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Arm Lock Putting Should Be Illegal


LICC

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On 4/17/2021 at 10:11 AM, cnosil said:

Also,  in the article Horschel states:

"I think when you look at what guys are doing now with the arm lock and moving the grips to the side where it's parallel or matches the face and then when you do that up against your arm, I mean, it's—you know that face is dead square and that face doesn't rotate at all," Horschel continuted. "It's just sort of locked in. Guys are doing it too good."

To my knowledge there isn't anything in the rules that states you can't turn your normal putting grip to the side and use the flat part against your lead hand and accomplish the same thing.  You could go a little farther up and use the Superstroke wrist lock grip which basically does what I am describing but locks it in the wrist.  

Horschel should use the armlock then maybe he'd be a better putter. He's a whinner 

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Silly argument. Arm lock putting is not illegal because the rules allow it. Period. With the blowback that the USGA had from the PGA of America about banning the anchoring of long putters I doubt that the USGA is in any mood to ban the arm lock method. Golfers go to other methods of putting when they feel like they can not putt with a short putter any more. Everyone that uses these methods are basically putting cripples and 99 out of a hundred that try it do not putt a bit better. Growing the game is in the best interest of all golfers and banning any method that does not let you stand behind the ball to putt is not beneficial to growing the game. 

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51 minutes ago, Brinkie said:

I don't understand why the USGA and RGA don't put a max putter length in the rules.  That would get rid of all this.

I'm pretty sure that no club may be longer than 48 inches.  Not even a putter.

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1 hour ago, Brinkie said:

I don't understand why the USGA and RGA don't put a max putter length in the rules.  That would get rid of all this.

It is in the rules:  The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457m) and, except for putters, must not exceed 48 inches (1.219m).

We could make if 35" but  I can still armlock with a 35" putter.  

 

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Heck I bought the same grip ($32.00 freaking dollars)that Bryson uses, turned the flat side against my forearm, and still couldn’t make it work Consistently!especially from long distances. Hell it’s akin to using a blue tick or a redbone hound. Neither one works well for all coon hunters.


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Horschel should use the armlock then maybe he'd be a better putter. He's a whinner 

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10 minutes ago, cnosil said:

It is in the rules:  The overall length of the club must be at least 18 inches (0.457m) and, except for putters, must not exceed 48 inches (1.219m).

We could make if 35" but  I can still armlock with a 35" putter.  

 

You're correct, I was wrong, I should learn to check the rule before I type.  Even so, the armlock users aren't using really long putters, not as long as the nearly chin-height putters used by Scott and Langer.  And a putter that's appropriate for a tall player would be easy to armlock for a shorter player.  The length would have to be pretty short to eliminate the armlock stroke.

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I tried arm lock today for the first time. I had a two ball long putter that I sawed off to 41 inches. I have to say it worked pretty good' especially the longer than 10 foot putts. I found that I was less inclined to change the face angle just before contact so that the ball usually went where I was aiming and my distance control was better. Shorter putts were a little more difficult though. The reason was that the stance is uncomfortable getting used too. Having to use the Claw grip contributed because you have to lean over much more.

Only one three putt today versus the normal four or five.

 

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59 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

 The length would have to be pretty short to eliminate the armlock stroke.

Yep,  If I go left hand low,  I can "armlock" my 35" putter a few inches above the wrist. 

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This whole thing came off as “whining” to me, “they are doing it too good” really???? So should hybrids be illegal because some guys hit them too good? Should stiff wristed wedge shots be illegal because Steve Stricker is so good at it??

If you think it’s an advantage then learn to putt that way


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I know there is a max length rule I was saying it should be shorter for putters..36" max, you could still arm lock but would have to change so much

Golf without a cigar has not been a good use of time.

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I know there is a max length rule I was saying it should be shorter for putters..36" max, you could still arm lock but would have to change so much

You acknowledge you can still armlock with 36” so why cut it off there. How would you account for a tall player with short arms that needs longer to do a conventional grip. Basically you are telling that person sorry you can’t putt like everyone else you need to find a different way, we had to make a rule to stop those armlock people.

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43 minutes ago, cnosil said:


You acknowledge you can still armlock with 36” so why cut it off there. How would you account for a tall player with short arms that needs longer to do a conventional grip. Basically you are telling that person sorry you can’t putt like everyone else you need to find a different way, we had to make a rule to stop those armlock people.

Then why have a limit on any clubs? Or do what should be done- ban the armlock for being an improper golf stroke

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If you look at Horshel’s grip of the putter, you’ll notice that

the putter if firmly locked on his wrist. Billy is a good player

with a great golf swing. However he challenges Speith in the

whining department. Shut up and play Billy, you can control

only your own play. 

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

Then why have a limit on any clubs? Or do what should be done- ban the armlock for being an improper golf stroke

@cnosil hits his 4h way more consistently than i hit my 4i.  do what should be done and take that out of his hands  

i think the ruling bodies should make it so that everyone has to hit irons with the same length and loft as me to make things fair. 

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16 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

@cnosil hits his 4h way more consistently than i hit my 4i.  do what should be done and take that out of his hands  

i think the ruling bodies should make it so that everyone has to hit irons with the same length and loft as me to make things fair. 

I don't think you understood the comments. The point is to NOT restrict club length, but to disallow the improper technique.

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2 minutes ago, LICC said:

I don't think you understood the comments. The point is to NOT restrict club length, but to disallow the improper technique.

This is getting carried away. There is no proper technique to swing a club or putter. Everybody does things differently in their swing due to any number of physical or mental limitations. 
 

Also as far as armlock being an advantage, it is only an advantage if you can do something NOBODY else can do. Anybody can use the armlock therefore it is not an advantage. I am sure Billy and others have tried armlock and decided on their OWN that the benefits did NOT outweigh the negatives. 
 

Play however you want with whatever equipment you want and abide by the rules for any tourney you enter. It isn’t that hard to understand or figure out. All your doing is coming off as whiny as a multimillionaire complaining that somebody putts better than him. 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

This is getting carried away. There is no proper technique to swing a club or putter. Everybody does things differently in their swing due to any number of physical or mental limitations. 
 

Also as far as armlock being an advantage, it is only an advantage if you can do something NOBODY else can do. Anybody can use the armlock therefore it is not an advantage. I am sure Billy and others have tried armlock and decided on their OWN that the benefits did NOT outweigh the negatives. 
 

Play however you want with whatever equipment you want and abide by the rules for any tourney you enter. It isn’t that hard to understand or figure out. All your doing is coming off as whiny as a multimillionaire complaining that somebody putts better than him. 

The USGA has ruled that anchoring a belly putter is an improper technique to swing a putter.

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6 minutes ago, LICC said:

The USGA has ruled that anchoring a belly putter is an improper technique to swing a putter.

Let’s just say I call it an illegal stroke not an improper technique. 

 

 

 

What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag

Driver:    :cobra-small: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45”

Fairway: :srixon-small: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5”

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2 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

Let’s just say I call it an illegal stroke not an improper technique. 

didn’t peewee herman use an illegal stroke in a movie theater one time?

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2 minutes ago, Chip Strokes said:

didn’t peewee herman use an illegal stroke in a movie theater one time?

Possibly but it sure wasn’t armlocked or anchored!

 

 

 

What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag

Driver:    :cobra-small: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45”

Fairway: :srixon-small: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5”

 :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Driving Iron: :ping-small: Rapture 2-Iron 

Irons: :edel-golf-1: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s 

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft

Putters: :L.A.B.: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie

              :EVNROLL: EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie

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Also,  in the article Horschel states:
"I think when you look at what guys are doing now with the arm lock and moving the grips to the side where it's parallel or matches the face and then when you do that up against your arm, I mean, it's—you know that face is dead square and that face doesn't rotate at all," Horschel continuted. "It's just sort of locked in. Guys are doing it too good."
To my knowledge there isn't anything in the rules that states you can't turn your normal putting grip to the side and use the flat part against your lead hand and accomplish the same thing.  You could go a little farther up and use the Superstroke wrist lock grip which basically does what I am describing but locks it in the wrist.  

Didn’t Justin Rose do this with the FlatCat for a period of time?


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I don't think you understood the comments. The point is to NOT restrict club length, but to disallow the improper technique.

Let me ask a different question. Based on your posts you are a golf traditionalist regarding equipment and want to change rules that you consider too penal or giving an advantage. Within these posts there is no changing anyone’s mine and we continue to banter back and forth. What are you hoping to accomplish with these posts? Do you just want to create animosity?

Ultimately the ruling bodies have made decisions and instead of pleading your case here perhaps writing letters and complaining to those ruling bodies might the be a better avenue.

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To me, banning the way something is being done ought to have evidence that the players who do something have an unfair advantage, which is then evidenced in who’s winning tournaments. If you look at the 2021 winner LS so far, the overwhelming majority don’t anchor, therefore, what advantage do those who use this technique really have??? Take away the green reading books if one wants to REALLY find out who can putt the best!

As @cnosilsaid way st the beginning, the definition of an illegal putting stroke doesn’t include anchoring. I think this is just Billy whining as usual......

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To me, banning the way something is being done ought to have evidence that the players who do something have an unfair advantage, which is then evidenced in who’s winning tournaments.


Was there any evidence to ban belly and broomstick anchoring, croquet, Bryson’s sidesaddle putter because of an unfair advantage. They didn’t win every week and all players were free to use them. They ruling bodies seem to use the “it takes the skill out of the game” line to justify even though those approaches take skill to do well. I think it really comes down to appearance and what people think golf should look like.

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Was there any evidence to ban belly and broomstick anchoring, croquet, Bryson’s sidesaddle putter because of an unfair advantage. They didn’t win every week and all players were free to use them. They ruling bodies seem to use the “it takes the skill out of the game” line to justify even though those approaches take skill to do well. I think it really comes down to appearance and what people think golf should look like.

Golf is a weird game. I’d like the data to drive some of these decisions, but a lot of the time it comes down to optics and what a certain group of people think the game should look like. I like to think that old way of doing things is slowly going away.

That being said, this topic seems like a lot of hot air being exchanged without any real information. I see a lot of data that suggests arm locking is far from an issue. I’ve seen nothing, other than people complaining about it, that even remotely suggests there is an issue. Such a small percentage of golfers do it, it’s hard to tell, but if it was that much better I’d like to think that more people would do it.


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2 hours ago, cnosil said:


Let me ask a different question. Based on your posts you are a golf traditionalist regarding equipment and want to change rules that you consider too penal or giving an advantage. Within these posts there is no changing anyone’s mine and we continue to banter back and forth. What are you hoping to accomplish with these posts? Do you just want to create animosity?

Ultimately the ruling bodies have made decisions and instead of pleading your case here perhaps writing letters and complaining to those ruling bodies might the be a better avenue.

I am against a method of putting that is inconsistent with the spirit of the game of golf. Should I just post things of which you agree? Isn't a discussion forum the perfect place for people to "banter back and forth"?

I am not an traditionalist regarding equipment. I am a traditionalist for the purity of the game. I don't want to see golf go down the road of baseball, which as denigrated the major league game with its analytics strategies and rules changes.

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24 minutes ago, LICC said:

I am against a method of putting that is inconsistent with the spirit of the game of golf. Should I just post things of which you agree? Isn't a discussion forum the perfect place for people to "banter back and forth"?

I am not an traditionalist regarding equipment. I am a traditionalist for the purity of the game. I don't want to see golf go down the road of baseball, which as denigrated the major league game with its analytics strategies and rules changes.

What is your definition of the spirit of the game? 

:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

:ping-small:          G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:ping-small:          G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:srixon-small:            ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S)

:titleist-small:            Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610)

:taylormade-small:     Spider GT Splitback 34"

 :titleist-small:           ProV1 #23

Twitter             @THEZIPR23

 

"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

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I am against a method of putting that is inconsistent with the spirit of the game of golf. Should I just post things of which you agree? Isn't a discussion forum the perfect place for people to "banter back and forth"?
I am not an traditionalist regarding equipment. I am a traditionalist for the purity of the game. I don't want to see golf go down the road of baseball, which as denigrated the major league game with its analytics strategies and rules changes.

The game is evolving with the things you seem to dislike and will continue to do so. Spirit and purity makes it sound like you are a traditionalist and want to go back to the way it was. You can post whatever you would like, but you posts seem like you just want an argument. I understand your perspective and what you are saying; however, things evolve; golf is evolving. Tools are enabling people to optimize and learn. Equipment is being optimized.

Armlock has been around for decades but it is suddenly a problem. Not sure how it disagrees with the spirit of the game. In the beginning of the rule book there is a section called “The Spirit of the Game” and it states the following:
Golf is played, for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules. All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game.

Dont see anything in there that says the game can’t advance and help players play better and get more enjoyment from the game.

Sounds like you just enjoy the game the way you like and not watch the professionals; because that is really a business and not the game of golf that you seek to enjoy.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe

Backup Putters:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W, :taylormade-small:TM-180

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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