Sorting through Swing Thoughts / Accountability thread

[Goober]

Mixing different swing philosophies is like dating multiple people .It never works.Your gonna slip up eventually.Stick with Monte 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Goober

[Jim Shaw]

9 minutes ago, Goober said:

Mixing different swing philosophies is like dating multiple people .It never works.Your gonna slip up eventually.Stick with Monte 

"Dating multiple people" you are right, it doesn't work lol... good analogy. 

[vandyland]

23 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

"Dating multiple people" you are right, it doesn't work lol... good analogy. 

I'm still dating Monte. I just bought a 5 pack of lessons for the future. If anything, his cast feel is even more important now because I am more upright with my hands at the top of my backswing. But man, that backswing feels good and I have an extremely small sample size to be excited about.

I played the tips at my club this weekend for the first time in my life (really playing the tips anywhere) which is about 6,950 yds. The group of guys I was playing with are all 0-4 hdcps and that is where they play from and I didn't have the confidence to be the one guy that played from the blue tees (peer pressure). So this now plays about 500 yds longer than my usual. And I have a new backswing. Oh well, here we go. 

Outside of a massive block, slice off the tee on one hole (like 60 yds offline right) and a 6 iron that I blocked about 30 yds right of a green, ballstriking was fantastic. I was hitting a lot more mid-long irons due to the length of the course but shot a respectable 78 from tees that are rated 74.2/140. Felt great. I also didn't mention my swing change to anyone in the group (because WHO CARES?) and finished tied for 1st in our group with two guys that are 1.5 hdcps. This could all be temporary but the swing feels amazing and once I get to the top the downswing just feels a little more exaggerated than before with the flat backswing but the same principles/idea. 

I know I am not doing enough with my tilt as RB notes above BUT I think it will be easier to shove my hip back with my hands higher (dynamic balance). Something to work on in the future but right now (all feels are fleeting) the higher backswing is going a lot better with this current thought. Also, the ball is definitely stopping quicker and spinning back more which could be down to the steepness coming into impact but it was VERY helpful this weekend when I as coming into greens with a 5 iron and getting it to stop within 8 feet of the ball mark. 

[vandyland]

Found an oldie but a goodie Monte video on the backswing that blends well with this arm swing illusion feel, worked on the drill he shows at the end of the video with mixed results last night. As expected, it is fairly difficult to hit balls like that when you first start doing it but the ball flight or contact isn't the end goal, it is getting comfortable with the position at the top. Then it is figuring out how to get there in a normal backswing. 

 

https://youtu.be/V5o4A0IrGqg?si=GpiC_8c-YrWSyjMc

I think this is also a cousin to the "Faldo Drill" as well. Seems like it is all backswing all the time at the moment. I might be able to get on Trackman today and see if there are any changes to launch/spin/ballspeed (it feels like there are but probably not). I am still collapsing the right arm if I don't keep the thought of "pushing the club away from my trail shoulder." So as always, a lot to juggle over here but having fun at the moment.  

Edited December 5, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Also was able to get on trackman today and, at least today, the arm swing illusion swing seems to have solved a few problems I was having on my numbers with a 7 iron. 

Spin, Land Angle, F2P and Club Path are all improved. 

This was a session a few weeks ago with the really flat swing:

The numbers are okay but I really wanted my spin to be closer to 6500 rpm and my land angle to be greater than 45*. Also, my club path was waaay inside out and F2P was really closed as well. 

This was my session today with the arm swing illusion swing:

Spin was up to around 6600 rpm on average, land angle increased by about 3.5 degrees and my club path is still inside out but getting closer to zeroing out and my face to path was zeroed out (so the ball went slightly right). I went out on the range and confirmed what I was seeing in the trackman bay. Really pumped about these results. 

[vandyland]

Still plugging away over here and hitting balls every night. Working on more "slow swings" and doing more video work and less mindless hitting. Backswing is getting to be a little bit too much "Fred Couples" for my liking (outside the line going back) but it is all a fun and exciting experiment. Last night was about 37 degrees outside so the mishits were a little more JARRING than usual. 

On a side note, I got an interesting reminder on pitching. This is an obvious item but one of those things I had started doing without noticing. I was watching tour coverage on my TV while I was warming my hands and I noticed a tour player setting his wedge open, grounded AND THEN gripping his club. This makes sense, obviously you wouldn't take your grip and then twist the club open but I had been subconsciously doing that. Annoying but glad I caught it. Anyway, hit some pitches like that and they were coming out beautifully. 

Hopefully getting to play this weekend so we will see how all of this progresses. I also, against my better judgment, bought Jim Waldron's e-book. I am just very interested in what it has to say and I kind of love seeing different information out there. Yes, this is me having a dalliance outside of my relationship with Monte, I am aware. 

ALSO, going to start digging into left and right side bend again to see if I can get my shoulders tilted more towards the ball in the backswing. Pray for me. 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by vandyland

[Goober]

I think Jim Waldron has a lot in common with an older online golf teaching program.It was called Advanced Ball Striking.He advocates opening the face of the club up in transition. For some reason when I open I can hook it off the planet 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Goober

[vandyland]

1 hour ago, Goober said:

I think Jim Waldron has a lot in common with an older online golf teaching program

I will see what the book has in it. Again, I think he is correct with the arm swing illusion piece (though he is not the only person in the world to find that out). 

Last night I was trying, again in vain, to get more left side bend in my swing. I can do it, but then it is like my body has no idea how to get back to the ball. I must be doing one or a number of things wrong when I get back into it because I feel super stuck. Zipper away or "sitting on the bar stool" don't really work for me because it is like my arms have no idea where to go. 

Basically I am back where I always end up. I am not obsessing with my swing looking exactly like a tour player but if I look at 4 very different swings, they all have certain things in common at the top (with a mid iron):

In no particular order:

Flat lead wrist (I think I have this fairly well most swings) - check
Soft but straight lead arm (I usually have this) - check
Left side bend (I don't have this, or at least probably not enough) - fail
Rear Hip Depth (I have never had this) - fail
Hip Tilt (I turn my hips flat) - fail
Lead arm at least in line with shoulder plane (this is attainable but my shoulder plane is too flat right now so kind of irrelevant) - n/a
Bent Trail Leg (I have a habit of straightening mine which is not great) - mostly fail

So seems like I have some work to do. Obviously these guys have varying degrees of these things and the trail arm seems to deviate a bit between them but for the most part there are kind of foundational things that I cannot seem to incorporate. Frustrating. 

 

[cnosil]

11 minutes ago, vandyland said:

"sitting on the bar stool"

Frustrating. 

 

You can feel free to ignore this becuase I don’t know much about analyzing a swing but

in some of the porzak videos he talks about setup like sitting on a bar stool and that thought gets you back on your heels and not forward enough which takes away the space for your hands, makes you too upright, and too flat…basically the things you are frustrated with .   Maybe you can get some ideas from this video.  Again I am not a coach and have not knowledge of what you are doing right or wrong. 
 

 

[vandyland]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

You can feel free to ignore this becuase I don’t know much about analyzing a swing but

You can't know less than me! 

I am just searching for a feel that gets me to do it. I can side bend with my arms crossed in front of my body, I can do it with a club across my chest and get the shaft pointing at the ball, etc. But once my arms get involved all bets are off. Will check out. 

@cnosil his setup tip is very similar to what my first instructor told me. He had this tip about "leaning over the fence" that is about hip height. I got away from it for a variety of reasons but I know the "feel" to get into that. Thanks for the reminder!

Edited December 8, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Went to the range on Friday and Sunday this past weekend. Did not hit many good shots. Was talked into playing 9 by another member at the club (against my better judgement) and I shot a 47 for 9 holes. I think that is my worst ever 9 hole score since we joined in April by about 6-7 shots so it was, ugly. I can't say I hit a single iron solidly and I hit 2 balls OB with my driver. Good times. 

First big change to process and get used to is the overall setup position. As cnosil noted (and RB) my setup position wasn't putting me in a good position to start off. My butt was over my ankles and thus that made it impossible to get "hip depth" from there AND keep my balance. Also, I was standing up fairly straight. This was my old address position (or at least where it had gotten to):

And then compare it with a smattering of good players with good setups (see at the bottom of post) and have the idea that setup should more closely resemble this:

So now, we are starting with setup practice everyday (or at least hopefully everyday). Everything else (hands higher and arm off my chest in the backswing, left side bend, hip depth) can wait for now. 

Practice Plan for Setup work:

10 minutes per day, bare minimum (timed with an iphone timer)

Grip practice using 3 checkpoints and visual aid. Basic setup angles and setting up in a mirror. Holding a finish position with weight 90/10 front leg ad back leg. Initial part of takeaway.

Good players with a mid iron:

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Got some help on setup and I have a path forward from this and another thread. Seems like my checklist is going to hinge at the hips, slight knee flex, low back "flattish" to promote hip tilt and midpoint of shoulder over toes. Right now my "setup" looks like this.

But I am now going even more pronounced than this towards a Rory or Justin setup (our lower bodies look similar but Rory and Justin's shoulders are out over their toes and I still a bit upright vs that). 

[Josh Parker]

3 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Got some help on setup and I have a path forward from this and another thread. Seems like my checklist is going to hinge at the hips, slight knee flex, low back "flattish" to promote hip tilt and midpoint of shoulder over toes. Right now my "setup" looks like this.

But I am now going even more pronounced than this towards a Rory or Justin setup (our lower bodies look similar but Rory and Justin's shoulders are out over their toes and I still a bit upright vs that). 

I have enjoyed following along on the progress man!  Keep up the hard work. 

[vandyland]

On 12/11/2023 at 1:47 PM, Josh Parker said:

I have enjoyed following along on the progress man!  Keep up the hard work. 

Haha, it is really just an insight into my psychosis! I hope my kids never find this thread when they are older. I desperately want both a repeatable and fundamentally sound swing. I have put off the fundamentals too long because I didn't want to go through the pain of taking a bunch of steps backward. So it has been a series of bandaids for the past few years. Trying to stop that. 
 

Starting 30 days of setup practice here - 12/11/2023

spent about 30 seconds in this posture pictured above and then took a break and then got back into it x 5 rounds. Then came back 30 minutes later and repeated. Feels odd at the moment and feels like my butt is way stuck out and my shoulders are way out over my toes.

12/11, 12/12, 12/13:
3 Days in a row so far. Still feel like I am going to fall forward a bit but that is just getting used to the hip and spine tilt forward. Also feel farther from the ball. One thing I have to watch is hyperextending the spine. I need to stay with a slight "pelvic tilt" to avoid excessive flattening of the low back. On 12/13 (range photo) my setup looks a little less EXTREME flat low back but then I seem to stand up (not in a good way) more in the backswing, so that is not great. 

Did my 5 rounds of 30 seconds hold in my posture and then tried to "find it" without having a mirror aid. Basically, can I "feel" the posture yet. The main issue is I have to remind myself to keep my chin up, it is dropping in most of my setups if I don't think about it. 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by vandyland

[Josh Parker]

9 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Haha, it is really just an insight into my psychosis! I hope my kids never find this thread when they are older. I desperately want both a repeatable and fundamentally sound swing. I have put off the fundamentals too long because I didn't want to go through the pain of taking a bunch of steps backward. So it has been a series of bandaids for the past few years. Trying to stop that. 

I'm in the same situation.  Making changes have been brutal for me and I should be taking the same steps you are doing and dialing it in.  

[vandyland]

Practicing the setup the last few days is making it feel a little more comfortable. Went out on the range with the intent to just make sure I could get in my posture/setup and swing. I could, but I was almost immediately throwing away my tilt and extending pretty early both in the backswing and then the downswing. 

This is a very familiar swing flaw below. I have always fought this (unsuccessfully) and has ALWAYS been in my swing. #1 The yellow line starts right on my backside at setup. #2 at 1/2 way back I should be "deeper" with my hip AND my spine angle is already starting to reduce (I don't think that is good) but at least I am still in contact with the yellow line but oh wait. #3 Well, we are off the line and we have straightened up in the backswing. #4 I think we kind of stayed where we were but well off the "wall" or yellow line. Early extension, standing up, loss of spin angle, whatever you want to call it. 

So, not to try to tackle too many problems at once but this is one of the lead problems. I think part of me hoped my setup change would help in this department but it didn't. I must CONSCIOUSLY drive my trail hip up and back or else. To me, at least setup looks decent? Overall a pretty bad range session and I don't think I can even scrape it around a golf course at the moment so no golf for me this week. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by vandyland

[vandyland]

Got a chance to sneak out and hit balls at lunch today. Still practicing setup but was also trying to shoehorn a left side bend in there. Hit a TON of balls way right (my downswing is extremely steep now and there are too many other things I am thinking about to fix that at the moment) but managed to flush my last dozen or so...probably luck more than anything. If I cherry pick a good ballflight one (again, could be luck and I shouldn't worry about ball flight at this point), here are the positions I hit in my swing (camera angle is a little off center unfortunately):

The positives? Setup looks about where I want it (harder to tell with the offset camera angle) and I FELT LIKE I got a better left side bend. However, somehow my butt still extended in the backswing and I came off the "wall." Also, downswing is steep and my divots are now moving me toward the digger pattern. 

I will say, these two players look rather different:

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by vandyland

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

Got a chance to sneak out and hit balls at lunch today. Still practicing setup but was also trying to shoehorn a left side bend in there. Hit a TON of balls way right (my downswing is extremely steep now and there are too many other things I am thinking about to fix that at the moment) but managed to flush my last dozen or so...probably luck more than anything. If I cherry pick a good ballflight one (again, could be luck and I shouldn't worry about ball flight at this point), here are the positions I hit in my swing (camera angle is a little off center unfortunately):

The positives? Setup looks about where I want it (harder to tell with the offset camera angle) and I FELT LIKE I got a better left side bend. However, somehow my butt still extended in the backswing and I came off the "wall." Also, downswing is steep and my divots are now moving me toward the digger pattern. 

I will say, these two players look rather different:

 

You aren’t using pressure shifts so you will always have a hard time with the hip movements and your arms getting disconnected only make it worse. It limits rotation.

And add in late wrist set. At p2 the club be parallel to the ground yet yours has the clubhead lower than the hands. Your shoulders should be about 30° rotated hours are barely more than about 15°

[vandyland]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You aren’t using pressure shifts

Do you mind telling me more specifically. Would this be an example of the "power shift" Monte talks about? Or, put another way, I am basically not getting any pressure shifts laterally, particularly going forward in the downswing?

Good things to add to the list that RB has captured:

*New* No pressure shift (this has plagued me for most of my golf swing)
*New* Late/no/poor wrist set
Lack of hip depth
Too upright/flat shoulder and hip turn (needs left side bend which hopefully works in concert with hip depth)
Hands too low and flat at top of backswing
Early extension in both backswing and downswing

Wow. This getting worse by the day. 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by vandyland

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Do you mind telling me more specifically. Would this be an example of the "power shift" Monte talks about? Or, put another way, I am basically not getting any pressure shifts laterally, particularly going forward in the downswing?

Laterally. Yes it’s the power shift that Monte talks about. It doesn’t have to be a lot. By time p2 and no later than p3 you should have reached maxed pressure into the right leg. Depending on when you accomplish that while still making the backswing your body should be moving toward the center (the recentering that most talk about) then at the top and before you transition you should be 70/30 into the left leg. There should also be pressure from the feet aka ground force reaction 

a few links that get into it as well. Monte likes Jake’s stuff so it ties into what Monte teaches

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CwffOJ5LO9Y/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsRK29zv2TQ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJoulLoHHn_/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Edited December 14, 2023 by RickyBobby_PR

[BMart519]

22 hours ago, vandyland said:

The positives? Setup looks about where I want it (harder to tell with the offset camera angle) and I FELT LIKE I got a better left side bend. However, somehow my butt still extended in the backswing and I came off the "wall." Also, downswing is steep and my divots are now moving me toward the digger pattern. 

I will say, these two players look rather different:

 

Have you done a TPI assessment or other physical exam to see whether you can physically achieve the amount of side bend you need not to extend while swinging at full speed? 

[vandyland]

18 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Have you done a TPI assessment or other physical exam

I have not! I have never had a TPI assessment performed. They do offer them at my club, for a fee of course. 

I found this Porzak golf (I am starting to like him as well...) about the initial wrist hinge in the golf swing. This video was helpful:

https://youtu.be/GtLl8Lj3Nys?si=CG-HFEijr2xhyJly

Which gets my hands here:

instead of here:

Currently, I either don't hinge my wrists early (or at all) or I bow my wrist excessively and get laid off at the top/flat/etc. Might have to get a $8 swingyde to make sure I can set my wrists early/properly. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by vandyland

[RickyBobby_PR]

58 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I have not! I have never had a TPI assessment performed. They do offer them at my club, for a fee of course. 

I found this Porzak golf (I am starting to like him as well...) about the initial wrist hinge in the golf swing. This video was helpful:

https://youtu.be/GtLl8Lj3Nys?si=CG-HFEijr2xhyJly

Which gets my hands here:

instead of here:

Currently, I either don't hinge my wrists early (or at all) or I bow my wrist excessively and get laid off at the top/flat/etc. Might have to get a $8 swingyde to make sure I can set my wrists early/properly. 

Same wrist movement Monte teaches in ntc and efficient swing and same as amg along with almost every other instructor.

Porzak has some good videos for how to setup.

i believe I’ve posted some of his stuff to try and help you 

[Jim Shaw]

I am wondering if this is the forum to post this question but I will anyway.

At what point in your golf journey do you start "working" the ball? 

I suppose you have to be at a certain level however once you reach that, it is so important to be able to have command of soft fades, soft draws, any kind of movement. 

I saw a post by Jack Nicklaus recently about how to hit a fade, draw etc. 

Jack kept it simple, open your club face slightly for a fade, close your clubface slightly for a draw.

Like anything else easier said than done and practice needs to be dilligent but believe me, the opportunity will present itself probably every round so might be something "else" to think about...

[RickyBobby_PR]

Just now, Jim Shaw said:

I am wondering if this is the forum to post this question but I will anyway.

At what point in your golf journey do you start "working" the ball? 

I suppose you have to be at a certain level however once you reach that, it is so important to be able to have command of soft fades, soft draws, any kind of movement. 

I saw a post by Jack Nicklaus recently about how to hit a fade, draw etc. 

Jack kept it simple, open your club face slightly for a fade, close your clubface slightly for a draw.

Like anything else easier said than done and practice needs to be dilligent but believe me, the opportunity will present itself probably every round so might be something "else" to think about...

There is no reason to work the ball left to right or right to left unless one really wants to. The number of pros that work the ball on a regular basis is 5, not 5% but 5 golfers. I’ve heard this from multiple instructors including those who teach touring pros. They can but it brings risk into play. ZJ won two majors (the most prestigious ones in most peoples opinion) with nothing but a draw ball flight and one of them came without ever going for a par 5 in 2.

The vast majority of golfers can’t even hit a consistent stock shot. The first thing is to be able to do that consistently. Without good fundamentals and proper sequencing it becomes harder to hit consistently as face control becomes an issue. Look at pictures that get posted on various forums and groups and see how inconsistent many are even affer putting in hours and hours of work on their swing

[Jim Shaw]

24 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

There is no reason to work the ball left to right or right to left unless one really wants to. The number of pros that work the ball on a regular basis is 5, not 5% but 5 golfers. I’ve heard this from multiple instructors including those who teach touring pros. They can but it brings risk into play. ZJ won two majors (the most prestigious ones in most peoples opinion) with nothing but a draw ball flight and one of them came without ever going for a par 5 in 2.

The vast majority of golfers can’t even hit a consistent stock shot. The first thing is to be able to do that consistently. Without good fundamentals and proper sequencing it becomes harder to hit consistently as face control becomes an issue. Look at pictures that get posted on various forums and groups and see how inconsistent many are even affer putting in hours and hours of work on their swing

interesting, thanks for that.

I am wondering, at your index level, which i would say would be in the top 10% of golfers, does the opportunity come up to hit a workable shot in order to get closer to the hole? 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

15 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

interesting, thanks for that.

I am wondering, at your index level, which i would say would be in the top 10% of golfers, does the opportunity come up to hit a workable shot in order to get closer to the hole? 

 

I’m sure it does but I don’t always go pin hunting and I play lots of courses that have different levels and are in the mountains with elevation changes. Most of them have multiple bunkers around the greens. I don’t try to shape a ball into a flag. I play a stock shot nearly all the time. 
 

I minimize my risk for making large numbers.
 

I play a course that is used for US Open qualifying where most holes the layout isn’t too bad but the greens are fast and with multiple levels. Goal is to be on the right level and the correct side of the hole

heres is some proximity to the hole data. Pro’s don’t hit it as close as some might think with their wedges

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by RickyBobby_PR

[vandyland]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Same wrist movement Monte teaches in ntc and efficient swing and same as amg along with almost every other instructor.

He does, I just found Porzak's explanation of 45* angle to make sense for me in the moment. Monte's seems to be in a similar position, albeit maybe slightly deeper with the hands. I just worry about how I have misinterpreted a lot of what Monte teaches. He teaches these movements in NTC with the body "reacting" to the movements from the hands/wrists/arms. My body "reacted" with a very flat backswing which could have been a result of many things, poor setup, poor understanding, lack of "reaction", etc. I watched the Porzak video on setup and have read Jim Walron's setup along with the setup pictures I posted a few posts back and I just find that Monte's setup seems to be MUCH more upright at address or maybe I am misreading/misinterpreting it.

vs. Porzak

1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said:

At what point in your golf journey do you start "working" the ball? 

I doubt this question is directed at me but I try to hit my stock shot as often as possible. With my mega flat swing I hit a slightly pulled draw. So I played that. Unless there was a physical object in my way, I never tried to work the ball. Can't say I have any confidence really doing that. Trying to hit a massive slice would generally just result in a straight ball or a slight push. Ultimately, I have poor swing mechanics so that probably prevents me from doing a lot of things. 

That said, I play with a guy who is an 8 hdcp and I don't think I have ever lost to him, on a gross basis, but he can confidently hit a high or low draw and like 3 different types of fades. I almost think that works against him because he is always trying to carve shots into different flags. Since I am limited, I just aim for the widest part of the fairway or fattest part of the green.  

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by vandyland

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, vandyland said:

My body "reacted" with a very flat backswing which could have been a result of many things, poor setup, poor understanding, lack of "reaction", etc

The mind will get the body to do what’s needed to eventually get the club on the ball. The more out of sync things start the more work it takes to get the club to the ball consistently. We can engrain a swing that produces relatively consistent results but if we are tired or some other factor comes into play that affects the timing of our movements that’s when we see the changes in ball flight we are used to and the inconsistency. Those who practice more have the ability to time their swing better but when it goes off the rails it gets bad.

6 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I watched the Porzak video on setup and have read Jim Walron's setup along with the setup pictures I posted a few posts back and I just find that Monte's setup seems to be MUCH more upright at address or maybe I am misreading/misinterpreting it.

Monte has a similar posture to what GG teaches but if you look at his belt/hips there is tilt towards the ball which allow him to get the rotation and tilts he needs. 
 

 

[vandyland]

This is all continuing to feel like a sweater that is unraveling by the second (groundhog's day of golf swing work). At the moment it feels like there isn't one position or part of my swing that is "correct." It's like, how do you tackle all of this? In pieces or parts, yes, but when do you "have" one piece and then move on to the next. Like I feel like my posture is getting consistent (at least it seems to "look" like I am in the same angles that JT/Porzak are close to) so now do I move to the first part of the takeaway? That wrist set being in the right place, the shoulders and hips opening at their correct rates? If I were to go play for some reason what, if any of this stuff, do I try to take out there or do I just swing with no thoughts? (I have never been able to play without at least one swing thought/feel)

This is the big challenge for me in golf. I feel like I have the time/desire to go hit balls and practice. But it is the UNCERTAINTY of whether or not my positions/feels/theories about the golf swing are correct or if I am just building more habits. I realize this is where an instructor comes in but they, too, could also be giving me incorrect information. Or I could just not "speak their language" in what they are telling me is correct but I am just being a bad student and misinterpreting it. 

Unfortunately, I want a certain aesthetic in my swing. I don't want to keep compromising on that. I realize that may be wholly or at least in part vanity. I'm always drowning over here. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by vandyland