Comparing Current Clubs to Older Clubs

[The Iron Man]

I haven't seen this specifically...but is there interest in a club comparison between say the Cobra Aerojet or Dark Speed irons to say Cobra F9s and Speedzone irons. So much push is done by the R&D to consider getting the latest equipment! And yet what do I see the most of at demo days? Pretty much all I see are Aerojet irons. Is there a sense or diminishing returns with stronger lofts that we should be aware of? I know that I am happy with my Cobra F9s and Speedzones...but I'm sure that some are on the fence as far as: 1) Whether the upgrade is worth it, or, 2) Like a professional clubmaker buddy of mine says: Even with the technology advancements, each club does essentially the same thing?

[cksurfdude]

5 minutes ago, The Iron Man said:

Whether the upgrade is worth it,

#1. YMMV

Whether you decide to test different yourself - either on the range, or on the course, or with an LM by yourself or in a fitting session - only you can tell if newer works better for you.

Whether you're looking for more distance, more forgiveness, more feel or some combo of those .. you'll need to decide if newer fulfills that/those criteria for you. 

Then let's say, yes it does - only you can decide whether the cost to upgrade is worth it for you. 

Me? I'm a Club Ho (..see the "CHA" thread under Spy Chat/Daily)

 

[Triple_Putt]

My game definitely improved after getting new irons, but there are other factors at play.  Having properly fit clubs, along with shaft technology improving to suite more people, is why I think “newer” clubs are playing better than the older tech. 

[TJ Hall]

I’m still gaming irons circa 2011…TM Tour Preferred CB.  I love these irons and still hit them well.  I’ve picked up some of newer irons in a shop and just didn’t like the feel, so I still with the current gamers.  The lofts fit nicely with the utilities and wedges I have.

[The Iron Man]

2 hours ago, Triple_Putt said:

My game definitely improved after getting new irons, but there are other factors at play.  Having properly fit clubs, along with shaft technology improving to suite more people, is why I think “newer” clubs are playing better than the older tech. 

I hear you, Triple! I noticed that last summer with the Speedzone irons. And then I tried some of the F9 irons and realized how much I wanted to play both sets and determine what this year's set makeup would be. I will be heading out to the driving range hopefully this weekend to see what combination works for me. I just wondered why so many amateurs returned their Aerojet irons.  I'm thinking that they decided the lofts or simply the shafts were wrong for them. My sense was that they gained too much loft in their irons. I didn't notice this as much in the Speedzones, but we will see what the difference is between the 42.5 degree Speedzone PW and the F9 44 degree PW.

 

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

37 minutes ago, The Iron Man said:

I'm thinking that they decided the lofts or simply the shafts were wrong for them. My sense was that they gained too much loft in their irons. I didn't notice this as much in the Speedzones, but we will see what the difference is between the 42.5 degree Speedzone PW and the F9 44 degree PW.

Most amateurs don’t get fit. Most amateurs have no idea what the loft of irons they play are, all they see is a number and then does the club with that number on it go further than the one I have. They have no idea why it does or doesn’t.

Some amateurs buy new every year and some don’t. Theres a multitude of reasons why people return stuff and guessing it’s because too much loft is probably low down on the list 

 

[Rob Person]

Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

Most amateurs don’t get fit. Most amateurs have no idea what the loft of irons they play are, all they see is a number and then does the club with that number on it go further than the one I have. They have no idea why it does or doesn’t.

Some amateurs buy new every year and some don’t. Theres a multitude of reasons why people return stuff and guessing it’s because too much loft is probably low down on the list 

 

Which is better? Buy a new club or have older clubs bent for better performance?

[kam89]

8 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Which is better? Buy a new club or have older clubs bent for better performance?

I mean I'm a beginner and I'm playing mp64s from 13 years ago. You learn to hit what you have once you've developed a swing and everything is locked in then get fitted. I can't see the cost being worth it when my swing is still updating weekly

[cnosil]

18 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Which is better? Buy a new club or have older clubs bent for better performance?

IMO, there isn't a right or wrong answer for this.  Even if you buy new clubs you may still need to get them bent for better performance.    Some people buy new clubs just because they like to buy clubs and don't care about performance.   

[cnosil]

11 minutes ago, kam89 said:

I mean I'm a beginner and I'm playing mp64s from 13 years ago. You learn to hit what you have once you've developed a swing and everything is locked in then get fitted. I can't see the cost being worth it when my swing is still updating weekly

The never ending question just like the chicken or the egg;  do you fix your swing or get fit for clubs.   I'd say get tools that help make things easier;  your swing dynamics probably won't change enough to influence the results of a fitting.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

22 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

Which is better? Buy a new club or have older clubs bent for better performance?

Depends on what the issue is and how big. When bending loft you affect bounce so while adding or reducing loft might fix spin or launch it could negatively impact turf interaction.

The issue may not be loft but feel that’s causing dynamic loft to be affected so reshafting might be needed and that could get more expensive than buying a new set.

The best thing to do to avoid all that is get fit by a good fitter.

[RickyBobby_PR]

14 minutes ago, kam89 said:

I mean I'm a beginner and I'm playing mp64s from 13 years ago. You learn to hit what you have once you've developed a swing and everything is locked in then get fitted. I can't see the cost being worth it when my swing is still updating weekly

You likely develop bad habits playing incorrectly for clubs. Fittings has a bigger benefit to new and high handicap golfers. Get fit early and develop a proper swing with clubs that work with hour swing 

[The Iron Man]

22 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Most amateurs don’t get fit. Most amateurs have no idea what the loft of irons they play are, all they see is a number and then does the club with that number on it go further than the one I have. They have no idea why it does or doesn’t.

Some amateurs buy new every year and some don’t. Theres a multitude of reasons why people return stuff and guessing it’s because too much loft is probably low down on the list 

 

Okay. And the other thing pros do is figure their distance gaps without worry about the loft or specific iron numbers. To improve our own games we need to approach what goes in our own golf bags with the same mindset. That's why they don't play two clubs that go the same distance. I think it's so easy to overanalyze the loft specs and remember that all clubs are essentially designed to accomplish the same thing. 

[kam89]

7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You likely develop bad habits playing incorrectly for clubs. Fittings has a bigger benefit to new and high handicap golfers. Get fit early and develop a proper swing with clubs that work with hour swing 

I guess I'm coming at it from the angle of the money I save on clubs I can spend getting out on course and the range. isn't experience on course going to be thing a beginner  can do for their game. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, The Iron Man said:

Okay. And the other thing pros do is figure their distance gaps without worry about the loft or specific iron numbers. To improve our own games we need to approach what goes in our own golf bags with the same mindset. That's why they don't play two clubs that go the same distance. I think it's so easy to overanalyze the loft specs and remember that all clubs are essentially designed to accomplish the same thing. 

I don’t disagree with you but that isn’t what my reply was even talking about. Also some pros have no idea about their clubs. They let the fitter do all that and when it fits their window and their feel they are good. Then you have a tiger woods who knows when his loft is off by 1/2° just based on flight. There’s a story that he told the TM guys his irons were of by 1/2°, they were like no they are on spec. He said nope. They went and checked and sure enough they were off by 1/2°

i am very familiar with the buying habits of the regular golfer. I spent 6 years working in the fitting side of golf and about 15 years around the retail side along with playing with a large number of regular golfers. They have no idea about their specs. All the know is what club goes what total distance. They have no idea what loft of their club is, what the launch and spin is, or what their carry yardage is. They don’t know it because they don’t care. All it’s about is how far does it go. When the buy new all that matters is new goes further than what they have. 
 

The ones who want to get better will pay more attention but they also tend to get for.

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, kam89 said:

I guess I'm coming at it from the angle of the money I save on clubs I can spend getting out on course and the range. isn't experience on course going to be thing a beginner  can do for their game. 

Yes,  playing golf is what we want to do.    No one said a fitting has to cost money.    There are places that will help find clubs that work for your game even in the used marketplace.     If you have clubs that you can't get any height with or are hitting massive slices don't you want something that will help with that?   

[The Iron Man]

17 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t disagree with you but that isn’t what my reply was even talking about. Also some pros have no idea about their clubs. They let the fitter do all that and when it fits their window and their feel they are good. Then you have a tiger woods who knows when his loft is off by 1/2° just based on flight. There’s a story that he told the TM guys his irons were of by 1/2°, they were like no they are on spec. He said nope. They went and checked and sure enough they were off by 1/2°

i am very familiar with the buying habits of the regular golfer. I spent 6 years working in the fitting side of golf and about 15 years around the retail side along with playing with a large number of regular golfers. They have no idea about their specs. All the know is what club goes what total distance. They have no idea what loft of their club is, what the launch and spin is, or what their carry yardage is. They don’t know it because they don’t care. All it’s about is how far does it go. When the buy new all that matters is new goes further than what they have. 
 

The ones who want to get better will pay more attention but they also tend to get for.

I get that...and in any of the pro's golf bags they just play what works for them. Their caddies know more about their clubs than the players do because they need to have a trained eye for those specifics. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, The Iron Man said:

I get that...and in any of the pro's golf bags they just play what works for them. Their caddies know more about their clubs than the players do because they need to have a trained eye for those specifics. 

There are caddies that have no idea or very limited idea. We can use Rory’s caddy who is just his buddy and has very little input into what Rory does on the course.

Pros know their distances and what each club downs because they spend hours upon hours every day hitting balls on the range and or scoring on the course.

Your making points about things have nothing to with your topic and my initial reply.

If you want to talk about what pros do that’s great but that is off topic for what you posted and why I tried to on why you see so many of the Aerojet’s returned 

[The Iron Man]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

There are caddies that have no idea or very limited idea. We can use Rory’s caddy who is just his buddy and has very little input into what Rory does on the course.

Pros know their distances and what each club downs because they spend hours upon hours every day hitting balls on the range and or scoring on the course.

Your making points about things have nothing to with your topic and my initial reply.

If you want to talk about what pros do that’s great but that is off topic for what you posted and why I tried to on why you see so many of the Aerojet’s returned 

Okay. Yeah all we can say about Aerojets is that those who return them likely won't  know why they bought them. Others who kept them just focus on playing them and just enjoy playing them.  It's just something that happens. Some amateurs go back to other brands like TaylorMade and just play P770 irons. A buddy of mine did that. Or PXG irons. It's really a personal decision. Not everyone is brand loyal like me...and that's okay. I liked how the Speedzone irons felt when I played them last season. I had played the F9s in steel the previous season and played one of my best rounds but I now want to see how they play for my with UST graphite shafts. This way I can find out which combination works best for me. For me...it's all about feel, not about lofts. I know I discovered favorites last season. It will be interesting to see how my F9 4 iron will play at 5 iron length. And how my Speedzone 5 iron will play as a driving iron. Chances are my control with both the 4 and 5 irons will be much better! And the Speedzone 5 iron with 4 iron length will be a better feel for me. As for how my 5 irons played, the F9 was the better feel for me. Having them driving iron will be a bonus...I had more control with my F9 5 iron so I know that the 4-7 irons will be more consistent in those irons. The 8-GW will be a better feel in the Speedzone irons. 

 

[RetiredBoomer]

12 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Most amateurs don’t get fit. Most amateurs have no idea what the loft of irons they play are, all they see is a number and then does the club with that number on it go further than the one I have. They have no idea why it does or doesn’t.

Some amateurs buy new every year and some don’t. Theres a multitude of reasons why people return stuff and guessing it’s because too much loft is probably low down on the list 

 

I play essentially the same game with every set that I've got in my basement, and the newest set that I've got in the bag room at our club.  I'm just an average recreational player with an age diminishing game.

If my participation in golf were more competitive and less social, my interest in golf clubs would be completely about what's happening out on the track. I think that most here are like that.

But that's not the case with me.  My interest is a factor of finding it an interesting subject.

 

To another point, some amateurs are +4s who play tournaments all over the country and sometimes the world.  That's why I call myself a recreational player rather than an amateur.  Just my old-fashioned way of thinking about it.

Edited June 20 by RetiredBoomer

[Hook DeLoft]

To the OP's original question, I haven't seen anyone that commonly does comparisons between older and new models, with the exception of askgolfnut on youtube.  Once in a while, other,youtubers will compare old and new clubs but the ones I've seen are comparing very old models with new models, sometimes 30 or 40 year old clubs against new ones.  A successful youtuber isn't motivated to test say, this year's Cobra SGI irons against the previous model.  If they did that too often and found little or no difference, manufacturers would stop sending them clubs to test.  PXG has charts on their site that show an increase in distance between the new models and the previous ones, but that is usually down to either stronger lofts or lower spin, which may not be a good thing for a particular golfer.

[The Iron Man]

1 hour ago, Hook DeLoft said:

To the OP's original question, I haven't seen anyone that commonly does comparisons between older and new models, with the exception of askgolfnut on youtube.  Once in a while, other,youtubers will compare old and new clubs but the ones I've seen are comparing very old models with new models, sometimes 30 or 40 year old clubs against new ones.  A successful youtuber isn't motivated to test say, this year's Cobra SGI irons against the previous model.  If they did that too often and found little or no difference, manufacturers would stop sending them clubs to test.  PXG has charts on their site that show an increase in distance between the new models and the previous ones, but that is usually down to either stronger lofts or lower spin, which may not be a good thing for a particular golfer.

I hear you there, but anyone reading reviews from the reviewers like John Basarba and others here tend to update the latest clubs to give us equipment junkies an idea of what tidbit of information show what's improved in the latest version. My thing about this topic was to learn what factors might encourage some or keep others from upgrading. For me, the cost factor is huge. If I can save on upgrading shafts and playing the same irons, so I would hesitate to make any more iron upgrades for years to come!

[Donn lost in San Diego]

I am surprised at some recreational golfers who don't know much about their clubs, or don't care to know.  I try to learn enough to have a reason to keep or move on.  I don't keep up with new irons since I think I am set for a long time, Ping I 500 which is a 2018 model.  I used to donate to charity, by going to thrift stores and swap meets, buying good condition clubs with the idea of giving them to high schools, especially girls.  I had a few team coaches who told me they preferred steel shafts or needed stiffs, so I bought when I found.  I would take the clubs to the range, hit some balls, look up info on line, and then pass them on.  Learned a few things.  But on older models.  

[The Iron Man]

7 hours ago, Donn lost in San Diego said:

I am surprised at some recreational golfers who don't know much about their clubs, or don't care to know.  I try to learn enough to have a reason to keep or move on.  I don't keep up with new irons since I think I am set for a long time, Ping I 500 which is a 2018 model.  I used to donate to charity, by going to thrift stores and swap meets, buying good condition clubs with the idea of giving them to high schools, especially girls.  I had a few team coaches who told me they preferred steel shafts or needed stiffs, so I bought when I found.  I would take the clubs to the range, hit some balls, look up info on line, and then pass them on.  Learned a few things.  But on older models.  

I agree! The Cobra irons I'm playing are the 2019 (F9) and 2020 (Speedzone). They will carry me through the next several years! In looking at the newer Cobra irons, I take my research very seriously! I know there are those of us who take our games and our iron purchases seriously. Part of the reason as I see it is that we take our clubs more seriously is we're not only amateur players...we also have to be our own caddies. So we need to figure out our set makeup...I'm fortunate to have a mentor/coach working with me...so with his trained eye, we will figure things out.

[MN Loon]

Like far to many golfers, I thought I could buy a better game when I was younger and working.  With 3 boys who didn’t play golf - baseball - finding time to practice was difficult.  I owned 3-5 iron sets at a time, always chasing the next best thing.  
 

today I am older, kids gone, clubs have been fitted to me, and I play/practice regularly - and amazing but my handicap is 10.2 versus 16-18.  
 

Fitting and practice are the key - especially 100 yards and in.

[MarvChamp]

The only old v. new comparisons I have done involved the Maltby Playability Factor, to look at that opinion about MOI.

As ald age has diminished my golf game, I have added 2022 driver, hybrids, and 7-wood, to complement my older Mizzy JPX800HD irons and Cobra 5-wood.  Those additions were based on researching reviews of the clubs and (as always and especially) the shafts for an old guy.

Best, -Marv

[Gripit]

38 minutes ago, MarvChamp said:

The only old v. new comparisons I have done involved the Maltby Playability Factor...

 

Was waiting for someone to go there!  I am a Maltby fan and have built several Maltby iron set over the last 15-20years.  I don't look for or especially like the new stronger lofted irons being sold today.  If a club head measures high MPF, it will be a very playable club for me.  I'm not looking for more distance; at my age that's not gonna happen.  I just need a consistent performer that I can count on when I need "x" yardages.  For that reason, the older irons that are weaker lofted (45* max pw, nothing stronger) are my preference.  Great topic, btw.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Gripit said:

I don't look for or especially like the new stronger lofted irons being sold today. 

Lofts have been getting stronger since the 60s it’s not a new thing. There are plenty of clubs that have the same loft and number stamped on them that haven’t changed since the 80s. Pretty much every players type iron has the same loft today as it did in the 80s or 90s.

The stronger lofts you are talking about are in newer style of clubs. Players distance (p790 from tm, i5xx from ping) as examples, along with those in the gi/sgi. Then best part of golf is there are sets of clubs for everyone regardless of loft and number stamped on the iron.

[WiTerp50]

Variables include age/fitness as well as club technology. Buying a new set off the rack every year is suboptimal. If your woods are old enough for kindergarten or your irons are finishing middle school, then the technology can make a difference. Unless you play less than 25 rounds per year. Then it probably doesn’t make much different. I wouldn’t count on clubs to correct mishits to any great extent. For the nonbelievers a comparison of going back 4-5 releases with mid- handicappers to compare would be fun. Single digit handicappers would muddy the results as they could narrow the differences by adopting to the older clubs. 

[Donn lost in San Diego]

In 1982 the new Ping Eye 2 PW was 49 or 50 degrees.  My 2018 model of the I 500, the PW is 44 or 45 loft.  Anybody know where to find lofts of 1960s and 1970s Macgregor and Wilsons?  Were PW lofts even higher than 50 when Arnie vs Jack was the weekly battle?