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Small preview of what will be in my bag next season.

Building my Indoor Putting Green It’s getting colder in Indiana, and I really wanted a way to practice my putting this offseason. I have REALLY struggled this year, primarily on those 4-6 foot putts I SHOULD be making. It’s caused tons of 3 putts and par saves that could have been. Frustrating part is the rest of my game has been pretty solid, so I wanted to do something about it. But enough about my game, you’re here for my step by step instructions on the build. I know these get talked about a lot, and everyone always wants to know how to do it themselves. Well here you GO! If you have some pretty basic tools lying around and are at least a little handy, you can do this no sweat. Let’s get started with the instructions and I’ll summarize my time and costs at the end. I’m also going to provide links to the exact items I purchased to build this green. First, let’s talk about my finished product. It is an 8’ x 4’ raised green.. It has real, regulation sized holes/cups on each end (so you get that satisfying drop and sound, not just a little ½” step down). The surface is a remnant from Big Moss Golf. I can also add some break to the putts by adjusting the levelers (we will get to that). Everything besides the putting surface itself, can be purchased from Amazon and Lowes (or Home Depot, Menards, etc…) Materials: 8’x4’ ½” Particle Board Underlayment Qty 6 8’ 2x4’s Hole Cups Heavy Duty Furniture Levelers Putting Surface/Carpet Wood/Decking Screws 2.5” and 1” Light Duty Spray Adhesive Tools: Drill Drill Bits Miter Saw (something to cut the 2x4’s) Hole Saw 4 ⅛” Rubber Mallet Sand Paper STEP 1: Build the Frame The nice thing about the dimensions I chose, is that it really limits the amount of cutting you have to do (that was on purpose). You will lay out 2 of the 8’ 2x4’s and these will be the long sides (no cutting needed). Then, you are going to cut 5 45” sections out of the remaining 2x4’s. One thing to remember if you haven’t done much wood working, what they CALL a board is often different than what the actual measurements are. A 2x4 is kind of a generic term. They are actually more like 1.5”x3.5”. So if you do the math, that’s how you come up with the cross beems being cut to 45”, which will give you a total width of 48” or 4ft. Please note, please do you own measurements on this first, and if you are not sure, leave them a touch (⅛”) long, you can always cut more off. It really doesn’t need to be PRECISELY 48” wide, if you are off by ⅛” or whatever, it won’t really matter. It is important, that all your cross beams be the exact same length though. Mine came out really close, are the corners all 100% perfectly square, no, but as long as you are close, it’s not that big of a deal. Once you have them all cut, lay all the 2x4’s out on a nice flat surface how they will go. Start by connecting both ends. I used 2.5” wood/deck screws, 2 in each end (drill small pilot holes to make the screws go in easier). It is important that the top surface be completely flush with each other. You can sit something thin under one or the other, to level them up while you are screwing them together. The bottom side does not need to be flush to each other, but make sure the top side is. After you get the ends done, move to the middle and repeat that process, one exactly in the middle, then split each end in the middle again. Once that was done, I sat the particle board on top and walked on it, I noticed a few spots were a little ‘bouncy’, so I decided to put some more braces running through the middle. I can’t tell you the lengths on these, just measure each one and cut them individually. Attach the same way, 2 screws on each end. You should stagger them like my picture, so that you can get the screws in the end. Since I’m a right handed golfer, I staggered them to the side I would be standing on. Make sure none of the cross beams will interfere with where the holes will be. Again, make sure the top side is completely flush, the bottom side doesn’t really matter. Step2: Attach the Particle Board Underlayment This part is pretty simple. Just lay the 8x4 Underlayment on top of your frame. Shift it around til it as square with the frame as you can get it, and attach with some 1” wood screws. I went around the outside and threw 1 in the middle. This holds it in place just fine. Make sure you countersink the screws below the surface, so you don’t have any bumps on the putting surface. Step3: Cut the Holes This and installing the cups are probably the trickiest part of the build. You will need to buy a 4 ⅛” hole saw, it’s kind of pricey and this is probably the only time you’ll ever use it, but it’s necessary. Lay the putting carpet out on the underlayment (make sure it is completely flat, with no bumps). Get it positioned exactly how you want it. Since the holes were pre-cut in my putting surface, this helped quite a bit. Once you have it laid out, you can take the hole saw, carefully set in the hole, and just give it a couple quick turns to get the arbor hole started and some scoring of the actual hole. Now remove the carpet so you don’t damage it and cut the holes. This hole saw cut through the underlayment pretty quickly and it was nice and clean. Lay the carpet back on the surface and make sure the holes line up nicely. The holes are slightly smaller than the cups we are putting in, I will explain that in step 4. Step4: Install the Cups I was trying to think of the best way to secure the cups, without having to drill holes in them. So I decided to attach them just using pressure. This is why we cut a hole that is slightly smaller than the cups we are installing. This part is a little tedious, you are going to sand the inside of the holes, just to the point that the cups will just start to allow you to force them in the holes you cut. You are going to kind of do this by feel, and it will take some time. It’s very important to not remove too much, otherwise the cups will not stay in place and just fall through. You can use a power sander of some sort if you like, but be careful not to sand too much away. I used a coarse piece of sandpaper and did it by hand. Going around the hole with good old man-power. Check frequently to see how you’re doing, as soon as the cup can start being pushed in a little bit with some force, stop sanding. Now take a piece of scrap 2/4, place it on top of the cup, and start tapping it down with a rubber mallet. Tap until flush w/ the hole you cut (the video below should help visualize this process) Step5: Install the Furniture Levelers Why furniture levelers? 2 reasons. The porch I am putting my green on, is not perfectly level, so when I had a putting mat before, I could never have a perfectly straight putt. This allows me to make the surface exactly level, side to side and back to front. ALSO, these levelers are easily adjustable with an allen wrench, so I can add break to my practice putting anytime I want. These are very easy to install. I placed the 4 levelers, about 10” from each end, on the sides. They have a lip underneath, just put them in place and shoot the 4 provided screws in. Easy Peasy. (If you make your green longer than 8ft, you might want to get 2 sets of these, so you can put another 2 in the middle, it may start to bow when you stand on it if you don’t...at my length of 8ft, it did not). Once installed, you can lay a level on top and adjust the feet, til the surface is nice and level. Step6: Install a lip Not necessary, but you’ll probably want a lip, at least behind the holes, so the balls don’t roll off. This you can kind of use your imagination, a piece of molding, small thin piece of wood, I used something I already had laying around. It’s a piece of pvc that is used for window molding. As you can see, it has a lip on each end, so I cut it in ½ and tapped the lip in between the frame and underlayment. You don’t have to do it that way, you can just tack a strip of whatever you like to the edge w/ some small nails. No wrong way to do this, as long as it’s not interfering with the holes. Step7: Install the putting surface This should be pretty easy, you already did it once before cutting the holes. Clean the underlayment off good before doing it, get all the dust and dirt off. Then lay the carpet down, get it good and lined up with the holes and edges. You may have some little bumps from the carpet being rolled up, I recommend letting it sit a couple days to completely flatten out (you can put some weight on it too, start in the middle and move outwards, leave whatever you are using on for a couple hours). Once you have it laying perfectly flat, you can apply some spray adhesive. I used something that is pretty light duty, in case I ever need to take the carpet up and reposition it, I could. The carpet will actually stay in place by itself, it has a rubber backing and doesn’t shift when you walk on it, even without adhesive. But you will want to be able to vacuum it from time to time and you don’t want the vacuum to pull it up. Starting at one end, fold the carpet over in half. Spray a light coat of the adhesive on the underlayment, and then lay the carpet back down. Then repeat the process on the other end. Then I just patted around the edges and holes with my hands. I let it dry about 30 min, then ran the vacuum over the surface and it stayed in place perfectly. CONGRATULATIONS!! YOUR INDOOR PUTTING GREEN IS COMPLETE!!!! Total Build Time: about 3 hours or so, I did it in the evenings over a couple nights, didn’t keep the exact time. Total Cost: (I already owned all the tools needed except the hole saw and had screws on hand as well) A Couple of Notes Build it where you want to use it if you can. It will be heavy and awkward to move You can adjust this build to whatever size you want to make it. The only tricky part may be making sure the underlayment is perfectly flush if you have to use more than 1 piece. My build was pretty easy, because I just made it the size you buy the piece in. So it’s one, solid, continuous piece of wood This is not a commercial for Big Moss, you can use whatever putting surface you want. But I do recommend them highly. Simply go on their contact page and submit a question about buying a remnant. You will most likely be contacted back that day, by the owner Tony. He is a great dude and great to work with. Prices are going to vary from what I bought depending on what he has on hand and what you want Have them cut the holes for you in the putting carpet. This will save you a lot of trouble and it will no doubt be cleaner than you or I can do it. He did it for a VERY small fee. Well worth it and you can tell him exactly where you want the holes. I bought a tarp to cover mine while i’m not using it. The last putting carpet I had, my cats used as a wrestling mat and a place to puke up hairballs With these dimensions, I can comfortably practice up to a 6ft putt and add break to it if I want. If I think of anything else, I will add to this thread. I am more than happy to answer any questions you may have. Happy Putting! Links to the products I used Hole Saw - Lowes https://www.lowes.com/pd/LENOX-4-1-8-in-Bi-Metal-Arbored-Hole-Saw/1000680193 Furniture Levelers - Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4BUE1P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Cups - Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071WHDGBN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 2x4’s Lowes https://www.lowes.com/pd/2-x-4-x-8-ft-Whitewood-Stud-Common-1-5-in-x-3-5-in-x-8-ft-Actual/1000074211 Underlayment- Lowes https://www.lowes.com/pd/1-2X48X96-PARTICLEBOARD-UNDERLAYMENT/3010167 Big Moss https://www.bigmoss.com/crm.asp?action=contactus Adhesive - Lowes https://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-General-Performance-Spray-Adhesive-13-5-fl-oz-Bonding-Clear-Multipurpose-Adhesive/1000403657

Whenever I hear someone who is not as good as they think they are talking about how you'll never get good playing GI clubs, I immediately reference you, in saying, "Well I know a guy who said the G700's helped him take another .75 to 1.2 strokes off his game, when they scoff at that saying it's not much. I say, "Oh I forgot to mention he was already a +1.5 At that point, I say, "The Defense Rests" ha'

I have done a couple of tests for MGS. I did the Renegar wedges which were pretty decent after I modified them for me . Some folks that looked at them locally said they reminded them of the Solus wedges which they were basically the same thing. I remember a bud and mine were paired with a couple of out of town golfers and I was spinning the crap out of those wedges. One wanted to know if they were legal? I told him absolutely. He remarked he wondered. My buddy told him I could spin any wedge with my trap cut hitting style. I do not think these guys had any fine golf knowledge whatsoever because they looked confused. I do not think I persuaded anyone to buy them even though I tried. I felt a moral obligation to promote them since they gave them to me free to test and evaluate. The next test I did was the Original Nexus range finder and I still have and use the one they gave me. I know for a fact I was responsible for several locals buying them and using them. I can remember my bud down the road at the golf shop sold them. I was in there one day and mentioned the fact I was one of the testers on MGS and they looked it up. In fact they used all our reviews to promote and sell that unit. He sold a bunch of them As far as tests I do not do a lot of them because as you guys know I am into the older equipment. I also do not have the time anymore to test equipment like I do it. Also I do not apply much due to the fact I will not really use the equipment and I would rather another member that would actually need or use the equipment to test it Now I do like to read the reviews and take some pride in the fact I was chosen for the team that developed the testing templates for the reviews. Brings back pleasant memories of working with guys like Shawn and others on that team. Shawn and others did the actual set up on the computer I just added my opinion. But I will say every review I have read the Members have done a great and honest job.

It's a trade-off. Simple as that. Players who slot into the Player's Distance, Game Improvement, and Super Game Improvement iron categories are using them because they need the extra help they're designed to provide. High handicappers, or inconsistent ball strikers and players whose swing speeds have dropped off need clubs that provide extra forgiveness and added ball speed. How do you achieve that? Blades and split cavities aren't forgiving enough and slow swing speed players will struggle with gapping in the long irons with those as well as they can struggle to get the ball airborne without help. I think by now we all realize forgiveness is increased with perimeter weighting and low and deep CGs help to get the ball in the air for players who struggle to get it airborne. But that comes with a caveat. Lowering the CG means centered strikes spin less. Why? The gear effect. How do you stabilize lower spinning ball flights? You add ball speed. How do you add ball speed? You decrease the loft for better energy transfer. You hollow out the head and use a thin high strength face that flexes. Decreasing loft also helps manage the launch angle increase through the gear effect to make it more gameable for these players. It's all about what trade-off you're willing to accept to help you hit the ball better, no matter how inconsistent your strike is. The engineers who design these clubs are incredibly smart people. They understand the underlying physics behind club design. This isn't just marketing mumbo jumbo. It'd be wonderful if everyone who played golf got professionally fit for their clubs, but they don't. But even then, I think most of us have gaps that aren't perfectly in-line with recommended gaps. It comes down to where you're okay with having a larger gap. If you have a GI set of irons through to a gap wedge, does it matter if you have a 25 yard gap to your specialist forged SW? No. I think we all have an easier time controlling shorter irons and wedges, so why not just take something off the GW if you need to hit a shot within that gap? But on the other hand, if you play GI irons, should you be playing specialist forged wedges? Probably not. And this is the area more OEMs need to address. As I mentioned in an earlier post, PXG does offer up to a LW in their GI and SGI irons but not a lot of other companies do. The issue with those, though, is the sole design and grinds aren't as versatile but that might not matter depending on the player in question. Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

I have only tested the Lynx irons for MGS and I must say that no one was really interested due to the name. To be fair most of my golfing buddies weren’t playing when I started so they never really knew the name Lynx. However with that said, there isn’t a round that goes by where somebody will ask what I have heard or know about some piece of equipment (usually drivers). I would say that on average I quote something I read on the blog, reviews, or from other users comments on equipment. This place is a wealth of knowledge and while perhaps not individually influencing on everything, the sum of it all is tops in my book! Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Semiannual two day points tourney this weekend....but, trip storm blowing a bunch of rain our way tomorrow. Wish us luck. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Great topic Rob! I know I've read and have been influenced by other reviews for certain products. Knowing what quality of content is being provided has really helped me in the few reviews that I've done. My very first review was the 2018 Bridgestone XW-1 Wedges (still in the bag!). I do specifically know that 1 friend purchased a full set of wedges just by golfing with me and trying out my set. I know of at least a few others who didn't necessarily purchase the wedges but found unexpected interest in Bridgestone as I had mentioned being highly impressed with Bridgestone clubs while researching their lineup. Just as much as I had hoped our review would influence MGS readers and fellow golf buddies, I'd like to think that the reviews played a part in the 2019 lineup. One of the most mentioned/discussed visual aspects of the club was the large mass badge placed on the back of the club. While it was a functional piece of the club, many found it off-putting. I actually like the way it looks. Well wouldn't you know it, 2019 models came out without the badge. I'm sure Bridgestone has other mediums of test groups to help conclude their decisions, but I'd like to think we were the most important.. Lynx Prowler VT - This testing was interesting to say the least. While the clubs were beautiful and fun to play, there is literally NO market for Lynx Clubs in the US at the moment. Even their website was mostly under repair while we were testing so there was just little to no reference throughout the whole process. Because there's no benchmark or established presence, people just can't get excited about something that they don't know how to get their hands on.. with little effort anyhow. The hardest part of the process was trying to get people to take the clubs seriously. The people that I showed the clubs to were honestly more interested in my Maltby's. I'm chalking this one up to Lynx preparing themselves for the US Market and the testing was intended to be more part of their R&D rather than marketing. Additionally, when I had ended the testing and determined that the clubs were better suited in someone else's hands rather than mine, it was nearly impossible to find someone even interested in taking them. It left me with a pit in my stomach because they are such wonderful clubs. Here's a twist... It's interesting that you ask about influencing others to buy.. but what about to avoid? When I did the Bridgestone e12 ball review, I was very up front and open about my dislike for the ball's wear and overall cost per ball when only being able to use 1 ball max per round due to excessive poor wear. I've discouraged quite a few friends and I'm sure reviewers from purchasing this particular ball.. that said, I absolutely LOVE the higher end Bridgestone line. Specifically the Tour B XS and have encouraged many others to look into them. All of that said, I wouldn't have undone any of the testing opportunities. Good, bad, indifferent, it's an experience that we're extremely fortunate to be a part of! Thanks MGS and keep up ALL of the great work!

No I don't mean teeing off from the green.. although that would be interesting wouldn't it? I'm talking about subtracting yardage from the green to determine how you play from the tee. Doe anybody use this strategy? I've just started and it seems to be helping my game. Any tips, advice, success stories, etc would be greatly appreciated. My goal in 2020 is to shoot at par. I broke the 80 barrier and have been shooting fairly consistently in the high to mid 70's. I've worked quite a bit on my driver and putting consistency which has helped. At the moment I feel that my biggest area for improvement is my approach. With a fairly consistent and lengthy drive, I've found the 3/4 60* shots aren't all that consistent. I'm trying to be more conscious about leaving myself a full shot to the green. Whether it be 8, 9, P, or a wedge and I'm starting to see some good results. I'm trying to create some rules to help my decision making. Thanks all!

Didn't see that one. Just goes to show the adage is true... on any given week.

I would still ask if you had the data to back what you’re writing - Golf is a funny game, it may seem like you are more accurate from 140 than from 80 because your expectation is so much greater from 80. It could be though that your proximity to the hole is in fact better at 80. Having a shot tracking system of some sort will help make your practice and course strategy better. It will answer the questions that you are asking. For example if you are hitting 80 percent of your fairways at 290 yards and shooting in the high 70’s you have a significant flaw somewhere else. The general rule is the closer you can safely hit it to your target the lower the score you will shoot. If that’s not happening you are either taking too many penalties (including hitting it in the trees or fescue) or your wedge game needs work, Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

It doesn’t matter what’s stamped on the bottom. That’s an arbitrary number put on there by a manufacture. Sgi clubs like pxg xf, epic star, g410 and such all have different lofts so which one is the standard. in reality we are all playing jacked lofts because they have been getting stronger for decades. The 46* pw is a jacked pw. with all that said I’m out. It’s a topic that has been hashed out and beaten to death on the internet for years and a topic that just won’t go away. Play what you like, don’t buy/play what you don’t, don’t knock what somebody else plays that’s enjoying the game with the clubs in their bag even if there is a perceived gapping issue. Heck there’s pros with large gaps in wedges are they wrong for that.

The weekend warrior doesn’t care about any of the stuff the educated golfer/internet golfer does. The gapping, lofts, number on the bottom are irrelevant to them. The make up there bag based on what they think a set should be. If they think they need more wedges they buy them and if they think they need a hybrid or wood they will buy it. On Saturday I played with an older guy that I was paired up with last year at the same course. He’s a team titleist member, Scotty Cameron fan and had pxg xf Gen2 irons he was fitted for. Mizuno hybrid and woods. Still has those clubs at home, but this year he was fit for epic star irons, epic flash driver still had Mizuno hybrid and wood in the bag. Set makeup was exactly the same as last year just different names. Lofts iirc on the epic star are 3-4* stronger than the pxg. He mentioned he liked the Callaway’s because they went further. Never once said he knew or cared about the loft in them that’s why he knew his 6i went further with this set. He doesn’t play much and practices even less. At 74 his goal is to still break 100 and on the course we played even from the second tees its a tough course. He shot 97, had a great time on the course despite not really knowing any of the guys he was paired up with. Did Callaway do him a disservice? I play periodically with a group of guys that I’ve known for 25 years and have been playing with for 23 of those years. They play 3x/week and don’t practice. They don’t buy new clubs that often but when they do they don’t get fit and it’s usually based on brands they like or maybe a review from golf digest or what pros are playing. The only thing they care about is does the club make it easier to hit than what they currently have and does it go at least as far. If consumers felt like companies were doing a disservice to them don’t you think they would stop buying the product this causing the companies to adjust their strategy and products?

I haven’t had time to write up a good review, but my experience mirrors that of Mr. Stroker’s. The Boston location is really cool and Nick was awesome. Got fit into a different shaft than I expected, but the wedge and driver fit was great. Glad to see in only giving up about 10 yards with my G30 right now and my AP2s are right on spec still. More to come! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont know if anyone bought them because of me but I few people did ask my about the Tommy Armour Atomics and I gave them a fair, honest opinion of them. If it caused people to try them out themselves, like them and buy a set for themselves, cool. IMO, TA is a highly underrated brand that more people should give a serous look. I wouldnt say that makes me an influencer, at least not in the way that I view an influencer. To me, an influencer is someone who makes people want to buy something because they use it and because people want to be like that person. I would hope that no one would buy something that I tested just because of what I said about it or because I was using it but I do hope that it would cause them to give it a serious look for themselves and see if they like it. If anything, I would say how harsh I was on the Atomics would make people NOT want to buy them. LOL

Yes, I’ve had several Fittings from different people stretched out over maybe dozen + years. Most results were 2’ up one time 3’ up. This time he also came up with 2’ with the board. I could tell he didn’t like it that’s when he asked me if we could experiment which I jumped at. He marked a line on a ball and I hit with the 2’ up, line was near toe, again hit with 1’ flat mark moved towards center of face, 2’ flat mark was near center of face an felt great. The G410 irons will be 2’ flat and the experiment begins.

Several people know I had the opportunity to test the Epic Flash for MGS. Many have seen my results with the driver and were very impressed. Unfortunately, none of these people spend that kind of money on golf, so I know none of them have even thought much about purchasing it. I tried to give the most honest review possible, but in doing so, I also wanted to make sure people could get a good understanding of my game through my review and updates. I feel like so many golfers are in my handicap range, and I hope that my results with the Epic Flash really speak volumes about what it can do not only for low-cappers like @THEZIPR23, but also for mid-high handicappers like myself. It's also why I spend so much time on my "How'd you play?" and "What did you practice/work on today?" posts. Like @jlukes said, I want everyone to see the whole process, not just a one-off capture of how I hit a club at a point-in-time. I certainly rely on other's opinions on this board. We have so many knowledgeable members here, and through reading all of the posts I feel like I even have a basic understanding of many of our golf abilities/games. I was persuaded to try Snell because of the ball test, but switched to the MTB-X after reading some of the feedback on the forums. I absolutely love that ball, and I would never have tried Snell without MGS or the MTB-X specifically without other people's experiences posted on here.

The bold part is one thing almost every tester that I've worked with or read their reviews does a very good job on. Those of you who have tested--as you have--know very well part of our instructions in the very beginning of the template we send out is to say to be honest, if it works how it was advertised or touted by the OEM say so, if you see it not doing so for you...by all means say that as well. I say the member here do that to a level that is not seen anywhere else.

Why is there no length standards, flex standards, headweight standards, shoe size standard, etc. You can say they lofts are jacked and no one can really provide a good reason why. Like you said, clubs launch higher and travel farther. Marketing is all about distance; most players won't buy clubs that go 10 yards less than their current clubs. Ultimately the number on the bottom of the club is and has always been meaningless; find the clubs that allow you to hit the ball a specific distance. If that is labelled 7, 33*, A, 150 yrd, or something else, does it really matter?

I have a nice used set of Wilson FG Tour 100s. Standard length and lie. KBS Tour stiff shafts with Winn Dri-tac standard grips. 4-PW $235 shipped CONUS only. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I’m in the middle of a round in Thousand Oaks, California. It’s right at an hour and 45 minutes to play FIVE HOLES! Dude. PICK. IT. UP! I’d never play golf if I lived here. What an absolute joke! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Wisconsin.... [emoji15]

73 today Driver still excellent- putter very good with 31 putts (best for a long time) and short game was probably 8 out of 10. The course was soaking- every tee shot and green shot plugged, very heavy underfoot and had to chip out of mud a few times- hate that but we've had all of Oct rainfall in the first 2 weeks so it has nowhere to go. Overall very pleased with my game. Typical as thats the season over now

Yup, but man was that ever a nail biter.

But the lofts is what "everyone" on the other side of the discussion is complaining about "the new 7 irons are 28 degrees, that's a 5 iron" I agree with the more distance the better for again 98% of us golfers, the other 2% don't need or are good enough to adjust. While the average golfer will not be helped as you said, I can honestly say as an employee of a club who goes out and plays with a lot of regular players who are just out for fun, they don't put much thinking into their club decisions or wonder now that this 100 yard shot that may be between their PW and GW if they even know that, they don't care they'll just grab either one and hope to come within 10 yards of the green in any direction. Anyway, it's a good fun discussion, that those of us who believe the tech is real and that there is actual R&D reasons for the stronger lofts will not waiver, and those who think it's all just done for marketing won't be convinced. HA...I told someone last night this "debate" has become the new "blades vs CB" discussion.

The dissenters will say that with the stronger lofts you often end up with a 43* PW as a result and the next club up is likely a GW at 50 or 52. So they say the 7 to 8 degree difference will leave them a distance gap between those two clubs instead of the 4 to 5 degrees that everyone seems to think is gospel. The problem with that thinking...IMO only, is we have established we are talking about the average weekend casual golfer who doesn't really get into fitting and all the specs That player will not notice or care about a 2 degree gap difference between his older clubs and his newer ones. It's all a bunch of commotion about something that will at most affect 1% to 2% of the players, and those players are already educated enough to know they can do things to offset that difference if it's noticeable to them.

I hope that my reviews help people make an educated purchase. We all like different looks of clubs and they will play different for everyone. As a tester all I can do is tell you how the club played for me to the best of my ability. There are so many great reviews by this members of this community, we all help the consumer make a better educated decision.

Group 4 is guys like me.... I play tour quality balls that I buy from Lost Golf Balls for a fraction of the cost of new ones.... and any I find on the course. I'm not terribly concerned that they aren't shiny new, or that they have logos on them. It doesn't really matter after you've hit them a few times.... they all look used...lol. I just can't see the sense in paying upwards of $50 for a dozen golf balls that at least half of which I will lose after 3 rounds. I will say that there is definitely a difference in golf balls.... and I think anyone that hits the ball decently and can get around a golf course fairly well can/would/will benefit from a urethane covered ball.

Yep. My course hosts at least 15 - 20 large scrambles, and quite a few smaller scrambles during the season. There is never a lack of MOJO's laying every where...lol.

The nice part is that the experiment will cost a fraction of what others would have set you back. check out BB&FCo for custom ferrules as well!

Clearly, @CarlH is more confident with 2 footers than you are!!

Well, this is an interesting thread! I believe we have had this discussion before, and MGS has also talked about it in the blog, but I'm too tired to look it up. I have a few comments. I agree with @RickyBobby_PR that the average golfer doesn't care about the lofts being jacked. Yes, it potentially creates gaps for the wedge game, and OEMs benefit by selling more wedges... but only to those golfers that care and get fit. I disagree with @Middler that most players wouldn’t have fallen for the loft jacking if they cared. The players that benefit from the design features of GI or SGI irons that have stronger lofts than previous years' clubs will most likely play better golf with them. I am one of them. I know they are jacked. Do I care? Not really, but why wouldn't I want to hit my 9i just as far as my previous set's 7i with a higher trajectory. Maybe if I had a 110 mph swing speed and I could launch my old 7i as high as a tour player, I would stick with traditional lofts, but I don't. The tech in the new irons gives me the launch angle I desire so I can potentially hit more greens and have a chance that the ball will stop. Does that mean I have to have more wedges? Not really. Some players want nice 4º differences between clubs. I don't. I don't carry a GW, and I never hit full shots with my SW or LW. My short game is one of my strengths. I've played blades and I've played cavity backs, and now I play SGI irons because they suit my game better now. I don't care what the number is, just as long as I can make the shot. I'm not sure what the hate is for jacked lofts. You can get a 7i in many different lofts from every manufacturer. Play the set that fits your game and makes you happy. Full disclosure: I have an appointment at True Spec for my free fitting next week. I wonder what the fitter will say??

That’s a great practice routine. I prefer 12-18 inches behind hole. Just the engineering background leaching out. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I guess we’ll know a lot more in the next few weeks, on course and the LM. Waiting patiently for delivery [emoji106] Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Lie boards are generally called that for a reason

If you’re looking to shoot par you should check your stats to see if reality matches perception. What is your actual proximity to the hole with your 60 vs your 8 iron? Are you as consistent and accurate with the club that leaves you 140 as the driver that leaves you 80? I know that I’ve wasted plenty of shots in my life because I thought something that turned out to be wrong. Yes in answer to your original question. I’ve often played a hole backwards in my mind. Good luck! Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Putter distance control at various distances. Focus was to control speed to end up no more than 2 feet behind the target.

I keep adding the TS-1 heads to my golfworks shopping cart and looking at it. I need the courage to order.

… The ideal swing is a combination of Power and Speed. Rory Mcllory is a perfect example. A big shoulder turn with fast hips create an unwinding of Power culminating with his arms and hands moving very fast creating Speed. And pound for pound I am not sure anyone hits it farther or as accurately. But Rory is very unique and one of the best players ever to play this game and his swing cannot be copied by most, if not all amateurs. Ok, that out of the way I want to concentrate on how you can maximize your ability and most of you will be surprised to know, it isn’t with Power. … I played with a guy today that turned his trunk, chest and shoulders so violently, his arms and hands could never catch up. He explained to me he had a lesson and his instructor was a Body Oriented teacher and believed the best way to swing was not with your arms and hands but with the body. Turn away and turn back thru the ball as quickly as possible with the arms and hands along for the ride. While that may work for a few, I have never liked that thinking and here is why. You can hit a golf ball effectively just using Speed. You cannot hit the ball effectively just using Power. Look at an Iron Byron hitting machine. There is a hinging duplicating the hinging of the club from the hands to the head creating Speed. There is no turning of the machine to create Power. Most of you have seen golfers that have lost the use of their legs, strapped to a golf cart and only using their arms and hands to hit the golf ball and they can hit it surprisingly far. One of my favorite drills to illustrate this was having a student stand with their feet together, legs locked and using no hip turn they would cock the club and uncock thru impact. Start slowly and keep swinging faster until you feel that you are losing control. I had more than a few students hit the ball farther this way than they did with their full swing!!! … Of course the ideal swing is a combination of Power and Speed. The body supplies the Power, but that comes from a slow build from the ground up and if you apply too much Power with your hips or chest or shoulders, you will always struggle with the kinetic chain ending with your club head losing instead of gaining Speed. I would always rather see more Speed and less Power, because most cannot apply Power correctly. So next time you are at the range or warming up before your round, try my feet together drill and you might be surprised at how far you can hit the ball just using your arms and hands if you hinge and unhinge thru impact. … For most am’s, using your body less than you are using now will result in increased distance and accuracy. Men especially use their chest and shoulders for power in many different ways their entire lives, so it is natural to attempt to use them in the golf swing. But as we all know, much of golf is really unnatural, or at least seems that way. Hit down to make the ball go up being a perfect example, something some players never accomplish. So unfortunately many over use their trunk and struggle with the golf swing. My suggestion is get Speed right before attempting to add Power. Just focus on the hinging and unhinging of the club picturing Iron Byron, then slowly start adding more and more hip and shoulder rotation with the same hinging and unhinging of the club thru impact. I can’t tell you how many swings improved dramatically when the body began playing a complementary role, not the main role in hitting a golf ball. I hope this helps some of you!

I’ve got a couple of guys waiting to see how the Ping G410 irons will work for me. They are interested in my switch from Regular to Senior shafts in these G410’s. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Glad I found this, I scheduled a fitting for 10/30 in Chicago (3.5 hrs away) and hopefully it goes well. Taking a day off work and making a full day of it. Added a putter fitting as well may stop and test drive a Tesla since there is a store next door. Ill post my experience on the write up GolfSpy Stroker did. Hope my experience is close to his.

Yes they use a mechanic, just like I use myself as a mechanic for my clubs. But there are fundamental things that everyone expects from a car that are provided by manufacturers. When I hit a PW and go down to a GW on next shot I should be able to expect that the gap is manageable. This was the case for countless years and now it is not. I just bought a new TV, I expect the picture out of the box to look good to the average person. I was able to adjust the settings to my preferences, something that a lot of people will not do. Same should be applied to golf.

The only thing I've tested out & reviewed have been balls. And for the most part, no one has ever asked me much about them. For really no other reason is that they never noticed, nor cared or more than likely are just happy with their ball. And make no mistake, I'm no magician with the ball either. "Hey wow, you spun that ball all the way off the green! What ball are you playing?" Yeah none of that EVER happens. More likely .... "Hey, you sliced that ball off the map. What ball are you playing? Just so I know not to buy it." So yeah, maybe that could be a big influence as to why I'm not much of an influencer.

I loved being a tester and hoped to be an "influencer" but very doubtful i was. I would love to test out a driver or some balls in the future or maybe a wedge. The process of being a tester is very cool. It gets you to think of equipment in a different manner.

I have been very forunate since joinng MGS. With being said I let most people try my club review clubs and have give out sleeves of balls to atrangers. Has anyone bought a product solely because of me, I do not know. I do know that several people have told me they love this or that and will be looking at a club, brand or ball in the future. Played with two guys a couple of weeks ago and 1 asked to try my Cobra F8+ driver. He was playing a Titleist not sure which one. But he hit them both and love the Cobra. Get to the fairway and his two balls were 2 feet from each other and he was adamant he's going to look into a new driver. Mind you he was fit for his and not mine.. So I do think we influence people we interact with.. Sent from my SM-G900V using MyGolfSpy mobile app

Not directly, but I'm guessing most if not all of the MGS Tester Reviews influence the golfing community at large one way or another. For me personally, that's how I found the forum. I was researching new irons (PE2 replacement) and found some Hit Squad and Official Tester Reviews. Not only were they well written, but I found them more real and believable. After joining the forum and starting some dialogue with our members, my search for new irons suddenly had a new element/dimension that wasn't there simply looking at OEM product reviews and YT videos... fellow golfers having recent experiences going through the same equipment decisions. So while I may never know for certain, I do suspect there are a few more G410 drivers and G410 irons being bagged around the world as a result of my reviews. Man, that's a lot of weight and responsibility to be lugging around .

My only issue with it is some manufacturers don’t make corresponding wedges. I personally would like to see more set GW’s. It is a full shot club for most everyone, yet we have to try and match a specialty wedge in there. There are a lot of sets with GW’s for sure... but a few in my preferred iron category lacks. That 50°/51° square soled wedge. Speaking in my own preferences of course. I’d love to see a Blueprint GW... Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Is the bold really a thing to you? I play with a couple guys who will hit a 7 iron from 170 and I'll hit a 7 or 9 w. And yet I generally score 5-8 shots better than them every round. You touched on the reasons for stronger--not jacked---lofts yourself. And Cnosil as usual summed it all up very well. My 2019 SUV gets 5 to 8 more MPG than my 2010 one did. I guess I have a jacked fuel tank

I think you have two distinct groups of golfers and a very small third group in regards to golf balls and equipment. Group 1 is budget conscious, always looking for a deal and will buy the lowest priced equipment they can find, regardless of performance. They probably play a multitude of 2-piece golf balls or maybe some recycled golf balls and have up to 6 different brands of clubs in their bag...not because they tested them out and are brand agnostic, it's because that particular equipment was the better deal. There's nothing wrong with being budget conscious...they'll probably never buy a new dozen of Pro V1s because they can find a cheaper ball that may or may not perform the way they want to. Group 2 pays top dollar because price = performance. Also, nothing wrong with this but they probably pass up some quality equipment simply because it wasn't priced as high as other equipment. Yes, this is prevalent in the golfing industry, especially with the ball market. I think it was srixon that came in $10 less than the Pro V1 when they initially launched their Z Star line and they had a hard time selling it simply because golfers equated the cheaper price to substandard performance. These folks won't buy a $25/dozen ball that performs similarly to a Pro V1 because of the price. Group 3 is in between. Golf ball manufacturers are marketing to either group 1 or group 2 which probably make up 85-90% of the golfers in this country.

... Titleist isn't going to sabotage their ProV1 with a $22 soft ball that performs "similar". There may be a market for high index players with low club head speed that find the two balls play "similar" for their style of play but I have been playing and reviewing clubs and balls for over 20 years and I have never played a ball that was not a Tour Level urethane covered ball that could play similar to any OEM's top of the line ball, especially the ProV1. A single digit or Tour player may prefer a Bridgestone, Srixon or Taylor Made premium urethane ball over a ProV1 but none of them are hitting an E6, Q Star or Project (S) and I am 99.99% sure that would include the TruFeel.