Popular Post caeye0710 Posted August 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2021 First time MGS poster here after spending years at another forum site, also a "Certified Club Junkie" I was just going some research on the MG3 being released early next month. IMO, what a sharp looking wedge! I've admittedly been a Vokey guy my entire life, so doubt I'll be making a move considering my SM8's are waiting for their first round (just swapped new ones in after a year with my first set of SM8). While looking at the MSRP for the new MG3 ($179 for stock options), it got me thinking: Are OEM's going completely off the rails with prices on new equipment? I don't remember which model it was, but I remember that I could walk in to a shop and get three new wedges for $327 plus tax ($109 MSRP). It's gotten to the point where buying three new TM wedges would be $578 after tax here in NC (NEARLY $600!). Let me add to that by saying: I understand. Over time, costs related to materials and shipping increase. One can argue that even production costs increase, although as a Process Improvement Consultant in the Manufacturing industry for close to a decade, I don't know if that rings true as much as we think it does due to the automation process nowadays (although I'll admit there has to be some merit to it). Doesn't mean I'm an expert in the Behind-The-Scenes production of golf equipment, but a lot of my clients have remained stagnant in their production process over the years due to robotics and automation processes, so I would think it would ring somewhat true to golf equipment OEMs. Back to the topic: Are we getting to a point where it's going to eventually be too expensive to get the latest and greatest equipment? In 2004, Drivers hit a $500 MSRP for the first time (TM R7, Titleist 905 Series, etc.). The R7 was the first driver to be listed at $500 (I think) and I recall people throwing a fit. Titleist quickly followed suit on the 905 series, although I specifically remember our Titleist rep at my club back then mentioned that the initial MSRP was going to be $409 until TM came to market and announced the R7 at a higher price point. Nowadays, $550+ is the norm. Over 17 years that difference doesn't add up to much, but what happens in another 15 years? Stock drivers listed at $800? Stock FW's at $500? Iron sets off the rack at $2,000? Wedges at $200 a piece? Putters (too many variables here honestly, but let's say $400 average) That means if you want to revamp an entire bag, you'll be dropping somewhere in the neighborhood of $4,300 if you stick to stock options and don't get fitted for upgraded shafts and specs. Maybe I'm just completely off base here and my opinion is wrong, but I'd be curious to here what some of you folks think. Feel free to roast me if I sound like an idiot cnosil, GolfSpy_SHARK, BostonSal and 8 others 11 Quote TSi3 8* - Motore F1 6x TSi3 15* - AD DI 7x Ping G425 19* - Tour 65 Stiff T100s 4-AW - Oban CT 100 Stiff P7TW 4-PW - Oban CT 100 Stiff Vokey SM8 50, 54, 58 - Oban CT 115 Swag Handsome One 34” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM01 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 Msrp has usually been high. Titleist as an example would list their iron sets at $210/club but map would be significantly less. As for production there may be aspects of the manufacturing of the club that’s automated or mass produced without human intervention but thinks like shafts are all hand rolled and hand painted in one fashion ir another. The assembly of the club is still done by hand and many of the brands assemble in the US so labor costs are going to be higher for that. The market will determine if they are shooting themsleves in the foot but based on recent sales $1299 for a 7piecs set of irons, $150+ for wedges and $500+ for driver isn’t an issue. caeye0710 and GolfSpy_SHARK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bens197 Posted August 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2021 I struggle with the concept that golf equipment should be immune from inflation, supply and overall macroeconomic policy. Google any simple CPI inflation calculator and type in the price of a PING TiSi driver in January 2000. It was $399, I bought one. Today that $399 would be $645.31. A PING G425 driver from any big box is $499. Sounds like we're doing OK. Nolan220, THEZIPR23, DiscipleofPenick and 11 others 14 Quote PING G400 LST Mitsubishi Tensei White 60X TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100 L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5* Srixon Z-Star XV Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges… https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/ Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChitownM2 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 I would say that prices are definitely climbing faster than inflation and towards an unsustainable point down the line. That Ping driver may have cost $400 in 2000, but that was the exception not the rule. I remember shopping for clubs back then and most drivers were $300 and you could pick up "last year's" model for $200 which is what I did. Vokey wedges might have been $110 as well but cleveland and callaway were cheaper. I remember picking up "zip groove" wedges for like $90 each. The OEM's have gotten much better on their inventory control to the point where they now have shortages of clubs rather than a bunch of extras being discounted as happened in the past which further contributes to the price hikes. It's hard to walk into a golf store and find a Mavrik driver or a TS2 hybrid because they are either long gone or only sold at a few discount golf websites so you can't actually hit them before buying. I'm hoping that once this Covid surge passes we will see prices flatten out for a good long period but I'm not holding my breath. That doesn't seem to be the way any industry operates anymore. Having a solid profitable business with repeat customers, etc is no longer acceptable. Every business has to demonstrate "growth" and increased revenue which means either charging more money or trying to steal someone else's market share. IMO, both of these tend to lead to more spending on marketing and hype generation than any actual improvement in equipment. Kansas King, GolfSpy_SHARK, B_R_A_D_Y and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 Clubs stayed the same price for a long time, and, as @bens197mentions, comparatively they were higher priced years ago compared to inflation/dollar value. The cost of everything will always go-up, so as long as the cost of clubs don’t rise as fast as college tuition has, I’m good. One thing that has crossed my mind is that with so many more people in the game right now OEMs are going to increase prices a bit to try and balance the losses of recent years. It is what it is, and maybe more folks end-up waiting to buy until what’s “new” is marked-down. JohnSmalls, MattF, bens197 and 4 others 7 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caeye0710 Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, PMookie said: Clubs stayed the same price for a long time, and, as @bens197mentions, comparatively they were higher priced years ago compared to inflation/dollar value. The cost of everything will always go-up, so as long as the cost clubs don’t rise as fast as college tuition has, we should be good! @bens197 definitely made a ton of good points. I also didn't mean for my post to make it sound like I was insinuating that golf shouldn't be subject to inflation. The point of my story is at that some point, it's gotta get to where it's too crazy, right? We might be all be 95 years old and barely reminiscing on the days of when we could actually go to the bathroom on our own, much less play golf and complain about the price of a new gap wedge. Speaking of college tuition, my first kid will be going into her freshman year in 15 years, so I doubt I'll be buying many golf clubs at that time anyways. According to Vanguard and some other reports, 4 years of in-state school is forecasted to cost $50,000 per year by 2034. Anyone know of a place where I can donate a kidney? Headhammer, PMookie, bens197 and 4 others 1 6 Quote TSi3 8* - Motore F1 6x TSi3 15* - AD DI 7x Ping G425 19* - Tour 65 Stiff T100s 4-AW - Oban CT 100 Stiff P7TW 4-PW - Oban CT 100 Stiff Vokey SM8 50, 54, 58 - Oban CT 115 Swag Handsome One 34” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, caeye0710 said: @bens197 definitely made a ton of good points. I also didn't mean for my post to make it sound like I was insinuating that golf shouldn't be subject to inflation. The point of my story is at that some point, it's gotta get to where it's too crazy, right? We might be all be 95 years old and barely reminiscing on the days of when we could actually go to the bathroom on our own, much less play golf and complain about the price of a new gap wedge. Speaking of college tuition, my first kid will be going into her freshman year in 15 years, so I doubt I'll be buying many golf clubs at that time anyways. According to Vanguard and some other reports, 4 years of in-state school is forecasted to cost $50,000 per year by 2034. Anyone know of a place where I can donate a kidney? FYI, my youngest is 10, and a financial guy told me to expect in-state tuition at LSU to be around $60,000 a year in 8 years. Another discussion for another day, in another thread….. cnosil, GolfSpy_SHARK, TR1PTIK and 3 others 4 2 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtopherb Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 Materials costs are through the roof everywhere. If you can even *get* the materials in a timely manner. Golf OEMs are no different. Tarheelvolvo, bens197, TR1PTIK and 1 other 4 Quote In my Big Max hybrid bag: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex ST-Z 15* Kai'li Blue R Flex ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex Launcher 5h D200 6i-GW CBX 54* & 58* Huntington Beach #10 Tour S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens197 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 2 hours ago, russtopherb said: Materials costs are through the roof everywhere. If you can even *get* the materials in a timely manner. Golf OEMs are no different. I was thinking about mentioning this but in a little different context...hopefully I don't screw this up... Golf equipment (metals) on a higher tier require specific metals. 304, 17-4 and 431 Stainless, 6-4 titanium...point being, these are specific density metals, not mist-mash repurposed metals from your local melt-em-down scrap yard. The specific density metals command a higher price...this is a particular reason why some ordinary metals haven't increased in cost, making golf clubs appear as if they cost more than other common purchases. I think I got it...someone feel free to correct it if need be... BIG STU, GolfSpy_SHARK, Rickp and 1 other 4 Quote PING G400 LST Mitsubishi Tensei White 60X TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100 L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5* Srixon Z-Star XV Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges… https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/ Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens197 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 And just to add to that...when PING was casting their irons in their Phoenix foundry, the metal sampling was incredible to witness. The attention to detail for each batch of steel raw material would make the most obsessive compulsive person blush. Tarheelvolvo, TR1PTIK, GolfSpy_SHARK and 1 other 4 Quote PING G400 LST Mitsubishi Tensei White 60X TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100 L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5* Srixon Z-Star XV Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges… https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/ Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChitownM2 Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Had to come back to this thread when I got an email from MGS this morning announcing Callaway's new $400 hybrid!!!!! Here I was thinking that $270 hybrids to replace $165 (high end) irons were ridiculous. This hybrid is almost as expensive as Cobra's driver! GolfSpy_SHARK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheelvolvo Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said: Had to come back to this thread when I got an email from MGS this morning announcing Callaway's new $400 hybrid!!!!! Here I was thinking that $270 hybrids to replace $165 (high end) irons were ridiculous. This hybrid is almost as expensive as Cobra's driver! Lots of good comments on this thread! One thing that I didn't see mentioned is the increased demand for golf equipment. If demand is there, OEM's will charge what they can to maximize profits...like $400 for a hybrid. Throw in the supply shortages and we have the classic economics 101 model. Do I think that production costs have gone up? Probably not, as @caeye0710noted the increase in automation will keep production costs relatively flat YoY, so then you have materials costs, which have gone up for the same supply/demand reasons. Other costs you guys didn't mention would be R&D costs that will increase since you need qualified employees to design, test, and build the new clubs and they need a pay increase each year to keep with inflation. And then lastly you have the marketing budget, which, coming from a guy in marketing for a large corp, doesn't go down over time, haha! Those ad spots get more and more expensive every year! With all of that said, do I think it's appropriate to pay $400 for a hybrid? Heck no! The last piece of "new" equipment I purchased was a prior gen G410, right before the G425 came out. Unless the hybrid guarantees I hit it 225+ and it's always in the fairway, I'll pass and get last gen model if I need a new one, but as the saying goes - a fool and his money are soon parted GolfSpy_SHARK and russtopherb 2 Quote In my Hoofer: G410 LST 10.5* - Kai'Li White 60 X-flex VRS Covert 3W 15* - Kuro Kage 65 S-flex T200 4-GW, DG X100 Tour Issue - Tester Glide 2.0 Stealth 54.12 SS & 58.10 SS Zing 2 LW - 60* Anser 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shankster Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 The demand can go away any time now. Pretty soon there won’t be enough room on golf courses. They are slow as it is. The game grew… that’s what everyone wanted right? Everyone must like slow play. GolfSpy_SHARK and Tarheelvolvo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_SHARK Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 So much good stuff here. I’ll add my 2 cents: 1) as many have said supply and demand. It’s a beautiful thing. Here I am waiting to do an addition as we speak because of prices. 2) for me wedges are a tough pill to swallow at 200 because now that I’m playing more they need to be replaced but is what it is. But think about all the R&D research year in year out, gotta pay that premium at some point 3) while I would never spend $4300 in a year I can see myself spending $1000 a year! Tarheelvolvo and caeye0710 2 Quote Check out my reviews: G710 Irons Official Review I MC Shaft & V Series Putter Official Review 2022 Forged Tec's Official Review I Nitron Push Cart Official Review WITB: Weapons of grass destruction (link to WITB) Traverse is filled with all this shiny metal and tracked by RadSpeed 8* - MotoreX F1 6X SIM 3W - Project X HZRDUS Green U505 Driving Iron 17* - Project X HZRDUS Black SpeedZone 4H - Project X HZRDUS Black 2022 King Forged Tec's 4-PW - KBS $ Tape 130 48 (SM8), 52 & 60 (SM7) - Nippon Modus 125 S ER2VI PROV1X #19 Are you a veteran? Check out the Veterans Golf Association (VGA) Thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhammer Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 10:04 AM, RickyBobby_PR said: The assembly of the club is still done by hand and many of the brands assemble in the US so labor costs are going to be higher for that. Is this true? The last couple clubs I've purchased have all said "Assembled in Mexico". Quote Driver: Speed Zone 9* HZRDUS Smoke Yellow Shaft 3 Wood: King Speedzone 13.5* HZRDUS Smoke Black Shaft 2 & 3 Hybrids: Speedzone Recoil 480 ESX Shaft Irons: Speedzone 5-GW Recoil 460 ESX Shafts Wedges: PM Grind 54* & 58* Putter: Dual Force Rossi II Ball: Whatever I find in the woods HCP:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NM01 Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Headhammer said: Is this true? The last couple clubs I've purchased have all said "Assembled in Mexico". It depends on the brand. Callaway uses mexico, cali and iirc Texas. Several brands assemble in the US like Srixon, ping, pxg off the top of my head. Ping had job advertisement for their build team in Arizona just a few weeks back RollingGreens, Headhammer and cnosil 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProfessor Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 I think fairway woods are still somewhat reasonable, hybrids are borderline, drivers and wedges have gotten insane to me, especially if you want an upgraded shaft in the driver. I think I got a pretty fair price for my MP-20s, but it seems like they are cutting off custom orders soon after price drops. Hopefully it levels off for a while. One good thing is wood shafts are largely interchangeable if you stick with the same OEM, so you can buy off the rack after price drops as an option. Quote 917 D3 9.5* Kiyoshi Black 65-05 917 F3 15* VA Drago 75-X 818 H2 19* Ventus Black 10-TX MP-20 MB 3-9 PX 6.5, T20 47* PX 6.5 SM7 54-10S/60-08M PX 6.5/6.0 Scotty Cameron Special Select Squareback 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titleist87 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) Using the inflation calculator, my 1987 $300 set of 3-PW Titleist Tour Model irons would be $720 today. Today, a comparable set of 3-PW Titleist 620MB is $1400. Edited August 20, 2021 by Titleist87 Headhammer 1 Quote Fly Z+ UST Proforce V2 Black Golfsmith Jet Stream 3W UST Proforce V2 915 H3 Diamana Red 915 H4 Diamana Red Apex Edge Pro UST Recoil Dart Vokey SM6 50F/54S/58S Aerotech SteelFiber Huntington Beach 11S Pro V1 Bag Boy Chiller Bag Boy Quad XL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDTVMAN Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 All OEM's. from all facets of industries, use MSRP to control their sales and advertising they allow. It is legal to tell a re-seller that if you advertise for less than, for example, $499, we'll drop you, or if we pay coop advertising, we won't pay our share. Courts have ruled in favor of the manufacturers. Quote Certified Club Fitter. Ping G425 Max Driver 10.5° w/Fujikura Ventus TR Ping G425 Max 5-7-9 Fairway Woods w/Ping Alta CB Ping G425 Irons 5-U w/Ping Alta CB (Power-Spec Lofts) Ping 4.0 Eye2 Glide Wedges 54°-58° w/Recoil SmacWrap Ping Redwood ZB Putter w/PP58 PING Pioneer Cart Bag Lamkin Sonar+ Wrap Mid-Size Grips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge95 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 I understand that most things are market controlled, but the rising prices reminds me of when I was younger. Back then golf was a rich mans sport. I’m starting to see the signs of that coming back. Golf wants to keep expanding and they want everyone to be able to play. That has always been the problem, it was too expensive for the average person to play. You will always have upper middle class and the rich playing, but if they want the average person to take up golf and play and grow the game, price will always be a concern. There isn’t as much lower end equipment now and large companies buy up smaller ones and stop producing. Adams, northwestern etc are some. I’m seeing courses closing in my area, private courses as well, because their aren’t enough people out there willing to ponie up the money. Golf courses and manufacturers need to be conscious of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 87 Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 10:59 AM, caeye0710 said: First time MGS poster here after spending years at another forum site, also a "Certified Club Junkie" I was just going some research on the MG3 being released early next month. IMO, what a sharp looking wedge! I've admittedly been a Vokey guy my entire life, so doubt I'll be making a move considering my SM8's are waiting for their first round (just swapped new ones in after a year with my first set of SM8). While looking at the MSRP for the new MG3 ($179 for stock options), it got me thinking: Are OEM's going completely off the rails with prices on new equipment? I don't remember which model it was, but I remember that I could walk in to a shop and get three new wedges for $327 plus tax ($109 MSRP). It's gotten to the point where buying three new TM wedges would be $578 after tax here in NC (NEARLY $600!). Let me add to that by saying: I understand. Over time, costs related to materials and shipping increase. One can argue that even production costs increase, although as a Process Improvement Consultant in the Manufacturing industry for close to a decade, I don't know if that rings true as much as we think it does due to the automation process nowadays (although I'll admit there has to be some merit to it). Doesn't mean I'm an expert in the Behind-The-Scenes production of golf equipment, but a lot of my clients have remained stagnant in their production process over the years due to robotics and automation processes, so I would think it would ring somewhat true to golf equipment OEMs. Back to the topic: Are we getting to a point where it's going to eventually be too expensive to get the latest and greatest equipment? In 2004, Drivers hit a $500 MSRP for the first time (TM R7, Titleist 905 Series, etc.). The R7 was the first driver to be listed at $500 (I think) and I recall people throwing a fit. Titleist quickly followed suit on the 905 series, although I specifically remember our Titleist rep at my club back then mentioned that the initial MSRP was going to be $409 until TM came to market and announced the R7 at a higher price point. Nowadays, $550+ is the norm. Over 17 years that difference doesn't add up to much, but what happens in another 15 years? Stock drivers listed at $800? Stock FW's at $500? Iron sets off the rack at $2,000? Wedges at $200 a piece? Putters (too many variables here honestly, but let's say $400 average) That means if you want to revamp an entire bag, you'll be dropping somewhere in the neighborhood of $4,300 if you stick to stock options and don't get fitted for upgraded shafts and specs. Maybe I'm just completely off base here and my opinion is wrong, but I'd be curious to here what some of you folks think. Feel free to roast me if I sound like an idiot I think you're spot on. If you compare the price increases in golf equipment with that of other products over the last few years, I suggest that the increase in prices are out of wacky with the increase of manufacturing cost. But then again there's lots of BS advertising to convince us that a new club can fix everything. All the while we know that in general handicaps have not decreased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patt82mp Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) BLUF: I think the Big OEM's bank on brand loyalty with a 6 month to 1 yr time frame and after that 1 yr have NO CHOICE but to drop prices and dont get much profit at that point. But it's coming back or going to come back to bite them. This might get long winded but bare with me. I cant help but think of the big pharma companies as an example. Everyone complains about high prescription drug prices. But consider the market and what it takes to create the products. $10 a pill might seem steep, but what did it cost to research and develop it $400 million and 5 yrs? And the market for a specific drug is going to be limited to only the people with the condition the drug is for. So how does this relate to golf? How much does it cost an OEM to research and develop their next tech advancement thats gonna give 10 more yards of the tee for a driver, or better feel and distance on a set of irons and what is it gonna cost to change their manufacturing processes and facilities to build it in mass? And how long do they have to get that money back and make a profit? My view is they have 6 months to a year tops! Why? Because in 6 months to a year the next big thing from the other OEM's or even themselves is coming out. So they have a high price point banking on players that already have their stuff, sticking with them (guy playing TM Sim...automatically gets the Sim2 off the rack because that worked so far.), and those guys that are gear junkies. But here is the monkey in the wrench. More players no longer buy off the rack...when $50 bucks gets u a fitting (and in most cases gets added to the club u buy from the fitter) you might lose that brand loyalty. Perfect example...my best friend just started playing with us in March...was using a used set he got from his boss...the old R1 driver and old R7 irons. As he got better (he is naturally athletic and scores 105 for 18 now...the bastard...lol) he started lookin for new clubs. He hit a guy's SIM2 one time when we got paired with a couple strangers once, and loved it. So he went on one of those "rent a club...buy if you like it" sites and rented a SIM2. He got the standard off the rack version, played a couple rounds and was ready to buy. I pushed him to take it in...get numbers...see if the loft was the best for him shaft was best for him, etc and test a few others just for the hell of it... first he found out the R1 had a crack in it! So now he has to get a new one. 1 hr later...He walked out of the fitting with a brand new G425 with a different shaft and loft....and loves it more. Sorry TaylorMade! So what does all this mean...the lowering cost of fittings...the fast pace of new equipment and tech innovations being released mandates the initial higher MSRP, for the OEM's to get the return on the investment. But that is going to change soon I think because they are getting TOO HIGH. Brand loyalty is waning in my opinion. I very rarely see players with a bag full of the same OEM/brand/model clubs. TM driver, Callaway woods/hybrids, with Cobra irons, and vokey wedges for example (except me...I got a bag full of PXG for $1800 thanks to the hero pricing...AND I LOOOOVE THEM). So that bank the OEM's count on wont be there in the future, except for those gear junkies that have the disposable income for it and gotta have the latest greatest (but how many are there of those). There is too much diversity in the market, and despite the games growth through the pandemic, it is still not a big market in the overall scheme (think baseball, football, soccer, etc). Golf is still kind of thought of as an older guy's (with high disposable income) game. So back to the BLUF, the MSRP's are gonna stay high, but with limited production, then prices will drop with a bit more production for those with less disposable income, as players start to realize that its better to wait (and cheaper to wait) because the latest greatest may not be for them. Thanks for listening...need to go catch my breath...lol May your drives be straight, your irons pure, and your putts in the back of the jar! Edited August 21, 2021 by Patt82mp Grammar NRJyzr and Kansas King 2 Quote Play PXG all the way through the bag and an Odessey OS Seven putter with Callaway Triple Track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwgerho Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 OEM'S are not shooting themselves in the foot as long as consumers accept and pay the price. Currently, only two clubs in my bag are OEM names. I earned a technical education and worked many years in technology. Any company - OEM'S included - that still believes in the marketing gimic of swingweight has no place in my bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beakbryce Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 words- callaway preowned Not sure why all the OEM's don't do this. You get a consistent product at the level of "used" you are willing to pay. I received several "like new" clubs that looked brand new for the wife and I at the beginning of the year because no one was trying clubs out at the retail stores last year due to Covid. The 6 hybrid is turning into one of the best clubs I have ever owned. If you really hawk the site, for hybrids and woods, that use the Optifit hosel, you can buy a ladies club and a mens shaft cheaper than buying the mens club to begin with. The heads are the same. If you ever decide to sell it, you can sell it as a mens or ladies club. If it was a Gold rated club 2-3 years ago, it still is. The club is way better than the swing most of us put on it. Londo 1 Quote Driver: Callaway Epic 9 degree, stiff (set at 10 degrees with the movable weight in the center} FW: Callaway Epic 3,5, heaven wood w/ regular shaft (driver shaft in 3 wood, 3 wood shaft in 5 wood, 5 wood shaft in heaven wood, all three set at neutral plus 1 degree) Hybrids: Callaway BB19 4,6,7 (4 set at neutral plus 1 degree and 6 and 7 set at neutral minus 1 degree for gapping purposes) Irons: Callaway Rogue ST Max 8, 9, PW Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM6 50,54,58 Ball: Titleist Pro V1, 1X, Vice Pro Plus or anything I find that day and try out for the fun of it (I haven't bought balls with my own money in at least 10 years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donn lost in San Diego Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Tour Edge. Ask that German guy, Bernie something. Sub 70 putters. And I bot a new, old stock, Callaway Steelhead 3 wood from Cal Pre-owned for less than $100. And heavens to betsy, PXG has found the enlisted infantry price point, not just the retired officers. Quote #1 PXG 0211 10.5 deg, Evnflo Riptide CB 40 gram A flex. 3W: Callaway Steelhead Xr, Tensei Blue CK 55 gram A flex. 5W : Titleist TSi 1, Aldila Ascent 40 regular flex. Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC Fli-Hi 3i 18 degree, Recoil 95 reg flex. 4 iron: GFF Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree forged hollow body, Aerotech Steelfiber . 5 Hybrid: Mizuno (2017) JPX Fli-Hi wave tech, Recoil ESX 460 reg flex. Irons: 6 - PW: Ping I 500, on Recoil Smacwrap ES 760, reg flex. Wedges: 2 x Mizuno S5 52/09. 1@ 50 deg, 1@ 54 deg; New (July 2024) Mizu ES 21, 58 x 08, jet black. Chipper: Don Martin "Up n In" brass/bronze. Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab "R" Ball, face balanced, with 2 piece Stroke Lab multi material shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickp Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 On 8/12/2021 at 11:29 AM, PMookie said: FYI, my youngest is 10, and a financial guy told me to expect in-state tuition at LSU to be around $60,000 a year in 8 years. Another discussion for another day, in another thread….. Ummmm, our oldest Gdaughter sophomore @ Villanova, 75k. Includes room & board. Went back today. PMookie and cnosil 1 1 Quote Rick Left Hand, Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior 5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2 Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2 Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56* Putter; Waaay too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russtopherb Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, Rickp said: Ummmm, our oldest Gdaughter sophomore @ Villanova, 75k. Includes room & board. Went back today. $77k at BU for my daughter. Anyone want to buy a kidney? cnosil and Rickp 1 1 Quote In my Big Max hybrid bag: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex ST-Z 15* Kai'li Blue R Flex ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex Launcher 5h D200 6i-GW CBX 54* & 58* Huntington Beach #10 Tour S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickp Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, russtopherb said: $77k at BU for my daughter. Anyone want to buy a kidney? We’ve got 3 more Gkids coming up and the 2 girls have GPA’s of 4.88. russtopherb 1 Quote Rick Left Hand, Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior 5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2 Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2 Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56* Putter; Waaay too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Rickp said: Ummmm, our oldest Gdaughter sophomore @ Villanova, 75k. Includes room & board. Went back today. 1 hour ago, russtopherb said: $77k at BU for my daughter. Anyone want to buy a kidney? Took my daughter back today as well for her junior year. Hopefully you got some scholarships to bring that cost down a little. Rickp and russtopherb 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: Paradym AI Smoke Max HL 16.5* w/MCA TENSEI AV Series Blue Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Render w/VA Composites Baddazz Backup Putters: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe, Milled Collection RSX 2 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickp Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 15 hours ago, cnosil said: Took my daughter back today as well for her junior year. Hopefully you got some scholarships to bring that cost down a little. Yup, Villanova gave her a nice package plus she got a few other scholarships. A nice Grandpa & Gramma started a 529 plan when Gkids were born. Londo and cnosil 2 Quote Rick Left Hand, Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior 5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2 Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2 Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56* Putter; Waaay too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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