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This is interesting stuff. From what I've read so far, Dustin Johnson's swing is what comes to mind that might be a more extreme example of this. Or am I way off?

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I have a question... Besides using a training aid such as a Medicus, what does the whole hinged piece of scrap metal prove?  I'm not trying to be a Richard, but honestly, this proves nothing to me. Unless the hinge is supposed to represent the hands/club connection.  And then you actually want rotation through impact.  Looks like a bunch of scientific mumbo-jumbo to me that doesn't really help anyone play golf.  Again, not trying to be a butt about it, just trying to see what this is supposed to prove and how it's supposed to actually help golfers.  Because it seems to me just one more thing to distract a golfer by adding something to think about in the preshot routine.

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Your comments that "wrists unhinging" and "That action is increasing club head speed dramatically" are certainly the common understanding of the golf swing. If you look along the bays of a driving range, that is what you see. Everybody is trying to "unhinge" faster.

I have come to the conclusion that this is a very significant mindset problem that we have. I would like to encourage any handymen out there to build a model of the wrist. I built this model a few years ago to try to understand how the wrist works in the golf swing.

The video forced me to rethink about "unhinging" and more about "forearm rotation" in the downswing and what you need to do to promote the forearm rotation rather than the unhinging of the wrist. Is the model correct? Biomechanics specialists may disagree and provide a different view of how the wrist works. I think this is the central question to be answered before we fully understand what happens in the downswing.

 

Kevin Ryan

The wrists go from hinged to unhinged, so you can't ignore that part of it. I don't mean you have to force them to unhinge, it happens if you let it. If your wrists couldn't hinge at all and you only had rotation, you would lose club head speed. The club would be farther away from you at the top increasing the MOI of the system, making it harder to accelerate. Plus you wouldn't get the free energy of it unhinging at the bottom.

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I'm pretty simple, and I've actually tried to get away from thinking too much about my "swing" the past couple of years, but this sounds similar to what I do with my irons now (which are better).

 

I still "forward press" with my fairway wood and hybrids, but I think this is similar to how I swing my irons.

 

To me, it's really all about how the ball "looks" at setup now.  If I get that right, and I make my normal swing, then I get good results.  I don't really thing about "how I swing," I just try to "look at the ball" and swing.

 

I know I setup with my weight more on my left with my woods and hybrids and more neutral with my irons, but more "open" with my wedges" but I try NOT to think about my swing once the "ball looks right."

 

When I don't think about it, after I setup, I seem to get better results.

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I will try to answer the last few posts with another short video. I have had trouble explaining this RYKE effect concept and it took me a long time to get my head around the concept. When I did get my head around it, I started to understand what the downswing does and that there needs to be a change of direction part way down in the swing. What you will see in the video is Steve Stricker's swing. He does not set his wrists and therefore they don't unhinge. He shows that you can achieve pro clubhead speeds without unhinging the wrists. He shows that in the first part of the downswing you can store energy using a small wrist angle which gets released rotationally as a conical pendulum, which very accurately straightens the clubface.

 

 

http://youtu.be/L0h1N5Un_Fg

 

Kevin Ryan

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I understand what you're saying. Steve probably has less wrist set than anyone on tour. He has some though. The angle gets smaller at the top and tightens up a little more on the way down. But no, he's not setting his wrists like most guys. He's also a relatively short hitter too as a result though.

 

It's not a universal thing one way or the other. If you watch Keegan Bradley, he raises his hands through impact so much compared to address he loses that angle almost entirely. I've never thought that's a good thing.

 

One thing I've always noticed when I've recorded my swing down the line is, I can draw a line on the shaft at address in the video, and the shaft comes through that same line at impact aside from the droop in the shaft. I don't want my hands raising up higher than they started for that reason. I want to keep that angle.

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I am blown away. As past PGA member but more importantly striving close to 50 years to be a good instructor, you have answered a question that has evaded me. The automatic release of the left forearm performed by the models resonates clarity. Thank you. Also, teaching the cone concept is very clear to students. Without proof, I believe cone and planar are compatible. You have enlightened some. Thank you

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I am blown away. As past PGA member but more importantly striving close to 50 years to be a good instructor, you have answered a question that has evaded me. The automatic release of the left forearm performed by the models resonates clarity. Thank you. Also, teaching the cone concept is very clear to students. Without proof, I believe cone and planar are compatible. You have enlightened some. Thank you

Something that improved my swing considerably in the last year or so was understanding just that. The club head stays behind longer and that angle between my left arm an shaft is preserved through impact so that rotation adds speed and the club releases itself almost. Down the line, my hands and shaft pass through the same place they were at address instead of my hands lifting and the shaft forming a near straight line with my arm.

 

But I notice some tour players that do just that and have plenty of power. Keegan comes to mind. His hands are higher at impact with the shaft nearly straight with his arm looking down the line. So it's not a universal detail to every good player by any stretch.

 

But for me, while I was always pretty solid with my irons, I sliced my driver constantly. Now my driver is straight. I can hit a slight fade or draw now. My miss is only when I turn my shoulders around a little early and I hit a pull draw. But I know what that feels like and only seem to do that if I get careless now.

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Sheriff and Blade,

 

Thanks for those comments. When I started this thread I was looking for these sort of comments. The feeling of effortless speed. When I first learnt how to do it, I would get a surprise. "What just happened."  I think that is because it is a physics effect and not a muscle action (eg hitting with a hammer).

 

Kevin ryan

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Mr Ryan, your model describes and believe proves a type of release can be taught easily. Have studied the golfing machine and it describes this release. It is called automatic dual horizontal hingeing. However, students in most cases find it very difficult to do. Your work I believe solves it. A few might help with your product if you are interested. A Mr furze in Australia has been quite successful. E mail me at your convenience. g

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Sheriff,

I am no fan of the golfing machine. I want to use only Newtonian physics. I agree it is very difficult to learn. In my case I believed the physics was right and that enabled me to know what forces needed to be applied and when. Almost every swing thought I had had for 50 years had to be changed. I am getting better at it and in the process I am developing a few techniques to ensure the correct forces and timings are correct. I will release a book when I am confident those techniques work.

 

Kevin Ryan

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Sheriff,

I am no fan of the golfing machine. I want to use only Newtonian physics. I agree it is very difficult to learn. In my case I believed the physics was right and that enabled me to know what forces needed to be applied and when. Almost every swing thought I had had for 50 years had to be changed. I am getting better at it and in the process I am developing a few techniques to ensure the correct forces and timings are correct. I will release a book when I am confident those techniques work.

 

Kevin Ryan

Hi Kevin,

 i fortuately come across the RykeEffect analysis in golf.  i also have studied the mechaniques of downswing to make a precise and sure impact by maxium head speed. 

3 years ago you mentioned the possible book of this Ryke Effect, and i expect the first edition of this wonderful physical forces.  Like Steve Striker, i  make slightly wrist hinged swing and swing by this natural method. 

 I always check the golfing technique around by the internet  web ex. youtube and something.

Micheal Jacobs recently uploaded his site concernig the 3D forces alpha,beta and ganma.

and he said that the hand path is different moving down not parallelling the head plane, and near and after impact , the hand path is slowing down and move up! and turnning the left side and up of the body.   this is a secret of impact(moment of truth).

I think this method and phenomenum is almost like the move of conical pendulum.

do you think it is very same saying ?   what your thought?

thank for reading.  any comment is appreciated.  RayGolf  from Japan

2018.7.15  very hot  sunday

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On 6/13/2015 at 11:15 PM, KevinRyan said:

Sheriff,

I am no fan of the golfing machine. I want to use only Newtonian physics. I agree it is very difficult to learn. In my case I believed the physics was right and that enabled me to know what forces needed to be applied and when. Almost every swing thought I had had for 50 years had to be changed. I am getting better at it and in the process I am developing a few techniques to ensure the correct forces and timings are correct. I will release a book when I am confident those techniques work.

 

Kevin Ryan

Kevin - I hope you are still around and respond to posts . Can we now assume after 3.5 yrs that you are still not confident about the techniques used to evoke the Ryke effect using Newtonian physics?  From what I've read so far,  there is still no clear explanation for the biomechanics involved in creating that 'Transverse Force'  that transforms an 'In Plane Double Pendulum motion' type golf swing to a 'Conical Pendulum motion' .  Your model still doesn't explain why some golfers like Jamie Sadlowski and other long drivers can drive the ball long distances with appreciably small Ryke angles . You have made an assumption that Jamie Sadlowski must be firming up his wrists through impact and reducing his ROC to fit the human limitations of forearm rotation (and ulnar deviation singularity) built into your computer model . In fact you have stated that the closing of JS's clubface is caused by forward shaft bend rather than him utilising the Ryke effect and that those actions allow him to 'Drive-Hold' . But have you any firm evidence it is actually happening and being repeated in other golfers who have small Ryke angles and still drive the ball long distances? For example , the latter cannot apply to Phil Mickelson (small Ryke angle) who can drive the ball a long way but is actively rotating his lead forearm through impact rather than firming it up.

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jaxbeachpackerfan and Silver and Black,There is no simple secret to golf. Certainly holding hands low is part of the puzzle. As I was writing the section on the downswing it took 12 pages to explain my understanding of the physics mechanisms that are in play in the quarter of a second of the downswing. What I am trying to get golfers to understand with the RYKE effect is that one of the fundamental truths is that wrist release ( hammer action) is wrong and that forearm rotation with a RYKE angle is how the best golfers swing a club. That is the starting point. I hope to be able to contribute in a small way to develop techniques that everyone can use, but we have to understand what is happening first.
 
Kevin Ryan
 


This is a great explanation of the swing, Kevin. I dabbled with this approach a while back, and did gain a few yards, but struggled with keeping the bottom of my arc consistent and so went back to the double pendulum model. Your research is an incentive to go back and give it another shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I've found that Kevin has patented a couple of inventions using Ryke effect phenomenon so maybe he is more involved in testing the success of their practical use before his book is published.

One is a club testing machine robot (unlike Iron Byron or Ping man that use the double-pendulum concept)  which will incorporate the Ryke effect , while another are training clubs (see the link below).

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20160051882.pdf

Imho , the double-pendulum concept is still applicable for maximising clubhead speed until  a few feet from the ball , then maybe Ryke effect can be utilised. In that patent article above , if you read the SUMMARY section 0024 he states the effect is invoked  by the movement of the leading hand downwards  but it's too vague to make much sense. It could be the leading arm pitching closer to the body during the downswing , or it could be some degree of lead palmar flexion of wrist which triggers the effect. The 'How' this Ryke effect is induced/optimised in a golf swing is still not yet clearly explained in any detail.

PS. Weird coincidence but it looks like the Ryke effect might explain why PGA men can drive the ball longer distances than LPGA ladies but still have less arm/club angular rotation speeds. Seems like everything in golf is counterintuitive. 

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