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Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal


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11 hours ago, Golfhandds said:

This is all silly to me.  Studies show over and over that speed control is more important than aim.  Reading the green and controlling the line with correct speed  is the key.  I suspect you give up some speed control on long putts anchored and maybe gain some face control on short putts.  Of course, you gain face control with claw or left hand low or other methods as well.  Putt any way you want.  If everyone can do it, it is not an advantage because anyone can do it if they want.  

Aim and impacting the ball with the face square to the target doesn't matter?? Sorry, that's way off.

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15 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

In regards to people claiming rotating the grip so a flat portion is flush with the inside of the forearm is cheating, it is a question of it being an alignment aid.

I don't agree that armlock is anchoring either.

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The issue is in how it aids the movement, not the alignment.

Golf Magazine writers were asked if Horschel is on to something with the inappropriateness of arm-lock putting:

Bamberger: Definitely. The USGA banned anchored putting. But not all anchored putting. This is not the free-swinging stroke the USGA seems to hold so dear. I agree with Billy. But only at the highest level. For regular-Joe golf, by whatever means necessary is my motto.

Sens: Agreed. It’s like finding loopholes in the tax code. You can make rules, but people will always find creative ways around them that are technically legal but just don’t feel right. I agree with the whatever-means-necessary approach for the rest of us as well, which is why I’m sticking to the pool-cue method. So much easier.

Dethier: Yeah, I don’t really understand why it’s still permitted when the spirit of the rules change seemed designed to make everyone a free-swinger. It was rather bold for Billy to take this stand in the midst of two rounds with arm-locker Will Zalatoris, but I guess he deserves credit for speaking his mind, regardless of present company.

Piastowski: It certainly looks like it, doesn’t it? 

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20 minutes ago, LICC said:

Aim and impacting the ball with the face square to the target doesn't matter?? Sorry, that's way off.

Did I say aim doesn't matter?  Please reread, then ask yourself this question, How many putts with perfect aim but insufficient distance go in?

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2 minutes ago, Golfhandds said:

Did I say aim doesn't matter?  Please reread, then ask yourself this question, How many putts with perfect aim but insufficient distance go in?

Your exact words: " ... speed control is more important than aim.  Reading the green and controlling the line with correct speed  is the key."

Aim, speed, and stroke (impact) are all important to good putting.

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2 minutes ago, Golfhandds said:

Did I say aim doesn't matter?  Please reread, then ask yourself this question, How many putts with perfect aim but insufficient distance go in?

Aim is important, being able to hit the intended line is important, reading the green properly is important.  I don't believe any one aspect is more important than the others.  If two of the three are correct, and the third is off, the putt will miss.  If two aspects are off, its possible that they'll counteract each another, but that's typically an accident.  

As far as arm-lock, its one of a multitude of nontraditional methods of gripping the club that are designed to produce more consistent directional control.  I have no problem with it in general, as the butt of the club still moves, which seems to me to be within the intention of the rules.  I think that drawing the line at anchoring to the body itself is appropriate.

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3 minutes ago, LICC said:

Your exact words: " ... speed control is more important than aim.  Reading the green and controlling the line with correct speed  is the key."

Aim, speed, and stroke (impact) are all important to good putting.

Yep, they are all important.  But I can tell you this.  If I had a wish to get 100% correct every time, it would be distance control. Three putts would be eliminated.  Let me figure out the aim and let me always hit it the right distance.  

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32 minutes ago, Golfhandds said:

Yep, they are all important.  But I can tell you this.  If I had a wish to get 100% correct every time, it would be distance control. Three putts would be eliminated.  Let me figure out the aim and let me always hit it the right distance.  

I'll agree that for 3-putt avoidance, speed control is the primary concern.  But at some point you need to MAKE putts with some regularity, say the 3 to 10-foot range, and making putts requires all three aspects.

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I don't believe any one aspect is more important than the others.  If two of the three are correct, and the third is off, the putt will miss.  If two aspects are off, its possible that they'll counteract each another, but that's typically an accident.  


I would think saying matchup would be better than correct. There are multiple combinations of line and speed that will work for any putt. I can hit a putt with different line and or speed than I intended and still make a putt.

Skill level probably has a lot to do with importance. Someone just learning how to putt I would put line as being most important,
Then speed, then Read.

As you get more experienced, speed becomes more important because they have a decent stroke and can start the ball on line.

Once you can control line and speed daily well you can start to fine tune reading greens.

At the professional level these guys are good with speed control and startline so reading the greens and matching correct speed becomes the most key.

Tying this back to the topic. While armlock helps with stroke, it does very little to help
with speed control and green reading which are the two things that I believe are most important at the professional level. Professionals simply start the ball on their intended line. While people don’t like the looks of armlock, I am not seeing any data that shows armlock; Or even anchoring, produces Better mechanics and performance. People have “locked” the putter in place for many years. Like the rollback of equipment this is a problem of perspective and people saying it goes against the traditions of the game.
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You are arguing a completely different point. None of what I said about turning the grip strictly relates to armlock putting. There's nothing stopping a player using a more traditional putting stroke from turning their grip either for better alignment.

Armlocking in and of itself doesn't improve alignment, and I've never said that it does, so I really don't know why you're trying to argue me on that when it's irrelevant to what I was talking about, which was solely the turning of the grip for better alignment.

The issue is in how it aids the movement, not the alignment.
Golf Magazine writers were asked if Horschel is on to something with the inappropriateness of arm-lock putting:

Bamberger: Definitely. The USGA banned anchored putting. But not all anchored putting. This is not the free-swinging stroke the USGA seems to hold so dear. I agree with Billy. But only at the highest level. For regular-Joe golf, by whatever means necessary is my motto.

Sens: Agreed. It’s like finding loopholes in the tax code. You can make rules, but people will always find creative ways around them that are technically legal but just don’t feel right. I agree with the whatever-means-necessary approach for the rest of us as well, which is why I’m sticking to the pool-cue method. So much easier.

Dethier: Yeah, I don’t really understand why it’s still permitted when the spirit of the rules change seemed designed to make everyone a free-swinger. It was rather bold for Billy to take this stand in the midst of two rounds with arm-locker Will Zalatoris, but I guess he deserves credit for speaking his mind, regardless of present company.

Piastowski: It certainly looks like it, doesn’t it? 



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46 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


I would think saying matchup would be better than correct. There are multiple combinations of line and speed that will work for any putt. I can hit a putt with different line and or speed than I intended and still make a putt.

Skill level probably has a lot to do with importance. Someone just learning how to putt I would put line as being most important,
Then speed, then Read.

As you get more experienced, speed becomes more important because they have a decent stroke and can start the ball on line.

Once you can control line and speed daily well you can start to fine tune reading greens.

At the professional level these guys are good with speed control and startline so reading the greens and matching correct speed becomes the most key.

Tying this back to the topic. While armlock helps with stroke, it does very little to help
with speed control and green reading which are the two things that I believe are most important at the professional level. Professionals simply start the ball on their intended line. While people don’t like the looks of armlock, I am not seeing any data that shows armlock; Or even anchoring, produces Better mechanics and performance. People have “locked” the putter in place for many years. Like the rollback of equipment this is a problem of perspective and people saying it goes against the traditions of the game.

 

Pros don't magically have the ability to always putt on line. Pros struggle with this like everyone else. When Morikawa switched to a new grip, he said it was a gamechanger for him because he didn't have to worry about the line anymore and only had to worry about speed. If anchoring didn't help, you wouldn't have seen Keegan Bradley and some others drop off a cliff with their putting after it was banned. Bryson's putting has improved considerably using the armlock. This technique goes against the concept of swinging the club without an anchor. Disallow it.

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28 minutes ago, LICC said:

Disallow it.

i think maybe just one more new topic complaining about the current state of golf will get you over the hump and make the ruling bodies take heed. definitely just ooooone more. you’re almost there, don’t stop now. 

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8 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

i think maybe just one more new topic complaining about the current state of golf will get you over the hump and make the ruling bodies take heed. definitely just ooooone more. you’re almost there, don’t stop now. 

Maybe @LICC should write his own rules, starting from scratch.  There are certainly a bunch that he thinks need to be changed.

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16 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

unless a handful of guys who switch to armlock star tearing though rounds with 20 putts, this seems like an awful lot of wasted energy and key strokes 

Welcome to the world of golf, 24/7 news cycle, and forums. A lot of wasted hot air. 

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Pros don't magically have the ability to always putt on line. Pros struggle with this like everyone else. When Morikawa switched to a new grip, he said it was a gamechanger for him because he didn't have to worry about the line anymore and only had to worry about speed. If anchoring didn't help, you wouldn't have seen Keegan Bradley and some others drop off a cliff with their putting after it was banned. Bryson's putting has improved considerably using the armlock. This technique goes against the concept of swinging the club without an anchor. Disallow it.

I will still say that pros are good with line. Like with full swing face angle is a variable that pros want to make more consistent going from .75* to .5* is huge for a pro. There is variation with armlock as well.

Prior to the ban how long had those players been using belly or broomstick putters? Forcing them change something they have been doing for years will have a performance impact.

While you don’t like armlock, it isn’t against the rules and therefore isn’t cheating. This like the groove changes and distance debate is about perception of what golf should look like. I get your perspective but there is no evidence of any significant performance improvement. Let’s ban all grips but reverse overlap for putting. No left hand low and no claw players shouldn’t be allowed to grip the club in a way that gives them a performance benefit.

For your next change the rules discussion how about we discuss wedge grinds. I think there should be a standard grind for all wedges and a single bounce. Players are hitting the ball too well with their wedges since they can alter the clubs too optimize specific type of shots. They should rely on talent and not the club.
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Many have been saying using armlock should be illegal because the locking prevents face rotation.

The last time I checked, my forearms (radius and ulna) can rotate freely from the elbow with or without a putter attached.

Edited by Off The Tow
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Its interesting to me, Horschel says these guys are doing it "too good".  Well if this is a better way to putt, if they're gaining strokes on him because of this putting grip, why in the hell is he not doing it himself??  To be honest, this sounds a  bit like jealousy to me.  A small number of guys are using a different method, but those guys aren't winning every tournament.  Perhaps Billy is simply a substandard  putter (by PGA Tour standards) and is looking for excuses.  Or perhaps the interviewer just caught Horschel at a bad moment.

Nonetheless, PGA Tour players, in general, aren't knowledgeable enough about the rules for their opinions about the rules to be taken all that seriously.

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2 hours ago, cnosil said:


I will still say that pros are good with line. Like with full swing face angle is a variable that pros want to make more consistent going from .75* to .5* is huge for a pro. There is variation with armlock as well.

Prior to the ban how long had those players been using belly or broomstick putters? Forcing them change something they have been doing for years will have a performance impact.

While you don’t like armlock, it isn’t against the rules and therefore isn’t cheating. This like the groove changes and distance debate is about perception of what golf should look like. I get your perspective but there is no evidence of any significant performance improvement. Let’s ban all grips but reverse overlap for putting. No left hand low and no claw players shouldn’t be allowed to grip the club in a way that gives them a performance benefit.

For your next change the rules discussion how about we discuss wedge grinds. I think there should be a standard grind for all wedges and a single bounce. Players are hitting the ball too well with their wedges since they can alter the clubs too optimize specific type of shots. They should rely on talent and not the club.

You are the king of straw men. There is evidence that the arm lock has improved performance- all the players who improved their putting after using it. Bryson, Bradley, Simpson, Kuchar, etc. And arm locking is not the same as different hand grips. Arm, not hand. Hence the term, "arm lock".

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3 hours ago, Chip Strokes said:

i think maybe just one more new topic complaining about the current state of golf will get you over the hump and make the ruling bodies take heed. definitely just ooooone more. you’re almost there, don’t stop now. 

So just post about rules that you agree with? Hmm, that rule not allowing you to ground your club in a bunker is great. Let's talk about that ...

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I don't understand why the USGA and RGA don't put a max putter length in the rules.  That would get rid of all this.

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

So just post about rules that you agree with? Hmm, that rule not allowing you to ground your club in a bunker is great. Let's talk about that ...

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