L.A.B. DF3 Putters - 2024 Forum Review

[Steve F]

Okay, so while on the mend and able to put my right foot firmly on terra firma again, I broke out the new putting aids (putting mirror and putting edge tool) and knowledge and headed directly to the kitchen, aka, the indoor practice green. It's pickleball night and I won't be playing that any time soon, that's a fact!

I have the ball set at 6.5' from the centre hole in my practice green. Working the alignment and setup knowledge that is freshly acquired I've set out to establish new and proper address and alignment. I knew going in that I'd be towing the putter head down with the knowledge of keeping the forearm in line with the putter shaft, and man does it show in this video. Nonetheless, left eye over the ball, shoulders square to the target and allowing my arms to hang, the pendulum motion, while initially feeling odd now has a comfortable feel to it. A very light grip and allowing the arms to hang and flow: I think I finally understand this motion: now I need to wash, rinse and repeat so that it becomes second nature. I didn't count the makes, that was not the important thing here. What was and is important at this juncture is address and alignment, and with the help and input of my friends here and Mike at Club Champion, I feel confident that with continued practice and repetition this will become second nature, much like the repetition of bad habits got me in trouble to begin with! With that, the putts will start falling more consistently. I still have that little twist after contact that I need to work on, but it appears I'm getting more confident with striking squarely at impact, at least for now! The Mamba continues to feel solid and dependable and I do love the feel it has at impact. 

 

 

[golfguy94]

13 hours ago, MattWillGolf said:

It appears that a segment of our golf community, cost is no barrier. Especially when it comes to putters.
 

oh.  I tried yesterday, the sold out in under a minute.  saw someone on ebay trying to get like 3,400 already.  they won't even ship for 6-8 weeks.

[Rob Person]

2 hours ago, Steve F said:

Okay, so while on the mend and able to put my right foot firmly on terra firma again, I broke out the new putting aids (putting mirror and putting edge tool) and knowledge and headed directly to the kitchen, aka, the indoor practice green. It's pickleball night and I won't be playing that any time soon, that's a fact!

I have the ball set at 6.5' from the centre hole in my practice green. Working the alignment and setup knowledge that is freshly acquired I've set out to establish new and proper address and alignment. I knew going in that I'd be towing the putter head down with the knowledge of keeping the forearm in line with the putter shaft, and man does it show in this video. Nonetheless, left eye over the ball, shoulders square to the target and allowing my arms to hang, the pendulum motion, while initially feeling odd now has a comfortable feel to it. A very light grip and allowing the arms to hang and flow: I think I finally understand this motion: now I need to wash, rinse and repeat so that it becomes second nature. I didn't count the makes, that was not the important thing here. What was and is important at this juncture is address and alignment, and with the help and input of my friends here and Mike at Club Champion, I feel confident that with continued practice and repetition this will become second nature, much like the repetition of bad habits got me in trouble to begin with! With that, the putts will start falling more consistently. I still have that little twist after contact that I need to work on, but it appears I'm getting more confident with striking squarely at impact, at least for now! The Mamba continues to feel solid and dependable and I do love the feel it has at impact. 

 

 

Did I miss it somewhere?  Is the heel of the putter supposed to be off the ground?

[Steve F]

9 hours ago, Rob Person said:

Did I miss it somewhere?  Is the heel of the putter supposed to be off the ground?

No @Rob Person: What I've done here is taken my newly acquired knowledge and have started applying it. Forearm in alignment with the putter shaft, left eye over the ball, shoulders square and aligned with the target. The putter heel, for my current setup, comes off the ground when I align properly, unfortunately.

 

Valuable lesson learned: while an online fitting is great and a time and money saver, I recommend highly getting a fitting done in person. A lot more information can be gathered and alignments put in proper positions with an in person fitting! 

[Rob Person]

40 minutes ago, Steve F said:

No @Rob Person: What I've done here is taken my newly acquired knowledge and have started applying it. Forearm in alignment with the putter shaft, left eye over the ball, shoulders square and aligned with the target. The putter heel, for my current setup, comes off the ground when I align properly, unfortunately.

 

Valuable lesson learned: while an online fitting is great and a time and money saver, I recommend highly getting a fitting done in person. A lot more information can be gathered and alignments put in proper positions with an in person fitting! 

Thanks for that. For a moment I actually was beginning to think " no wonder so many persons are having trouble adapting to these putters"  makes more sense now

[cnosil]

56 minutes ago, Steve F said:

No @Rob Person: What I've done here is taken my newly acquired knowledge and have started applying it. Forearm in alignment with the putter shaft, left eye over the ball, shoulders square and aligned with the target. The putter heel, for my current setup, comes off the ground when I align properly, unfortunately

Valuable lesson learned: while an online fitting is great and a time and money saver, I recommend highly getting a fitting done in person. A lot more information can be gathered and alignments put in proper positions with an in person fitting! 

 

Eyes over the ball, forearms in line with the shaft are choices and often considered a "putting myth".   Many instructors advocate for eyes inside the ball.  Tiger Woods putter doesn't align with his forearms.  

https://www.instagram.com/p/C6y3ckSr2mt/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

There will always be players that do things differently.  

The question about your valuable lesson is was the fitting the problem or that you needed to work on your putting setup?  When should they fit you to what you do versus changing what you do?   Are you more likely to revert back to what you did versus the new approach over time?

All of that said, if you are struggling with an area of your game moving toward a more "stock" setup is probably a good idea.

[ole gray]

Guys I tried a bunch of putts from off the green recently with poor results. Not sure if that little hole in the bag is snagging on something but it's been a challenge.  Mostly it's a distance control issue.. Anyone else having issues putting from off the green?

[Cfhandyman]

1 hour ago, ole gray said:

Guys I tried a bunch of putts from off the green recently with poor results. Not sure if that little hole in the bag is snagging on something but it's been a challenge.  Mostly it's a distance control issue.. Anyone else having issues putting from off the green?

Initially this was a challenge with the Texas wedge off the greens.  It took a bit of getting used to and deciding when putter was best option or gap wedge with a putting stroke.  Key, I think was long pendulum like stroke and not trying to force it.

[Cfhandyman]

SAM PuttLab: How does it work, what do the numbers mean and what does good look like: A mini review – Part 1

Coming soon: Part 2 – SAM Puttlab versus Quintic, what are the similarities and differences

The putter is the most used club in your bag accounting for 35 – 40% of your strokes, yet the percentage of golfers fit for a putter is only about 5% to 19%, compared to 55% - 66% for the driver (Golf Datatech, MGS, GolfDigest).  Today, we will start a two part mini review on Science and Motion’s (SAM) Puttlab.  Part 1 will cover how it works, what do the numbers mean and what does good look like.  Part 2 will compare SAM Puttlab to Quintic, what are the similarities, intended uses and differences.  The Quintic ball roll system was previously reviewed (link at end).

Technology: SAM Puttlab was developed by Science and Motion Sports, a company specializing in golf swing analysis and training systems.  It uses ultrasound sensors to track the movement of the putter during the entire stroke, including backswing and impact.  A sensor is attached to the putter shaft which then measures data providing real time feedback (see figure below).  Your data is compared to a reference sample of 99 PGA tour professionals.

     

Data Provided: It focuses on the putting stroke, timing, and biomechanics (alignment, swing path, face angle, impact position and tempo).

Accuracy: It is highly accurate for stroke mechanics and provides immediate feedback on stroke and is best for golfers focusing on stroke improvement.  The machine tracks where you make impact, how your striking speed differs or compares to your tap-ins, your stroke path, and many, many more elements.  The sensor that attaches to the putter shaft is 48gmm so it will effect swing weight, but this can be minimized by placing at counter balance point.  The resolution of the system is 0.1mm and 0.1 degrees

Fundamentals of a putting stroke:  It looks at Aim, direction, path geometry and impact spot, face rotation, loft and rise and movement dynamics.  Below is the SAM protocol used, using a length fitted putter.  It uses your putter in the first step.

Key metrics measured: 

What do the numbers mean

The Score rating represents the deviation of the player’s average performance from a theoretical optimal technical data value. The optimal data value is either defined through the task itself (e.g., square aiming or center-hit spot) or defined by the PGA Tour data sample (e.g., backswing ratio or face rotation). A Score of 100% indicates no tendency and optimal technique. A Score of 75% relates to +/- 1 SD (standard deviation) of the distribution and thus indicates that about 32% of the Tour players have a technique that is farther away from the optimum.  A Consistency rating of 75% indicates a performance that is equally good as 50% of the Tour players.  Bottom line, 75% is pretty darn good.

The system provides objective data on your putting stroke, including clubface angle, path, and impact position.  Below is the comparison data for a 15 handicap amateur versus the PGA tour pro.  To no ones surprise, the tour pros are highly consistent, particularly as it applies to face aim, direction, path and impact spot versus the 15 handicap amateur.

The other major difference is that the tour player has a very smooth and consistent face rotation versus the 15 Hcp amateur, where it is increased and inconsistent rotation in the follow through, usually the result of over active hands.  See below.

Overall, SAM Puttlab provides excellent data on the putter and how it moves through the putting stroke.  As a result, one can identify strengths and areas for improvement and then develop a training plan.

References:

1.  SAM (www.scienceandmotion.com )

2.  C. Marquardt, SAM PuttLab: Concept and PGA tour data, Annual Review of golf coaching, pg 101-114) 2007

3.  Club Champion (US)

Quintic review - part 2

 

Edited June 15 by Cfhandyman

[golfguy94]

6 hours ago, cnosil said:

Eyes over the ball, forearms in line with the shaft are choices and often considered a "putting myth".   Many instructors advocate for eyes inside the ball.  Tiger Woods putter doesn't align with his forearms.  

https://www.instagram.com/p/C6y3ckSr2mt/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

There will always be players that do things differently.  

The question about your valuable lesson is was the fitting the problem or that you needed to work on your putting setup?  When should they fit you to what you do versus changing what you do?   Are you more likely to revert back to what you did versus the new approach over time?

All of that said, if you are struggling with an area of your game moving toward a more "stock" setup is probably a good idea.

yes to your points.  My problem with club champion and anyone with Putter fittings when you start adding things to the putter itself, you are dramatically changing the dynamics of the putter.  the swingweight, the look, the amount of force to move the additional weight.  when I had an live fitting with the Aki over at Sacks Parente (which was about an hour long and several putts without adding anything to it), we discussed how some of this putter stuff impacts the putter itself and the person as well.  I'm not saying that fittings are a bad idea, don't misunderstand me.  however, I wouldn't change everything because my readings were different once I added a large device to the front of the shaft of my putter.  there is no perfect setup for putting.  I like my eyes inside the ball, not right over it.  it's worked well for me for decades at this point.  the downside of in-person can be that you are rolling several putts and start to manipulate things, and you're rolling the same putt over and over.  a putting mirror is great training aid, as is a path arc trainer.  imo though you can't beat a good old gate drill and ball drill.  if your putter is square at impact and starting on the right line, then you are good to go.  Tiger has used those forever.

[Cfhandyman]

Week 8 Normal Summary of the L.A.B. DF3

@Cfhandyman Last 10 rounds with the L.A.B. DF3 putter (Arccos) compared to a 0 handicap.  So the game overall has improved with the biggest improvement coming in the short game and putting.  Majority of my practice is from 100 yards and in.  Driving has improved slightly but approach play (125 yds to 200 yds) needs more work, but the biggest improvement has been in the short game and putting..

   

    

50 round average with Evnroll putter compared to a 0 handicap golfer (Arccos).  So basically I'm giving up 6.6 strokes versus a 0 handicap.

 

@jbern Thank you for the additional explanation! I now understand that the numbers are being compared to a 0 hdcp. I think that's where I was getting held up in my thought processes. Arccos provides excellent data for where to improve!

@Steve F My scores have gotten slightly better overall, but when I have a stinker round, it really stinks. I have some more on course data to share that isn't so glowing... but in the midst of a mediocre at best round, the putting showed some signs of holding it together while other parts of the game were not so hot. Those numbers are coming! I blurred out the overall scores because the group I was with wanted to scramble, so the approaches were not all mine. All the putting is, however, as that was the caveat that I had with the group in playing this round: I have to do all my own putting, which I did, and the putting for this round was great vs my history! Putting with the Mamba and the additional attention paid to putting have made a world of difference from my perspective and from the group I normally play with on Sundays. They have all noticed much better putting from my bag.... so, yes. The putting seems to be improving!

@jbern Had my best putting round of the year yesterday! I took my daughter along with me because she had a 1/2 day of school. I wish I would've been taking video during this round!  THIRTEEN total putts for 9 holes, including FIVE one-putts and four two-putts! See below for detailed stats:

 I had two good practice sessions earlier in the week and changed a few things. In my stance, I moved the ball forward about half a ball from where it was. To my eye, it looks like my nose is slightly behind where the shaft meets the putter head. In my routine, I removed taking practice strokes. I focus on getting the line on the ball pointed where I want to start the putt and then step up and focus on how far back I need to take the putter for speed and that's it. I will keep these things rolling and hopefully the stellar putting continues.

Response to weekly summaries

@MattWillGolf Thanks for this Chris. Always so well done and very much appreciated

@jbernWow, another great summary from @Cfhandyman and what a busy week it was!

@MattWillGolf I went out for 9 holes yesterday. I carded 19 putts for the nine. Overall I am happy with the results. I had three 3-putts, four 2-putts and two 1-putts. The 3-putts have been particularly galling because of the distance of the putt. They are usually in the 1-2 foot range. One of the things I did learn from my Club Champion session was I consistently aiming left of target with the DF3. I do have a Shot Scope H4 but my home course gives the tracking fits. The GPS says I’m on the green when I’m not and occasion it does not even recognize that I am on the green when I am standing dead center in the green. It appears the Arccos has a definite upper hand in this regard after reading posts from my fellow testers. 

@CFreddie Thanks for the summary - I wouldn't say Arccos is perfect either, but it does sound like SS has some location issues.  Keep up the good work!  On the left aim - why do you think that is?  Curious if the fitter gave you any feedback on that portion - super interesting!

@CFreddie I have a "Putting Perfect" mat (DJ endorsed lol), which has two different tracks (normal size hole and a smaller hole for more intense practice) and set distances at 2 through 8 feet.  For this practice, I putted 10 balls with each putter at each 2' segment, alternating between putters at each distance.  As you can see, Chewie is currently outperforming my gamer across each distance, which is reassuring.  I'll continue updating this spreadsheet for each session and share weekly updates going forward.  

@jbern Looks like Chewie had a good showing on the Perfect Practice mat! Seems like a great way to get some confidence on those all important short putts! 
How did Chewie feel compared to the Scotty when using the mat?

@Cfhandyman Lab rat put on a clinic yesterday. 28 putt round including 8 one hole putts and no three putts.  6 to 8 footer for par.  No problem dad. 10 and 12 footer, also to save par. No sweat. 35 footer, stopped 1 inch short of going in. It was scary good. It was almost like I could take the head cover off and whisper in her ear, get the ball in the hole.

@jbern I was able to get out for 9 holes yesterday and had another good putting performance from Dory! 14 total putts, 4 one putts, 5 two putts! I really had only one “bad” putt, but then made the 7’ comeback putt! 

@Michael.Sandoval33 I was going to say, your 14 through 9 actually pairs up well to @Cfhandyman and his 28 through 18. Man, what I wouldn't give to shave off 5-7 putting strokes a round 

@ole gray Well folks my DF3 is in the bag and the way I'm rolling the rock I see some closet time for my Mezz Max Broom! Let me tell ya'll what happened today as I was at my course practicing. A guy looked over and said, "ain't that the putter everybody is making a fuss about on the internet"! I said hell yea as sure as grits are groceries. He spit out a chew and asked if he could roll one. I handed him my putter and said be careful hoss, these things are highly addicting. He was about 20 feet from the cup and drained that sucker like a water bug in a breams mouth. His eyes got big and he started slobbing and I could only tell a little bit about what he was saying. I could make out some of it where he said take this damn thing back before my wife whups my arse for buying one

   

@MattWillGolf Today was a nice practice session with Nemo. I was taking advantage of time with the various putting aids from PuttOut. I also practiced without my thumbs on the grip to see if I can nail “the take manipulation” out of my putting stroke. It will take some further getting used to to be sure

@Steve F  Okay. So I had the opportunity to hit my Club Champion on Friday, thankfully prior to wrecking my calf! I am going to open by saying it was an eye opening experience. I have never been fit for a putter prior to this, so I was going in completely cold. Our Club Champion utilizes the SAM system

   

We first hooked the Spider up to the SAM, and the results were interesting. He is still sending me those results, but from memory, the Spider gave me decent numbers in amount of rotation (was over 75%) and rotation consistency (again around 75%) with an overall consistency of slightly over 75%. All my Spider numbers were in the green. He asked me what type of putter I thought I was, and my reply was "Okay. This is my third season playing, and not having been fit I just attempt to do what I have learned from friends, our forum and internet 'lessons'". Something apparently is working a little bit.

Then he made me stand over a putting mirror, which was the beginning of my real lesson. Line up the eyes on the line where the ball lies, shoulders on the back line and arms straight with the angle of the putter. One of my biggest issues, apparently, was my angle with my forearms and the angle of the putter shaft. I was creating a large angle there. I was also extending the index finger of my right hand down the putter shaft which is apparently a no-no! He helped me get a better setup at address and I do believe that it helped quite a bit! 

   

He had the shaft length down to 33" from the 35" I have on the Mamba and the lie angle at 77deg as compared to the 67deg I have on the Mamba. The results?

   

Note the lie angles as well. So, this was a complete eye opener for me and the reason I said in an earlier comment that I recommend highly having not only the online fitting done, but get to your local fitter so they can view and analyze in person everything about your stroke and your address. My takeaway from my fitting? I'm going to have to shorten the shaft by lowering my grip, which I have already started practicing. This will give me the angle (or lack thereof) between my forearm and the putter shaft that I need. I also need to address the ball more closely so that I am more over top of the ball than I am currently doing. The drawback? This is going to leave me with a slight toe down angle. 

My feelings about all this? I've got work to do. I've ordered a putting mirror which I found a huge help in the alignment aspect and am grateful for Mike showing me how it works. At the end of the whole thing, Mike did agree that the L.A.B. was the correct putter for me but that the setup wasn't ideal. I'm going to have to learn to adjust my address so that it is more consistent and proper form and let the putter do it's thing. It appears that for the time being, I'm going to be putting with a slightly toe down angle as it is where the putter lies when I'm at address in the correct position

@Steve F I was able to get to the practice green with the Mamba and the Spider and post up these numbers. From a putting standpoint the Mamba performed better in close while the Spider did a bit better from 7' and further. 

@Steve F I do this as well, did he happen to mention why this is a "no-no?"  He did @Michael.Sandoval33. He said the tendency to give that little extra "correction" by pushing that finger to make a micro adjustment. It tends to make the travel, in my case, go left. Then you go trying to over compensate by aiming differently than you should. I did adjust and pull my index finger back up and lying the putter shaft down the life line of my left hand at the same time, instead of gripping the putter like an iron, which I was doing for sure. I practiced this several times, and while feeling a bit odd, I did notice a change in ball travel being more straight. 

   

 @Michael.Sandoval33 Okay, definitely makes a ton of sense. Going to have to break out the mat and give it a try. Thanks for the response

@jbern Very interesting fitting experience! That is WILD that a 10* lie angle change was performing so well for you.  Did you happen to get a photo of the super adjustable DF 2.1? I’d be curious to see what it looks like. 

@Josh Parker 10* difference is a huge number

@cnosil

    

@jbern Thanks @cnosil! That is very interesting. The look and concept of the fitting putter is pretty neat! Do you or @Steve F know how they keep the L.A.B. to be set properly with all of the different changes the fitting club can provide? Or isn't that as important for the fitting portion

@cnosil I don’t think it is about having the right balance, it is more about finding the correct lie angle…not any different than sending in a video but maybe a touch more accurate.   Could also indicate that the “proper” balance really isn’t as important as a good setup

@Josh Parker That's a good question. Initially I thought well, maybe it wouldn't matter so much and it's just for getting the degree upright but with them making each one specific to weight and balance, I would think it could affect putting outcomes.

@GolfSpy MPR OK, my wife has returned, and it looks like we might have a few days without rain in the next week. The rain has been a major issue here: our course simply doesn't drain. Even on days when we can get out now, the rough is completely uncut, because the mower wheels would tear up the course. The greens, though, are in fine shape.  OK, my wife has returned, and it looks like we might have a few days without rain in the next week. The rain has been a major issue here: our course simply doesn't drain. Even on days when we can get out now, the rough is completely uncut, because the mower wheels would tear up the course. The greens, though, are in fine shape.

   

The two most recent rounds haven't been great, but I'm still over a stroke better with the DF3 in my bag than I was the most recent 7 rounds without it. That's a good sign. And just as a matter of putts taken, the numbers are pretty spiffy: 

             

@GolfSpy MPR The further I get from the hole, the more like a scratch golfer I putt. Without having a few other DF3's to make the comparison, it is hard for me to say this conclusively, but my suspicion is that the benefits of the TPT shaft really show up here. The feel and feedback are very predictable, and currently my confidence is incredibly high on putts outside 10' that I'm going to give the putt a chance, and if not, that my next putt will be relatively stress free.

@Cfhandyman 15 putts for 9 holes is very good.  Everything is trending in a positive direction compared to a 0 handicap and its only a matter of time and repetition and those short putts will be going in routinely

@GolfSpy MPR

@MattWillGolf  I was out with Nemo (Orange DF3) today for 9 holes. The greens were aerated so there was that variable to my round. I had 17 putts for the nine holes today. That total was made up of two 3-putts, four 2-putts and three 1-putts

@MattWillGolf It was a putter comparison between Nemo, the orange DF3 vs. my Evnroll ER7 this time. I will have to reserve putting too much weight onto this test as the greens were just aerated. 

   

@GolfSpy MPR Love this data. As you yourself mentioned: this is a small sample size with some aeration variability built in, so you wouldn't want to make major decisions based on it. But let's suppose this data holds as a pattern, with the DF3 holding a slight edge on short putts and the Evnroll on the mid- and longer-range. Do you have on-course data that would tell you where you need your putter to help you most?

@MattWillGolfMatt’s follow up report from Club Champion – SAM results – DF3 Below are the results of that session. The session covered measurements of both the L.A.B. Golf DF3 and the Evnroll ER11v. Based off of the results John recommended a mallet putter with a length of 34 inches, a 68 degree lie angle, 4 degrees of loft and based on my putting stroke a putter that offered some toe hang. The ER11v provided the best results for my putting style. I am squarer at impact and my putts are closer to the center of the putter face than with the DF3.

DF3                                                                                                                       ER11v

   

DF3                                                                                                                       ER11v

   

DF3                                                                                                                       ER11v

    

DF3                                                                                                                       ER11v

             

@jbern Was able to get out for a quick 9 holes at a course nearby my house and I almost had the entire back nine to myself, so I decided to video the putts again. After two stellar rounds with Dory, this round brought me back down to earth a little bit. 20 total putts with 3 three putts, 5 two putts and 1 one putt.

@Steve F Great stuff @jbern! I'm impressed that you have enough time to setup the video and break it back down without anyone hollering at you in the background! 

@Cfhandyman Great video.  Excellent foresight on your part to video this and take us on your putting journey with the L.A.B.  Well done and thanks for sharing.

 

 

[jbern]

I was out playing my first 18 hole round since receiving the DF3 for testing. I teed off on 16 and the wind picked up and it turned very dark while my playing partner teed off. The millisecond his drive landed in the fairway, there was a lightning strike 4 miles away that felt like it was right next to us. We BOLTED (pun intended ) off the course and the monsoon of rain came shortly after we dropped off the cart! So my first 18 hole round with Dory was cut short. 

On the day (through 15 holes) I had 25 putts and 22 of those putts felt VERY professional. I had 1 three putt, 8 two putts and 6 one putts. Below is the detailed spreadsheet for the round:

The first putts on holes 3, 5 and 6 got away from me and I didn't strike them well or make good strokes. Other than those 3, I was burning edges and leaving easy putts for 2nd putts. Even though I still haven't made any long range putts, I'm feeling good about where things are when putting with Dory the DF3!

My routine stayed consistent all round and I'm really enjoy it. I walk off the distance to the hole while reading the putt. I get back to my ball and line up the lines on the golf ball with my start line. I stand up, visualize the putt and decide on a distance number to hit (e.g. for a 10 foot putt uphill, I'll decide to hit it 15 feet). I set the DF3 behind the ball, make my stance and go. 

 

 

[jbern]

I also did a number of Exputt sessions over the weekend. From videoing my putting stroke, I noticed that on longer putts, and even occasionally on shorter putts, my arms straighten when taking the backstroke. I really concentrated on keeping my arms steady and moving the putter with bigger muscles in my back and shoulders.

Anyway, this lead to my highest Exputt Analysis score ever. It was previously a score of 77.2 with my Sub70 AL-6 armlock putter and I narrowly eclipsed that with Dory with a score of 77.4! I did two Exputt Analysis sessions I didn't mention in the thread, but my running scores are 68.5, 67.7, 69.7, 70.2, 72.8, 63.7, 70.3 and now 77.4. 

[Cfhandyman]

My last three rounds with Lab rat have been more of a regression to the norm with 30, 32 and 34 putt rounds.  However, I have been working through swing/path changes which has left me with a lot of initial long putts, so not totally surprised at the putting results.  However, the one good take away is while I've missed many of the 8 to 20 foot putts, in many cases they either just burned the edges or stopped just short or long for easy tap in.  Swing changes starting to become more consistent and have another lesson this week.

@jbern Nice on course and Ex putt results, it looks like you are getting more and more comfortable with Dory in your bag.  And yes wise choice, to avoid thunder and lightening on the course and make like Usain Bolt.

[Steve F]

A link to the 18 I played yesterday at Fox Hollow, one of my local haunts. Putting was rather good overall until I hit 18, and that was just a complete disaster. I should never know that I'm having a decent round until the round is over! I appreciate all the putting help input from everyone! As @cnosil said, getting a "stock setup" and working from there is not a bad idea. I understand that everyone plays differently, but now having a "baseline" address and setup seems to be helping even in the short span of time that I've been able to practice it. I did a bit of indoor testing and had a session on the practice green on Saturday, those numbers to follow. 33 putts for this round, so I cannot complain overall. I'm getting and now understanding the concept of just the pendulum motion and letting the putter do the work! More work and better rounds on the horizon!

[HikingMike]

On 6/13/2024 at 7:40 AM, jbern said:

Was able to get out for a quick 9 holes at a course nearby my house and I almost had the entire back nine to myself, so I decided to video the putts again. After two stellar rounds with Dory, this round brought me back down to earth a little bit. 20 total putts with 3 three putts, 5 two putts and 1 one putt. My proximity to the hole was very poor and some of the putts I had were breaking 10+ feet. I'll have to remember that I need to leave myself in better spots next time I play this course. Below are my detailed stats and the video.

 

Excellent. Hey out of curiosity, what's your tripod setup? I'm curious to possibly video myself as well. I've seen video from Notascratchgolfer (youtuber) where he videos every shot and he's playing with other people at some nice courses without slowing things down. I have a tripod and phone mount, but I think it's a little bulky and probably would not be quick enough to set up for that.

[Wheelieb]

30 minutes ago, HikingMike said:

Excellent. Hey out of curiosity, what's your tripod setup? I'm curious to possibly video myself as well. I've seen video from Notascratchgolfer (youtuber) where he videos every shot and he's playing with other people at some nice courses without slowing things down. I have a tripod and phone mount, but I think it's a little bulky and probably would not be quick enough to set up for that.

I bought a small one on amazon that has a phone holder that is springy and holds it tight. I'm pretty positive it was all of 10 bucks, but that was also like 3 years ago. I've been using it more often on the course and just keep my phone in it. once you figure out how far back you need to set it for your liking it is pretty quick.

 

Ok, main reason I came here. I went to the Golf galaxy here close to me and they had the DF3 there. I don't need a putter, but as a kid who had to play around with a toy in a store I decided to give it a few hits on their putting green. I have to remind myself I don't need a new putter. To be fair I did hit the other models as well and it was almost the same for all of them. But I don't need a new putter. 

[jbern]

1 hour ago, HikingMike said:

Excellent. Hey out of curiosity, what's your tripod setup? I'm curious to possibly video myself as well. I've seen video from Notascratchgolfer (youtuber) where he videos every shot and he's playing with other people at some nice courses without slowing things down. I have a tripod and phone mount, but I think it's a little bulky and probably would not be quick enough to set up for that.

I've tried to use my normal tripod and like you say, I just find it too bulky and it takes too long to set up. I actually use my pushcart as the "tripod" and mount a tripod ball-head with a phone adapter to it. Below is a photo and I put a little summary about it in a Clicgear 4.0 pushcart review post here:

I have never tried to video every shot, but I hear that gpod golf monopods work great and I'd like to try one of those. I'm a little concerned I won't be able to get it in the ground during certain times of the year though! 

[jbern]

1 hour ago, Wheelieb said:

Ok, main reason I came here. I went to the Golf galaxy here close to me and they had the DF3 there. I don't need a putter, but as a kid who had to play around with a toy in a store I decided to give it a few hits on their putting green. I have to remind myself I don't need a new putter. To be fair I did hit the other models as well and it was almost the same for all of them. But I don't need a new putter. 

I'm not sure you came to the right spot because it sure sounds like you need a new putter... 

[HikingMike]

33 minutes ago, jbern said:

I've tried to use my normal tripod and like you say, I just find it too bulky and it takes too long to set up. I actually use my pushcart as the "tripod" and mount a tripod ball-head with a phone adapter to it. Below is a photo and I put a little summary about it in a Clicgear 4.0 pushcart review post here:

I have never tried to video every shot, but I hear that gpod golf monopods work great and I'd like to try one of those. I'm a little concerned I won't be able to get it in the ground during certain times of the year though! 

Oh yeah, a mount for your push cart would be perfect. Very cool. You can always get it in to position easily, and you don't have to take anything out and put it on the ground or whatever. Too bad I ride a cart more than I walk. I've heard people have like a mount that goes in their bag like another club also, so that works carrying also, or at the driving range. 

Monopod with some kind of ground stake definitely crossed my mind too. Just pull it out and stick it in the ground... as long as ground conditions are ok. I hadn't actually looked for one, but good to hear they are out there. Thanks

[MattWillGolf]

3 hours ago, Wheelieb said:

I bought a small one on amazon that has a phone holder that is springy and holds it tight. I'm pretty positive it was all of 10 bucks, but that was also like 3 years ago. I've been using it more often on the course and just keep my phone in it. once you figure out how far back you need to set it for your liking it is pretty quick.

 

Ok, main reason I came here. I went to the Golf galaxy here close to me and they had the DF3 there. I don't need a putter, but as a kid who had to play around with a toy in a store I decided to give it a few hits on their putting green. I have to remind myself I don't need a new putter. To be fair I did hit the other models as well and it was almost the same for all of them. But I don't need a new putter. 

Ah yes, “The new putter conundrum”

 

 

[CFreddie]

Excited to share my latest findings with Chewie!

Father's Day Golf - was able to get in 18 on Father's Day (my wife is a saint), and Chewie continued to perform.  Most impressive part of my putting performance was lag putting - distance control and pace was on point today, and left me with ZERO 3-putts (2nd round in a row).  As you'll see across the rest of my results, Chewie and I definitely seem to be turning a corner...

Putt Perfect Mat Practice - Continuing to put in some good practice at home - while these putts are straight, its forcing me to really practice on setup / stroke / tempo.  As you can see, I'm starting to get a really apparent bifurcation in performance between the two putters, especially at more distance.  

Stack Putting Performance - in addition to home practice (and actual golf rounds), I'm going to start incorporating the Stack Putting system into my testing routine.  If you aren't familiar with Stack Putting (yes, its part of the Stack System), this program will allow you add a bit more intentionally to your practice routine by guiding you through a series of holes (18 in fact) on the putting green, all of which incorporate different distances, breaks, and speeds.  The cool part about this program is that you can add in different types of tests (putter comparison, grip change) and see the results.  In addition, it allows you to enter a handicap, which gives you a SG read-out to compare to someone at your "level".  Very cool program indeed - here is a link for more information AND access to a free 30 day trial.

https://www.thestacksystem.com/pages/stackputting?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwg8qzBhAoEiwAWagLrPXpOjAXCDOJmWnEZpDBpnh8kh1vv329Ww3KmgIHXqUfO_nL3GzTyhoCsBAQAvD_BwE

Anyways, I've only done a couple sessions with both putters, but the results are already pretty eye-opening.   One interesting call-out: the direction bias is very interesting to see - my guess is that the combination of putter lengths and alignment aids has made me line-up slightly different between the two putters. 

Note - I don't think this is any better (or worse) than Arccos, but its reassuring to see the same trend across both systems.

[Cfhandyman]

MGS Tester of the Week – Matt Gomez Profile

In a continuing feature of the L.A.B. DF3 putter testing, we are introducing the MyGolfSpy Tester of the week for the L.A.B. DF3.  Each week we will highlight one of the testers. The purpose is to highlight the great work they are doing, but also to get to know them a bit better.  This weeks, tester of the week is none other than,  @MattWillGolf

   

Where he’s from:  Our mostly easterly testier, hailing from Baldwinsville, NY, approximately 20 min north of Syracuse.  He is a proud San Francisco native and former resident of many years in the Pacific Northwest.  The best course he has ever played was the Kapalua Plantation Course in Hawaii.

Who he is:  A man of many talents,  a food and drink connoisseur, runner, a member of the pushcart mafia and lover of orange (SF Giants, Syracuse,).  Check out his unboxing video for proof.

  

He is an experienced MGS tester (Paradym X Irons, Evnroll ER11v putter and the Shot Scope Pro LX+) and a self described golf equipment junkie.  I can definitely relate to that.

 

         Versus         

Current testing:  More on course rounds planned with Nemo as he is learning to “un torque” his putting stroke.  He wants to get more comfortable with using the putter and working on his aim. He will continue to practice green testing sessions from 5, 10 and 20 feet as he has done previously. The hope is that this will improve his comfort with the putter as well track improvements in his putting

    

 

Edited June 20 by Cfhandyman

[Cfhandyman]

2 hours ago, CFreddie said:

Excited to share my latest findings with Chewie!

Father's Day Golf - was able to get in 18 on Father's Day (my wife is a saint), and Chewie continued to perform.  Most impressive part of my putting performance was lag putting - distance control and pace was on point today, and left me with ZERO 3-putts (2nd round in a row).  As you'll see across the rest of my results, Chewie and I definitely seem to be turning a corner...

Putt Perfect Mat Practice - Continuing to put in some good practice at home - while these putts are straight, its forcing me to really practice on setup / stroke / tempo.  As you can see, I'm starting to get a really apparent bifurcation in performance between the two putters, especially at more distance.  

Stack Putting Performance - in addition to home practice (and actual golf rounds), I'm going to start incorporating the Stack Putting system into my testing routine.  If you aren't familiar with Stack Putting (yes, its part of the Stack System), this program will allow you add a bit more intentionally to your practice routine by guiding you through a series of holes (18 in fact) on the putting green, all of which incorporate different distances, breaks, and speeds.  The cool part about this program is that you can add in different types of tests (putter comparison, grip change) and see the results.  In addition, it allows you to enter a handicap, which gives you a SG read-out to compare to someone at your "level".  Very cool program indeed - here is a link for more information AND access to a free 30 day trial.

https://www.thestacksystem.com/pages/stackputting?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwg8qzBhAoEiwAWagLrPXpOjAXCDOJmWnEZpDBpnh8kh1vv329Ww3KmgIHXqUfO_nL3GzTyhoCsBAQAvD_BwE

Anyways, I've only done a couple sessions with both putters, but the results are already pretty eye-opening.   One interesting call-out: the direction bias is very interesting to see - my guess is that the combination of putter lengths and alignment aids has made me line-up slightly different between the two putters. 

Note - I don't think this is any better (or worse) than Arccos, but its reassuring to see the same trend across both systems.

Very nice data from the Stack system. A nice complement to Arccos. Glad to see Chewie is rising to the occasion.  Well done. 

[jbern]

3 hours ago, CFreddie said:

Excited to share my latest findings with Chewie!

Father's Day Golf - was able to get in 18 on Father's Day (my wife is a saint), and Chewie continued to perform.  Most impressive part of my putting performance was lag putting - distance control and pace was on point today, and left me with ZERO 3-putts (2nd round in a row).  As you'll see across the rest of my results, Chewie and I definitely seem to be turning a corner...

Putt Perfect Mat Practice - Continuing to put in some good practice at home - while these putts are straight, its forcing me to really practice on setup / stroke / tempo.  As you can see, I'm starting to get a really apparent bifurcation in performance between the two putters, especially at more distance.  

Stack Putting Performance - in addition to home practice (and actual golf rounds), I'm going to start incorporating the Stack Putting system into my testing routine.  If you aren't familiar with Stack Putting (yes, its part of the Stack System), this program will allow you add a bit more intentionally to your practice routine by guiding you through a series of holes (18 in fact) on the putting green, all of which incorporate different distances, breaks, and speeds.  The cool part about this program is that you can add in different types of tests (putter comparison, grip change) and see the results.  In addition, it allows you to enter a handicap, which gives you a SG read-out to compare to someone at your "level".  Very cool program indeed - here is a link for more information AND access to a free 30 day trial.

https://www.thestacksystem.com/pages/stackputting?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwg8qzBhAoEiwAWagLrPXpOjAXCDOJmWnEZpDBpnh8kh1vv329Ww3KmgIHXqUfO_nL3GzTyhoCsBAQAvD_BwE

Anyways, I've only done a couple sessions with both putters, but the results are already pretty eye-opening.   One interesting call-out: the direction bias is very interesting to see - my guess is that the combination of putter lengths and alignment aids has made me line-up slightly different between the two putters. 

Note - I don't think this is any better (or worse) than Arccos, but its reassuring to see the same trend across both systems.

I'm not familiar at all with the Stack System for putting. Do you input the putting data during your round or on a practice green? I might have to give it a try... at least for the 30 day free trial!

[CFreddie]

2 hours ago, jbern said:

I'm not familiar at all with the Stack System for putting. Do you input the putting data during your round or on a practice green? I might have to give it a try... at least for the 30 day free trial!

Good question @jbern - the basic process is your create putt "scenarios" based on their direction (see screenshot below), hit the putt(s), and record the outcome.  Based on the handicap you enter, they can calculate a SG based on those results across 18 holes (it actually updates in real time, pretty neat).  Another cool feature is you can setup "comparisons" - allowing you to enter two different putters, grip changes (left hand low vs standard vs claw), etc, and compare the results (what I shared above).

  

[MattWillGolf]

Got out for nine holes with Nemo in the heat this morning. I was feeling Rory today. I had 4-footer for birdie that just missed.  But overall, I was pleased with the putting. I even used Nemo for a Texas wedge to 4-feet on the hardest hole on the course and made the putt for par. I had 16 putts for 9 holes. The round included one 3-putt, five 2-putts and three 1-putts. 

[rarce_torres]

I played golf yesterday at Emerald Valley in Creswell Oregon yesterday....  LAB headquarters is there.  It looked like they had a session going on there as there were many putter versions on the putting green.  I didn't get a chance to talk or try any, because we had to rush back after playing.  I like the reviews you are all giving and I might need to try these out!

[jbern]

19 minutes ago, rarce_torres said:

I played golf yesterday at Emerald Valley in Creswell Oregon yesterday....  LAB headquarters is there.  It looked like they had a session going on there as there were many putter versions on the putting green.  I didn't get a chance to talk or try any, because we had to rush back after playing.  I like the reviews you are all giving and I might need to try these out!

That sounds pretty awesome! Did you get close enough to see any prototypes or anything?

I would definitely recommend giving the DF3 a try, but I would also recommend getting one that fits you via their online fitting submission. Let us know if you end up trying one out!

[Cfhandyman]

After 15 rounds of play L.A.B. DF3 versus Evnroll

So here is where we stand after 15 rounds with the L.A.B. DF3 versus the 15 previous rounds with the Evnroll Tourstroke all compared to a 0 handicap (Arccos data). 

Compared to a 0 handicap, I give up 6 strokes per round (-2 from driving, -4.5 from approach, but make it up in short game +0.2 and putting +0.2).  My overall game has worsened over the last 6 rounds primarily due to lessons and incorporating swing changes into my game. I’m working on shallowing my swing with a better and smoother transition (tempo) resulting in a more neutral or in to out path versus my previous steep, out to in path. However, despite this no impact on short game or putting.  Still very good. However, approach play has been worse resulting in longer initial putts and less one putts and birdies.

Overall over 15 rounds, one putts have increased to 6.1 per round, both putting and short game have improved by 0.6 strokes using strokes gained analysis (Arccos).  Driving has improved by 0.5 strokes, but my approach game has gotten worse by 2.0 strokes.  All are compared to a 0 handicap golfer.  Scoring: Birdies, pars, bogies and double + have remained relatively the same

The biggest and most noticeable difference is inside 10 feet.  I’m reasonably confident that I now can make that 5 to 6 footer at an approximately 80% success rate.  The difference is that I've gone from I hope I can make this, to a you can definitely make this attitude.  Now I still have to get the read and pace right, but the L.A.B. DF3 with its exceptional face angle control has given me the confidence that I can make that 5, 10 or even a 20 footer.  Lag putting has been very good.  I will occasionally hit the odd stinker from long range, primarily if I try to force it or totally get the read of the green wrong.  Off the green putts, aka Texas wedge have gotten much better.  I am still very impressed with how good this putter is. Loving the Lab rat.