Do You Trust Online/Virtual Fitting Apps?

[Modecius]

They can be a good starting point, but I wouldn’t buy solely on what they recommend. 

[Shifty]

Lol, I've done the vokey online fitting thingie 3 times.  It's given me the same results every time.  Still booked a session when the Titleist guy comes around in August to my course to confirm.  They don't give them away, so just need a human to confirm I'm not making a mistake.

[Saturday Morning Sherpa]

In a word, no.  There is no way the average golfer has all the details to correctly do a fitting.  (Not referring to someone that has a high end device to provide all the swing data)

However, if you have been recently fitted by a professional, then an online tool would be good for a confirmation.

Edited July 17 by Saturday Morning Sherpa

[Topper]

No!  I learned that lesson the hard way becoming convinced the "$350 driver shaft which happens to be on sale" was perfect for my swing speed, needed kick point, firmer feel near the hosel, blah, blah, blah.  I went through the virtual fitting and ended up falling for the banana in the tailpipe.  I will never buy another shaft without seeing the ball flight outdoors on a grass range.

[Franc38]

7 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This notion of we are inconsistent so it doesn’t matter is what holds back people from playing better golf or making changes that will help them. Just like with swings and making excuses for why one swings the way they do and for not taking lessons to fix it.

I'm not saying that we're inconsistent and therefore should play with whatever... We are very consistent in general, even high 'cappers, but the way the swing works is not an abstract motion, it's a motion organised around a tool (the club in hand). Change marginally the tool and the motion will also change to arrive at the desired end result (or desired feels). It is a key concept in motion learning literature and the reason why some of the best training aids are "wonky clubs" that make you change your swing.

You'll improve much more by working on your game diligently than by taking a lesson and not working much, but that will still beat getting fit (unless you initially played with totally wrong clubs) by a good margin.

 

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If just being in the ballpark was all that is needed then the men and women who make a living off playing golf wouldn’t spend the time they do to get dialed in or look to make improvements when something new comes along. So if the best in the world do it it’s probably worth the credit.

Yeah, they spend an impossible amount of time getting fit, re-getting fit, changing shafts, lofts, lies... and still, the best ones remain the best ones, the second tier ones remain at their level, even when changing sponsors and therefore totally getting a different equipment. They're still in the ballpark, they still shoot the same... unless they change their training methods, swing coach, mental game.

The main reason why they spend so much time on the equipment is the same reason why they have some weird routines, some dressing habits, and so on: to get more confidence, to be fully convinced they can be the best version of themselves on that next round. And, let's be honest, because after a bad round, a bad tournament, it's easier to think "there was something off in the lie of my irons" than "my mental game was off" or "I wasn't physically well prepared".

 

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Not to mention there’s data that shows how golfers improve when properly fit

That one I really would like to see. Except for the guy who's playing blades on x-stiff heavy shafts when he's swinging his 7 iron at 65 mph and can't get the ball airborne, if you take any regular decent player, 10 or less who's playing off the rack stuff and have him perfectly fit by an expert, I don't expect more than half shot gain, and that might well be transient and based mostly on confidence (and possibly the will to play and practice more based on getting the shiny new sticks).

[Ryeball20]

With the advent of AI integrated into new apps I would lend some credence to the fitting but ultimately you'll have a hard time denying the "feel" of the swing.

[TJ Hall]

I bought my Vokey SM8 wedges based on the online fitting and I am super happy with them.

But, the output is based on how you answer the questions…so you need to know a little bit about your swing/setup for the input.

[Tincuptim]

If the young man played at a major D-1 college he would not have a 30 yard gap caused by a fitter. You ultimately have the final say at what goes in your bag. 

I would use a ball fitting app because I will take a sleeve to the course and see how it performs, reasonable cost. Tough to do with a bunch of irons and shafts. You can use the fitting data and look for a used set with your specs if you don't want to spend the coin for a new set. Fittings are guidelines. Again, you always have final say. 

[NM01]

1 hour ago, Franc38 said:

Change marginally the tool and the motion will also change to arrive at the desired end result (or desired feels). It is a key concept in motion learning literature and the reason why some of the best training aids are "wonky clubs" that make you change your swing.

Yes because our brain will tell our body what to do based on where the club head is. Having an okay fit is going to require more compensations to be made eveytime and can engrain even more bad habits in the swing.  Have a club or tool fit for the swing and those compensations become less and makes it easier to repeat the ones we have to make. 

 

1 hour ago, Franc38 said:

You'll improve much more by working on your game diligently than by taking a lesson and not working much, but that will still beat getting fit (unless you initially played with totally wrong clubs) by a good margin.

Nobody is disputing that to improve getting better at the skill of the golf swing is the way to fix and those who have knowledge will tell you to combine the lessons with a fitting and to have one’s coach with them for the fitting so that the fitter is on the same page as the coach and golfer and can fit for where the golfer is at and where the swing is going. At no point so far has anyone said not to work on the game if you want to get better. But what they leaves out is the the group of golfers who aren’t going to practice or work on their game. You get them into a set that works with their swing not just in the ball park.

i don’t want to make assumptions but im guessing you never worked as a fitter and probably not as a someone who has coached people thru swing improvement. I have done both and the game becomes easier when the golfer doesn’t have to fight the club.

Ive also played with a friend. We both had the same irons and the only difference in our clubs was the flex of the shafts. We swapped irons for 9 holes to see who would play better with the other person irons. Since the change was only flex it’s a set thats in the ball park. He had trouble getting his normal ball height. His timing was off and he played some of his worst golf for those 9 holes. He was a 10ish handicap so not a bad golfer.

2 hours ago, Franc38 said:

Yeah, they spend an impossible amount of time getting fit, re-getting fit, changing shafts, lofts, lies... and still, the best ones remain the best ones, the second tier ones remain at their level, even when changing sponsors and therefore totally getting a different equipment. They're still in the ballpark, they still shoot the same... unless they change their training methods, swing coach, mental gam

The second tier ones wouldn’t be second tier if they had to play okay sets. Some of those guys would struggle to maintain status. Even the top guys would struggle. We don’t really have to look to far to see examples. All the guys that had pxg drivers in the bag struggled. Then we can look at Billy Hoerschel after he left pxg and had irons with the wrong lie angle and he struggled.

They would have to work on their swing to make the new play clubs work and do what they needed them too. If these guys struggle some when things are off and they are the top of the pyramid of golfers imagine how much a regular golfer is fighting their clubs and struggling to play better golf.

2 hours ago, Franc38 said:

That one I really would like to see. Except for the guy who's playing blades on x-stiff heavy shafts when he's swinging his 7 iron at 65 mph and can't get the ball airborne, if you take any regular decent player, 10 or less who's playing off the rack stuff and have him perfectly fit by an expert, I don't expect more than half shot gain, and that might well be transient and based mostly on confidence (and possibly the will to play and practice more based on getting the shiny new sticks).

It’s all out there to see. Club champion has punished data about improvements made by their customers.

Others have done so too. Howard Jones has tons of data on his European clients that range from everyday golfers to tour pros. 
 

the internet is your friend

[Patpott]

I trust the apps, but I don't trust myself to answer the questions the app is asking.  For instance in the Ping app it asks for your transition type (abrupt, smooth, slow).  As far as I know I'm as smooth as can be.  My prior set of custom fitted clubs would tell me that smooth is not correct.

[MissionMan]

On 7/13/2024 at 1:38 PM, GolfSpy_APH said:

This is somewhat inline with the Vokey Wedge Fit App, but more do you trust the online questionnaire based fittings that seemingly all companies have. Do you think they work based on the information you provide or do you feel they are lacking in one form or another? 

If so where is it that you feel they could improve? Or do you just think they are what they are and a decent starting point, but not something you would solely base a purchase off of?

I think apps in general are pretty good these days. I think where they don't solve problems is the "what you don't know that you don't know".

When I first got back into golf, I played AVX because I wanted a low-spin ball. I was getting way too much spin on the course, so based on the recommendations, I needed a low-spin ball.

The problem with that is that it wasn't giving me the right advice. When I actually did an in-person fitting with Titleist (they were doing Teams call fittings online), it turns out too much spin wasn't my problem. Club selection was my problem. i.e. hitting a 54 into a green with the pin at the back and having it spin back 10 yards wasn't the right shot, hitting a half 48 that bounced and checked up was the right shot. The fitting app didn't tell me that because it wasn't asking the right questions based on the answers. The app could be built to ask the right questions, but it may not know how to intepret the answers or ask relevant follow up questions.

I think in the absense of the right access to fittings, it can do 80-90% of what you need it to. It's better than having no app at all, and it can also give a better outcome than most shop assistants who are:

a) trying to make a sale with the club that gives the highest profit

b) often don't know that much about golf

 

[Tincuptim]

If the young man played at a major D-1 college he would not have a 30 yard gap caused by a fitter. You ultimately have the final say at what goes in your bag. 

I would use a ball fitting app because I will take a sleeve to the course and see how it performs, reasonable cost. Tough to do with a bunch of irons and shafts. You can use the fitting data and look for a used set with your specs if you don't want to spend the coin for a new set. Fittings are guidelines. Again, you always have final say. 

Sometimes I think they're is too much information out there. I see 15-18 handicaps taking about soft stepping irons and so on. Really? Golf junkies maybe, and equipment nerds probably, but i feel unless you are a plus handicap (which I'm not) people spend unproductive time swapping out 2-3 different sets of shafts in there irons. Most people are not Tiger. They can talk a +4 game though. Lol

[Bob Pegram]

The amount of testing needed by a fitter makes an online fitting from home totally inadequate. Somebody using an online fitting app doesn't even have the impact stickers, various test clubs, launch monitor, etc. needed to get enough info for a successful fitting. (Full disclosure: I used to work for a Top 100 Rated independent custom clubfitter named Leith Anderson who was very thorough). He taught me how to do the fittings as well. Having lots of shafts of various lengths, flexes, various flex points, torque, etc. for both woods and irons is necessary for a proper fitting (as well as driver heads with various lofts). In addition we would change grips to the size and basic style the golfer preferred to make sure the test accurately illustrated his or her ability to hit the center of the clubface and otherwise produce good shots while holding the club in the way they typically would as well as with the best shaft flex, flex point, weight, torque, etc. We would blow grips on and off with air so they were usble immediately without a wait. Obviously we had driver heads with removable and adjustable shaft tips as well as irons designed for fitting so shafts could be installed or removed at will. Another thing a fitter should do is help with some elementary swing corrections so the golfer's best swing is being fitted. If that isn't done, if the golfer improves, the new clubs would no longer fit the old swing and would get in the way of the improved swing.

[RTH1]

Only as a curiosity, as far as ai taking over, given the individual characteristics of the human race, I think not.

[GolfInTheCity]

They can provide general guidance, but they leave a lot to be desired. I would be more open to trusting an online wedge fitting than an iron or wood fitting. Wedges are more about the grind/bounce and with so many options, I'd would trust the tool to help me select the right setup.

[SirOliver]

I wouldnt trust it unless I was using a state of the art hitting bay with cameras and a proper launch monitor that gives accurate numbers. I feel like there is so much that could be missed looking at a video rather than right in front of you.

 

Also I swing it about 120mph with driver and I can't tell you the amount of times a fitter asks me this question, I tell him, and he instantly tells me what club is "right" for me. Only for me to hate how the club feels and reacts. Your swing is so much more than a simple formula or input = output. So I would not be comfortable being fit without trying the solution in real time. 

[NM01]

3 minutes ago, SirOliver said:

I wouldnt trust it unless I was using a state of the art hitting bay with cameras and a proper launch monitor that gives accurate numbers. I feel like there is so much that could be missed looking at a video rather than right in front of you.

 

Also I swing it about 120mph with driver and I can't tell you the amount of times a fitter asks me this question, I tell him, and he instantly tells me what club is "right" for me. Only for me to hate how the club feels and reacts. Your swing is so much more than a simple formula or input = output. So I would not be comfortable being fit without trying the solution in real time. 

Any fitter basing decisions on someone’s swing speed is a fitter that should be avoided. As you mention there’s a lot more to it. Most good fitters are looking at ball speed and the important club delivery numbers and launch characteristics as well as ball flight.

 

[work2playgolf59]

I have been fitted by 2 fitters in the golfing industry.  One of them was "C.C." and I think they did a very poor job.  first, they spec'd out the clubs I brought and used them as a base.  Why?  if I did't like them, why use them as a base?  Second, they continued to use the base numbers from the old clubs for their "suggested" clubs.   maybe they wanted me to see added length, dispersion, etc.  But of course, that never happened.  so I didn't purchase anything from them.  the second location was a local but trusted golf professional with complete fitting capabilities.  He took the time to ask me questions, about likes, and dislikes of my current game and clubs.  Then, started by showing a few iron heads and shafts for testing.  Once he locked in on a distance and dispersion, we got it down to the right irons for me.   my point to this whole story - if it's HARD to get  a club fitting in person, how do you trust "online" to be successful and not just throw away money?

[TripleB]

Trust is a definitive word. Do I have full trust in an on-line app? Short answer is no. However, due to my relatively remote location it is what I have available to myself for some products. No matter how accurate an app may be, it isn't the same as an in-person experience. That all said, an app is a lot more accurate than just buying an article off the web and hoping it works...

[Bob Pegram]

3 hours ago, TripleB said:

Trust is a definitive word. Do I have full trust in an on-line app? Short answer is no. However, due to my relatively remote location it is what I have available to myself for some products. No matter how accurate an app may be, it isn't the same as an in-person experience. That all said, an app is a lot more accurate than just buying an article off the web and hoping it works...

I suggest you do some research to find a very good fitter, then make an appointment for a fitting, take a trip to get the fitting. If it is good and thorough go with his suggestions. Or, even better, have the fitter make one or two clubs for testing on the course. If they work have the fitter make the rest of the set. In the long run you wiull play way better, improve more consistently, and enjoy golf for years. With a set of clubs that fits well, you can use them for many years. Even touring pros use clubs for years and years if they work well. For example, Berhard Langer's hybrids are Adams that are almost 20 years old. They work well and hit him so he doesn't change.

[work2playgolf59]

100% behind the comments by "B"

[TripleB]

6 hours ago, Bob Pegram said:

I suggest you do some research to find a very good fitter, then make an appointment for a fitting, take a trip to get the fitting. If it is good and thorough go with his suggestions. Or, even better, have the fitter make one or two clubs for testing on the course. If they work have the fitter make the rest of the set. In the long run you wiull play way better, improve more consistently, and enjoy golf for years. With a set of clubs that fits well, you can use them for many years. Even touring pros use clubs for years and years if they work well. For example, Berhard Langer's hybrids are Adams that are almost 20 years old. They work well and hit him so he doesn't change.

I agree completely. I flew across across the country for a fitting at TXG in Toronto and enjoyed the experience.  I can honestly say my handicap dropped quickly due to having the correct clubs. However. If i happened to be stuck without the monetary means and had to rely on a virtual fitting, it is unreasonable to expect the same results. My results don't necessarily reflect other's of course.

[KeegMeister]

I think the system works, but the user doesn't. People are knowledgeable enough or honest enough about their own golf skills to get an accurate result. Garbage in - Garbage out