Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[FrogginBullfish]

9 minutes ago, Middler said:

Hypocrite? Rahm’s strongest statements on staying with the PGA were when it looked like they would do right by the players who stayed - BEFORE Monahan pulled the rug out from under the players in June. And that was six months ago, still no agreement. I don’t fault Rahm at all, this is all on Monahan and PIF. If they do unify the PGA/LIV/PIF Rahm is going to look like a genius. If not, he’s a much richer player still in all the majors for 5+ years. I hate LIV but the PGA has been stumbling along for 2 years now - enough!

He's still a hypocrite in my eyes. Worse so than Koepka

[Javs]

8 minutes ago, Middler said:

Hypocrite? Rahm’s strongest statements on staying with the PGA were when it looked like they would do right by the players who stayed - BEFORE Monahan pulled the rug out from under the players in June. And that was six months ago, still no agreement. I don’t fault Rahm at all, this is all on Monahan and PIF. If they do unify the PGA/LIV/PIF Rahm is going to look like a genius. If not, he’s a much richer player still in all the majors for 5+ years. I hate LIV but the PGA has been stumbling along for 2 years now - enough!

I think that Rahm’s departure will hurt the PGA Tour product more than any of the others that left. 

[TylorJudd]

11 hours ago, cnosil said:

Apparently Rory wants to rewrite Ryder Cup eligibility rules because of the Rahm move. 

 

Love that, the US should think hard about their team as well. 
 

well at least their next captain hahaha

[TylorJudd]

26 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

I understand Rahm's frustration with Monahan over the merger. But I have a hard time feeling like he's any less of a hypocrite for up and leaving. Monahan betrayed the trust of a lot of people with that merger. So Rahm's solution is to instead join that other league that he's said he doesn't like the format of, that he's not playing golf just for money, etc etc. Monahan might have turned back on his word, but why does that give freedom to the Rahms of the world not to hold to their word?

Sad to see this from Rahm. I did think he was better than this. Guess not.

What 28 year old won’t do this?

[TylorJudd]

3 hours ago, Owengeorge13 said:

This is what I’m talking about Josh!  Get interested!  13 teams now, no word on who is on Rahms team or how this will shake it up.  

Honestly just assumed he would be on the fireballs but another captain allows growth

[TylorJudd]

9 minutes ago, Javs said:

I think that Rahm’s departure will hurt the PGA Tour product more than any of the others that left. 

This was a fairly fatal blow. He was the most exciting to watch on the tour, except maybe Rickie and his resurgence

[Javs]

3 minutes ago, TylorJudd said:

This was a fairly fatal blow. He was the most exciting to watch on the tour, except maybe Rickie and his resurgence

I think it becomes fatal only if Scotty and Rory leave next. However, Rahm’s departure is a very significant loss to the product. 

[FrogginBullfish]

3 minutes ago, TylorJudd said:

What 28 year old won’t do this?

Arguments like this or the classic everybody has a price are so meaningless to me. Some people have a spine and are willing to hold to their word and stand up for their values and what they believe in instead of just cashing in on easy money.

Attached are what he said about money just last year. Monahan betraying the player's trust isn't enough to shift blame off Jon for this hypocrisy in my opinion.

[TylorJudd]

2 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

I think my biggest issue with these guys is, just grow a pair and say it's for the money.  I don't blame you for taking the money but don't say it's because you want to help expand the game of golf.  It's the same narrative that they all try to say.  

It's a business decision at the end of the day.  All these guys play for their income.  

I play because I enjoy the game.  

We all know that is for the money, and they’re aware of it too. Not sure we need to hear it, obviously they are not going to say I’m moving for the money to discredit LIV any further. 
The restrictive nature of the PGA needs to adapt, or things like Joel Dahmen at the WM happen let the guys wear shorts FFS, it’s hot as hell and the world is getting hotter. If we can’t adapt traditions into our evolution then they will die. Don’t get me wrong, I like the PGA, I do wish there was a blend of the two. Every weekend I’m on the course in the summer though, the local clubs around here look like LIV tournaments anyways. Guys getting way too smashed, being embarrassingly loud and a noxious, hitting on cart girls if they’re present, and being a drunk idiot in the club house. That is golf to a large group of people, and golf has to be visible to all groups and opinions or we will see golf courses close for townhome developments. It’s nice when you go to more expensive courses because you do get that peaceful majestic nature of the sport the PGA embodies and once had, but we can’t afford that every day

Either way, I love the discussion this creates because we all grow from things like this

[Alan K]

I love capitalism and watching the invisible hand of the free market work its magic on the world of golf.   That said, I would like to see LIV go to 4 day tournaments but that is wishful thinking.  

When the LIV offers Rahm 6 times his lifetime earnings of $50 Mill to play golf, how could someone say no?   I am pissed at the PGA for killing their brand and thinking the laws of free market economics don't apply to them.  So it goes.

Right now my biggest worry is if I will shoot in the low 80s this afternoon and win a few nets and gross and win my  2-2-2 dollar auto press and pry a few dollars from my friends' wallets.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Alan K
bad writing:))

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 hours ago, cnosil said:

Apparently Rory wants to rewrite Ryder Cup eligibility rules because of the Rahm move. 

 

Of course he does now. He didn’t care when it was Sergio and Poults.

The more he opens his mouth the more I could care less about watching him golf

[TylorJudd]

26 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Arguments like this or the classic everybody has a price are so meaningless to me. Some people have a spine and are willing to hold to their word and stand up for their values and what they believe in instead of just cashing in on easy money.

Attached are what he said about money just last year. Monahan betraying the player's trust isn't enough to shift blame off Jon for this hypocrisy in my opinion.

And where are the best in the world seemingly ending up? I don’t see any argument against other professional sports and their stars cashing in.

None of us know the guy personally and don’t really have much right to be keyboard warriors and say he’s spineless. The dude is more than likely a real stand up human being. Why are we so hung up on the diction he used in his statements? He knows we all know why he did it? What difference does it make to any of our lives because he didn’t verbalized what we already know to be true?

15 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Of course he does now. He didn’t care when it was Sergio and Poults.

The more he opens his mouth the more I could care less about watching him golf

+1

[Preeway]

48 minutes ago, Javs said:

I think that Rahm’s departure will hurt the PGA Tour product more than any of the others that left. 

100% agree. Very few of the first wave guys that left really had a solid following. Maybe Cam, BK, DJ, Phil and Bryson. But Rahm eclipsed all of them by far. I don't see his decision as hypocritical at all. The context around him changed since he first came out saying he wanted nothing to do with LIV. Once the context changed it made sense that his own rationale and decision making could also change. Blame the PGAT for this mess, not Rahm.

[FrogginBullfish]

3 minutes ago, TylorJudd said:

And where are the best in the world seemingly ending up? I don’t see any argument against other professional sports and their stars cashing in.

None of us know the guy personally and don’t really have much right to be keyboard warriors and say he’s spineless. The dude is more than likely a real stand up human being. Why are we so hung up on the diction he used in his statements? He knows we all know why he did it? What difference does it make to any of our lives because he didn’t verbalized what we already know to be true?

+1

Other sports stars aren't being brought up because we're in a golf thread talking about golfers. I have just as much issue with the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar cashing in with the Saudi soccer league. But we're talking about LIV golf here.

[Owengeorge13]

23 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Other sports stars aren't being brought up because we're in a golf thread talking about golfers. I have just as much issue with the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar cashing in with the Saudi soccer league. But we're talking about LIV golf here.

Valid point.

[gavinski91]

16 hours ago, MattWillGolf said:

I wish Jon would have been honest regarding his move to LIV. Harold Varner III  has been the only honest one to make the switch. But it’s galling when they state the move is to grow the sport. The only thing growing is their bank accounts. This does nothing  to grow the sport.

I wonder if part of "growing the game" is getting to play events with top players in their home country. The PGA Tour has played almost exclusively in the US; I wonder if part of the appeal for Rahm was seeing the crowds that Cam Smith got in Australia, and imagining playing a tournament as part of his tour in front of massive crowds in his home country.

[gavinski91]

5 hours ago, Josh Parker said:

Can someone that follows LIV explain to me how the trades work?  You trade the top player of the year for someone that was down towards the bottom....  How does that make any sense?

I'm kind of glad I don't watch much golf these days other than the majors.  

This SI article lays it out pretty well: https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golf-bubba-watson-explains-trading-talor-gooch-landing-matthew-wolff

Basically it sounds like Bubba believes that Wolff has a higher upside than Gooch in the long term, and that Wolff will get better moving away from Brooks' team and being mentored by Bubba. Also frees up some money for the team, since Gooch was a more expensive player (not quite a salary cap space, but since Bubba presumably has equity in the team then there's a benefit for him).

[TylorJudd]

44 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Other sports stars aren't being brought up because we're in a golf thread talking about golfers. I have just as much issue with the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar cashing in with the Saudi soccer league. But we're talking about LIV golf here.

Fair enough, most of us probably wouldn’t agree with where money comes from that pays all top athletes in any sport.

Jon Rahm, or any other professional golfer that has joined LIV, doesn’t affect my love for the sport of golf, and I hope it doesn’t for anyone else either. Why let these things happening fuel emotions that lean on the more negative side and allow divisiveness, resentment, and to a lesser extent anger into such an awesome sport. That may be what has contributed to the creation of LIV, this whole saga, and its growth of the game. 
 

I’ll use the word very loosely, but “monopolies”, not using that in a purely financial sense, when allowed to persist tend to lead to “rebellion” of some sort. In my opinion, I don’t believe LIV or any of its employees are the issue, the PGA tour is. Rahm is an employee, he took a promotion, sought out by a headhunter. Very standard stuff.

[TylorJudd]

7 minutes ago, gavinski91 said:

This SI article lays it out pretty well: https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golf-bubba-watson-explains-trading-talor-gooch-landing-matthew-wolff

Basically it sounds like Bubba believes that Wolff has a higher upside than Gooch in the long term, and that Wolff will get better moving away from Brooks' team and being mentored by Bubba. Also frees up some money for the team, since Gooch was a more expensive player (not quite a salary cap space, but since Bubba presumably has equity in the team then there's a benefit for him).

Good article

[Preeway]

1 hour ago, TylorJudd said:

This was a fairly fatal blow. He was the most exciting to watch on the tour, except maybe Rickie and his resurgence

Perhaps not fatal, but possibly on life support. Either JM gets his poop in a group and figures out how to finalize the PIF agreement or the PGAT needs to cut him loose. There is no middle ground IMO.

[GolfSpy_APH]

12 minutes ago, gavinski91 said:

This SI article lays it out pretty well: https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golf-bubba-watson-explains-trading-talor-gooch-landing-matthew-wolff

Basically it sounds like Bubba believes that Wolff has a higher upside than Gooch in the long term, and that Wolff will get better moving away from Brooks' team and being mentored by Bubba. Also frees up some money for the team, since Gooch was a more expensive player (not quite a salary cap space, but since Bubba presumably has equity in the team then there's a benefit for him).

So Bubba is playing Dynasty and Brooks is playing redraft. I think is goes to show the uncertainty of what and how this is going to look next year or even 3 plus years down the line. 

[TylorJudd]

3 minutes ago, Preeway said:

Perhaps not fatal, but possibly on life support. Either JM gets his poop in a group and figures out how to finalize the PIF agreement or the PGAT needs to cut him loose. There is no middle ground IMO.

Jay is certainly an issue for the tour. I have to assume the board will be looking for change

[FrogginBullfish]

7 minutes ago, TylorJudd said:

Fair enough, most of us probably wouldn’t agree with where money comes from that pays all top athletes in any sport.

Jon Rahm, or any other professional golfer that has joined LIV, doesn’t affect my love for the sport of golf, and I hope it doesn’t for anyone else either. Why let these things happening fuel emotions that lean on the more negative side and allow divisiveness, resentment, and to a lesser extent anger into such an awesome sport. That may be what has contributed to the creation of LIV, this whole saga, and its growth of the game. 
 

I’ll use the word very loosely, but “monopolies”, not using that in a purely financial sense, when allowed to persist tend to lead to “rebellion” of some sort. In my opinion, I don’t believe LIV or any of its employees are the issue, the PGA tour is. Rahm is an employee, he took a promotion, sought out by a headhunter. Very standard stuff.

The appearance of LIV has hampered my enjoyment of professional golf. LIV spawned from a 30-year vendetta from Greg Norman had against the PGA Tour, Saudi Arabia's desire to gain control of major sports entities, and Phil Mickelson's greed.

LIV and how they operate have been the issue here the entire time, in my opinion. The only entity I fault for the fraction in professional golf is LIV. The PGA Tour responded to a hostile takeover attempt.

[chisag]

1 hour ago, TylorJudd said:

None of us know the guy personally and don’t really have much right to be keyboard warriors and say he’s spineless. The dude is more than likely a real stand up human being. Why are we so hung up on the diction he used in his statements? He knows we all know why he did it? What difference does it make to any of our lives because he didn’t verbalized what we already know to be true?

 

... I have watched Rahm act like a 2 yr old child for years in Europe and the US. Don't know anything about whether the guy is a stand up human away of the course other than the way he acts while playing and I would never play in a 4some with him. I'd hate to be hit in the head with a flying club nor would I want to share 5 hours with his dour, spoiled demeanor. That said, what he chooses to do with his career is none of my business and I don't really care one way or the other but at least going to LIV means I only have to see his temper tantrums in Majors 4 times a year. Win-win.  

[TylorJudd]

6 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

So Bubba is playing Dynasty and Brooks is playing redraft. I think is goes to show the uncertainty of what and how this is going to look next year or even 3 plus years down the line. 

 Certainly creates multiple dynamics to allow power shifts inside LIV. The business structure of how the teams operate is interesting, but I like Bubbas approach. Brooks did seem rash with Wolff. 
 

who wouldn’t want to play for a team named Range GOATS

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Preeway said:

100% agree. Very few of the first wave guys that left really had a solid following. Maybe Cam, BK, DJ, Phil and Bryson. But Rahm eclipsed all of them by far. I don't see his decision as hypocritical at all. The context around him changed since he first came out saying he wanted nothing to do with LIV. Once the context changed it made sense that his own rationale and decision making could also change. Blame the PGAT for this mess, not Rahm.

Rahm has as many haters if not more that his fans

[Preeway]

6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Rahm has as many haters if not more that his fans

Never got a vibe the guy had haters. But then again, everyone who experiences success generates a lot of hate. Just the nature of the beast.

[TylorJudd]

20 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I have watched Rahm act like a 2 yr old child for years in Europe and the US. Don't know anything about whether the guy is a stand up human away of the course other than the way he acts while playing and I would never play in a 4some with him. I'd hate to be hit in the head with a flying club nor would I want to share 5 hours with his dour, spoiled demeanor. That said, what he chooses to do with his career is none of my business and I don't really care one way or the other but at least going to LIV means I only have to see his temper tantrums in Majors 4 times a year. Win-win.  

I think most of us would say our regular foursomes are sacred and most would have a hard time for us to accept them in.

We have also seen the likes of Horschel, Detry, Si Woo Kim, Stenson, Tyrell Hatton, JT, and Rory lose their s*** on the course breaking a clubs, and throwing them into the lake. Hell, we saw Scheffler kick his putter across the green on the DP tour. 
 

Nobody seems to lose their s*** like Garcia and I don’t like watching him in LIV either but that unfortunately exists everywhere.

36 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

The appearance of LIV has hampered my enjoyment of professional golf. LIV spawned from a 30-year vendetta from Greg Norman had against the PGA Tour, Saudi Arabia's desire to gain control of major sports entities, and Phil Mickelson's greed.

LIV and how they operate have been the issue here the entire time, in my opinion. The only entity I fault for the fraction in professional golf is LIV. The PGA Tour responded to a hostile takeover attempt.

Fair enough, 

2 sides of every coin. 

[Javs]

2 hours ago, Preeway said:

100% agree. Very few of the first wave guys that left really had a solid following. Maybe Cam, BK, DJ, Phil and Bryson. But Rahm eclipsed all of them by far. I don't see his decision as hypocritical at all. The context around him changed since he first came out saying he wanted nothing to do with LIV. Once the context changed it made sense that his own rationale and decision making could also change. Blame the PGAT for this mess, not Rahm.

I agree fully. I just wish someone wanted to offer 600 million to an over 60 golfer with a 1 handicap, ha ha. 

[Preeway]

3 minutes ago, Javs said:

I agree fully. I just wish someone wanted to offer 600 million to an over 60 golfer with a 1 handicap, ha ha. 

How about over 50? Asking for a friend…