DeChambeau doesn't hit his 8 iron 200 yards

[RetiredBoomer]

Just now, cnosil said:

I completely agree with you when you say it is a subjective personal preference.   However, Many follow up with the industry is lying to and deceiving golfers making is objective.   This entire conversation started because someone said brysons 8 iron isn’t an 8 iron.   We know it is because his preference is to label that club as an 8 so it is an 8 and it shouldn’t be questioned.   

Makes sense to me.

As for the lofts, yes, I liked the lofts on my older irons because I could actually use numbers like "2" and "3,"  and when the lob wedge arrived, it was a "third" wedge and not a fifth.

That said, I've got a brand new set of modern clubs, and I like them just fine.

I think of the set matching PW and GW as 10- and 11-irons at 46 and 50º,
after a 42º 9-iron,
and my 56-06 and 60-06 are the two wedges.   

Added to the 5-11 set is a 4-iron of the same make but from a much stronger lofted model.  It's a ludicrously strong 20°, serves as my driving iron, and looks better in the bag than a different driving iron as it matches cosmetically and I care about such things. It's very forgiving like a dedicated driving iron,

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

 

I think of the set matching PW and GW as 10- and 11-irons at 46 and 50º,
 

Mine are labeled 10 and 11

[GolfSpy_KFT]

42 minutes ago, golfr said:

 

 

It's just a perspective thing I guess. 

I've been paired with lots of random people at my home course and when we head to the first par 3 they will sometimes ask "what club are you hitting here?".

I always answer the same way, what does it matter?  I don't know how far your clubs go, you don't know what mine go?  Plus, I could be hitting a soft shot, a punch, a half shot....you don't know.  You SHOULD be asking, what DISTANCE are you playing this as.  

But they never do??  It's always "what club are you hitting?"

Agreed, and I said as much in my previous post "If someone I am playing with asks me what club I am using for a shot, I'll say which club it is and what distance I usually hit it."

Because sets are so different, I will always include the distance I am expecting out of a good strike.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, TK_ said:

Saying it is the PW in that set is exactly what the issue is. You’re buying into what the manufacturers want you to buy into. It should be the same across the board. Show loft/degree on the club and make it easier for everyone to see the truth. If a PW is 44 degrees, you gonna buy a 48 degree to go with you actual gap wedge, or you gonna just leave that huge gap and go feel for the 30 yard difference?

It’s a pw because the manufacturer calls it that. Just like the 48° pw in the 90s wasn’t a 9i from the 60s and 70s it was a pw from the manufacturer.

For some they may be ok with that gap. I have no problem playing a 30 yard gap because I can play multiple yardages with clubs. Could even take the 9i or 8i in that set and hit a shot I need to cover the distance.

Some may go with a 48 or even a 46 if it fits a gap. 
 

Golf was player for many years with a 6° gap between pw and sw. When I first started playin I had that 6° and only had pw and sw as my wedges.

Mr Solheim swapped labels on shafts to make them labeled stiffer than they were. 

Theres no industry standard or any club specs to include how they are measured. It’s what is so great about golf clubs these days. One can find a set makeup that woks for them.

Your driver and woods are upwards of 1.5° different loft than what’s stamped on them.

 

[StrokerAce]

...I've played with some people who use 2 different 5 irons from different sets (i.e. T200 and T100) because they're different lofts. the number on the bottom is so arbitrary that it only matters to the person using it and no one else.

[ILMgolfnut]

14 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

I think of the set matching PW and GW as 10- and 11-irons at 46 and 50º,
after a 42º 9-iron,
and my 56-06 and 60-06 are the two wedges. 

That's a reasonable approach. I don't know if Cobra tweaked the specs in the two years since I bought my irons, but current specs are 36 degrees for the 9i, 41.5 PW, 47.5 GW. I would not be a bit surprised if that GW is stronger than my old 9 iron (which is why I'd like to know the old specs). And then I have three wedges beyond that -- 54, 58 and 64. The 64 got me out of pot bunkers in Scotland, so it stays for a while.

And nobody ever asks me what I hit because I don't hit it far enough to matter.

Edited June 20 by ILMgolfnut

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

...I've played with some people who use 2 different 5 irons from different sets (i.e. T200 and T100) because they're different lofts. the number on the bottom is so arbitrary that it only matters to the person using it and no one else.

Somewhat common when playing a combo set. In some sets the 7i is used by some as that’s where the gap becomes too big for them.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, ILMgolfnut said:

That's a reasonable approach. I don't know if Cobra tweaked the specs in the two years since I bought my irons, but current specs are 36 degrees for the 9i, 41.5 PW, 47.5 GW. I would not be a bit surprised if that GW is stronger than my old 9 iron (which is why I'd like to know the old specs). And then I have three wedges beyond that -- 54, 58 and 64. The 64 got me out of pot bunkers in Scotland, so it stays for a while.

Why does it matter if it’s the old 9i? The designs of your old club and the cobras are completely different. What matters is that your gw goes the same distance each time when you make the same contact. then if it holds greens or not. 

[RetiredBoomer]

Just now, StrokerAce said:

...I've played with some people who use 2 different 5 irons from different sets (i.e. T200 and T100) because they're different lofts. the number on the bottom is so arbitrary that it only matters to the person using it and no one else.

The current model T100 5-iron is 27°,
weak by modern standards,
but the longest iron that I use as a fairway club.

The T-350 4-iron is a super-strong 20°, forgiving,
and makes a nice set-matching driving iron.

I ordered it just a little bit long and 1½° flat instead of just 1°.
I sold a Callaway dedicated driving iron that was also 20°,
and didn't lose TOO much money on it.

5 minutes ago, ILMgolfnut said:

 

And nobody ever asks me what I hit because I don't hit it far enough to matter.

Tell me about it.

[skraeling]

6 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

The current model T100 5-iron is 27°,
weak by modern standards,
but the longest iron that I use as a fairway club.

The T-350 4-iron is a super-strong 20°, forgiving,
and makes a nice set-matching driving iron.

I ordered it just a little bit long and 1½° flat instead of just 1°.
I sold a Callaway dedicated driving iron that was also 20°,
and didn't lose TOO much money on it.

Tell me about it.

My sim2OS lofts are pretty interesting:

5-20* (Ill only use this off the tee or for punching out low under trees usually)
6-23.5*
7-27*
8-31.5*
9-36.5*
Pw-42*
Aw-48*

Edited June 20 by skraeling

[fixyurdivot]

On 6/19/2024 at 8:20 AM, Shankster said:

I just thinned my 54° wedge 136 yards the other day.  A 220 “8” iron is possible, trust me. When I was doing my swing speed training I got up to around 180 with my T100S “8” at 36° iron and could push it to around  200 if I really went after one.  I’m just a weak amateur golfer.  
 

When I went for my fitting I asked my fitter if I could play the CB 620, numbers were similar with the T100S, but  I’m a high spin guy and any tech that can curb some of that is welcome.  High spin as a 5 iron would back up on a green on occasion.

I don’t think of them as which club the number says anymore, we’ll sort of.  It’s more of a (need a 140 shot or 200 carry shot).  

Alan, quit downplaying your skillset.  Somewhere in the archives we have a video of you doing flop shots with a 4i over a shed... a jacked lofted 4i at that .

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

The current model T100 5-iron is 27°,
weak by modern standards,
but the longest iron that I use as a fairway club.

The T-350 4-iron is a super-strong 20°, forgiving,
and makes a nice set-matching driving iron.

I ordered it just a little bit long and 1½° flat instead of just 1°.
I sold a Callaway dedicated driving iron that was also 20°,
and didn't lose TOO much money on it.

Tell me about it.

It’s a players type club. Similar design to clubs from the 80s and 90s.

Players distance, gi, sgi have completely different designs from face thickness, heel to toe length, weighting, vcog. All of that goes into the loft numbering 

[RetiredBoomer]

33 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s a players type club. Similar design to clubs from the 80s and 90s.

Players distance, gi, sgi have completely different designs from face thickness, heel to toe length, weighting, vcog. All of that goes into the loft numbering 

It's a players club after the MB and the CB, I imagine, but it's part of the T Series. 

I find that it plays quite similar to the DCI 962s with Aldila NV Pro 105s on them,
even though the DCIs are hard stainless steel as was then popular.

I've got UST Recoil 95s on these, and I don't notice too much of a difference.
I'm happy with them.

Edited June 20 by RetiredBoomer

[StrokerAce]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:20 AM, Shankster said:

I just thinned my 54° wedge 136 yards the other day.  A 220 “8” iron is possible, trust me. When I was doing my swing speed training I got up to around 180 with my T100S “8” at 36° iron and could push it to around  200 if I really went after one.  I’m just a weak amateur golfer.  
 

When I went for my fitting I asked my fitter if I could play the CB 620, numbers were similar with the T100S, but  I’m a high spin guy and any tech that can curb some of that is welcome.  High spin as a 5 iron would back up on a green on occasion.

I don’t think of them as which club the number says anymore, we’ll sort of.  It’s more of a (need a 140 shot or 200 carry shot).  

Agreed; this actually happened with me early in March on a sim.

I have a set of XXIO black X irons that are counterbalanced with 95g shafts (i.e. light and you can swing them fast)

My buddy who I was on the sim with saw that I hit my 8 165 and he asked me how far I could hit it. I asked him how far he wanted me to hit it. I hit it 193. but I would never ever play it that distance.

it's not impossible to hit a high numbered iron a long way; only the experts do it consistently, with the proper spin, launch and landing angle.

[Wade L]

On 6/19/2024 at 7:49 AM, cnosil said:

What era is “traditional”?  

Old Tom Morris

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, RetiredBoomer said:

It's a players club after the MB and the CB, I imagine, but it's part of the T Series. 

I find that it plays quite similar to the DCI 962s with Aldila NV Pro 105s on them,
even though the DCIs are hard stainless steel as was then popular.

I've got UST Recoil 95s on these, and I don't notice too much of a difference.
I'm happy with them.

Is the replacement for the ap2 and titleist had the t200 that was the replacement for the ap1. Then they added more lines to the t series.

But who cares if it’s part of the t series or not. Players clubs have stayed pretty consistent in loft for multiple decades. Which gets ignored by all the blowhars complaining about half lofting, when in reality 1) lofts have been getting stronger since the 60s 2) the lofts everyone complains about are on club types that didn’t exist before and are new styles with new designs that once longer blade lengths, different head weight, different cg location, thinner faces. 
 

Crying over something new while the old hasn’t changed is what these debates are stupid and nothing more than people mad about change and lack of understanding of what’s actually being done.

the rest of the post is relatively off topic a

[Javs]

7 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

I guess my question is why does it matter what loft a club is in correlation to the designated number if the clubs are gapped well and the player knows their distances?

Fully agree! The lofts don’t matter at all. You get 14 clubs. Of that 1 is a putter. So, how someone uses the other 13 clubs depends on their distances and gaps. The key is knowing your yardage for each club. 

[Javs]

5 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Somewhat common when playing a combo set. In some sets the 7i is used by some as that’s where the gap becomes too big for them.

 

Agree and that’s why in my Titleist 200 and 150 combo set, I had the 150’s 1 degree strong to blend in better. 

[Javs]

3 hours ago, Wade L said:

Old Tom Morris

Maybe it was some sheepherder with a stick and a rock! Ha ha

[RetiredBoomer]

15 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Is the replacement for the ap2 and titleist had the t200 that was the replacement for the ap1. Then they added more lines to the t series.

But who cares if it’s part of the t series or not. Players clubs have stayed pretty consistent in loft for multiple decades. Which gets ignored by all the blowhars complaining about half lofting, when in reality 1) lofts have been getting stronger since the 60s 2) the lofts everyone complains about are on club types that didn’t exist before and are new styles with new designs that once longer blade lengths, different head weight, different cg location, thinner faces. 
 

Crying over something new while the old hasn’t changed is what these debates are stupid and nothing more than people mad about change and lack of understanding of what’s actually being done.

the rest of the post is relatively off topic a

I'm coming to believe that it's mostly a cosmetic preference, Ricky.
I've said all along that the engineers know what they're doing.
I'm not even suggesting changing the clubs themselves.

All I've been saying all along, was that a different numbering system would better suit me and my preferences, but that it's absence is no great catastrophe.  I like my modern clubs.   I'm not sure why you think that I'm crying over anything.   

I guess that I just haven't explained myself well.

I do stand by my belief that sets with wider gapping would be useful for
lower swing speed players like juniors, seniors, and women.  There simply isn't sufficient demand for them, apparently.  I would definitely buy a 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50° set were it available as a stock item.  

 

Edited June 21 by RetiredBoomer

[RickyBobby_PR]

56 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

do stand by my belief that sets with wider gapping would be useful for
lower swing speed players like juniors, seniors, and women.  There simply isn't sufficient demand for them, apparently.  I would definitely buy a 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50° set were it available as a stock item.  

If you look at certain sets typically player distance and gi/sgi there are larger gaps usually in the 5-6° range. Thats because of how these models are designed for launch and spin so closer gaps in loft are beneficial.

57 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

I'm coming to believe that it's mostly a cosmetic preference, Ricky.

For you yes. You have a preference to see certain numbers on certain clubs. That setup has existed since the 80s all the way to current clubs that are like the T100, CBs and MBs. This is what many ignore in the debate about lofts. Players type clubs haven’t really changed. It’s the GI clubs that have a complete different design. Not sure why people get hung up on lofts to start with but even more so on clubs that have only been around for about 20 years that are designed to help get more height without being detrimental because the spin isn’t high like in players clubs.

The lofts on players distance, gi/sgi aren’t just cosmetic or random and don’t match the lofts of players style clubs because they don’t have the same characteristics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SteddyGolf]

This is definitely a subject that has been debated over and over again.  Bryson is a pretty savvy dude.  He gets social media and how to engage with the public.  He also knows how to create a buzz.  He is very much aware of the specificity of his irons but he doesn't really talk about them because if he did we wouldn't.  The reality is his 8 iron is that of a traditional 6 and the shaft length is that of a traditional 6 as well.  If he swung a 39 degree 8 iron with a 38 inch shaft he would still hit the ball a long dang way but it wouldn't over 200 yards.  

FYI I was watching the LPGA yesterday and they said Lexi hit a 9 iron 160 yards.  Makes you scratch your chin!   

[Haro]

Take home message for  me  is when the TV announcer says he hit his 8 iron X yards, its could be a loft of 7 or 6 iron.  
my other take message is that there is no standard loft that correspond to the Number on the iron 

 

Edited June 21 by Haro

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Haro said:

Take home message for  me  is when the TV announcer says he hit his 8 iron X yards, its could be a loft of 7 or 6 iron.  
my other take message is that there is no standard loft that correspond to the Number on the iron 

 

What nobody knows is how much he’s delofting at impact or any pro for that matter. They could say Rory is hitting his 8i and whatever distance it goes for that shot but he could have a loft of a 6i at impact.

unlike most amateurs whose 8i has the loft of a 9i, pw or other wedge at impact

[67BUDFAN]

Here's another angle to this discussion. Before buying I compared the specs between the Apex 21 and Apex 21 pro irons and decided on the 21s as I like to be forgiven at times (on the course and in life), and I was willing to accept that it would be more challenging to shape my shots with the higher offset 21s.  The Apex 21s are advertised as straight, forgiving AND distance irons, while the Pro 21s are for the low handicapper that wants to be able to shape their shots (still forgiving and long, but not as much as the 21s). Hope it's ok that I am posting this (forgive me if not), but if you take a look at the lofts and the offset numbers you will see why the 21s are the "distance" and more forgiving irons (specs from the manufacturer's site). 

[Wade L]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What nobody knows is how much he’s delofting at impact or any pro for that matter. They could say Rory is hitting his 8i and whatever distance it goes for that shot but he could have a loft of a 6i at impact.

unlike most amateurs whose 8i has the loft of a 9i, pw or other wedge at impact

I do know I heard Bryson state once that his clubs don't follow traditional or standard rules and he just puts numbers on them to name them. I heard him say on a youtube video (?) that his 5 iron is 18°. He said "it's really not a 5 iron but I call it that" so his caddie and he can communicate on which club to use. Not sure where I heard him talking about that though.

[Shankster]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:39 AM, fixyurdivot said:

Alan, quit downplaying your skillset.  Somewhere in the archives we have a video of you doing flop shots with a 4i over a shed... a jacked lofted 4i at that .

True, shot of a lifetime.  I will say, I am way behind where I wanted to be gold skill wise right now.  The last 23 months have really put a damper on any development.  Played just to have fun, and didn’t work on anything in specific…

But, I hear golf is year round in Hawaii, and I’ll have access to a practice facility again! Looking forward to it for sure.  I will be in “college” for the first little bit of this tour but I will be able to play more than 12 rounds in 2 years roughly.  

[itsteetime]

Well, I like that my clubs have numbers on them instead of guessing what a "niblick", "rut iron", "mashie" or even "mashie-niblick"? 

As far as yardage for each club,, that is where apps like Arccos Caddie or old-school pounding balls at a well-marked, i. e., lots of targets, good rangefinder, practice range come into "play".  

OK, so I am "legally" old-school at 74 y/o.  I love to play and pound balls too.  Its "fun" to find out that my range distances are off from my actual playing distances.  I don't know about everyone else as I have never found a practice area - open to the public - that supplies dozens (even just 1 dozen) Titleist Pro V1's. 

Fairways and Greens Friends

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, itsteetime said:

Well, I like that my clubs have numbers on them instead of guessing what a "niblick", "rut iron", "mashie" or even "mashie-niblick"? 

As far as yardage for each club,, that is where apps like Arccos Caddie or old-school pounding balls at a well-marked, i. e., lots of targets, good rangefinder, practice range come into "play".  

OK, so I am "legally" old-school at 74 y/o.  I love to play and pound balls too.  Its "fun" to find out that my range distances are off from my actual playing distances.  I don't know about everyone else as I have never found a practice area - open to the public - that supplies dozens (even just 1 dozen) Titleist Pro V1's. 

Fairways and Greens Friends

I’ve had the luxury to play some resort courses and some other high end courses that provide prov1s, but I have no problem with what I see on the range compared to the course, but the range I go to has decent practice balls and I know there’s about a 10% difference between practice balls and prov1s. I also know launch and spin are going to be different on mats compared to grass.