Stock vs Max/Plus Driver Versions

[TM19]

I'll try to keep this brief: 

I went to try drivers at a local shop and already had convinced myself I was better suited for playing a more forgiving driver as it's typically my weakness, but I ended up hitting the "normal" version as well as the "plus/max" out of general curiosity. I found that I hit the ball much better with the stock version which was a little shocking to me. With the max versions I felt like I was swinging harder than normal for some reason, and I think that may have attributed to the poor hits. I'm just curious on what you guys have experienced with this and if anyone has any sort of insight as to why this may have been the case. Cheers! 

[BADFanBoi Scotty]

Yup. 

Typically more spin on the Max versions, so high spin player like me, even fitted with a low spin shaft, can get into strife. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

People tend to swing differently when demoing or getting for for clubs, especially drivers. They want to try and get everything out of the club and see how much distance they can get. Since this is different from how they swing on the course results are going to vary from the different heads.

Golfers in my opinion need to stop looking at their handicap, swing speeds and other similar inputs to what club to look at. Rather look at the output of ball speed, launch angle, spin, descent/land angle, apex/peak height and if possible standard deviation. These will determine what head/shaft combo work best.

Tony Finau played a 10.5 max head not long go. DJ and several other TM staffers have been in the Sim or Sim2 max or in the past the m2,4 and 6 heads.

Nelly Korda who has a higher swing speed and one of the best swings plays a TSI1 driver.

[rore73]

I was recently at a Ping Demo Day where the Ping Rep was a very patient young Aussie.  I took my Ping G400 SFT and my Ping G410 Plus drivers to the Demo Day and explained that the 400 was performing much better than the newer 410 Plus.  He explained the SFT was much better suited for my shallow swing.  He also assembled a G425 SFT with an Orange Tensil shaft that performed even better than my G400.  

[CKelley_363]

I had a driver fitting at club champion recently where I was hoping to try the Ping G425 max driver, but the fitter provided me with the LST option. Same was true for the SIM 2. He said the max versions would spin too much for me. Not sure if this helps at all. 

[garyt1957]

Might be better to list your swing speed and maybe AOA when replying so we know where your coming from

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, garyt1957 said:

Might be better to list your swing speed and maybe AOA when replying so we know where your coming from

Swing speed is nearly irrelevant in a fitting. Different monitors measure it differently. 

[garyt1957]

On 7/4/2021 at 6:08 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Swing speed is nearly irrelevant in a fitting. Different monitors measure it differently. 

Then ball speed or something to differentiate between a guy bombing it 300 and a guy hitting it 200. If you're hitting it 300 nothing you say applies to me, but if you're hitting it 220 I'm all ears.

[RickyBobby_PR]

17 minutes ago, garyt1957 said:

Then ball speed or something to differentiate between a guy bombing it 300 and a guy hitting it 200. If you're hitting it 300 nothing you say applies to me, but if you're hitting it 220 I'm all ears.

Ball speed is definitely more important because that’s an output. Someone who swing 100 mph and hits the ball on the sweet spot is going to have better ball speed than someoene hitting all over the face or consistently low heel or high toe(assuming this is outside of the small spot that’s just above center and slightly towards the toe on most brands). Aoa, launche angle, spin descent angle are also going to play a role in determining shaft as well as head type and loft. 
 

A good fitters going to look at how one is swinging to see how they load the shaft. Do they release early or late. Do the possibly cast. Do they have an aggressive or smooth transition. All factors in determining type of shaft from a profile standpoint as well as weight

[garyt1957]

10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Ball speed is definitely more important because that’s an output. Someone who swing 100 mph and hits the ball on the sweet spot is going to have better ball speed than someoene hitting all over the face or consistently low heel or high toe(assuming this is outside of the small spot that’s just above center and slightly towards the toe on most brands). Aoa, launche angle, spin descent angle are also going to play a role in determining shaft as well as head type and loft. 
 

A good fitters going to look at how one is swinging to see how they load the shaft. Do they release early or late. Do the possibly cast. Do they have an aggressive or smooth transition. All factors in determining type of shaft from a profile standpoint as well as weight

I wasn't really talking about an actual fitting. I was more talking about guys giving opinions on  clubs. If I say a driver is too low spin, for instance,  it makes a difference if I  swing 110 or 80.

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 hours ago, garyt1957 said:

I wasn't really talking about an actual fitting. I was more talking about guys giving opinions on  clubs. If I say a driver is too low spin, for instance,  it makes a difference if I  swing 110 or 80.

Still not relevant. Someone who hits it low and/or on the heel is going to spin it more than someone who hits it high and/or towards the toe. Spin is also relevant to face to path relationship someone over the top is going to have mor spin than someone who is barely out to in or someone coming in to out

[sixcat]

I can't stress enough the importance of proper fitting. Find a local PGA Professional who sells clubs in his shop. Quite often, you will find any fees associated with fitting will be waived if you purchase through the shop. I went through a complete bag fitting in April with the head professional at my home club. The experience was truly amazing!

Personally, I stopped going to the big box retailers years ago. By-in-large, those guys don't know a lot more than I do. I haven't been to a Club Champion or TrueSpec but I don't imagine I would have come away any more satisfied than I have been with my most recent experience with my pro. Especially considering the amount of money I saved in the process.

With that said, I may be a bit spoiled being a member of a stock/equity club. This may not be the norm for everyone. But my fitting process in April only further justified the cost of private membership.

[garyt1957]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Still not relevant. Someone who hits it low and/or on the heel is going to spin it more than someone who hits it high and/or towards the toe. Spin is also relevant to face to path relationship someone over the top is going to have mor spin than someone who is barely out to in or someone coming in to out

Then really, no one should bother posting any opinions about any clubs, because none of it is relevant. I don't disagree with what you posted above, there will always be outliers, but if I swing 85-90 I'm much better off considering opinions from other 85-90 swingers than guys who swing 110. 

[vandyland]

Dumb question but do you want to get fit for a consistent shot off the heel of a driver? Understanding that everyone misses it from time to time, if you are missing it off the heel over and over wouldn't this prompt a lesson(s) to fix that? Obviously not throwing out mishits as those are a part of golf but if you have a clear strike flaw like that, do you want to setup your equipment for that?

I went in for a driver fitting over a year ago and was missing it 1 out of every 4 on the heel which, as noted above, resulted in a high spin left to right fairway finder that went nowhere. As a result, I didn't buy a driver but started taking lessons and now I don't have that miss anymore. Glad I didn't buy a driver for that swing!

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 minutes ago, garyt1957 said:

Then really, no one should bother posting any opinions about any clubs, because none of it is relevant. I don't disagree with what you posted above, there will always be outliers, but if I swing 85-90 I'm much better off considering opinions from other 85-90 swingers than guys who swing 110. 

Posting opinions isn’t the issue. It’s trying to base ones choices for what to look at based on swing speed doesn’t get anyone closer to making a choice on what to look at club wise. Knowing whether the person is has a smoother or aggressive swing, do that have an in to out or out to in path and how big of a path it is. What their angle of attack is and where on the face they hit the ball. What might be low spin for one person might be ideal for another based on how they launch the ball. Same with golf balls. I have a buddy who is high swing speed, high launch and spin who was fit into the bridgestone rxs despite everything about that ball from a speed aspect not fitting him based on it being for someone under 105mph

Someone with 110 speed and an aoa of plus 6 will see different launch characteristics compared to someone with 110 and a plus 1  aoa. 

[cnosil]

6 minutes ago, vandyland said:

Dumb question but do you want to get fit for a consistent shot off the heel of a driver? Understanding that everyone misses it from time to time, if you are missing it off the heel over and over wouldn't this prompt a lesson(s) to fix that? Obviously not throwing out mishits as those are a part of golf but if you have a clear strike flaw like that, do you want to setup your equipment for that?

I went in for a driver fitting over a year ago and was missing it 1 out of every 4 on the heel which, as noted above, resulted in a high spin left to right fairway finder that went nowhere. As a result, I didn't buy a driver but started taking lessons and now I don't have that miss anymore. Glad I didn't buy a driver for that swing!

Short answer is it depends.  Longer is the dependency is whether the issue is swing or fitting related.   If there is a swing issue, the best option is to get that sorted out.  If the swing is ok or you aren’t going to fix he issues,  you could potentially make  a length adjustment to move the strike toward the middle.  
 

fitting vs swing fix is the chicken and egg type discussion.  There are aspects of a fitting that aren’t impacted by swing fixes just like there are aspects that are impacted.  

[hrfdez]

On 7/8/2021 at 7:59 AM, sixcat said:

I can't stress enough the importance of proper fitting. Find a local PGA Professional who sells clubs in his shop. Quite often, you will find any fees associated with fitting will be waived if you purchase through the shop. I went through a complete bag fitting in April with the head professional at my home club. The experience was truly amazing!

Personally, I stopped going to the big box retailers years ago. By-in-large, those guys don't know a lot more than I do. I haven't been to a Club Champion or TrueSpec but I don't imagine I would have come away any more satisfied than I have been with my most recent experience with my pro. Especially considering the amount of money I saved in the process.

With that said, I may be a bit spoiled being a member of a stock/equity club. This may not be the norm for everyone. But my fitting process in April only further justified the cost of private membership.

I wish I would have come across this post before I wasted my time and money with Club Champion.  I won't go into it as this was my own personal experience and it doesn't reflect that of others, but I can tell you the experience was very poor and I have a useless driver in my basement.

Next time this is the route I'm going to go.

Thanks for sharing.