Greenside bunker play

[BMart519]

During my last round of the year the sand in all the traps felt very firm and thin (could have been frost just below the surface). My shoes would only sink in 1/4" to 1/2" deep wiggling my feet back and forth. I knew that if I tried to open my sand (54/12) wedge a bit and take sand behind the ball as normal I would likely end up bouncing the leading edge into the ball and blading it. All day I decided to use my 60/10 LW with the face square to the target and pick the ball clean or take the least sand possible. The result was 1/3 on sand saves and leave distances of 7, 9, and 9 ft from 28, 20, and 15 yards from the pin. 

When I practice wedges I'm usually hitting off clean lies and have benchmarks for 5-30 yards in 5 yard increments. I have limited opportunities to use practice bunkers, especially to the point of benchmarking feels for 10/20/30 yards of carry. Hitting the ball clean made carry much more predictable and aligned with my benchmarks, taking minimal sand allowed enough spin to have some stopping power on the green. On a normal sand shot, I am aiming for the club to enter the sand 1-2" behind the ball then adjust effort by distance which is basically a wild ass guess as to how far the ball will carry and then roll out.

Other than the obvious risk of skulling the ball, what are the other downsides to using this approach permanently? Considering my sand save% was 13% on the year, I don't think I have much to lose. The reason I wonder is, it was by far the best sand play I had all year and Shot Scope had me +0.53SG versus scratch out of the sand as someone who usually performs to the level of a 20 HCP within 50 yards. (I was +0.03 SG vs 25 HCP or -0.69 vs scratch from greenside bunkers on the season...) I have a very shallow attack angle with my irons and barely take a divot, so this is something that feels more comfortable than burying my club into the sand with what feels like a 60 yard swing.  

[ejgaudette]

17 hours ago, BMart519 said:

During my last round of the year the sand in all the traps felt very firm and thin (could have been frost just below the surface). My shoes would only sink in 1/4" to 1/2" deep wiggling my feet back and forth. I knew that if I tried to open my sand (54/12) wedge a bit and take sand behind the ball as normal I would likely end up bouncing the leading edge into the ball and blading it. All day I decided to use my 60/10 LW with the face square to the target and pick the ball clean or take the least sand possible. The result was 1/3 on sand saves and leave distances of 7, 9, and 9 ft from 28, 20, and 15 yards from the pin. 

When I practice wedges I'm usually hitting off clean lies and have benchmarks for 5-30 yards in 5 yard increments. I have limited opportunities to use practice bunkers, especially to the point of benchmarking feels for 10/20/30 yards of carry. Hitting the ball clean made carry much more predictable and aligned with my benchmarks, taking minimal sand allowed enough spin to have some stopping power on the green. On a normal sand shot, I am aiming for the club to enter the sand 1-2" behind the ball then adjust effort by distance which is basically a wild ass guess as to how far the ball will carry and then roll out.

Other than the obvious risk of skulling the ball, what are the other downsides to using this approach permanently? Considering my sand save% was 13% on the year, I don't think I have much to lose. The reason I wonder is, it was by far the best sand play I had all year and Shot Scope had me +0.53SG versus scratch out of the sand as someone who usually performs to the level of a 20 HCP within 50 yards. (I was +0.03 SG vs 25 HCP or -0.69 vs scratch from greenside bunkers on the season...) I have a very shallow attack angle with my irons and barely take a divot, so this is something that feels more comfortable than burying my club into the sand with what feels like a 60 yard swing.  

My home course has rough bunkers that are usually pretty hard packed and I have to do the same thing with my 56, a Ben Hogan with v-sole, in using that forward low bounce. If you open it up then it is going to be bladed. I tend to swing just a bit harder and aim to hit just a bit behind the ball so fight thining it, but usually leads to ending up on the green at the worst and if I practiced a bit more I think it would really be consistent. They actually touched on this on the latest Hack It Out podcast I think with the same idea, take the lower bounce wedge and play it square.

[cnosil]

18 hours ago, BMart519 said:

 

Other than the obvious risk of skulling the ball, what are the other downsides to using this approach permanently? 

Shallow angle of attack with firm bunkers is probably the right approach.  The question is how will that translate to fluffy bunkers when the ball settles down a little.    Most of my courses locally have firm bunkers and this is the best technique.  When I get in the fluffy ones I tend to struggle.  
 

golf is about adapting to different conditions which include grass types and sand textures.   With you low sand save percentage, it seems like a change is in order.  

[THEZIPR23]

I grew up playing in these types of bunkers your method can work however I think the margin for error is extremely small. I wouldn't suggest burying the club in the sand either. My approach is different but may work for you as I am very shallow AOA as well. I use a 60 with very little bounce (3*) face open. I pick a spot to hit behind the ball that I think will result in the ball coming out the right distance. At that point the only goal I have is to maintain the face angle throughout impact. I am one of the best bad bunker players around with this method. Now as Chris stated when they get fluffy or even firm but have a good base of sand, those bunkers are where I struggle. 

[Kenny B]

I have a mixture of fluffy and hard sand bunkers at my course depending on the time of year.  It's a muni, but they do a pretty good job with maintenance.  They add new sand to most bunkers once a year; the wind blows it out of certain bunkers more than others.  

I was never a good bunker player until I got my Callaway PM Grind 60º with 12º of bounce; I also added the 54º with 14º of bounce for longer sand shots.  Oh yeah, I also watched Monte's lessons in his Use The Bounce 2.0 video.  It does take some practice, but I think the high bounce wedges are more versatile, especially with varying sand conditions like I have.  In Monte's videos he always takes about "Ferrari vs minivan acceleration"; minivan is good for short game shots.  In his video on hard pan he compares acceleration to a "turtle vs a snail".  You have to manage your speed (very little) and not much acceleration.  Yes, you have to pick the ball.  He picks a 60º with 14º bounce off a concrete cart path.  Even a caveman like me can do it!

[BMart519]

2 hours ago, Kenny B said:

I have a mixture of fluffy and hard sand bunkers at my course depending on the time of year.  It's a muni, but they do a pretty good job with maintenance.  They add new sand to most bunkers once a year; the wind blows it out of certain bunkers more than others.  

I was never a good bunker player until I got my Callaway PM Grind 60º with 12º of bounce; I added a 54º with 14º of bounce for longer sand shots.  Oh yeah, I also watched Monte's lessons in his Use The Bounce 2.0 video.  It does take some practice, but I think the high bounce wedges are more versatile, especially with varying sand conditions like I have.  In Monte's videos he always takes about "Ferrari vs minivan acceleration"; minivan is good for short game shots.  In his video on hard pan he compares acceleration to a "turtle vs a snail".  You have to manage your speed (very little) and not much acceleration.  Yes, you have to pick the ball.  He picks a 60º with 14º bounce off a concrete cart path.  Even a caveman like me can do it!

More bounce doesn't work for my swing and the firm conditions in the "rain shadow" of the Rocky Mountains. I bought a 54/14 PING Glide 2.0 with a Wide Sole grind to match my Glide 2.0 LW and replace my old 56 SW for better gapping. The Wide Sole 14 immediately worsened my play and I swapped it out for the 54/12 SS grind which is a more versatile mid-grind and works better for "standard" conditions around me.

 

2 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I grew up playing in these types of bunkers your method can work however I think the margin for error is extremely small. I wouldn't suggest burying the club in the sand either. My approach is different but may work for you as I am very shallow AOA as well. I use a 60 with very little bounce (3*) face open. I pick a spot to hit behind the ball that I think will result in the ball coming out the right distance. At that point the only goal I have is to maintain the face angle throughout impact. I am one of the best bad bunker players around with this method. Now as Chris stated when they get fluffy or even firm but have a good base of sand, those bunkers are where I struggle. 

 

I just bought a 58/6 Glide 3.0 with thin sole to replace my 60/10 SS since it is primarily used for firm and thin sand bunkers or short lobs greenside. Outside of the sand I like picking it clean and minimizing divots. We'll see how this new wedge works, it's 4 deg less bounce than anything I have used before. I generally use the old school approach of open your stance, open the club face and swing across it in the sand. But I will add this to the list of experiments where I setup square but still open up a bit for some relief with the lower bounce. 

[Kenny B]

5 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

More bounce doesn't work for my swing and the firm conditions in the "rain shadow" of the Rocky Mountains. I bought a 54/14 PING Glide 2.0 with a Wide Sole grind to match my Glide 2.0 LW and replace my old 56 SW for better gapping. The Wide Sole 14 immediately worsened my play and I swapped it out for the 54/12 SS grind which is a more versatile mid-grind and works better for "standard" conditions around me.

 

 

I just bought a 58/6 Glide 3.0 with thin sole to replace my 60/10 SS since it is primarily used for firm and thin sand bunkers or short lobs greenside. Outside of the sand I like picking it clean and minimizing divots. We'll see how this new wedge works, it's 4 deg less bounce than anything I have used before. I generally use the old school approach of open your stance, open the club face and swing across it in the sand. But I will add this to the list of experiments where I setup square but still open up a bit for some relief with the lower bounce. 

I'm in the "rain shadow" of the Cascade Mountains; terrain looks a lot like Las Vegas.  Most of the courses around here keep up their bunkers pretty well, but the sand varies a lot from course to course and bunker to bunker.  I play my best with high bounce wedges; never had much luck with low bounce.  My miss tends toward digging too deep.  Doesn't mean that I don't blade some, but I never have a problem getting out of bunkers.  Five years ago, it took me 2-3 shots to get out!!

[mharr]

While I cannot claim to play well enough to give advice overall how to play sand shots, I would like to address you specific situation with the unusual hard sand you encountered.

When I have a sand shot out of hard sand (wet, frozen, not groomed, or mostly dirt), or when playing green side hardpan lie, I use a 60º wedge with 4º bounce, and just play the normal shot I would with a regular 56º/10º sand wedge.  The low bounce will keep it from bouncing and blading the ball, but being a moderately wide sole (wider than an iron), it will not dig.  That allows me to play the same swing, same feel as my usual sand shot.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Less bounce more square in little to no sand or hard sand. 
 

More bounce and open face in fluffy sand or bunkers with more sand.