Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[Vernon]

Man this "scientific" experiment stuff is tuff business!  My brother was wanting to try the MP on Saturday so I stuck the Distanza back in my G430 and drove it pretty dang good.  The Distanza didn't offer up any of the 290 plus tee shots that I've been getting with the MP and Pro Launch but was very straight and in the 250's up to 280's pretty consistently.

My brother hooked his first few tee shots with the MP but then found a rhythm and was hitting the thing easily fifteen to twenty yards farther than usual.

As for the Distanza it's also a very stable feeling shaft -  in my hands anyways although more muted at impact - not as "crisp" feeling as the Pro Launch or MP.

I've not tried any other shafts in my G430 fairways and really like the Distanza in those but have a suspicion that the MP might make a great fairway wood shaft.

I still think I'm gonna cut an inch off of the MP just for giggles and if I don't like the shorter length in the driver then I'll try it in the five or seven wood and just order another one for the driver.  

If I can get it back from my brother that is........

Kinda tempted to try the MP in a Senior flex as well.

So many options yet so little time........

Got rained out Sunday and didn't play or hit balls yesterday but will be back out there this afternoon.

 

[IndyBonzo]

19 minutes ago, Vernon said:

Man this "scientific" experiment stuff is tuff business!  My brother was wanting to try the MP on Saturday so I stuck the Distanza back in my G430 and drove it pretty dang good.  The Distanza didn't offer up any of the 290 plus tee shots that I've been getting with the MP and Pro Launch but was very straight and in the 250's up to 280's pretty consistently.

My brother hooked his first few tee shots with the MP but then found a rhythm and was hitting the thing easily fifteen to twenty yards farther than usual.

As for the Distanza it's also a very stable feeling shaft -  in my hands anyways although more muted at impact - not as "crisp" feeling as the Pro Launch or MP.

I've not tried any other shafts in my G430 fairways and really like the Distanza in those but have a suspicion that the MP might make a great fairway wood shaft.

I still think I'm gonna cut an inch off of the MP just for giggles and if I don't like the shorter length in the driver then I'll try it in the five or seven wood and just order another one for the driver.  

If I can get it back from my brother that is........

Kinda tempted to try the MP in a Senior flex as well.

So many options yet so little time........

Got rained out Sunday and didn't play or hit balls yesterday but will be back out there this afternoon.

 

It sounds like you swing a bit faster than me, as I was averaging 270+ with the MP, but to your point I am trying the L flex and I find it to be very stable and manageable.  It does not feel like the PLB L flex at all, which I could not control.  

[David Leighton Reid]

After reading some of the comments about the UST MP5 ladies flex shaft working with heavier heads, I went to ebay and purchased one to try in my Ping G425 Max 9° driver.  Price was $45 + shipping and tax for a total of $57.12.  Then out of curiosity, I checked Golf Works and found the same shaft for $39.99 + $8.99 shipping = $48.98.  DANG!  I should have read back to page 67!  

Now I will be comparing my Ping driver with the MP5 ladies flex to my PXG 0311 driver with the PLB 45 in senior flex.  The Fuji Ventus Velocore 5S shaft currently in my Ping driver may wind up on the open market.  

[vandyland]

I posted this in another thread but it is relevant here. I put the GPLB A flex against the Vanquish R flex (same playing length and weight and they feel about the same as far as flex). I think they are a close comparison in my very unscientific "whippyness" test waggling the club. Anyway, I had them both in 10.5* setting which is not ideal for optimal launch and here is how they shook out:

and the VANQUISH:

The VANQUISH had tighter dispersion for similar results but spun a bit more and launched a bit higher (due to the spin I am sure). So I did what anyone who has followed this thread would do and I turned down the loft to 9.5* and VOILA:

We are back! The averages for the VANQUISH at 9.5* were 272.5/299.3 yds on carry/total and spin dropped to 2366. If I compare that to the GLPB at 9.5* I was at 285.6/309.6 with 2433 spin but I was swinging the GLPB close to 3mph faster so who knows. What I can say is that, so far, the VANQUISH is slightly tighter on dispersion but not significantly better on total distance. 

 

[IndyBonzo]

Wow @vandyland those are fabulous results.  I don't think you can go wrong with either of those shafts.  You must have a very nice swing.  Well done.

[IndyBonzo]

I am loving the MP5 shaft a ton, but would love to reduce spin even a little bit more.  I don't think I am good enough to play the Paradym TD with the heavier weight in front to reduce spin that way.  I'm already gaming low spin balls (Vice Pro Soft and occasionally AVX), and I'm still learning about what affects shaft trajectory and spin.  Some brief reading suggests stiff tip shafts to reduce spin, but I know that is not the end of the analysis.  Might anyone have recommendations on certain shaft profiles in the Otto-Phlex world that may reduce spin even more?

[Vernon]

Yesterday I finally remembered to try the heavier weight in my G430 (25 gram vs. 20) while warming up on the range.

I thought it felt noticeably heavier in my hands as well as when swinging.

I hit about a dozen balls and my first thought was "HOLY CATS - I'M ON TO SOMETHING HERE!"

Each drive just felt super powerful and the ball seemed to just explode off of the face - even the sound was different.  The guy I was playing with that was hitting balls next to me even said, "What the hell are you doing over there?"

As best as I could tell visually it appeared that I was carrying it at least fifteen to twenty yards farther than previously with the 20 gram weight.

Now I usually don't believe that little tweaks like this are capable of providing such significant gains but I was seeing it with my own eyes.

Anyways I obviously couldn't wait to get to the first tee which is always the kiss of death and this was no different.

Hit a low block into the right rough on one then cold topped it on two.  On four however I got one to 288 and on five I thought I absolutely killed one but get up there and it was 247 which made no sense.

265 on the next hole then another one that I thought would be 290 plus and ended up at 248.

It was kind of back and forth like that until I got to sixteen when everything just felt "right" and total was 312 albeit a bit downhill.

Eureka!

Followed that with one on eighteen that was 292 and was really getting excited - figured I'd head to the range and really give this thing a go!

But guess what?

The range had closed at 5:00 for picking and mowing.........

Oh well - back at it this afternoon.

As I think I said before the mind is a terrible thing.......

[David Leighton Reid]

Just curious if anyone has trimmed the tip of the UST MP5 ladies flex shaft?  If so, how much?

[Bang60]

49 minutes ago, David Leighton Reid said:

Just curious if anyone has trimmed the tip of the UST MP5 ladies flex shaft?  If so, how much?

I accidentally trimmed the tip of a driver shaft by heating it too much during removal about 1.25 inches, put it in an m6 3wood that I like but can cut it bad sometimes so don't use it

[IndyBonzo]

On 6/15/2023 at 4:48 PM, David Leighton Reid said:

Just curious if anyone has trimmed the tip of the UST MP5 ladies flex shaft?  If so, how much?

I just bought another MP5 to do exactly this.  I am getting good results but still a bit too much spin, so I will trim an inch and see what we see.  

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Thinking of this again. Love my Ventus black but worry when I just don’t have the gusto for it. Thinking GLB “R” cut to play playing length at 44.5” and tipped 1”. Sound about right? My speed is similar to vandy’s but with my Ventus. 

[David Leighton Reid]

2 hours ago, IndyBonzo said:

I just bought another MP5 to do exactly this.  I am getting good results but still a bit too much spin, so I will trim an inch and see what we see.  

Great, my MP5 ladies flex should arrive tomorrow and I am planning on tipping it 1" and trimming to 44.5" playing length.  I had a good morning driving the ball with my PXG driver and PLB 45 A flex.

[IndyBonzo]

Very cool.  I am doing nearly the same.  We can compare notes.  Driver was the best part of my game today too.  

[MuniGolfer]

Took out the mp5 on Friday after cutting it down 1/2 an inch. Didn’t hit it well, but I wasn’t hitting anything well. I then played on Saturday, but didn’t trust it and played my gamer gd ad-tp 6x in my ping. I hit that really well and feel like my ball striking is coming around. We’ll see if I Can get another chance tomorrowTo get the Otto out.

[Ding-dong]

Had a week away so no practice of note, just 40 ball before my competition round. 2 main things, rear arm rotation and connecting rear elbow to body. 
Sounds silly, but I have got a bit flappy, which explains my driver randomness. 
I started with a topped 3 wood off the first, but from then on out driving was straight.. no massive path deviations and intended shape was good. I will say this and correct me if you think this is the wrong conclusion. I need to get my ball position more accurate as I get pushes off the target … the ball goes straight right by 20 yards at worse over 250 -280 yards.. so I think I am hitting with the face open and could have a more forward position?

Unfortunately my iron play was a bit ropey, and my putter was a little cold, meaning some scrambling was required but the putter failed to seal the deal. But with all these small refinements you get over thinking on it, and once it’s natural it all falls into place.

For me when the driver is delivering the scoring is better, so hopefully I can get back on track.

Just a quick question to you all, have you started to look at the most suitable golf ball ? I use Srixon Q star, Q star tour, prov1x … and I think the q star may be the ball because the green side spin numbers from measurements seems really close to pro v1x ( which is strange) but also driving it feels like a cruise missile especially in the wind 

 

I did have a super 50-55 yard chip though with a 60 degree wedge, the ball just landed went a foot forward and then came back 2-3 inches … we talk about driving but to be honest this stuff really gets me excited! 

[IndyBonzo]

@Ding-dong ball choice seems highly personal.  I am on the quest to find the perfect ball myself - low spin with good greenside performance.   The AVX works pretty well and I have been using Vice Pro Soft but it still launches high and skinny sometimes.  I want to try the Q Star Tour, Titleist Tour Speed, and Bridgestone Tour B RX.  

[Ding-dong]

1 hour ago, IndyBonzo said:

@Ding-dong ball choice seems highly personal.  I am on the quest to find the perfect ball myself - low spin with good greenside performance.   The AVX works pretty well and I have been using Vice Pro Soft but it still launches high and skinny sometimes.  I want to try the Q Star Tour, Titleist Tour Feel, and Bridgestone Tour B RX.  

AVX was good on everything except the driver for me, might be worth a revisit. I wasn’t so sure about green side spin, I think it was low but that was consistent. I find Pro V1 and 1x a little too choosy about when they want to spin .. I hate indecision . 
Vice pro soft was good but a bit soft feeling, try the std one see how you get on, unfortunately you have to buy huge batches, so being fickle I have opted out. 
Titleist tour feel /speed and soft , pretty much mimic the premium range behaviours I think. I have not really overly tested speed, but I thought it was pretty reasonable. Tour soft, I like it’s a little softer than q star but lacks the spin skin and green side behaviour but okay on wet greens . 
Bridgestone are on my list to revisit as well so be interesting to see …

 

I think the spin rates are relatively close it’s more about the launch and compression.. I actually like Srixon compression . Bridgestone has me mystified to be honest as does Titleist so it’s a bit of grope in the dark.

[MuniGolfer]

I am going to be testing a new ball for me this year too. I am also curious how the Otto phlex may influence the best for me.

[IndyBonzo]

Because so many of these are choices only available by the dozen to try, I have been doing research trying to figure out what to test without breaking the bank.  The AVX did the best for me in Foresight testing with the Otto-Phlex driver, but around the greens it leaves a lot to be desired.  After additional research, I am torn between testing the Bridgestone Tour B RX (79 compression) and RXS (65 compression).  I need to keep spin low with driver when using the Otto-Phlex, as I hit it higher and spinnier than I do an S or X shaft at around 100 +/- 3 mph. 

Bridgestone touts the RX as having better (more) greenside spin than the ProV1, and is supposed to be longer off the tee than the RXS due in part to lower driver spin as well as higher ball speed (higher compression).  Yet, the RXS claims to have more greenside spin, but is softer (which usually means less driver spin).  Huh?  It seems very confusing. 

How I wish the new MGS robot ball test was complete, as both are new in 2022 and I would love to see current comparisons on driver and iron spin rates for these in dialing in the best OP performance.

 

[azstu324]

@Ding-dong and @IndyBonzo, another ball that I've really been enjoying that seems very low spin off the tee (for me) is the Maxfli Tour S. Not only does it just seem to fly very straight without ballooning, but also seems to work well around the green. I believe it's around 85 compression so not necessarily a "soft" ball in comparison to other marshmallows out there but with 3 piece construction and urethane cover, it really holds up in short game performance. Worth a look for sure 

[vandyland]

Just as an update, the VANQUISH shaft has been AMAZING the last few rounds. I hit a few of the longest tee balls I can remember in the last few days. I had a 338 yd drive and a 325 yd drive on Sunday and today I was cruising at 280-290 yds all day. I will say it is an expensive shaft and it is NOT dramatically better than the GPLB but just *enough* of a difference to where I am happy with the VANQUISH. It plays softer to flex than Grafalloy so if anyone is looking at  one of those keep that in mind. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by vandyland

[IndyBonzo]

I did some Foresight testing this afternoon. No time to make a fancy chart, trust me the Tour RB, Tour RBS, and Maxfli Tour S were all in a dead heat for spin on the Otto-Phlex driver and optimum distance and dispersion.  I was surprised the RB and RBS were so close in spin given the purported difference in greenside spin.   They all smoked the Vice Pro Soft.  
 

my annual golf trip starts tomorrow so I picked up a dozen RB and a dozen Tour S to game during the trip.  
 

I will figure this out in time for the 2024 ball releases. 

[azstu324]

17 hours ago, vandyland said:

Just as an update, the VANQUISH shaft has been AMAZING the last few rounds. I hit a few of the longest tee balls I can remember in the last few days. I had a 338 yd drive and a 325 yd drive on Sunday and today I was cruising at 280-290 yds all day. I will say it is an expensive shaft and it is dramatically better than the GPLB but just *enough* of a difference to where I am happy with the VANQUISH. It plays softer to flex than Grafalloy so if anyone is looking at  one of those keep that in mind. 

I think one of the major objectives of the original OP was to determine if the concept was even plausible, and could we at least take one for a test drive without breaking the bank? Now that it's definitely a very realistic option for many, looking at the more expensive premium shafts in the OP range doesn't seem so completely absurd. 

I know it's not quite the same level as the Vanquish but I'm really liking the PX Cypher 50g 5.0 in my Paradym. Have thought about getting the MP5 or getting a Callaway adapter for the PLB but right now there's not much reason to change. It's a really nice shaft! Nice enough to say that I'd pay the shelf $ for it which is quite a bit more than what the PLB goes for. But I never would have known. 

[IndyBonzo]

Just a heads up on the MP5 - Golfworks' stock is down to only L shafts, and their website indicates that the shaft is discontinued and will not be restocked.  So . . . if anyone wants one, now's apparently the time (from Golfworks anyway). 

They MP5 is on sale for $39.99 at GW too, which is a steal IMO.

Wondering if UST will come out with a replacement for the MP5.  UST's Helium and Quantum shafts are lightweight, but have relatively high torque so I question their utility.  Has anyone tried the UST gold shafts in OP?  

Good points re potentially upgrading shafts for those who have had success.  What other magic lurks out there?

[vandyland]

32 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

I know it's not quite the same level as the Vanquish but I'm really liking the PX Cypher 50g 5.0 in my Paradym. Have thought about getting the MP5 or getting a Callaway adapter for the PLB but right now there's not much reason to change. It's a really nice shaft! Nice enough to say that I'd pay the shelf $ for it which is quite a bit more than what the PLB goes for. But I never would have known. 

I realized that when you quoted my last post I left out a very important word "not". I don't think there is a TON of difference between the GLPB and the VANQUISH, to be clear. 

I am cheap and I would never look at $200+ shafts (I won the VANQUISH shaft) just like I don't want to ever get into expensive wine or fancy hotels. But now that I have dipped my toe into a fancy shaft that has the profile I like, I am scared that I am going to be married to the exotic shaft game. 

All that is to say, the GLPB still can stand in there and perform. Both the VANQUISH and the GLPB are significantly less than the Otto-phlex which is the overall point. I like the VANQUISH enough that I don't think I would sell it even if I could get face value for it. 

[Ding-dong]

I currently use a UST 55 gold in my Ping g425 max 3 wood.

it’s A flex, I don’t think it’s really light enough to carry to the driver, but it’s working well in the heavy 3 wood head. 

[BMart519]

First range session with 45A PLB. Was working on a move to drop the club and shallow in transition and swinging around 80-90% of max speed which should help using the lighter shaft. Noticeably higher ball flight, but was only able to match carry number of my gamer shaft and was below it on average based on launch monitor numbers. 

My stock ball flight is a fade, so dropping loft and opening the face isn't a good option for me. Will give it a few more tries on the range and maybe once or twice out on the course. 

[azstu324]

50 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

First range session with 45A PLB. Was working on a move to drop the club and shallow in transition and swinging around 80-90% of max speed which should help using the lighter shaft. Noticeably higher ball flight, but was only able to match carry number of my gamer shaft and was below it on average based on launch monitor numbers. 

My stock ball flight is a fade, so dropping loft and opening the face isn't a good option for me. Will give it a few more tries on the range and maybe once or twice out on the course. 

What driver head just for reference? I've been playing the Paradym TD at 10.5° but with the weight forward. This is giving me some higher flying but lower spinning bombs that I'm really liking. 

Moving the weight though isn't an option that some have. 

Have you tried the lower loft yet? Perhaps with a draw stance? I.e. front door moved back a few inches? Or the ball further inside your stance? 

 

 

[David Leighton Reid]

As mentioned by @azstu324, the Maxfli golf balls are worth a try and they are less expensive than the high end golf balls.  I was lucky enough to be a tester for the Maxfli Tour and I am thoroughly impressed.  Check out this thread for reviews if you are interested.  

 

[BMart519]

13 hours ago, azstu324 said:

What driver head just for reference? I've been playing the Paradym TD at 10.5° but with the weight forward. This is giving me some higher flying but lower spinning bombs that I'm really liking. 

Moving the weight though isn't an option that some have. 

Have you tried the lower loft yet? Perhaps with a draw stance? I.e. front door moved back a few inches? Or the ball further inside your stance? 

 

 

Cobra LTDx LS 9deg head. I started with it on 8 Draw, moving back to 9 Draw helped straighten up ball flight. I didn't experiment with stance as I was hitting everything well including my gamer shaft in Driver. I do need to test it a bit more and will mess with stance.