Question for Shaft Experts

[tony@CIC]

I'm toying around with the idea of replacing my Stealth 2 Driver shaft, keep in mind, I have been fitted several times. However, this is real world experience with large amounts of data acquired through Shotscope: I'm a consistently long hitter with my 3 wood (R Flex Radspeed Evenflow Riptide CB shaft 50 g.), While my drives are longer then my 3 wood, I'm less consistent in distance with Stealth 2 driver (R Flex Fuji Speeder NX approx 50g.). Both are R Flex and both are reasonably consistent in dispersion, however, there is a big difference between the two shafts in torque (yes I know there are different ways to measure it) and kickpoint.  As a result, I'm toying with the idea of upgrading my Speeder NX.  I could go to CC and spend $100 to get a driver fitting and then $300-400. for one of their custom shafts, but what if I just pop for a Project X driver shaft that has the same profile as my 3 wood Evenflow? 

Edit: Yes I did have several driver fittings and no I'm not interested in upgrading my Stealth 2. It's been the best of all of my previous drivers, including Callaway and Ping. 

Edited February 17 by tony@CIC

[rkj427]

@tony@CIC you may want to give that a try, as it should be a less expensive attempt to replicate the success you seem to have with your 3 wood shaft.

The EI profiles of the Speeder NX and Project X appear to be different, with the Project X having a "softer" mid-section profile than the Speeder NX shaft.

You can look at the Fujikura site to get basic information on the Speeder NX, and I subscribe to Russ Ryden's shaft site where he had detailed information on the Project X shaft, but none on the Speeder NX models.

Project X Information below: 

 

Edited February 17 by rkj427

[KC Golf]

Interesting question….  

Just some initial thoughts…  I found in my fit for drivers last year that the Stealth 2 is quite penal for shots not hit on the screws.  When hit on the screws it was the longest of all the drivers I tested, but it was very fickle.  So this may be a club head issue vs a shaft issue.  Have you tried the Q10, I hear that it’s better on off center hits.

[tony@CIC]

19 hours ago, KC Golf said:

Interesting question….  

Just some initial thoughts…  I found in my fit for drivers last year that the Stealth 2 is quite penal for shots not hit on the screws.  When hit on the screws it was the longest of all the drivers I tested, but it was very fickle.  So this may be a club head issue vs a shaft issue.  Have you tried the Q10, I hear that it’s better on off center hits.

I could spend the $600 for the Q10 but looking for an inexpensive upgrade to narrow the difference in drive #'s. On average, the Stealth 2 is the longest driver I've had/tested and at this point and I love everything about it - I'm just tinkering to add a bit more consistency. Note: I'm happy with the distance on my shorter drives - I would just like to have every drive look like my longest drive. 

Additional background: I spend a lot of time on the range with impact tape to ensure swing consistency, and I'm almost OCD about set-up (I even have a special mark on my tees), so I'm less concerned about hitting it on the screws. The distance differential could be the result of physical (starting out cold on the first tee or sluggishness and need a quick energy fix) ,or it could be mental (having to hit a drive over a water). Or maybe this is just a desire to spend $100 on equipment since I haven't bought anything recently. 

[tony@CIC]

21 hours ago, rkj427 said:

@tony@CIC you may want to give that a try, as it should be a less expensive attempt to replicate the success you seem to have with your 3 wood shaft.

The EI profiles of the Speeder NX and Project X appear to be different, with the Project X having a "softer" mid-section profile than the Speeder NX shaft.

You can look at the Fujikura site to get basic information on the Speeder NX, and I subscribe to Russ Ryden's shaft site where he had detailed information on the Project X shaft, but none on the Speeder NX models.

Project X Information below: 

 

A big thx for doing the research on the Riptide and search on the Speeder. BTW not much info on the Fuji site. 

Interesting info on the Riptide, especially the CB which is what I have on my 3 wood. The lack of info on the Speeder NX might be due to it's 'newness'. It seems to have appeared with the Stealth 2 as a stock shaft. My SIM 2 had a Fuji Airspeeder 49g shaft and a fellow golfer who has a Stealth has an identical stock Airspeeder. 

If you do run across Airspeeder that would be great. In the meantime I might just search online for a discounted Riptide CB driver shaft to quench that desire to burn through some equipment money and have a bit of fun experimenting. 

Edited February 18 by tony@CIC

[chisag]

On 2/17/2024 at 7:19 AM, tony@CIC said:

I'm toying around with the idea of replacing my Stealth 2 Driver shaft, keep in mind, I have been fitted several times. However, this is real world experience with large amounts of data acquired through Shotscope: I'm a consistently long hitter with my 3 wood (R Flex Radspeed Evenflow Riptide CB shaft 50 g.), While my drives are longer then my 3 wood, I'm less consistent in distance with Stealth 2 driver (R Flex Fuji Speeder NX approx 50g.). Both are R Flex and both are reasonably consistent in dispersion, however, there is a big difference between the two shafts in torque (yes I know there are different ways to measure it) and kickpoint.  As a result, I'm toying with the idea of upgrading my Speeder NX.  I could go to CC and spend $100 to get a driver fitting and then $300-400. for one of their custom shafts, but what if I just pop for a Project X driver shaft that has the same profile as my 3 wood Evenflow? 

 

2 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Interesting info on the Riptide, especially the CB which is what I have on my 3 wood. The lack of info on the Speeder NX might be due to it's 'newness'. It seems to have appeared with the Stealth 2 as a stock shaft. My SIM 2 had a Fuji Airspeeder 49g shaft and a fellow golfer who has a Stealth has an identical stock Airspeeder. 

If you do run across Airspeeder that would be great. In the meantime I might just search online for a discounted Riptide CB driver shaft to quench that desire to burn through some equipment money and have a bit of fun experimenting. 

 

... This is the cornerstone of being a golf equipment junkie on a golf forum.  I am an shaft Ho and really enjoy trying and playing different shafts. I know what kind of profile works for my swing but will occasionally brach out to something outside my parameters just to see how it works for me. I take advantage of as many free demo days as I can and it gives me a chance to try different shafts. I will only do so if I am interested in the head because I am not gonna abuse a free fitting with no interest in the product as I think that is unfair to the OEM and the Fitter. 

... To address your issue, there is a pretty big difference between the two shafts you are looking at. You will find the Riptide CB shaft in plenty of tour players clubs, especially the LPGA and Champions tour. You wont find a TM Made For Speeder NX in any Pro's bag. It is quite a different shaft than the after market Speeder NX Blue and Green. The TM NX Red is a good stock shaft for the average Am that needs more height and a soft feel with some kick, but it is basically a Super Game Improvement shaft. 

... Back to the original question and comment, many of us think it's fun to try shafts on our own, especially if you have had success with that shaft in a fairway wood. As a medium speed smooth swinger, my fairway shafts usually work well in my driver too. But someone with a more aggressive transition may need something with a stiffer tip in the driver. 

... For a comparison TM lists their NX Red as a High Launch/Mid Spin shaft and the Riptide as a Mid Launch/Mid Spin shaft. In my fittings with the Stealth2 I find that to be pretty accurate as the NX Red launched very high for me. 

[funkyjudge]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... This is the cornerstone of being a golf equipment junkie on a golf forum.  I am an shaft Ho and really enjoy trying and playing different shafts. I know what kind of profile works for my swing but will occasionally brach out to something outside my parameters just to see how it works for me. I take advantage of as many free demo days as I can and it gives me a chance to try different shafts. I will only do so if I am interested in the head because I am not gonna abuse a free fitting with no interest in the product as I think that is unfair to the OEM and the Fitter. 

... To address your issue, there is a pretty big difference between the two shafts you are looking at. You will find the Riptide CB shaft in plenty of tour players clubs, especially the LPGA and Champions tour. You wont find a TM Made For Speeder NX in any Pro's bag. It is quite a different shaft than the after market Speeder NX Blue and Green. The TM NX Red is a good stock shaft for the average Am that needs more height and a soft feel with some kick, but it is basically a Super Game Improvement shaft. 

... Back to the original question and comment, many of us think it's fun to try shafts on our own, especially if you have had success with that shaft in a fairway wood. As a medium speed smooth swinger, my fairway shafts usually work well in my driver too. But someone with a more aggressive transition may need something with a stiffer tip in the driver. 

... For a comparison TM lists their NX Red as a High Launch/Mid Spin shaft and the Riptide as a Mid Launch/Mid Spin shaft. In my fittings with the Stealth2 I find that to be pretty accurate as the NX Red launched very high for me. 

Great info, Sam!

One other factor that the OP should consider is that the Evnflow Riptide CB is a counterbalanced shaft. Switching to that shaft would necessitate one of, or a combination of, the following:

1. Playing the driver at a longer length (almost certainly not desirable, as improved consistency and dispersion is the goal).
2. Adding weight to the clubhead.
3. Settling for a decrease of at least 3 or 4 swingweight points.

Just some additional food for thought.

Edited February 18 by funkyjudge
Typo

[RickyBobby_PR]

Another example of why saying two shafts have the same flex, they only have the same letter stamped on them based on what the manufacturer decides.

The riptide cb r flex is going to be different from the riptide r flex (non cb shaft) despite the same letter on them.

the profile of the shaft cb, linear design, etc along with the stiffness profile are way more important than some random letter a manufacture puts on their shaft.

I would avoid going to CC and doing a fitting, the chances you need a $300-400 shaft are probably minimal. Would a riptide cb in r flex at 50g or maybe heavier work in your driver? Its possible, not always a guarantee and sometimes people need different shaft profile between the two clubs.

It could be the tip stiffness in the fujikura that you don’t get along with. it could be the overall profile.

a better option is to a pgatoursuperstor, 2ndswing or similar and tryin different stock shafts and see what fits, then buy that shaft 

[tony@CIC]

21 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... This is the cornerstone of being a golf equipment junkie on a golf forum.  I am an shaft Ho and really enjoy trying and playing different shafts. I know what kind of profile works for my swing but will occasionally brach out to something outside my parameters just to see how it works for me. I take advantage of as many free demo days as I can and it gives me a chance to try different shafts. I will only do so if I am interested in the head because I am not gonna abuse a free fitting with no interest in the product as I think that is unfair to the OEM and the Fitter. 

... To address your issue, there is a pretty big difference between the two shafts you are looking at. You will find the Riptide CB shaft in plenty of tour players clubs, especially the LPGA and Champions tour. You wont find a TM Made For Speeder NX in any Pro's bag. It is quite a different shaft than the after market Speeder NX Blue and Green. The TM NX Red is a good stock shaft for the average Am that needs more height and a soft feel with some kick, but it is basically a Super Game Improvement shaft. 

... Back to the original question and comment, many of us think it's fun to try shafts on our own, especially if you have had success with that shaft in a fairway wood. As a medium speed smooth swinger, my fairway shafts usually work well in my driver too. But someone with a more aggressive transition may need something with a stiffer tip in the driver. 

... For a comparison TM lists their NX Red as a High Launch/Mid Spin shaft and the Riptide as a Mid Launch/Mid Spin shaft. In my fittings with the Stealth2 I find that to be pretty accurate as the NX Red launched very high for me. 

Thanks @chisag, like yourself, I would classify myself a medium speed smooth swinger. Looking at the chart, a couple of interesting thoughts: I have a King 59 5 wood that I retired with a stock Helium shaft which I hated., the other is that the Speeder is the stock shaft for the QI 10 Max - which I assume is their SGI head. 

[chisag]

2 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Thanks @chisag, like yourself, I would classify myself a medium speed smooth swinger. Looking at the chart, a couple of interesting thoughts: I have a King 59 5 wood that I retired with a stock Helium shaft which I hated., the other is that the Speeder is the stock shaft for the QI 10 Max - which I assume is their SGI head. 

 

... Nit piking a little, I would hesitate to call the Qi10 Max an SGi driver. Yes, it is technically more forgiving but depending on how you swing and your AoA some just need more spin and a higher trajectory that the Max produces. Nelly Korda and Colin Morikawa both play the Qi10 Max. But you are correct and for the average Am, the stock NX Speeder shafts in the Max is certainly a softer tip and higher launch.

... Fwiw, I found the Qi10 Max with its 10,000 MOI less forgiving than my Stealth2 HD even though it has an MOI of around 8600. I will admit it is probably more mental than physical as the head looks huge to my eye and the rounded spaceship at address did not fill me with confidence. It just felt "unwieldy" and not sure I took more than a few of what I would call my best swings with it. I gave it a 7 full rounds before taking advantage of the 90 day playability policy and exchanged it for the standard Qi10. I'm taking it out for my first round today with an AD-IZ shaft but will also try my Ventus Red Velo, Kai'li Blue and a Diamana LTD. I am looking forward to see if it can remain in my bag or I go back to my Stealth2 HD. 

[funkyjudge]

12 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Nit piking a little, I would hesitate to call the Qi10 Max an SGi driver. Yes, it is technically more forgiving but depending on how you swing and your AoA some just need more spin and a higher trajectory that the Max produces. Nelly Korda and Colin Morikawa both play the Qi10 Max. But you are correct and for the average Am, the stock NX Speeder shafts in the Max is certainly a softer tip and higher launch.

... Fwiw, I found the Qi10 Max with its 10,000 MOI less forgiving than my Stealth2 HD even though it has an MOI of around 8600. I will admit it is probably more mental than physical as the head looks huge to my eye and the rounded spaceship at address did not fill me with confidence. It just felt "unwieldy" and not sure I took more than a few of what I would call my best swings with it. I gave it a 7 full rounds before taking advantage of the 90 day playability policy and exchanged it for the standard Qi10. I'm taking it out for my first round today with an AD-IZ shaft but will also try my Ventus Red Velo, Kai'li Blue and a Diamana LTD. I am looking forward to see if it can remain in my bag or I go back to my Stealth2 HD. 

That's a great analysis, Sam!  I stopped going by what the manufacturers and reviews said about which drivers, fairways (and even irons) were "more forgiving" vs "less forgiving" a few years ago. I had tried the Callaway Rogue ST Max driver and it was pretty forgiving, but then I hit the Rogue ST LS Triple Diamond driver, which was billed as Callaway's "least forgiving" driver. For me, the Triple Diamond LS model was a much better fit and gave me better (and more consistent) performance. I'm a high-spin player and I make contact pretty close to the middle (on the high side of the center of the face), and my predominant misses are slightly high-toe misses.  This makes the LS TD head a "no brainer" for me, with the higher amount of spin that I usually generate, and I went from more than 2,650 RPM with the Rogue ST Max head to between 2,000 - 2,150 RPM with the LS TD model. As long as I keep swinging at 95+ MPH with a 3 to 4 degree positive AOA, the so-called "less forgiving" driver is a better fit for me.

FWIW, I kept the Rogue ST LS TD head and just put the Newton Motion shaft in it to see how that combination works for me. Admittedly, the HZRDUS Black Gen 4 shaft that was originally in the Rogue ST LS TD did not make for an ideal head/shaft combination (a HZRDUS Silver Gen 4 was much better, as was a Tensei Blue AV Raw shaft).

Just goes to show that "less forgiving" for some golfers can be "more forgiving" for others, and vice-versa.  For you, it appears that the 10,000+ MOI head is not necessarily better or more forgiving than the "less forgiving" 8600 MOI driver head!

Edited February 20 by funkyjudge

[tony@CIC]

2 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

Rogue ST LS TD head and just put the Newton Motion shaft in it to see how that combination works for me.

So how did the Newton shaft work for you? I've got some golf bucks to burn but now sure I want to experiment with a $250 shaft. 

[funkyjudge]

1 hour ago, tony@CIC said:

So how did the Newton shaft work for you? I've got some golf bucks to burn but now sure I want to experiment with a $250 shaft. 

I haven’t hit the Rogue ST LS TD driver with the Newton shaft in it. Indoors, that will happen tomorrow on the SIM and launch monitor.  If that goes well, I will play it in my winter tour event on Thursday; if not, the Newton shaft isn’t likely to see any further action for a while, if at all.

I am in contention for Player of the Year on the winter golf tour, with 7 events to go, and I am going to miss at least one, and possibly two, events out of those seven. Because of this, I can’t risk playing in any of these events with a shaft with which I don’t have 100% confidence.

Edited February 19 by funkyjudge

[G0al3d]

On 2/17/2024 at 10:02 AM, KC Golf said:

Interesting question….  

Just some initial thoughts…  I found in my fit for drivers last year that the Stealth 2 is quite penal for shots not hit on the screws.  When hit on the screws it was the longest of all the drivers I tested, but it was very fickle.  So this may be a club head issue vs a shaft issue.  Have you tried the Q10, I hear that it’s better on off center hits.

I concur with this, Stealth kicked my ass if I didn’t middle it…but my GOD when I did it was long.

[funkyjudge]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:23 PM, tony@CIC said:

So how did the Newton shaft work for you? I've got some golf bucks to burn but now sure I want to experiment with a $250 shaft. 

I played in my indoor SIM league last night, with the Newton shaft in my old Rogue ST LS Triple Diamond driver (9* loft, set at the standard/neutral adapter setting). If you have read my comments about being super-sore and stiff from too much working out, especially on the upper body, yesterday only a few hours before golf, you'll know that I had a poor ball-striking evening. However, the driver performed really well with that Newton shaft in it (spin was reduced by about 500-600 RPM and I got AT LEAST 15 yards of additional carry with less of a pronounced draw flight. I did hit two balls that all of us thought would be absolute bombs in the fairway, while cutting the corners on two dogleg-left holes over the rocks (we played Wolf Creek in Mesquite, Nevada http://www.golfwolfcreek.com/-about-wolf-creek which has many holes like this ..... thanks, Dennis Rider (Architect) and on the screen, it appeared that I had cleared the rocks both times, but I didn't know that there was a ravine past the rocks on one hole, and more smaller rocks on another.  Results = two "unplayable" lies and penalty strokes.  Both times, I aimed a little further right and hit the fairway with my second tee shots (268 and 279-yard drives).  My backspin numbers with this shaft in the Triple Diamond low-spin clubhead were right at 2,000 to 2,150 RPM on a consistent basis, where they were 2,600 - 2,700 RPM or higher with the shaft in my 10.5* Paradym X driver (set down to 9.5* loft). Thus, I got about 20 yards of additional carry and 23 to 44 yards of additional distance overall with the Rogue LS TD driver and Newton shaft.  My launch angle came down from 15.5* - 17* to just about 13* (no higher than 13.4*) by switching to the Rogue LS TD head, and it's in my bag for my tournament tomorrow.

[tony@CIC]

6 hours ago, funkyjudge said:

I played in my indoor SIM league last night, with the Newton shaft in my old Rogue ST LS Triple Diamond driver (9* loft, set at the standard/neutral adapter setting). If you have read my comments about being super-sore and stiff from too much working out, especially on the upper body, yesterday only a few hours before golf, you'll know that I had a poor ball-striking evening. However, the driver performed really well with that Newton shaft in it (spin was reduced by about 500-600 RPM and I got AT LEAST 15 yards of additional carry with less of a pronounced draw flight. I did hit two balls that all of us thought would be absolute bombs in the fairway, while cutting the corners on two dogleg-left holes over the rocks (we played Wolf Creek in Mesquite, Nevada http://www.golfwolfcreek.com/-about-wolf-creek which has many holes like this ..... thanks, Dennis Rider (Architect) and on the screen, it appeared that I had cleared the rocks both times, but I didn't know that there was a ravine past the rocks on one hole, and more smaller rocks on another.  Results = two "unplayable" lies and penalty strokes.  Both times, I aimed a little further right and hit the fairway with my second tee shots (268 and 279-yard drives).  My backspin numbers with this shaft in the Triple Diamond low-spin clubhead were right at 2,000 to 2,150 RPM on a consistent basis, where they were 2,600 - 2,700 RPM or higher with the shaft in my 10.5* Paradym X driver (set down to 9.5* loft). Thus, I got about 20 yards of additional carry and 23 to 44 yards of additional distance overall with the Rogue LS TD driver and Newton shaft.  My launch angle came down from 15.5* - 17* to just about 13* (no higher than 13.4*) by switching to the Rogue LS TD head, and it's in my bag for my tournament tomorrow.

That data looks very promising. I might have to pop for the $250. 

[funkyjudge]

42 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

That data looks very promising. I might have to pop for the $250. 

Don’t do it based on my results; everyone is going to get different results. I swing the driver with a 3* to 4* upward AOA, and I always try to make ball contact slightly above the middle of the driver face. The deeper face on the Rogue ST LS TD driver helps me achieve that (I don’t know why I ever switched to the Paradym X driver, as I hit some of my longest drives of the last decade with that Rogue ST triple diamond driver). Not everyone, and especially not a lot of 74-75 year old golfers, are able to do this!

[tony@CIC]

Thx for the quick response. Yup, I understand the "your results may vary" clause, but I have been back and forth with them on what I was looking for and needed.  I've been looking for a new shaft for my Stealth 2 since I don't feel that the current Speeder NX optimizes my swing.