Probably more focused on t where the face points than the actual putter path? 

Possibly.  The strapline for the advertising is "less to think about" but right now I seem to have too much to think about.  But I don't want to give up on it just yet.  
 

I got off to a great start with it and hopefully I'll get back to that early free flowing confidence.  I know there's a couple of putter guys out there that would tell me it's just the placebo effect of the new putter wearing off and my dominant tendencies forcing their way back out.  
 

After some more practice tonight it's still in the bag for my round tomorrow.  I'll play another 3-5 rounds and get up to 25+ rounds and then review the results again. 

[cnosil]

38 minutes ago, Braehead said:

Possibly.  The strapline for the advertising is "less to think about" but right now I seem to have too much to think about.  But I don't want to give up on it just yet.  
 

I got off to a great start with it and hopefully I'll get back to that early free flowing confidence.  I know there's a couple of putter guys out there that would tell me it's just the placebo effect of the new putter wearing off and my dominant tendencies forcing their way back out.  
 

After some more practice tonight it's still in the bag for my round tomorrow.  I'll play another 3-5 rounds and get up to 25+ rounds and then review the results again. 

 

I gave of on the LAB putters;  I can putt well with them, but I really want to use my hands to feel the putter.   Kind of goes against what they want you to do and makes most putters pretty equal.  

 

[bens197]

22 rounds is far from a small sample.  It’s a bummer that it isn’t working and while it sounds like you’re not going to toss it into the bin at least you can say you gave it an honest shot.

[Middler]

That’s why there are hundreds of putters, employing all sorts of “tech.” There is no putter that’s universally good…and it’s the wizard more than the wand anyway. I’m just starting on my DF3 evaluation but I’ve always used a light grip with no wrist or hand action - so I’m not changing much.

[Braehead]

15 hours ago, bens197 said:

22 rounds is far from a small sample.  It’s a bummer that it isn’t working and while it sounds like you’re not going to toss it into the bin at least you can say you gave it an honest shot.

 

15 hours ago, Middler said:

That’s why there are hundreds of putters, employing all sorts of “tech.” There is no putter that’s universally good…and it’s the wizard more than the wand anyway. I’m just starting on my DF3 evaluation but I’ve always used a light grip with no wrist or hand action - so I’m not changing much.

I'm absolutely not about to give up on it just yet.  The round today was unfortunately abandoned due to extremely slow play and all members of my 4-ball giving up the will to live.  So it's off to the practice green this afternoon again.  
 

Regarding the lighter grip pressure, I've always tried to keep a light grip too, so there's not a big change there for me either.  Neither am I overly "handsy".  Although my bad swings are almost always when my grip pressure gets too tight and my stroke too "steery".  
 

I know from previous work that I've got quite a strong arc to my swing.  L.A.B. say this shouldn't matter, but I'm also sure I've seen representatives from LAB saying that their putters best suit a SBST type swing.  
 

Out of curiosity I got a quote from one of the UK club buyer sites.  Totally derisory! 

[cnosil]

10 minutes ago, Braehead said:

 

Regarding the lighter grip pressure, I've always tried to keep a light grip too, so there's not a big change there for me either.  Neither am I overly "handsy".  Although my bad swings are almost always when my grip pressure gets too tight and my stroke too "steery".  

 

What is your source of motion? 

[Braehead]

14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

What is your source of motion? 

A very Bruce Rearick question.....

I'd say I'm a "lead arm puller".  Putt best when I keep my trail arm as a passenger and not the driver 

Edited May 21 by Braehead
Extra

[cnosil]

14 minutes ago, Braehead said:

I know from previous work that I've got quite a strong arc to my swing.  L.A.B. say this shouldn't matter, but I'm also sure I've seen representatives from LAB saying that their putters best suit a SBST type swing.  
 

There is a video that Sam Hahn put out that said he doesn’t like to talk arc versus SBST.   He uses one of the putting plane training aids and shows that the shaft moves along a pane and fundamentally doesn’t arc but if you look at the head, it moves up the plane which shows that the stroke arcs.   Without manipulation a larger head arc would typically occur in a flatter plan or if a stoke is more biased to the left or right.   

[cnosil]

5 minutes ago, Braehead said:

A very Bruce Rearick question.....

Yep.  You said you worked with Bruce so I knew you would know what I meant.  Trying to relate to relate what you are saying to his recent stuff about face or path aware players.  

[Braehead]

5 hours ago, cnosil said:

Yep.  You said you worked with Bruce so I knew you would know what I meant.  Trying to relate to relate what you are saying to his recent stuff about face or path aware players.  

Bruce can be a bit cryptic at times but his knowledge of putting is amazing.  He would tell my that my dominant traits would eventually override the placebo effect of the new putter and I think that may be what's happening now.  
 

I had two hours on the putting green yesterday and again today comparing the DF3 and my Toulon Atlanta.  It's worth noting that when I was fitted for the DF3 I had my Atlanta lie adjusted to the same 71 degrees.  Both are 33" long.  The Toulon has a Lamkin Deep Etched grip and the DF3 has the Press Pistol 2 degree.  
 

The quick summary is that from 6' and under the LAB is point and shoot.  Middle of the hole and firm.  In the 6-8' foot range they are similar, but the further away I go, the more the Atlanta outperforms the DF3.  My pace and distance control are just better with it.  I've also found that historically when I've tried face balanced mallets too - great from close range and poor from long range.  
 

I'm comfortable these practice sessions mirror what I'm seeing on the course too and having data from Tangent also backs it up.  The data has helped identify the areas to practice and has helped decision making.  
 

So, very reluctantly, I'm likely going to call time on the DF3.  

Edited May 21 by Braehead
Spelling

[Wakit300]

I started putting with a BLaD.1 2 seasons ago to help with terrible yippy putting and it was quite an adjustment. I putted better but never felt super comfortable. Last season I upgraded to the MEZZ.1 and putted better but still had issues with using my hands too much in the stroke. The key to getting comfortable with it was going away from face awareness, which I had used my entire golfing life with "normal" putters, to shaft angle awareness during the stroke. Just rocking the shoulders and keeping the shaft angle steady did the trick. It's a totally different perception and now I'm putting MUCH better. In fact, my putting has changed so much that two of my regular playing partners also bought L.A.B. putters.

[Braehead]

23 minutes ago, Wakit300 said:

I started putting with a BLaD.1 2 seasons ago to help with terrible yippy putting and it was quite an adjustment. I putted better but never felt super comfortable. Last season I upgraded to the MEZZ.1 and putted better but still had issues with using my hands too much in the stroke. The key to getting comfortable with it was going away from face awareness, which I had used my entire golfing life with "normal" putters, to shaft angle awareness during the stroke. Just rocking the shoulders and keeping the shaft angle steady did the trick. It's a totally different perception and now I'm putting MUCH better. In fact, my putting has changed so much that two of my regular playing partners also bought L.A.B. putters.

I'm glad you managed to get it to work for you.  If I'd persevered longer "maybe" I would have gotten there too, but the putter is now back with Auchterlonies and for sale in their second hand store while I'm back with my Toulon Atlanta.  
 

When I did my initial testing and review (posted here) it was a seriously close call between the two clubs.  I'm a good putter and while the stats with the LAB are still pretty respectable, they are worse than with the Toulon.  Practice sessions can only go so far in replicating the pressure of competitive play and that's where it was failing.  Also, the more I played with it the more I realised why I liked it for short putts was because I just battered them into the back of the cup and took all the break out.  There's a lesson there for the Toulon!  
 

Last year I was fitted for the Paradym TD driver.  It was awesome in the fitting bay but when I got it on the course I couldn't hit the proverbial barn door with it.  I'm reminded of the old saying that "The difference between theory and practice is that in practice, theory doesn't always work".   That's pretty much the case here.  
 

It's been an experiment, but I'm glad I've tried it.  Like many here, I love trying new golf things and I've enjoyed this process.  In reality, it's cost me less than a two or three of bottles of nice wine!  I could have considerably more expensive habits

Edited May 23 by Braehead

[Braehead]

Please see the original review for some putting data from Tangent.  I've got a fuller report on my own blog but it's against forum rules to post a link to that.  
 

If you search online for my review of the Tangent app, then you'll find the blog.  

Edited June 7 by Braehead
Extra content

[rarce_torres]

I feel your pain.   A putter is like a new girlfriend, when you start using it everything comes up roses, then there is a plateau, then you can't hit the side of a barn with the putter.....  Usually for me I'll sit the putter down for a few weeks and bring back one from the past....and start the cycle all over again.  Anyone else do this?  Sometimes I just need something different to look at for a while.