Iron play on and off the course

[YourLocalJimmy]

Last week I decided to buy some nice shiny musclebacks because I thought they look cool and that is the style of club I have always wanted but could never afford. I went with the Mizuno MP-33's, which I honestly didn't know much about at the time and saw few posts on MGS regarding this fantastic club. However, I decided to buy them with little research and headed to the range to see if I could even hit the ball straight. 

I started my range session with the pitching wedge (my most comfortable and reliable swing), and when I tell you I have never hit a ball so good in my life... There is no way that a club could make that drastic of a difference in my game, not without any technique change right? Something was amiss and I could not put my finger on it. I went on to test out all 8 of my new clubs and the results were just as good. Due to my amazing performance on the range I quickly booked a tee time for the next day thinking this could be the day I break 90! Little did I know, that is NOT what happened.

First hole tee shot was perfect, I couldn't have hit a better placed ball. Hit a slight fade around a water hazard for about 240yards, 165 to the pin. I was so pumped to crack out my 5-iron and give it a whirl. I was feeling good and calm, went into the backswing like practiced, and made contact with the ball and totally flubbed it 5 yards away. Anger and despair filled my head for the rest of the hole. Throughout the latter 17 holes it was roughly the same name for my iron shots, a little short of 50% good ball striking. 

In conclusion of my range time and on course performance I feel that the only difference of my game was the mental fortitude that I obviously lacked while on the course. Is this a common problem people have, whether you are a recreational, amateur or pro player? Curious to hear if it is just me that has this issue or not!

[RickyBobby_PR]

There’s no consequences on the range for mis hitting a ball. On the course it’s a different story.

George Gankas dives into the mental approach for on course. Ego, expectations and worries about results are things that need to be eliminated on the course 

[Kansas King]

51 minutes ago, YourLocalJimmy said:

Last week I decided to buy some nice shiny musclebacks because I thought they look cool and that is the style of club I have always wanted but could never afford. I went with the Mizuno MP-33's, which I honestly didn't know much about at the time and saw few posts on MGS regarding this fantastic club. However, I decided to buy them with little research and headed to the range to see if I could even hit the ball straight. 

I started my range session with the pitching wedge (my most comfortable and reliable swing), and when I tell you I have never hit a ball so good in my life... There is no way that a club could make that drastic of a difference in my game, not without any technique change right? Something was amiss and I could not put my finger on it. I went on to test out all 8 of my new clubs and the results were just as good. Due to my amazing performance on the range I quickly booked a tee time for the next day thinking this could be the day I break 90! Little did I know, that is NOT what happened.

First hole tee shot was perfect, I couldn't have hit a better placed ball. Hit a slight fade around a water hazard for about 240yards, 165 to the pin. I was so pumped to crack out my 5-iron and give it a whirl. I was feeling good and calm, went into the backswing like practiced, and made contact with the ball and totally flubbed it 5 yards away. Anger and despair filled my head for the rest of the hole. Throughout the latter 17 holes it was roughly the same name for my iron shots, a little short of 50% good ball striking. 

In conclusion of my range time and on course performance I feel that the only difference of my game was the mental fortitude that I obviously lacked while on the course. Is this a common problem people have, whether you are a recreational, amateur or pro player? Curious to hear if it is just me that has this issue or not!

Question: Were you hitting off mats at the range?

When laying up on a par 5, does it seem easier to hit a flush iron shot?

Whether you were hitting off the mats or not, this is just a classic example of why golf is mentally difficult. Ranges are great if you take the right approach. A few things can happen at the range that results in your problem. First, there are no consequences on the range so you may be swinging more freely. Second, it's easy to lose perspective of how far offline your shots are on a range. Many if not most people are trying to feel good swings at the range with little regard to accuracy. When you get on the course and are trying to hit specifically at the green all the sudden you have brought in a whole new element you didn't practice for on the range. It can make a blade look extra small once you make it out to the course. Third, if you hitting off mats you're potentially way getting more help that you're aware of. 

Another thing to note is that the MP33s are good clubs. Mizuno typically makes a little bigger blade that is more forgiving than their counterparts. However, they aren't that forgiving. The center of gravity is only 1.07 inches from the hosel on the 6 iron. That means on a perfectly solid strike, you are just under a quarter inch away from a shank off the hosel. That's not much and doesn't give much room for error. You're swing may have changed a little from the prior day making the club seem totally unplayable. 

When you combine the potential mental pitfalls, clubs with little forgiveness, and a new club honeymoon period, you get what you experienced. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Kansas King

[YourLocalJimmy]

39 minutes ago, Kansas King said:

Question: Were you hitting off mats at the range?

When laying up on a par 5, does it seem easier to hit a flush iron shot?

Whether you were hitting off the mats or not, this is just a classic example of why golf is mentally difficult. Ranges are great if you take the right approach. A few things can happen at the range that results in your problem. First, there are no consequences on the range so you may be swinging more freely. Second, it's easy to lose perspective of how far offline your shots are on a range. Many if not most people are trying to feel good swings at the range with little regard to accuracy. When you get on the course and are trying to hit specifically at the green all the sudden you have brought in a whole new element you didn't practice for on the range. It can make a blade look extra small once you make it out to the course. Third, if you hitting off mats you're potentially way getting more help that you're aware of. 

Another thing to note is that the MP33s are good clubs. Mizuno typically makes a little bigger blade that is more forgiving than their counterparts. However, they aren't that forgiving. The center of gravity is only 1.07 inches from the hosel on the 6 iron. That means on a perfectly solid strike, you are just under a quarter inch away from a shank off the hosel. That's not much and doesn't give much room for error. You're swing may have changed a little from the prior day making the club seem totally unplayable. 

When you combine the potential mental pitfalls, clubs with little forgiveness, and a new club honeymoon period, you get what you experienced. 

Hitting off mats at the range, yes.

Yes, I typically hit better lay up shots.

To your point about hitting off mats. Is the help you are getting typically the "bounce" the club gets off of a mat, which may result in hitting a fat shot on the course?

[YourLocalJimmy]

53 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

There’s no consequences on the range for mis hitting a ball. On the course it’s a different story.

George Gankas dives into the mental approach for on course. Ego, expectations and worries about results are things that need to be eliminated on the course 

I think the worries of a bad shot is what gets me.

[Kansas King]

18 hours ago, YourLocalJimmy said:

Hitting off mats at the range, yes.

Yes, I typically hit better lay up shots.

To your point about hitting off mats. Is the help you are getting typically the "bounce" the club gets off of a mat, which may result in hitting a fat shot on the course?

Driving range mats prevent the fat shot and make good ground interaction much easier. It's much easier to hit the ball higher on the clubface which will generally create more solid feeling shots as it's easier to get the club's center of gravity below the ball's COG. Hitting a ball with the club's COG at or below the ball's COG is what makes a shot feel "solid". Additionally, one of the big forgiveness facts that you don't get with blades is the sole. The sole on blades is meant for maximum playability and if you aren't consistent the sole won't be there to help cruise over the turf and prevent thin and fat shots. However, the mats take this out of the equation as every club will easily glide right over the top. I actually like driving range mats when I'm working on certain issues because they are consistent and I don't have move my alignment sticks around once they are set up. Plus, it's easier mentally to try different things swing-wise knowing that you aren't going to start an excavation company if something doesn't work.

Lay up shots are one of the few shots on the course that I would equate to hitting on the range. Typically lower stress with a big target and people typically aren't worried about distance.

Next time you are on the range hitting irons, try to imagine a green out around your target. When you put the mental image of a green out on the range, you start to realize just how wide the driving range is and how far offline several of your shots likely are. This isn't necessary on every shot but it help keep everything in perspective when you are on the range. Same goes for the driver. Imagine a fairway out on the range.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

A buddy of mine was a driving range pro ( not a real pro ). On the range he could do no wrong. When it came to actual on course it was another story. It was all mental for him. In his head it was "I have one ball, one shot, and it's got to be good." He would doubt himself and self destruct. I told him to tee up his drive. Then I placed 4 other balls on the ground near his tee and told him if he didn't hit a good shot just pick up another and hit that one and so on. I continued this for the entire hole. Of course he hit a perfect shot. It was all in his head. He actually made par on the hole. To many swing thoughts, worried about out of bounds, water, topping, shanking and so on. I just had to prove to him it was all in his head. 

Personally for me I do not like driving range mats. It leads you more toward picking the ball instead of hitting down on the ball. Partly due to always having a perfect lie and not wanting to hurt your wrist by hitting down on the back of the ball. When you transition over to the golf course you still try to pick it and that usually doesn't work well.  You can typically see fat shots going from a mat to grass. I have a simulator and I installed an extra thick turf section just so I wouldn't get into a bad habit of getting shallow.  

To start, I would try another driving range that has natural grass and see if your results differ.  If the results are the same then I would lean toward taking a few lessons and see if it's swing related.  Try to keep all those swing thoughts swimming around in your head to a minimum. It's hard we all have been there.    

[Flip4000]

As others have said, the lack of consequences and perfect lies on every shot really make it extremely easy to feel like a pro on the range. Even when I manage to hit a few fairways during the round my like is rarely perfect with uphill, down hill, and sidehill lies. 

There is also probably a confidence aspect as well. Once you lose that confidence after a few bad shots where you can't find the middle, it can be a rough round. 

 

[YourLocalJimmy]

5 hours ago, Kansas King said:

Driving range mats prevent the fat shot and make good ground interaction much easier. It's much easier to hit the ball higher on the clubface which will generally create more solid feeling shots as it's easier to get the club's center of gravity below the ball's COG. Hitting a ball with the club's COG at or below the ball's COG is what makes a shot feel "solid". Additionally, one of the big forgiveness facts that you don't get with blades is the sole. The sole on blades is meant for maximum playability and if you aren't consistent the sole won't be there to help cruise over the turf and prevent thin and fat shots. However, the mats take this out of the equation as every club will easily glide right over the top. I actually like driving range mats when I'm working on certain issues because they are consistent and I don't have move my alignment sticks around once they are set up. Plus, it's easier mentally to try different things swing-wise knowing that you aren't going to start an excavation company if something doesn't work.

Lay up shots are one of the few shots on the course that I would equate to hitting on the range. Typically lower stress with a big target and people typically aren't worried about distance.

Next time you are on the range hitting irons, try to imagine a green out around your target. When you put the mental image of a green out on the range, you start to realize just how wide the driving range is and how far offline several of your shots likely are. This isn't necessary on every shot but it help keep everything in perspective when you are on the range. Same goes for the driver. Imagine a fairway out on the range.

That makes a lot of sense about why it seems so much easier to hit off mats. I have always heard about it being easier but didnt really understand the technicals, thank you for that!

I will give that a try tonight while I am out there, maybe I can sneak past the mats and hit on the grass!

[YourLocalJimmy]

4 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

A buddy of mine was a driving range pro ( not a real pro ). On the range he could do no wrong. When it came to actual on course it was another story. It was all mental for him. In his head it was "I have one ball, one shot, and it's got to be good." He would doubt himself and self destruct. I told him to tee up his drive. Then I placed 4 other balls on the ground near his tee and told him if he didn't hit a good shot just pick up another and hit that one and so on. I continued this for the entire hole. Of course he hit a perfect shot. It was all in his head. He actually made par on the hole. To many swing thoughts, worried about out of bounds, water, topping, shanking and so on. I just had to prove to him it was all in his head. 

Personally for me I do not like driving range mats. It leads you more toward picking the ball instead of hitting down on the ball. Partly due to always having a perfect lie and not wanting to hurt your wrist by hitting down on the back of the ball. When you transition over to the golf course you still try to pick it and that usually doesn't work well.  You can typically see fat shots going from a mat to grass. I have a simulator and I installed an extra thick turf section just so I wouldn't get into a bad habit of getting shallow.  

To start, I would try another driving range that has natural grass and see if your results differ.  If the results are the same then I would lean toward taking a few lessons and see if it's swing related.  Try to keep all those swing thoughts swimming around in your head to a minimum. It's hard we all have been there.    

Your buddy sounds a lot like me, maybe I should try that pile of ball trick lol. As far as another range, it is difficult for me to find another range due to the fact that the only one I know of with lights is mats only. I will look out on the web and see what I can find!

[GolfSpy AFG]

16 hours ago, YourLocalJimmy said:

Your buddy sounds a lot like me, maybe I should try that pile of ball trick lol. As far as another range, it is difficult for me to find another range due to the fact that the only one I know of with lights is mats only. I will look out on the web and see what I can find!

You've already been given great advice on mats and range versus on-course play, but I'd also add that a club fitting might be a good idea.

I feel bad even making the comment since you just bought them, but based on the 30 handicap you've posted in your profile, if you went in for a fitting with no brand or club bias I'd be very very surprised if a blade won out as the best fit for you.  Exceptions to every rule I suppose, but blades are typically the territory of very good ball-strikers, and more and more good ball-strikers these days still opt for the help of a cavity-back anyway. 

That may not be what you want to hear, sorry, but in your initial post you basically said you picked them up based on aesthetics without much research, so maybe it won't be a big deal to you to "cut your losses" (for lack of a better term) and sell or trade them in for something that better suits you?  Again, I suppose there's a chance I'm wrong in this, but based on your signature/profile I can't see an MP-33 3i as being a good club to have in your bag for instance.

My two cents...

 

[YourLocalJimmy]

9 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

You've already been given great advice on mats and range versus on-course play, but I'd also add that a club fitting might be a good idea.

I feel bad even making the comment since you just bought them, but based on the 30 handicap you've posted in your profile, if you went in for a fitting with no brand or club bias I'd be very very surprised if a blade won out as the best fit for you.  Exceptions to every rule I suppose, but blades are typically the territory of very good ball-strikers, and more and more good ball-strikers these days still opt for the help of a cavity-back anyway. 

That may not be what you want to hear, sorry, but in your initial post you basically said you picked them up based on aesthetics without much research, so maybe it won't be a big deal to you to "cut your losses" (for lack of a better term) and sell or trade them in for something that better suits you?  Again, I suppose there's a chance I'm wrong in this, but based on your signature/profile I can't see an MP-33 3i as being a good club to have in your bag for instance.

My two cents...

 

One of these days I hope to get fitted for some clubs that actually work best for me and my swing. By no means am I upset at your comments, I knew that blades probably weren't the "best" clubs I could've gotten but I wanted to feel the difference. I honestly only got them because they were a pretty good deal and I have always wanted to swing some blades! Knowing me and how cheap I can be I probably wont get fitted for new clubs until next year.

 

On the other hand, I still have my old clubs that my dad gave me, Ping i3 os. I do not really know much about fitting or what you can and cannot do, but would it be worth taking those in to get fitted?

[GolfSpy AFG]

4 minutes ago, YourLocalJimmy said:

One of these days I hope to get fitted for some clubs that actually work best for me and my swing. By no means am I upset at your comments, I knew that blades probably weren't the "best" clubs I could've gotten but I wanted to feel the difference. I honestly only got them because they were a pretty good deal and I have always wanted to swing some blades! Knowing me and how cheap I can be I probably wont get fitted for new clubs until next year.

 

On the other hand, I still have my old clubs that my dad gave me, Ping i3 os. I do not really know much about fitting or what you can and cannot do, but would it be worth taking those in to get fitted?

Again, exceptions to every rule and I've never seen you swing, but based on your handicap I suspect you'll play better right now gaming the Ping's versus the blades.

"...taking those in to get fitted..."  I wouldn't go that route.  If you took a set of clubs to a fitter with the intent of having them somehow adjusted to you, you could find yourself swapping shafts, grips, and getting loft/lie adjusted to the point that it would have made more financial sense to just get new sticks fitted to you from the OEM.  Plus, who knows how well the i3 head actually fits you.

There are a lot of folks on here that are MUCH smarter than me on club fitting, and frankly better at dishing out advice overall, but to me it's a question of goals.  If you like your pretty MP-33s and are out to just have a good time and your score doesn't matter to you too much, go for it.  But if improvement and lowering your handicap is your goal, I'd game the i3's, take a few lessons with the aim of developing a reasonably fundamentally-sound action, and then get fit for a new set of irons.

[YourLocalJimmy]

1 hour ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Again, exceptions to every rule and I've never seen you swing, but based on your handicap I suspect you'll play better right now gaming the Ping's versus the blades.

"...taking those in to get fitted..."  I wouldn't go that route.  If you took a set of clubs to a fitter with the intent of having them somehow adjusted to you, you could find yourself swapping shafts, grips, and getting loft/lie adjusted to the point that it would have made more financial sense to just get new sticks fitted to you from the OEM.  Plus, who knows how well the i3 head actually fits you.

There are a lot of folks on here that are MUCH smarter than me on club fitting, and frankly better at dishing out advice overall, but to me it's a question of goals.  If you like your pretty MP-33s and are out to just have a good time and your score doesn't matter to you too much, go for it.  But if improvement and lowering your handicap is your goal, I'd game the i3's, take a few lessons with the aim of developing a reasonably fundamentally-sound action, and then get fit for a new set of irons.

That's exactly what I wanted to know. I wasn't exactly certain that fitting my current clubs would be worth it considering that everything may change aside from the club head. I appreciate the feedback!

I would love to lower my handicap down to sub 10, so I have set a pretty high bar for myself. This goal actually hit me almost a month ago, so right now I am trying to just get a good feel of where I am at as a player and see what works best. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

I would suggest putting MP's in the closet for now. Then put the Ping's in play and take some lessons with them. Give yourself a goal of getting to a 20 handicap. Once there take the MP's out for a round and see if your hard work and better ball striking works with the MP's. If not then move your goal to a 15. At that point you should be getting close (assuming they fit you).  For a rough reference the sweet spot on a game improvement iron is the size of a quarter. On blades it's the size of a dime. Once you can get the majority of you impacts on the club face into the size of a nickel  then you should feel confident in using the MP's.     

[Kenny B]

2 hours ago, YourLocalJimmy said:

That's exactly what I wanted to know. I wasn't exactly certain that fitting my current clubs would be worth it considering that everything may change aside from the club head. I appreciate the feedback!

I would love to lower my handicap down to sub 10, so I have set a pretty high bar for myself. This goal actually hit me almost a month ago, so right now I am trying to just get a good feel of where I am at as a player and see what works best. 

Unless you are a gifted athlete or take a lot of lessons, it will take quite awhile to get from a 30 to sub-10.  It's an admirable goal, but one that will likely take years.  Rather than get discouraged, setting a goal that is more easily attainable is a better option; 20 might be the place to start; you can adjust your goal as you progress.  Dropping from 30 to 20 can come pretty quickly with lessons and practice; getting from 20 to 15 is a lot harder, and sub-10 is tough.  I started about where you are 29 years ago, and got to an 8 about 5 years ago when I retired and could spend a lot of time practicing and playing.  Now it's going back up because I'm old!!

Best of luck on your journey to better golf!  Part of the enjoyment of golf is the journey itself.

 

35 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

I would suggest putting MP's in the closet for now. Then put the Ping's in play and take some lessons with them. Give yourself a goal of getting to a 20 handicap. Once there take the MP's out for a round and see if your hard work and better ball striking works with the MP's. If not then move your goal to a 15. At that point you should be getting close (assuming they fit you).  For a rough reference the sweet spot on a game improvement iron is the size of a quarter. On blades it's the size of a dime. Once you can get the majority of you impacts on the club face into the size of a nickel  then you should feel confident in using the MP's.     

I agree with Tom.  The Ping i3's are nice clubs and should work well as you progress to a lower handicap.  However, I'm assuming that the Pings are a reasonably good fit for lie angle.  You should have your swing checked to see if it is flat, upright, or neutral.   Look up the Ping color code chart to see what color best suits your swing.  Check the color code on your i3 irons; black dot is most common.  If you are one side or the other a couple of colors, you should be OK for now. What you don't want is to have your swing be on one side of the chart and the irons be on the other.  BTW, if they are a bad fit, then you will need to get different clubs, as the Pings will break if try to adjust the lie angle.

 

[dlow206]

At the range you get the perfect, flat lie every time. On the course you do not. You start having uphill lies, down hill lies, ball above feet, below feet, different conditions of the grass, fairway, rough, etc. Even if you get your mind cleared from the bad thoughts, its still much different. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

Unless you are a gifted athlete or take a lot of lessons, it will take quite awhile to get from a 30 to sub-10.  It's an admirable goal, but one that will likely take years.  Rather than get discouraged, setting a goal that is more easily attainable is a better option; 20 might be the place to start; you can adjust your goal as you progress.  Dropping from 30 to 20 can come pretty quickly with lessons and practice; getting from 20 to 15 is a lot harder, and sub-10 is tough.

3 years or less with some lessons and focused practice just a couple times a week. 
 

Learning course management and some short game lessons under 20 in a year easily. 
 

Playing the most comfortable club in a bag off the tee and treating each hole as one stroke above stated par will have a person playing bogey golf or just under it within a season.

[YourLocalJimmy]

2 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Unless you are a gifted athlete or take a lot of lessons, it will take quite awhile to get from a 30 to sub-10.  It's an admirable goal, but one that will likely take years.  Rather than get discouraged, setting a goal that is more easily attainable is a better option; 20 might be the place to start; you can adjust your goal as you progress.  Dropping from 30 to 20 can come pretty quickly with lessons and practice; getting from 20 to 15 is a lot harder, and sub-10 is tough.  I started about where you are 29 years ago, and got to an 8 about 5 years ago when I retired and could spend a lot of time practicing and playing.  Now it's going back up because I'm old!!

Best of luck on your journey to better golf!  Part of the enjoyment of golf is the journey itself.

 

I agree with Tom.  The Ping i3's are nice clubs and should work well as you progress to a lower handicap.  However, I'm assuming that the Pings are a reasonably good fit for lie angle.  You should have your swing checked to see if it is flat, upright, or neutral.   Look up the Ping color code chart to see what color best suits your swing.  Check the color code on your i3 irons; black dot is most common.  If you are one side or the other a couple of colors, you should be OK for now. What you don't want is to have your swing be on one side of the chart and the irons be on the other.  BTW, if they are a bad fit, then you will need to get different clubs, as the Pings will break if try to adjust the lie angle.

 

The goal of sub 10 is what I would call my long term goal for my golf game (within 5 years), although I wouldn't mind doing it in a year lol. I figure for the time being I chip away at it one stroke at a time and just keep practicing every day!

I will check on that lie angle, as I am not sure what angle they are at. Hopefully they are not the opposite of what I need.

[YourLocalJimmy]

13 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

3 years or less with some lessons and focused practice just a couple times a week. 
 

Learning course management and some short game lessons under 20 in a year easily. 
 

Playing the most comfortable club in a bag off the tee and treating each hole as one stroke above stated par will have a person playing bogey golf or just under it within a season.

I've heard of some people doing it rather quick like this, I would love to attack my handicap as aggressive as that! I am just finding it hard to find a coach around my area that is available or less than $500/hour

[BMart519]

As a former 30+ handicap, let me impart some driving range wisdom... Stop going, unless you are meeting an instructor there...

My game improved faster and in larger increments when I decided to stop going to the range and go spend 2 hours playing 9 holes instead. Or spending 30 min on putting and chipping (when I averaged 36+ putts/round and 10-15% up and downs). 

The range isn't going to teach you how to score (how far you need to carry a 9 iron for a bump and run vs a lob wedge for a shot to a flag 20 yards away), deal with nerves, course management, play out of the sand and various types of rough. Drop an extra ball on the course here and there when it doesn't affect play to get extra reps in (playing solo is great for this). If you want to improve your swing, get some instruction, work on drills at home and check ball flight at the range. If you're doing it on your own, get reps in playing golf not golf swing on turf you won't find on the course. 

[Kenny B]

37 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

3 years or less with some lessons and focused practice just a couple times a week. 
 

Learning course management and some short game lessons under 20 in a year easily. 
 

Playing the most comfortable club in a bag off the tee and treating each hole as one stroke above stated par will have a person playing bogey golf or just under it within a season.

Likely, close for most people.  Everyone is different in how they learn the game and their general skill level.  

Getting off the tee and keeping the ball in play is certainly critical for lowering handicap; short game and putting practice to get the feel around the green is a quick way to drop the handicap.  Mid- to high- handicaps will miss a lot of greens; being able to eliminate extra chips/pitches and 3-4 putts is essential for a low handicap.

[Kenny B]

34 minutes ago, YourLocalJimmy said:

The goal of sub 10 is what I would call my long term goal for my golf game (within 5 years), although I wouldn't mind doing it in a year lol. I figure for the time being I chip away at it one stroke at a time and just keep practicing every day!

I will check on that lie angle, as I am not sure what angle they are at. Hopefully they are are not the opposite of what I need.

As one who started learning the game on my own, I would highly recommend lessons from a qualified instructor.  The longer you try to learn on your own, the more engrained swing flaws will be that must be fixed later to achieve an efficient and effective swing.  Yes, it can be done on your own; it's just a lot easier when you practice with correct setup and mechanics.

The color of the dot is inside the cavity near the heel of the club.  The question is: What's your swing lie angle?

[dlow206]

44 minutes ago, YourLocalJimmy said:

I've heard of some people doing it rather quick like this, I would love to attack my handicap as aggressive as that! I am just finding it hard to find a coach around my area that is available or less than $500/hour

You can do online lessons, such as through the skillest app. Im paying less than a $100 a month for unlimited “lessons”. Note not everytime i interact with my instructor is a new lesson, some are just asking questions, getting feedback on how things are looking, etc. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

42 minutes ago, YourLocalJimmy said:

I've heard of some people doing it rather quick like this, I would love to attack my handicap as aggressive as that! I am just finding it hard to find a coach around my area that is available or less than $500/hour

Squires Golf Training is near you. $40.00/hr.  There is a website www.lessons.com . You enter in the info about yourself and the website will match you up with some instructors in your area with reviews and pricing. The questions are detailed so they know a starting point. Squires popped up when I put your town in. You can enter your email and they will reach out to you. 

But if all else fails, Heck, I'll drive 4 hours to you for $500 an hour. After the second hour I'll even throw in a set of clubs from my collection.

 But seriously good luck finding someone. Hope this helps.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

Likely, close for most people.  Everyone is different in how they learn the game and their general skill level.  

Getting off the tee and keeping the ball in play is certainly critical for lowering handicap; short game and putting practice to get the feel around the green is a quick way to drop the handicap.  Mid- to high- handicaps will miss a lot of greens; being able to eliminate extra chips/pitches and 3-4 putts is essential for a low handicap.

A person who learns how to reduce the number of strokes starting with 125 yards and in without changing any other part of their game will be in the mid teens within a season. 
 

Eliminating the big score by taking their medicine and not trying hero shots can be in the low-mid 80s with the improved short game. 
 

 

[YourLocalJimmy]

12 hours ago, dlow206 said:

You can do online lessons, such as through the skillest app. Im paying less than a $100 a month for unlimited “lessons”. Note not everytime i interact with my instructor is a new lesson, some are just asking questions, getting feedback on how things are looking, etc. 

Do you like this method so far? I have been looking into the online lessons but I feel like it is hard to get any improvements off of strictly video and no in person training.

[YourLocalJimmy]

12 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Squires Golf Training is near you. $40.00/hr.  There is a website www.lessons.com . You enter in the info about yourself and the website will match you up with some instructors in your area with reviews and pricing. The questions are detailed so they know a starting point. Squires popped up when I put your town in. You can enter your email and they will reach out to you. 

But if all else fails, Heck, I'll drive 4 hours to you for $500 an hour. After the second hour I'll even throw in a set of clubs from my collection.

 But seriously good luck finding someone. Hope this helps.

Perfect! I wonder why they never popped up when I was searching around here? 

I bet you would, I know I would drive 4 hours to make $500 in an hour! Some of those guys charge way too much to show you how to swing a club, it is outrageous.

[RickyBobby_PR]

43 minutes ago, YourLocalJimmy said:

Do you like this method so far? I have been looking into the online lessons but I feel like it is hard to get any improvements off of strictly video and no in person training.

Success from lessons in person or online depends on how well communication works between student and coach and how much effort is put in by the student after the lesson and how committed to the process and change are. Sean Foley posted on Instagram that it’s been 11 years for him and justin rose for a change they’ve been working on.

Just like with in person finding a coach who has a philosophy and teaching method that works with your approach and goals. Most coaches/platforms offer some sort of feedback opportunity after a lesson to make sure your understanding of the drills and such is correct and that you are doing the work right.

In no particular order of favorite or price these are some of the coaches that are good and offer online 

Chris Ryan

Jake Hutt

Alex Riggs

Monte Schleinbum

Jake Gilmer

Mark Odenthal

Dan Carraher

Athletic Motion Golf

Shauneen Nakhjavani

Pete Locket

Jake Chown

Bradley Hughes who also has a set of drills you can buy and do on your own or has a deal if you pay for them they come with lessons from him iirc over a 6 month period for roughly $800

George Gangas website is a course based program that offers swing feedback after being on the program for a month or so. It has q&a available with each video that the coaches respond to. You get 2 video uploads a week. It’s $500 for a year or $49/mo of doing monthly payment. There’s no refunds or cancellation available

 

 

[DaveP043]

40 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Success from lessons in person or online depends on how well communication works between student and coach and how much effort is put in by the student after the lesson and how committed to the process and change are. Sean Foley posted on Instagram that it’s been 11 years for him and justin rose for a change they’ve been working on.

Just like with in person finding a coach who has a philosophy and teaching method that works with your approach and goals. Most coaches/platforms offer some sort of feedback opportunity after a lesson to make sure your understanding of the drills and such is correct and that you are doing the work right.

In no particular order of favorite or price these are some of the coaches that are good and offer online 

Chris Ryan

Jake Hutt

Alex Riggs

Monte Schleinbum

Jake Gilmer

Mark Odenthal

Dan Carraher

Athletic Motion Golf

Shauneen Nakhjavani

Pete Locket

Jake Chown

Bradley Hughes who also has a set of drills you can buy and do on your own or has a deal if you pay for them they come with lessons from him iirc over a 6 month period for roughly $800

George Gangas website is a course based program that offers swing feedback after being on the program for a month or so. It has q&a available with each video that the coaches respond to. You get 2 video uploads a week. It’s $500 for a year or $49/mo of doing monthly payment. There’s no refunds or cancellation available

 

 

I'll add another potential source:

https://evolvr.com/

This one is owned and operated by the owner of another golf website, and I've found the quality of the instruction to be pretty solid.  The one thing I'd always warn against is following any canned series of instructions.  Even online, the instruction MUST be based on evaluations of your own swing.