L.A.B. DF3 Putters - 2024 Forum Review

[Cfhandyman]

 The Bottom line (Executive) Week 7 summary  -  June 6, 2024

Summary:  A busy week.  @MattWillGolf took Nemo to Club Champion for his putter fitting on SAM  @Cfhandyman visited his friends at TXG (Club Champion Canada) for a putter fitting/test on Quintic. Hint: Lab rat was a rock star and he makes an early call and puts the L.A.B DF3 in his bag after the fitting and 9 rounds of play and data. We are adding a new feature highlighting the unofficial tester/reviewer of the week.  This week its @Rearviewmirror and his testing results with the L.A.B DF3.  There was also a discussion about the headcovers and a new release by L.A.B. of colours, armlock/broom stick version of the DF3 released this week.   Awesome stuff.

MGS tester of the week – Jaron Bernath @jbern

Best posts of the Week

@Cfhandyman summary of 9 rounds of play with the DF3 What has Stood out: An increase in the number of one putts to 6.7 per round, an increase in birdies to 1.9 per round, an increase in three putts and an overall increase in strokes gained for putting.  The only anomaly is that three putts increased, but I believe this is a function of getting used to the L.A.B. with respect to distance control.  Where it is doing exceptionally well is putts from ten feet and in, plus the added confidence it has given me in knowing that I can make these putts consistently. I strongly suspect that this is due to the exceptional face control of the L.A.B. which will be tested on Quintic to validate. 

@Rearviewmirror Just hitting the putter, the DF3 has more of a "ting" noise off the face, which I actually quite like. It's definitely more muted if you miss the middle of the face.  Going back and forth between the DF3 and the Mezz, the Mezz feels really light in my hands by comparison, and as if the face is way more likely to twist open or shut. One other noticeable difference is that a toe strike on the Mezz feels like the face is creating "gear effect" and sending the ball left. The ball off the face of the Mezz in general feels a bit "dead", with the DF3 providing a much more "engaged" feel on my ball (Pro V1). Exactly the same shafts, so really easy to A/B compare.  On ExPutt I saw the DF3 rolling way truer to line and also had way fewer putts that I either left significantly short or sent way past the hole.

@Cfhandyman  putter fitting/testing at TXG.  Mike’s (TXG fitter) recommendation: “Chris after watching you, seeing and evaluating the results, it is very clear and as a friend just put the L.A.B. in the bag and leave it there. It is so good for you.”

@MattWillGolf I went to my session at Club Champion yesterday. It was a very good learning experience. The end result according to the SAM session and my fitter was the that the Evnroll ER11v was more suited to my putting style. But I am somewhat disappointed at the moment because the reports from the session which were emailed to me were incomplete. They were only of the Evnroll putter and not the DF3. I have emailed my fitter but he was out of the office today. Hopefully he can send the details for both putters. 

Best pictures:

  

  A scenic drive to visit all the testers involved in the L.A.B. DF3

   

@jbern vs Bryson

 

Best video post

@jbern

Unofficial tester/reviewer of the week: @Rearviewmirror

I guess I'm joining as an (unofficial) tester. Big Red hasn't been quite so reliable (as mentioned above, 3 putts and leaving lags 7ft+ short have abounded), so when I saw that my local store had the blue DF3 in stock in my specs with the Accra shaft I couldn't pass up testing it out. After rolling it...

Line of the week

@ole gray You better join the party hoss!  Mine should be arriving soon and I'm as excited as a fat hog on a dropped watermelon

Mike’s (TXG fitter) recommendation: “Chris after watching you, seeing and evaluating the results, it is very clear and as a friend just put the L.A.B. in the bag and leave it there. It is so good for you.”

See you next week for week 8 bottom line summary

Links to previous weeks summary

Week 6

Week 5

Week 4

Week 3

Week 2

Week 1

[MattWillGolf]

42 minutes ago, Cfhandyman said:

 The Bottom line (Executive) Week 7 summary  -  June 6, 2024

Summary:  A busy week.  @MattWillGolf took Nemo to Club Champion for his putter fitting on SAM  @Cfhandyman visited his friends at TXG (Club Champion Canada) for a putter fitting/test on Quintic. Hint: Lab rat was a rock star and he makes an early call and puts the L.A.B DF3 in his bag after the fitting and 9 rounds of play and data. We are adding a new feature highlighting the unofficial tester/reviewer of the week.  This week its @Rearviewmirror and his testing results with the L.A.B DF3.  There was also a discussion about the headcovers and a new release by L.A.B. of colours, armlock/broom stick version of the DF3 released this week.   Awesome stuff.

MGS tester of the week – Jaron Bernath @jbern

Best posts of the Week

@Cfhandyman summary of 9 rounds of play with the DF3 What has Stood out: An increase in the number of one putts to 6.7 per round, an increase in birdies to 1.9 per round, an increase in three putts and an overall increase in strokes gained for putting.  The only anomaly is that three putts increased, but I believe this is a function of getting used to the L.A.B. with respect to distance control.  Where it is doing exceptionally well is putts from ten feet and in, plus the added confidence it has given me in knowing that I can make these putts consistently. I strongly suspect that this is due to the exceptional face control of the L.A.B. which will be tested on Quintic to validate. 

@Rearviewmirror Just hitting the putter, the DF3 has more of a "ting" noise off the face, which I actually quite like. It's definitely more muted if you miss the middle of the face.  Going back and forth between the DF3 and the Mezz, the Mezz feels really light in my hands by comparison, and as if the face is way more likely to twist open or shut. One other noticeable difference is that a toe strike on the Mezz feels like the face is creating "gear effect" and sending the ball left. The ball off the face of the Mezz in general feels a bit "dead", with the DF3 providing a much more "engaged" feel on my ball (Pro V1). Exactly the same shafts, so really easy to A/B compare.  On ExPutt I saw the DF3 rolling way truer to line and also had way fewer putts that I either left significantly short or sent way past the hole.

@Cfhandyman  putter fitting/testing at TXG.  Mike’s (TXG fitter) recommendation: “Chris after watching you, seeing and evaluating the results, it is very clear and as a friend just put the L.A.B. in the bag and leave it there. It is so good for you.”

@MattWillGolf I went to my session at Club Champion yesterday. It was a very good learning experience. The end result according to the SAM session and my fitter was the that the Evnroll ER11v was more suited to my putting style. But I am somewhat disappointed at the moment because the reports from the session which were emailed to me were incomplete. They were only of the Evnroll putter and not the DF3. I have emailed my fitter but he was out of the office today. Hopefully he can send the details for both putters. 

Best pictures:

  

  A scenic drive to visit all the testers involved in the L.A.B. DF3

 

   

@jbern vs Bryson

 

Best video post

@jbern

Unofficial tester/reviewer of the week: @Rearviewmirror

I guess I'm joining as an (unofficial) tester. Big Red hasn't been quite so reliable (as mentioned above, 3 putts and leaving lags 7ft+ short have abounded), so when I saw that my local store had the blue DF3 in stock in my specs with the Accra shaft I couldn't pass up testing it out. After rolling it...

 

Line of the week

@ole gray You better join the party hoss!  Mine should be arriving soon and I'm as excited as a fat hog on a dropped watermelon

Mike’s (TXG fitter) recommendation: “Chris after watching you, seeing and evaluating the results, it is very clear and as a friend just put the L.A.B. in the bag and leave it there. It is so good for you.”

See you next week for week 8 bottom line summary

Links to previous weeks summary

Week 6

Week 5

Week 4

Week 3

Week 2

Week 1

Thanks for this Chris. Always so well done and very much appreciated.

[MattWillGolf]

I went out for 9 holes yesterday. I carded 19 putts for the nine. Overall I am happy with the results. I had three 3-putts, four 2-putts and two 1-putts. The 3-putts have been particularly galling because of the distance of the putt. They are usually in the 1-2 foot range. One of the things I did learn from my Club Champion session was I consistently aiming left of target with the DF3. 
I do have a Shot Scope H4 but my home course gives the tracking fits. The GPS says I’m on the green when I’m not and occasion it does not even recognize that I am on the green when I am standing dead center in the green. It appears the Arccos has a definite upper hand in this regard after reading posts from my fellow testers. 

[CFreddie]

2 minutes ago, MattWillGolf said:

I went out for 9 holes yesterday. I carded 19 putts for the nine. Overall I am happy with the results. I had three 3-putts, four 2-putts and two 1-putts. The 3-putts have been particularly galling because of the distance of the putt. They are usually in the 1-2 foot range. One of the things I did learn from my Club Champion session was I consistently aiming left of target with the DF3. 
I do have a Shot Scope H4 but my home course gives the tracking fits. The GPS says I’m on the green when I’m not and occasion it does not even recognize that I am on the green when I am standing dead center in the green. It appears the Arccos has a definite upper hand in this regard after reading posts from my fellow testers. 

Thanks for the summary - I wouldn't say Arccos is perfect either, but it does sound like SS has some location issues.  Keep up the good work!

On the left aim - why do you think that is?  Curious if the fitter gave you any feedback on that portion - super interesting!

[Rearviewmirror]

2 hours ago, MattWillGolf said:

I went out for 9 holes yesterday. I carded 19 putts for the nine. Overall I am happy with the results. I had three 3-putts, four 2-putts and two 1-putts. The 3-putts have been particularly galling because of the distance of the putt. They are usually in the 1-2 foot range. One of the things I did learn from my Club Champion session was I consistently aiming left of target with the DF3. 
I do have a Shot Scope H4 but my home course gives the tracking fits. The GPS says I’m on the green when I’m not and occasion it does not even recognize that I am on the green when I am standing dead center in the green. It appears the Arccos has a definite upper hand in this regard after reading posts from my fellow testers. 

What alignment aid do you have on the putter, and are you left or right eye dominant?

[CFreddie]

Wanted to share some additional data from my recent home practice sessions.  I have a "Putting Perfect" mat (DJ endorsed lol), which has two different tracks (normal size hole and a smaller hole for more intense practice) and set distances at 2 through 8 feet.  For this practice, I putted 10 balls with each putter at each 2' segment, alternating between putters at each distance.  Here is a summary of my first three sessions:

As you can see, Chewie is currently outperforming my gamer across each distance, which is reassuring.  I'll continue updating this spreadsheet for each session and share weekly updates going forward.  

Will probably switch up this practice here and there with a ladder drill (must hit X consecutive putts then move back and if you miss, you start over) or alternating / randomizing distances.  Will also continue to plan sharing Arccos data after each round and Stack comparisons when I'm able to get on a real putting green.

[Cfhandyman]

Lab rat put on a clinic yesterday. 28 putt round including 8 one hole putts and no three putts.  6 to 8 footer for par.  No problem dad. 10 and 12 footer, also to save par. No sweat. 35 footer, stopped 1 inch short of going in. It was scary good. It was almost like I could take the head cover off and whisper in her ear, get the ball in the hole. Unfortunately my approach game was dreadful so Lab rat saved me numerous times. Not one of my better rounds, other than the putter. 

[jbern]

I was able to get out for 9 holes yesterday and had another good putting performance from Dory! 14 total putts, 4 one putts, 5 two putts! I really had only one “bad” putt, but then made the 7’ comeback putt! Detailed log of putts is below: 

My score was a +4 40. With how well I was putting I was pretty disappointed in the score, but that’s a story for the How’d you play thread. 

 

[jbern]

2 hours ago, CFreddie said:

Wanted to share some additional data from my recent home practice sessions.  I have a "Putting Perfect" mat (DJ endorsed lol), which has two different tracks (normal size hole and a smaller hole for more intense practice) and set distances at 2 through 8 feet.  For this practice, I putted 10 balls with each putter at each 2' segment, alternating between putters at each distance.  Here is a summary of my first three sessions:

As you can see, Chewie is currently outperforming my gamer across each distance, which is reassuring.  I'll continue updating this spreadsheet for each session and share weekly updates going forward.  

Will probably switch up this practice here and there with a ladder drill (must hit X consecutive putts then move back and if you miss, you start over) or alternating / randomizing distances.  Will also continue to plan sharing Arccos data after each round and Stack comparisons when I'm able to get on a real putting green.

Looks like Chewie had a good showing on the Perfect Practice mat! Seems like a great way to get some confidence on those all important short putts! 
How did Chewie feel compared to the Scotty when using the mat?

[jbern]

1 hour ago, Cfhandyman said:

Lab rat put on a clinic yesterday. 28 putt round including 8 one hole putts and no three putts.  6 to 8 footer for par.  No problem dad. 10 and 12 footer, also to save par. No sweat. 35 footer, stopped 1 inch short of going in. It was scary good. It was almost like I could take the head cover off and whisper in her ear, get the ball in the hole. Unfortunately my approach game was dreadful so Lab rat saved me numerous times. Not one of my better rounds, other than the putter. 

28 putts is very solid for any round! Too bad the approach game wasn’t treating you as nice as LAB rat! Sounds a lot like my round from yesterday! 

[Michael.Sandoval33]

4 minutes ago, jbern said:

28 putts is very solid for any round! Too bad the approach game wasn’t treating you as nice as LAB rat! Sounds a lot like my round from yesterday! 

I was going to say, your 14 through 9 actually pairs up well to @Cfhandyman and his 28 through 18. 

Man, what I wouldn't give to shave off 5-7 putting strokes a round

[ole gray]

Well folks my DF3 is in the bag and the way I'm rolling the rock I see some closet time for my Mezz Max Broom! Let me tell ya'll what happened today as I was at my course practicing. A guy looked over and said, "ain't that the putter everybody is making a fuss about on the internet"! I said hell yea as sure as grits are groceries. He spit out a chew and asked if he could roll one. I handed him my putter and said be careful hoss, these things are highly addicting. He was about 20 feet from the cup and drained that sucker like a water bug in a breams mouth. His eyes got big and he started slobbing and I could only tell a little bit about what he was saying. I could make out some of it where he said take this damn thing back before my wife whups my arse for buying one!

[Cfhandyman]

Week 7 normal Summary

@Cfhandyman Well, it had to happen.  After a hot and great start with the L.A.B. DF3, it came back to earth yesterday.  Front nine was miserable with 19 putts in total, two 3 putts and only 1 putt.  Back nine, Lab rat  came back to life, 2 birdies, 14 putts, 4 one putts and no triples.  Overall, though, the L.A.B. has been quite impressive with approximately 0.5 gain in strokes gained versus the Evnroll over 9 rounds.

@ole gray Guys I ordered my DF3 on May 15th and received an email today May 30th that it was shipped!  Heck that makes me happier than a hawg drowning in a slop bucket. - Line of the week

@Rearviewmirror I may have a problem... I guess I'm joining as an (unofficial) tester. Big Red hasn't been quite so reliable (as mentioned above, 3 putts and leaving lags 7ft+ short have abounded), so when I saw that my local store had the blue DF3 in stock in my specs with the Accra shaft I couldn't pass up testing it out. After rolling it...

@jbern That's awesome that you're diving into the DF3 and I'm glad you're having initial success with it! I like your description of the sound as a ting, but muted. I have been having trouble coming up with descriptors for the sound.  Between the Mezz and the DF3, does ball position change since the shaft is farther behind the face of the DF3?

@Rearviewmirror I really like the face feel. I do wonder if the slightly more "positive" feel off the face is what is helping me on lag putting so far. I will be really interested to see how it compares on the course - playing a tough track on Tuesday so we will see how it goes.  I haven't markedly changed ball position - I tend to go for what feels natural, which tends to coincide with the tip of the shaft about central in my stance.

@MattWillGolf I had a better outing with Nemo this morning than last time out. Once again 9 holes. 19 putts in all. I had two 3-putts which were particularly galling due the distance, 1-2 footers.  I had six 2-putts. And One 1-putt. My six footers seem better than shorter distances for some reason. More time on the practice green is in order.  

@Bucky CC This statement is exactly how I feel about my recent purchase of the DF3.  I've had great results at home in a controlled environment, but my first time out on the course last night was terrible.  I don't think I made a single putt over 3 feet and lost strokes at every distance.  The DF3 feels different than any putter I've ever used.  I could see how it could be a magic wand in the hands of some people, but for others (including me) it's going to take a lot of work to get used the stroke type required to get the most out of the magic.

@GolfSpy MPR  Blech 

 

@Cfhandyman  

Mike’s (TXG fitter) recommendation: “Chris after watching you, seeing and evaluating the results, it is very clear and as a friend just put the L.A.B. in the bag and leave it there. It is so good for you.”

 So what makes the L.A.B. DF3 so good?. Here are my thoughts: It’s actually a combination of factors. One is the design and technology of lie angle balancing and returning the club face square to impact. Another contributing factor is the forward press grip. What I hadn’t realized with Scottie and Odyssey is that my hands were not forward while putting and it had an impact. Then the light went off in my head. Of course, the Evnroll and L.A.B. both had you with your hands forward. Mike recommended keeping the Evnroll to practice and train with as it keeps my hands forward by design.  Last piece of the puzzle is the shaft. The TPT shaft, like the stability are rigid and superb at preventing twisting.  So, when you take the head, centre shaft plus forward press grip, plus superb shaft, stiff and very low in torque and then balance it, you are left with something quite special.  In my hands, it’s the real deal and complete package.

Decision time: So after nine rounds of play which to date has shown a 0.5 stroke improvement in strokes gained (Arccos), as well as more one putts and birdies over the Evnroll AND putter testing on Quintic which demonstrated elite face control, the L.A.B. DF3 goes into the bag.  For now.  I say for now as I still want to get at least 20 rounds of data on the L.A.B. DF3 and then compare again.

@HikingMike Wow, that was amazing. Well done with that testing! It would be hard to argue with that, what, 72% better face angle?  Wait was face angle on the LAB 0.17 or 0.03?

@Cfhandyman The average for the L.A.B. was 0.03 with a minimum of -0.9 and a maximum of 0.75. The 0.17 degree face angle reading was the first putt with the L.A.B. DF3 where it basically threw down the gauntlet and said top this.  It was impressive. 

@HikingMike Oh hey I see the table image does have a standard deviation for face angle on those, “SD”. They are all quite close (LAB, Scotty, Odyssey) in standard deviation of face angle, with the Odyssey slightly tighter. Since the Odyssey’s average was more off, that shows the Odyssey must’ve  skewed one direction consistently. But they’re all very similar in SD, and with that, the LAB’s win in average face angle is confirmed impressive 

@Rearviewmirror It might be worth experimenting with ball position (a little forward or back in your stance) to see if that ups the consistency.

@jbern I agree! I’m hoping to let the technology shine over time and get things zeroed out more the more I get comfortable with the DF3. My goal is 1 degree or less. It’s not as easy as you’d think to be within 1 degree on every stroke.  From the Exputt path graphic, it looks like things will get squared out more if I move the ball position forward about half a ball. I’m going to start there with my ball position. I am right eye dominant, so the ball position is probably farther back in my stance than I think

@Rearviewmirror I think eye dominance plays a bigger role with ball position with LAB putters given the "square to the arc" design of the lie angle balancing. I've definitely seen big shifts in impact angle with relatively minor adjustments to setup

@GolfSpy MPR

@Rob Person What a week in LAB world!!!  Thanks for the updates @Cfhandyman

@Middler I just bought a DF3, but I won't pass judgement until I've played with it for at least 4-6 weeks. I've had two bad putting rounds with it, and two good ones so far - that's probably not much different than any other putter I've owned. I don't feel like I was guiding/manipulating my past putters, so I am not getting a night & day feel difference with the DF3 as some have reported - but only time will tell if I can just let the LAB concept works

@golfguy94 @Cfhandyman I'm curious on your thoughts regarding the alignment aid that you chose.  I'm going to order a LAB putter and I'm between a simple version like their B aid- straight line long and T.  or something similar to yours.  I think it could help in mid to short range but be too much on longer range putts. 

@CfhandymanL.A.B. Offers 30+ alignment aids, but I kept coming back to 2-3 designs. Then we found out that L.A.B. Also has the option for you to combine designs.  So our photo editing wizard, @jbern combined a few designs for us.  So I liked the simplicity of the T, (C), but kept coming back to the arrow (EE).  When combined (EE+C), I really liked how it looked and helps you focus.  On course it works very well. Make sure you do their online fitting to get correct length and lie angle.  I  hope that helps. 

@jbern If you're thinking about combining two alignment aids, let me know and I can mock them up for you. I still have the photoshop file saved so it goes quick! I actually combined 3 different alignment aids for my build (I, X and G). Enjoy the process!

@Middler I’ve read quite a few articles from owners who said it took them a long time to adjust to a LAB putter, to quit manipulating the putter like LAB says everyone has in the past. I’m fine with the DF3 I got, if it doesn’t work I’ll move on to something else.

@Rearviewmirror More that LAB offer free remote fitting, so you have nothing to lose to shoot them a video to confirm the fit. But yes - the torque hangover is real. For some it's weeks, others it's months!

@yungkory With how well received this test seems, I may have to order a DF3. The Link experiment is over now and the DF2.1 is back in the bag. Someone talk me out of a DF3

@GolfSpy MPR Not me.

@Rearviewmirror I'll get back to you in ~4hrs. I've gone through a Link, Mezz, and now DF3. Mezz I could feel the technology helping, Link didn't do much for me, DF3 feels like a magic wand so far but I want to see how it does over a full round.

@jbern Great news on the rib injury... I was able to play two 9 hole rounds recently (Thursday and yesterday) and I felt great during the round and just slight rib soreness post round. Big win for me and I'm free to get out as much as possible moving forward! I think between my two recent outdoor rounds, one previous outdoor round and a lot of time on the Exputt, I have enough time with the DF3 to provide my first impressions. That will be updated on the main testing post soon!

A one word summary of the DF3 during my two recent outdoor rounds: fine. I took some video of my putts during the round from Thursday and I'm trying to edit it to make it mildly viewable and that's taking a bit of time. I'll have my more detailed summary from those two rounds once I get that edited.

@MattWillGolf Glad to hear that your ribs are on the mend

@Swood1994 Likely has been stated somewhere in this thread but any of the testers going from a blade or mid-blade style putter to the DF3 what has been your biggest struggle and what do you see as the biggest advantage? I currently play a Scotty Squareback 2 and recently been toying with an odyssey 7s and the DF3 has been catching my attention due to this thread to switch to bigger mallet style putter.

@Cfhandyman Initial struggle was distance control, specifically putts coming up short. Realized I just need to take it back a little bit further.  Biggest advantage is the exceptional face control, however, you need a light grip and let the putter do it’s thing.  I.e. it will return to square by itself with a pendulum like stroke. So keep the hands quiet and try not to manipulate the face.  Hope that helps. 

@Rearviewmirror Bit of a painful first round with the DF3 in the bag, but it's going to be staying in the bag!

@matt_puttercup  I gave in and bought a DF3 recently from the LAB Outlet (Platinum 35"/69° Accra White).  Rolled a few putts inside of 10 feet on the practice green before going in hot into a round with it.  Was a tail of two nines -- 20 putts on the front, including two 3-putts, vs. 15 putts on the back, including one 3-putt.  Left a lot of lag putts well short, as the heft of it had me a little gun shy, but I'll get used to it with time.  I knew it coming out of my fitting, that getting used to a new ball position (more forward) and eliminating the forward press trigger (due to the offset shaft design), would take some time.  The whole thing I'm looking for is more putts on line, speed will come with time.  In the meantime, I try to get out at least once every two days to do the clock drill from 3-feet: https://www.instagram.com/p/C7w931jK9eE/.  It's helping me to see the alignment of the putter face better as I adjust to the ball position, etc.  Early impressions are that I'm going to be very happy with it.

@CfhandymanSo question for the readers.  What does this represent?

A)  The back end of the L.A.B. DF2.1  

 

B)  A scenic drive from the Upper peninsula of Michigan to Atlanta

C)  A map of the north eastern US

D)  A scenic drive to visit all the testers involved in the L.A.B. DF3

Correct answer is D.

@GolfSpy MPR My testing is a bit limited this week, for two reasons:

We've been getting a lot of rain, and our course is not one of those much-desired, sandy-soiled, firm-and-fast places. The property is based a clay-based bowl. It's a marsh right now.  My wife is out of state, visiting her parents, and I'm here with five of our six children. You might imagine that this circumstance could cramp my putting testing time

@ole gray You better join the party hoss!  Mine should be arriving soon and I'm as excited as a fat hog on a dropped watermelon

@HikingMike  That looks like a DeChambeau setup to me

  

@jbern  think if I had that hat my swing speed might get close to his. Yes, I am a single plane golfer and Bryson is about as close as it gets to a single plane golfer on high profile tours. I did use several videos of Bryson to compare to my own videos when I was first working on the swing change to single plane!

@CFreddie Quick summary of yesterday's round today, specifically on the performance of Chewie.  Overall, I think his feelings are still a bit hurt as he struggled on some challenging greens at Windswept Dunes GC 

 But boy...doesn't Chewie look great???  

@CFreddie Thats correct - based on Arccos compare of a 13 handicap, they average 3 3-putts per round.  In comparison, I had 8, which I attribute to the challenging green complexes (very large with a ton of undulations).  I was definitely struggling with distance control (leaving a ton short) and then cleaning up those putts, equating a bunch of 3-putts.

@CFreddie Round #2 Update - complete 180 from yesterday's round, including setting a personal best in 3-putts (zero!) and total putts (32).  After yesterday's disastrous putting performance, I spent a lot more time on the putting green prior to the round - focusing on distance control & setup (I noticed I was pushing a lot of putts right yesterday).  Very happy with Chewie today - lets hope we are turning a corner..

    

@CFreddie Is this Chewie’s way of saying, all is forgiven for leaving me when you went on vacation.  I think one of the keys is getting some practice time on the greens with the L.A.B. and getting a feel for distance control.  Well done.

@Rearviewmirror My SG was awful due to short misses, but only 3 three putts (one of which was a horseshoe from 3ft). Lagging felt A+ and I didn't leave any long lag putts short of the hole (did ram one 8ft past though resulting in one of those three putts. 3-4ft putts were my kryptonite again today - with three hard horseshoes (including a birdie which was painful after sticking it to 3ft with an 8 iron). This was EXACTLY what happened to me with my Mezz before I got dialled in on the right mix of authoritative but not too hard. I think this is the right long term move, and for only two rounds in, I'm surprised it's starting to click this well already.

 

 

@MattWillGolf I’m happy to report another solid outing with the DF3. Today’s 9 hole round saw a total of 15 putts. It was made up of six 2-putts and three 1-putts. The one putts can thank my chipping with my 8 iron. Also I used the DF3 as a “Texas Wedge” on one of the holes. The distance control on longer putts is improving. I am absolutely in love with the feel of the putter. I have zero regrets on going with the BGT Stability ONE shaft. It pairs nicely with the DF3

@golfguy94 Question for the lab golf reviewers and anyone else who has completed the online remote fitting with LAB golf.  I got my specs yesterday after a week. Which was within their 5-7 business day guidelines.  The question(s) I have are as follows:

did they actually show you anything from your video submissions? Like the angle or where your eyeline is? I got an email response with about 2 sentences in it  basically do a shorter putter because eyeline is a little too far inside the ball and to use a standard lie angle at 69.  I emailed him back within like 30 mins of getting my email and it took almost a full day to get a response back, which was answering 2 quick questions that I had. Just seeing if this is normal or not because I got the feeling that your fittings were insightful and in depth to a degree.  
  When I’ve been fitter for a putter in the past, I’m normally around 33.5-34” and 71 in lie angle   They came back at 33 and 69.  Just thought I’d ask before I drop 600+ on a putter.  Thanks and I appreciate all your efforts in the reviews guys, they’ve been very insightful.

@Rearviewmirror I think this is a bit of a case of YMMV. I get the impression that there's been a fair bit of internal movement/promotion inside of LAB and as a result there's now folks doing full time fitting video replies. Again, not substantiated, but I get the impression it is more of a throughput machine now, with less "discussion".  My own experiences with the video fitting has been that they very much take your setup in the video as your preferred setup. What that means is, unless they see something horrendously egregious (think Tony Finau levels of lie angle) they will likely give you specs somewhat close to where you are today.

@CfhandymanThe response I received from L.A.B. was roughly what I expected (35.75", 68*).  They recommended, 35.5" and 69 degree lie.  I think one of the keys is to take your time with the fitting video you send them.  Have your golf shoes on, take the time to make your normal setup, record from the proper height and make your normal putting stroke.  i.e. don't rush it, the better the video, the more accurate the results. All in all, I would highly recommend it if you are considering purchasing a L.A.B. putter.  Short of getting a putter fitting on Quintic, it does provide useful information, particularly having the right lie angle

@jbern If you do purchase a LAB putter and aren't satisfied with the length or lie, is there a process/warranty for getting those items adjusted? I know that it would need to be done by the folks at LAB to ensure the L.A.B. is still correct, but I don't think that's a process that anyone in this testing group will go through.

@CFreddie Good question/ feedback - had similar experiences from @Cfhandymanand @jbern.  I did not get any video feedback, just a short write up of my specs with comments on my setup. We did have a good amount of back and forth due to my gamer being a bit too short, so I had to improvise and go to a local gold galaxy to reshoot with a longer putter. 

@jbern - on adjustments, LAB should be able to handle that, but I do know it has to be sent back to them (and is model dependent). Here is their page that talks about this process a bit more - https://labgolf.com/pages/repairs-warranty

@Rearviewmirror Hopefully not getting anyone in trouble (not sure if this was special treatment) but when I got my Mezz adjusted, they took care of the lie angle adjustment and fast shipping back to me, all I had to pay was shipping it back to them

@Steve F Ditto. As I had said in my earlier post: the Mamba is very "crisp".... the ball jumps right off the face compared to the Spider. It is definitely taken some adjusting to this lively putter! 

@jbern Best video

Overall, my lag putting performance has been pretty solid (except for that one in the video ). My confidence on those 6-12 foot putts just isn't there yet. I think I need to stop thinking about the putter and it's technology and just start stepping up and hitting the putt.

@Cfhandyman @jbern absolutely great job in recording Dory in action and editing.   That’s a lot of work. Well done

@jbernThank you @Cfhandyman! It was definitely more work than I expected. I'm not familiar with video editing, but one of my goals was to try to throw in some videos every now and then.

@RearviewmirrorThe editing was A++ - really well done. I feel like you could rival some YouTube golfers

@Rearviewmirror Overall it looks like you're stroking the ball well, and I think this is phase 2 of the untorqueing process (phase one is the short putt left/right yip pull/push phase). In my mind Phase 2 is real line vs torque influenced line, and distance control with a true roll. It looked from your videos like you were mostly long on uphill putts, and short on all downhill (missing low for your chosen line).

If you're ok with unsolicited internet advice.... A couple of thoughts (take it or leave it, I'm not a coach, but these were struggles I had when I first switched to LAB).

@jbern Not ok   just kidding! Thanks for the drills and especially the note about lifting my head on #5. That is something that I've always struggled with and used to practice holding my head and club in the finish position for a 3 count after hitting. At a minimum, I will definitely focus on that in my next practice session.

@Steve F Finally got an appointment with my local Club Champion this Friday. Also have some data to share from the last two weeks, coming soon! Very anxious to see the numbers from the SAM fitting 

@MattWillGolf Heading to Club Champion with Nemo for my session. More to follow.

@CFreddie New headcovers

    

 

@Rearviewmirror New headcovers! I’m partial to “Great Outdoors” one. Thoughts?

@Rearviewmirror I went for the Great Outdoors - thought it would look nice with the blue DF3  After 1.5hrs practicing 6-12ft putts at the practice green this morning I am hooked and think the Mezz might be up for sale soon.

@ejgaudette I agree that the Great Outdoors looks awesome!

@Steve F I like the "Great Outdoors" @CFreddie! That's a new one.... but I see that they have the Pimento and the plain LAB Rat ones back in stock..... and I'm starting a little drool on my work desk...

@GolfSpy_KFT The Great Outdoors headcover is absolutely fantastic!

@CfhandymanAs much as I like the Lab rats, the great outdoors one is really cool.  I might have to order that one

@Steve F Funny you should say that Chris @Cfhandyman.... I have the LAB rat in the cart... just have to pull the trigger! ... ugh!

@pagolfer I just bought the rat one.   Use this for 10% off.    BUSTAJACK10

@jbern This is awesome! Great concepts and glad they're offering more options! My favorite is the great outdoors one, but you have to admit that the LAB rat concept is genius!

@CfhandymanThen went to purchase new Lab rats headcover for the Lab rat, only to discover it's sold out for the DF3 after only a few hours. Wow, my first reaction, didn't they order enough or they must have sold a lot of them to be sold out within hours.  So maybe its the Great outdoors after all.

  

@Steve F Chris, I may have purchased the last one! Sorry my friend!! I had it in my cart for about an hour, finally pulled the trigger yesterday afternoon! 

@CfhandymanBlack on black for the headcover and good for you.  You know the old adage, you snooze, you lose.  In my case, I went golfing figuring I'd order it when I got home.  Wrong. 

@jbern I'm very surprised they sold out so quickly! I'm kind of impressed that they did, but bummed for you that you didn't get one!

@GolfSpy MPR Squeezed in a nice little practice session this afternoon. Because Arccos is very clear that my putting is hurting me most in the mid-range, I asked ExPutt to give me random putts between 5 and 20 feet. For these, I'm avoiding any technical or mechanical thoughts. In my mind, I have a fixed image of the hole at its distance. For the stroke, I'm just thinking about tempo: I step into the putt, inhale, then—"exhale 2 3 4"—where "2" initiates my backstroke, "3" the transition, and "4" is impact.

@GolfSpy MPR

I'm really enjoying using this 50-putt test as a practice routine. Again, my goal right now with the DF3 is really two-fold:

Don't miss inside 3 feet.

Make one 4'-15' putt per nine holes.

I strongly suspect that if I can meet those goals, I'll be very close to the Arccos scratch SG:Putting benchmark, which would be good enough for me (right now).

So in my first attempt at the 5'–20' random distance (straight) putts, I made 35/50. I wasn't sure if that was good. Turns out, it was pretty solid; I had two more attempts that I fell quite short of that.

But this morning, I had a really good session (above), making 42/50

@Cfhandyman What a great practice routine and goals.  That Ex putt looks like its quite a useful training tool.  Well done.

@Steve F So, last Thursday my boss walked in and once again asked if I had my clubs with me. (They are ALWAYS in my trunk, you just never know when someone will ask you to play golf!) We went to one of their local favorites, River Downs GC.    the Mamba was on fire... More data on the weekend rounds and practice to follow

@Cfhandyman Well done.  To all those who dare, beware the bite of the Mamba

@jbern Congrats on Mamba sinking those long ones! That is awesome! Sounds like things are really firing on all cylinders for you now! Since you blurred it out ... I'm curious if your scores have gotten better since using Mamba??

@MattWillGolf

I went to my session at Club Champion yesterday. It was a very good learning experience. The end result according to the SAM session and my fitter was the that the Evnroll ER11v was more suited to my putting style. But I am somewhat disappointed at the moment because the reports from the session which were emailed to me were incomplete. They were only of the Evnroll putter and not the DF3. I have emailed my fitter but he was out of the office today. Hopefully he can send the details for both putters

   

 

 

 Join us next week for the Week 8 summary

 

 

Edited June 9 by Cfhandyman

[MattWillGolf]

Today was a nice practice session with Nemo. I was taking advantage of time with the various putting aids from PuttOut. I also practiced without my thumbs on the grip to see if I can nail “the take manipulation” out of my putting stroke. It will take some further getting used to to be sure. 
 

Greenskeeper Note: I need to get the vacuum cleaner onto the putting mat. I may have putt a slight groove into it.

Edited June 9 by MattWillGolf

[Steve F]

Okay. So I had the opportunity to hit my Club Champion on Friday, thankfully prior to wrecking my calf! I am going to open by saying it was an eye opening experience. I have never been fit for a putter prior to this, so I was going in completely cold. Our Club Champion utilizes the SAM system. 

Mike Kohn, the store manager, master fitter and builder was kind enough to work with me. He was curious as to what I was up to with my request. We first hooked the Spider up to the SAM, and the results were interesting. He is still sending me those results, but from memory, the Spider gave me decent numbers in amount of rotation (was over 75%) and rotation consistency (again around 75%) with an overall consistency of slightly over 75%. All my Spider numbers were in the green. He asked me what type of putter I thought I was, and my reply was "Okay. This is my third season playing, and not having been fit I just attempt to do what I have learned from friends, our forum and internet 'lessons'". Something apparently is working a little bit!

Mike applying the gauge to the Spider. 

Applying the sensor to the Mamba: 

From talking to Mike, he's a putter, loves his putting and had a plethora of knowledge when it comes to putters. He measured both putters and had me address the ball as I always do. Then he made me stand over a putting mirror, which was the beginning of my real lesson. Line up the eyes on the line where the ball lies, shoulders on the back line and arms straight with the angle of the putter. One of my biggest issues, apparently, was my angle with my forearms and the angle of the putter shaft. I was creating a large angle there. I was also extending the index finger of my right hand down the putter shaft which is apparently a no-no! He helped me get a better setup at address and I do believe that it helped quite a bit! 

 

So, the Mamba numbers weren't as good as the Spider numbers. 

EVERYTHING with the Mamba from a specs standpoint was not nearly as good. Intrigued by the entire thing, Mike asked if I would try something. I was all ears.... let's have at it! He had a DF2.1 that was adjustable in every aspect and had me stand over the mirror again. Wow. Check out these fitting numbers. 

 

He had the shaft length down to 33" from the 35" I have on the Mamba and the lie angle at 77deg as compared to the 67deg I have on the Mamba. The results?

More consistent striking: note the lack of different contact points on the first graph: only three compared to the five with the Mamba. The one thing that was consistent throughout was the point of contact: I apparently am very consistent with where I contact the putter face each time. 

Mamba: 

DF2.1:

Note the lie angles as well. So, this was a complete eye opener for me and the reason I said in an earlier comment that I recommend highly having not only the online fitting done, but get to your local fitter so they can view and analyze in person everything about your stroke and your address. My takeaway from my fitting? I'm going to have to shorten the shaft by lowering my grip, which I have already started practicing. This will give me the angle (or lack thereof) between my forearm and the putter shaft that I need. I also need to address the ball more closely so that I am more over top of the ball than I am currently doing. The drawback? This is going to leave me with a slight toe down angle. 

My feelings about all this? I've got work to do. I've ordered a putting mirror which I found a huge help in the alignment aspect and am grateful for Mike showing me how it works. At the end of the whole thing, Mike did agree that the L.A.B. was the correct putter for me but that the setup wasn't ideal. I'm going to have to learn to adjust my address so that it is more consistent and proper form and let the putter do it's thing. It appears that for the time being, I'm going to be putting with a slightly toe down angle as it is where the putter lies when I'm at address in the correct position. 

 

Edited June 9 by Steve F

[Steve F]

Prior to my calf injury and during a rained out league night I was able to get to the practice green with the Mamba and the Spider and post up these numbers. From a putting standpoint the Mamba performed better in close while the Spider did a bit better from 7' and further. 

Lag putting from 20' and 40' it was literally a statistical dead heat: they matched each other stroke for stroke. 

These numbers post before my visit to Club Champion. Odd thing is, as I look at this video, my forearm and the putter shaft appear to be pretty darned close to in line... something I have to pay more attention to as I progress: proper set up and form that I can repeat for that consistency that I'm seeking!

 

 

Edited June 9 by Steve F

[Michael.Sandoval33]

3 hours ago, Steve F said:

I was also extending the index finger of my right hand down the putter shaft which is apparently a no-no!

I do this as well, did he happen to mention why this is a "no-no?"

[Steve F]

4 minutes ago, Michael.Sandoval33 said:

I do this as well, did he happen to mention why this is a "no-no?"

He did @Michael.Sandoval33. He said the tendency to give that little extra "correction" by pushing that finger to make a micro adjustment. It tends to make the travel, in my case, go left. Then you go trying to over compensate by aiming differently than you should. I did adjust and pull my index finger back up and lying the putter shaft down the life line of my left hand at the same time, instead of gripping the putter like an iron, which I was doing for sure. I practiced this several times, and while feeling a bit odd, I did notice a change in ball travel being more straight. 

I hope that helps! 

[Michael.Sandoval33]

52 minutes ago, Steve F said:

He did @Michael.Sandoval33. He said the tendency to give that little extra "correction" by pushing that finger to make a micro adjustment. It tends to make the travel, in my case, go left. Then you go trying to over compensate by aiming differently than you should. I did adjust and pull my index finger back up and lying the putter shaft down the life line of my left hand at the same time, instead of gripping the putter like an iron, which I was doing for sure. I practiced this several times, and while feeling a bit odd, I did notice a change in ball travel being more straight. 

I hope that helps! 

Okay, definitely makes a ton of sense. Going to have to break out the mat and give it a try. Thanks for the response!

[Steve F]

2 minutes ago, Michael.Sandoval33 said:

Okay, definitely makes a ton of sense. Going to have to break out the mat and give it a try. Thanks for the response!

@Michael.Sandoval33, my absolute pleasure! 

[jbern]

7 hours ago, Cfhandyman said:

Week 7 normal Summary

@Cfhandyman Well, it had to happen.  After a hot and great start with the L.A.B. DF3, it came back to earth yesterday.  Front nine was miserable with 19 putts in total, two 3 putts and only 1 putt.  Back nine, Lab rat  came back to life, 2 birdies, 14 putts, 4 one putts and no triples.  Overall, though, the L.A.B. has been quite impressive with approximately 0.5 gain in strokes gained versus the Evnroll over 9 rounds.

@ole gray Guys I ordered my DF3 on May 15th and received an email today May 30th that it was shipped!  Heck that makes me happier than a hawg drowning in a slop bucket. - Line of the week

@Rearviewmirror I may have a problem... I guess I'm joining as an (unofficial) tester. Big Red hasn't been quite so reliable (as mentioned above, 3 putts and leaving lags 7ft+ short have abounded), so when I saw that my local store had the blue DF3 in stock in my specs with the Accra shaft I couldn't pass up testing it out. After rolling it...

@jbern That's awesome that you're diving into the DF3 and I'm glad you're having initial success with it! I like your description of the sound as a ting, but muted. I have been having trouble coming up with descriptors for the sound.  Between the Mezz and the DF3, does ball position change since the shaft is farther behind the face of the DF3?

@Rearviewmirror I really like the face feel. I do wonder if the slightly more "positive" feel off the face is what is helping me on lag putting so far. I will be really interested to see how it compares on the course - playing a tough track on Tuesday so we will see how it goes.  I haven't markedly changed ball position - I tend to go for what feels natural, which tends to coincide with the tip of the shaft about central in my stance.

@MattWillGolf I had a better outing with Nemo this morning than last time out. Once again 9 holes. 19 putts in all. I had two 3-putts which were particularly galling due the distance, 1-2 footers.  I had six 2-putts. And One 1-putt. My six footers seem better than shorter distances for some reason. More time on the practice green is in order.  

@Bucky CC This statement is exactly how I feel about my recent purchase of the DF3.  I've had great results at home in a controlled environment, but my first time out on the course last night was terrible.  I don't think I made a single putt over 3 feet and lost strokes at every distance.  The DF3 feels different than any putter I've ever used.  I could see how it could be a magic wand in the hands of some people, but for others (including me) it's going to take a lot of work to get used the stroke type required to get the most out of the magic.

@GolfSpy MPR  Blech 

 

@Cfhandyman  

Mike’s (TXG fitter) recommendation: “Chris after watching you, seeing and evaluating the results, it is very clear and as a friend just put the L.A.B. in the bag and leave it there. It is so good for you.”

 So what makes the L.A.B. DF3 so good?. Here are my thoughts: It’s actually a combination of factors. One is the design and technology of lie angle balancing and returning the club face square to impact. Another contributing factor is the forward press grip. What I hadn’t realized with Scottie and Odyssey is that my hands were not forward while putting and it had an impact. Then the light went off in my head. Of course, the Evnroll and L.A.B. both had you with your hands forward. Mike recommended keeping the Evnroll to practice and train with as it keeps my hands forward by design.  Last piece of the puzzle is the shaft. The TPT shaft, like the stability are rigid and superb at preventing twisting.  So, when you take the head, centre shaft plus forward press grip, plus superb shaft, stiff and very low in torque and then balance it, you are left with something quite special.  In my hands, it’s the real deal and complete package.

Decision time: So after nine rounds of play which to date has shown a 0.5 stroke improvement in strokes gained (Arccos), as well as more one putts and birdies over the Evnroll AND putter testing on Quintic which demonstrated elite face control, the L.A.B. DF3 goes into the bag.  For now.  I say for now as I still want to get at least 20 rounds of data on the L.A.B. DF3 and then compare again.

@HikingMike Wow, that was amazing. Well done with that testing! It would be hard to argue with that, what, 72% better face angle?  Wait was face angle on the LAB 0.17 or 0.03?

@Cfhandyman The average for the L.A.B. was 0.03 with a minimum of -0.9 and a maximum of 0.75. The 0.17 degree face angle reading was the first putt with the L.A.B. DF3 where it basically threw down the gauntlet and said top this.  It was impressive. 

@HikingMike Oh hey I see the table image does have a standard deviation for face angle on those, “SD”. They are all quite close (LAB, Scotty, Odyssey) in standard deviation of face angle, with the Odyssey slightly tighter. Since the Odyssey’s average was more off, that shows the Odyssey must’ve  skewed one direction consistently. But they’re all very similar in SD, and with that, the LAB’s win in average face angle is confirmed impressive 

@Rearviewmirror It might be worth experimenting with ball position (a little forward or back in your stance) to see if that ups the consistency.

@jbern I agree! I’m hoping to let the technology shine over time and get things zeroed out more the more I get comfortable with the DF3. My goal is 1 degree or less. It’s not as easy as you’d think to be within 1 degree on every stroke.  From the Exputt path graphic, it looks like things will get squared out more if I move the ball position forward about half a ball. I’m going to start there with my ball position. I am right eye dominant, so the ball position is probably farther back in my stance than I think

@Rearviewmirror I think eye dominance plays a bigger role with ball position with LAB putters given the "square to the arc" design of the lie angle balancing. I've definitely seen big shifts in impact angle with relatively minor adjustments to setup

@GolfSpy MPR

@Rob Person What a week in LAB world!!!  Thanks for the updates @Cfhandyman

@Middler I just bought a DF3, but I won't pass judgement until I've played with it for at least 4-6 weeks. I've had two bad putting rounds with it, and two good ones so far - that's probably not much different than any other putter I've owned. I don't feel like I was guiding/manipulating my past putters, so I am not getting a night & day feel difference with the DF3 as some have reported - but only time will tell if I can just let the LAB concept works

@golfguy94 @Cfhandyman I'm curious on your thoughts regarding the alignment aid that you chose.  I'm going to order a LAB putter and I'm between a simple version like their B aid- straight line long and T.  or something similar to yours.  I think it could help in mid to short range but be too much on longer range putts. 

@CfhandymanL.A.B. Offers 30+ alignment aids, but I kept coming back to 2-3 designs. Then we found out that L.A.B. Also has the option for you to combine designs.  So our photo editing wizard, @jbern combined a few designs for us.  So I liked the simplicity of the T, (C), but kept coming back to the arrow (EE).  When combined (EE+C), I really liked how it looked and helps you focus.  On course it works very well. Make sure you do their online fitting to get correct length and lie angle.  I  hope that helps. 

@jbern If you're thinking about combining two alignment aids, let me know and I can mock them up for you. I still have the photoshop file saved so it goes quick! I actually combined 3 different alignment aids for my build (I, X and G). Enjoy the process!

@Middler I’ve read quite a few articles from owners who said it took them a long time to adjust to a LAB putter, to quit manipulating the putter like LAB says everyone has in the past. I’m fine with the DF3 I got, if it doesn’t work I’ll move on to something else.

@Rearviewmirror More that LAB offer free remote fitting, so you have nothing to lose to shoot them a video to confirm the fit. But yes - the torque hangover is real. For some it's weeks, others it's months!

@yungkory With how well received this test seems, I may have to order a DF3. The Link experiment is over now and the DF2.1 is back in the bag. Someone talk me out of a DF3

@GolfSpy MPR Not me.

@Rearviewmirror I'll get back to you in ~4hrs. I've gone through a Link, Mezz, and now DF3. Mezz I could feel the technology helping, Link didn't do much for me, DF3 feels like a magic wand so far but I want to see how it does over a full round.

@jbern Great news on the rib injury... I was able to play two 9 hole rounds recently (Thursday and yesterday) and I felt great during the round and just slight rib soreness post round. Big win for me and I'm free to get out as much as possible moving forward! I think between my two recent outdoor rounds, one previous outdoor round and a lot of time on the Exputt, I have enough time with the DF3 to provide my first impressions. That will be updated on the main testing post soon!

A one word summary of the DF3 during my two recent outdoor rounds: fine. I took some video of my putts during the round from Thursday and I'm trying to edit it to make it mildly viewable and that's taking a bit of time. I'll have my more detailed summary from those two rounds once I get that edited.

@MattWillGolf Glad to hear that your ribs are on the mend

@Swood1994 Likely has been stated somewhere in this thread but any of the testers going from a blade or mid-blade style putter to the DF3 what has been your biggest struggle and what do you see as the biggest advantage? I currently play a Scotty Squareback 2 and recently been toying with an odyssey 7s and the DF3 has been catching my attention due to this thread to switch to bigger mallet style putter.

@Cfhandyman Initial struggle was distance control, specifically putts coming up short. Realized I just need to take it back a little bit further.  Biggest advantage is the exceptional face control, however, you need a light grip and let the putter do it’s thing.  I.e. it will return to square by itself with a pendulum like stroke. So keep the hands quiet and try not to manipulate the face.  Hope that helps. 

@Rearviewmirror Bit of a painful first round with the DF3 in the bag, but it's going to be staying in the bag!

@matt_puttercup  I gave in and bought a DF3 recently from the LAB Outlet (Platinum 35"/69° Accra White).  Rolled a few putts inside of 10 feet on the practice green before going in hot into a round with it.  Was a tail of two nines -- 20 putts on the front, including two 3-putts, vs. 15 putts on the back, including one 3-putt.  Left a lot of lag putts well short, as the heft of it had me a little gun shy, but I'll get used to it with time.  I knew it coming out of my fitting, that getting used to a new ball position (more forward) and eliminating the forward press trigger (due to the offset shaft design), would take some time.  The whole thing I'm looking for is more putts on line, speed will come with time.  In the meantime, I try to get out at least once every two days to do the clock drill from 3-feet: https://www.instagram.com/p/C7w931jK9eE/.  It's helping me to see the alignment of the putter face better as I adjust to the ball position, etc.  Early impressions are that I'm going to be very happy with it.

@CfhandymanSo question for the readers.  What does this represent?

A)  The back end of the L.A.B. DF2.1  

 

B)  A scenic drive from the Upper peninsula of Michigan to Atlanta

C)  A map of the north eastern US

D)  A scenic drive to visit all the testers involved in the L.A.B. DF3

Correct answer is D.

@GolfSpy MPR My testing is a bit limited this week, for two reasons:

We've been getting a lot of rain, and our course is not one of those much-desired, sandy-soiled, firm-and-fast places. The property is based a clay-based bowl. It's a marsh right now.  My wife is out of state, visiting her parents, and I'm here with five of our six children. You might imagine that this circumstance could cramp my putting testing time

@ole gray You better join the party hoss!  Mine should be arriving soon and I'm as excited as a fat hog on a dropped watermelon

@HikingMike  That looks like a DeChambeau setup to me

  

@jbern  think if I had that hat my swing speed might get close to his. Yes, I am a single plane golfer and Bryson is about as close as it gets to a single plane golfer on high profile tours. I did use several videos of Bryson to compare to my own videos when I was first working on the swing change to single plane!

@CFreddie Quick summary of yesterday's round today, specifically on the performance of Chewie.  Overall, I think his feelings are still a bit hurt as he struggled on some challenging greens at Windswept Dunes GC 

 But boy...doesn't Chewie look great???  

@CFreddie Thats correct - based on Arccos compare of a 13 handicap, they average 3 3-putts per round.  In comparison, I had 8, which I attribute to the challenging green complexes (very large with a ton of undulations).  I was definitely struggling with distance control (leaving a ton short) and then cleaning up those putts, equating a bunch of 3-putts.

@CFreddie Round #2 Update - complete 180 from yesterday's round, including setting a personal best in 3-putts (zero!) and total putts (32).  After yesterday's disastrous putting performance, I spent a lot more time on the putting green prior to the round - focusing on distance control & setup (I noticed I was pushing a lot of putts right yesterday).  Very happy with Chewie today - lets hope we are turning a corner..

    

@CFreddie Is this Chewie’s way of saying, all is forgiven for leaving me when you went on vacation.  I think one of the keys is getting some practice time on the greens with the L.A.B. and getting a feel for distance control.  Well done.

@Rearviewmirror My SG was awful due to short misses, but only 3 three putts (one of which was a horseshoe from 3ft). Lagging felt A+ and I didn't leave any long lag putts short of the hole (did ram one 8ft past though resulting in one of those three putts. 3-4ft putts were my kryptonite again today - with three hard horseshoes (including a birdie which was painful after sticking it to 3ft with an 8 iron). This was EXACTLY what happened to me with my Mezz before I got dialled in on the right mix of authoritative but not too hard. I think this is the right long term move, and for only two rounds in, I'm surprised it's starting to click this well already.

 

 

@MattWillGolf I’m happy to report another solid outing with the DF3. Today’s 9 hole round saw a total of 15 putts. It was made up of six 2-putts and three 1-putts. The one putts can thank my chipping with my 8 iron. Also I used the DF3 as a “Texas Wedge” on one of the holes. The distance control on longer putts is improving. I am absolutely in love with the feel of the putter. I have zero regrets on going with the BGT Stability ONE shaft. It pairs nicely with the DF3

@golfguy94 Question for the lab golf reviewers and anyone else who has completed the online remote fitting with LAB golf.  I got my specs yesterday after a week. Which was within their 5-7 business day guidelines.  The question(s) I have are as follows:

did they actually show you anything from your video submissions? Like the angle or where your eyeline is? I got an email response with about 2 sentences in it  basically do a shorter putter because eyeline is a little too far inside the ball and to use a standard lie angle at 69.  I emailed him back within like 30 mins of getting my email and it took almost a full day to get a response back, which was answering 2 quick questions that I had. Just seeing if this is normal or not because I got the feeling that your fittings were insightful and in depth to a degree.  
  When I’ve been fitter for a putter in the past, I’m normally around 33.5-34” and 71 in lie angle   They came back at 33 and 69.  Just thought I’d ask before I drop 600+ on a putter.  Thanks and I appreciate all your efforts in the reviews guys, they’ve been very insightful.

@Rearviewmirror I think this is a bit of a case of YMMV. I get the impression that there's been a fair bit of internal movement/promotion inside of LAB and as a result there's now folks doing full time fitting video replies. Again, not substantiated, but I get the impression it is more of a throughput machine now, with less "discussion".  My own experiences with the video fitting has been that they very much take your setup in the video as your preferred setup. What that means is, unless they see something horrendously egregious (think Tony Finau levels of lie angle) they will likely give you specs somewhat close to where you are today.

@CfhandymanThe response I received from L.A.B. was roughly what I expected (35.75", 68*).  They recommended, 35.5" and 69 degree lie.  I think one of the keys is to take your time with the fitting video you send them.  Have your golf shoes on, take the time to make your normal setup, record from the proper height and make your normal putting stroke.  i.e. don't rush it, the better the video, the more accurate the results. All in all, I would highly recommend it if you are considering purchasing a L.A.B. putter.  Short of getting a putter fitting on Quintic, it does provide useful information, particularly having the right lie angle

@jbern If you do purchase a LAB putter and aren't satisfied with the length or lie, is there a process/warranty for getting those items adjusted? I know that it would need to be done by the folks at LAB to ensure the L.A.B. is still correct, but I don't think that's a process that anyone in this testing group will go through.

@CFreddie Good question/ feedback - had similar experiences from @Cfhandymanand @jbern.  I did not get any video feedback, just a short write up of my specs with comments on my setup. We did have a good amount of back and forth due to my gamer being a bit too short, so I had to improvise and go to a local gold galaxy to reshoot with a longer putter. 

@jbern - on adjustments, LAB should be able to handle that, but I do know it has to be sent back to them (and is model dependent). Here is their page that talks about this process a bit more - https://labgolf.com/pages/repairs-warranty

@Rearviewmirror Hopefully not getting anyone in trouble (not sure if this was special treatment) but when I got my Mezz adjusted, they took care of the lie angle adjustment and fast shipping back to me, all I had to pay was shipping it back to them

@Steve F Ditto. As I had said in my earlier post: the Mamba is very "crisp".... the ball jumps right off the face compared to the Spider. It is definitely taken some adjusting to this lively putter! 

@jbern Best video

Overall, my lag putting performance has been pretty solid (except for that one in the video ). My confidence on those 6-12 foot putts just isn't there yet. I think I need to stop thinking about the putter and it's technology and just start stepping up and hitting the putt.

@Cfhandyman @jbern absolutely great job in recording Dory in action and editing.   That’s a lot of work. Well done

@jbernThank you @Cfhandyman! It was definitely more work than I expected. I'm not familiar with video editing, but one of my goals was to try to throw in some videos every now and then.

@RearviewmirrorThe editing was A++ - really well done. I feel like you could rival some YouTube golfers

@Rearviewmirror Overall it looks like you're stroking the ball well, and I think this is phase 2 of the untorqueing process (phase one is the short putt left/right yip pull/push phase). In my mind Phase 2 is real line vs torque influenced line, and distance control with a true roll. It looked from your videos like you were mostly long on uphill putts, and short on all downhill (missing low for your chosen line).

If you're ok with unsolicited internet advice.... A couple of thoughts (take it or leave it, I'm not a coach, but these were struggles I had when I first switched to LAB).

@jbern Not ok   just kidding! Thanks for the drills and especially the note about lifting my head on #5. That is something that I've always struggled with and used to practice holding my head and club in the finish position for a 3 count after hitting. At a minimum, I will definitely focus on that in my next practice session.

@Steve F Finally got an appointment with my local Club Champion this Friday. Also have some data to share from the last two weeks, coming soon! Very anxious to see the numbers from the SAM fitting 

@MattWillGolf Heading to Club Champion with Nemo for my session. More to follow.

@CFreddie New headcovers

    

 

@Rearviewmirror New headcovers! I’m partial to “Great Outdoors” one. Thoughts?

@Rearviewmirror I went for the Great Outdoors - thought it would look nice with the blue DF3  After 1.5hrs practicing 6-12ft putts at the practice green this morning I am hooked and think the Mezz might be up for sale soon.

@ejgaudette I agree that the Great Outdoors looks awesome!

@Steve F I like the "Great Outdoors" @CFreddie! That's a new one.... but I see that they have the Pimento and the plain LAB Rat ones back in stock..... and I'm starting a little drool on my work desk...

@GolfSpy_KFT The Great Outdoors headcover is absolutely fantastic!

@CfhandymanAs much as I like the Lab rats, the great outdoors one is really cool.  I might have to order that one

@Steve F Funny you should say that Chris @Cfhandyman.... I have the LAB rat in the cart... just have to pull the trigger! ... ugh!

@pagolfer I just bought the rat one.   Use this for 10% off.    BUSTAJACK10

@jbern This is awesome! Great concepts and glad they're offering more options! My favorite is the great outdoors one, but you have to admit that the LAB rat concept is genius!

@CfhandymanThen went to purchase new Lab rats headcover for the Lab rat, only to discover it's sold out for the DF3 after only a few hours. Wow, my first reaction, didn't they order enough or they must have sold a lot of them to be sold out within hours.  So maybe its the Great outdoors after all.

  

@Steve F Chris, I may have purchased the last one! Sorry my friend!! I had it in my cart for about an hour, finally pulled the trigger yesterday afternoon! 

@CfhandymanBlack on black for the headcover and good for you.  You know the old adage, you snooze, you lose.  In my case, I went golfing figuring I'd order it when I got home.  Wrong. 

@jbern I'm very surprised they sold out so quickly! I'm kind of impressed that they did, but bummed for you that you didn't get one!

@GolfSpy MPR Squeezed in a nice little practice session this afternoon. Because Arccos is very clear that my putting is hurting me most in the mid-range, I asked ExPutt to give me random putts between 5 and 20 feet. For these, I'm avoiding any technical or mechanical thoughts. In my mind, I have a fixed image of the hole at its distance. For the stroke, I'm just thinking about tempo: I step into the putt, inhale, then—"exhale 2 3 4"—where "2" initiates my backstroke, "3" the transition, and "4" is impact.

@GolfSpy MPR

I'm really enjoying using this 50-putt test as a practice routine. Again, my goal right now with the DF3 is really two-fold:

Don't miss inside 3 feet.

Make one 4'-15' putt per nine holes.

I strongly suspect that if I can meet those goals, I'll be very close to the Arccos scratch SG:Putting benchmark, which would be good enough for me (right now).

So in my first attempt at the 5'–20' random distance (straight) putts, I made 35/50. I wasn't sure if that was good. Turns out, it was pretty solid; I had two more attempts that I fell quite short of that.

But this morning, I had a really good session (above), making 42/50

@Cfhandyman What a great practice routine and goals.  That Ex putt looks like its quite a useful training tool.  Well done.

@Steve F So, last Thursday my boss walked in and once again asked if I had my clubs with me. (They are ALWAYS in my trunk, you just never know when someone will ask you to play golf!) We went to one of their local favorites, River Downs GC.    the Mamba was on fire... More data on the weekend rounds and practice to follow

@Cfhandyman Well done.  To all those who dare, beware the bite of the Mamba

@jbern Congrats on Mamba sinking those long ones! That is awesome! Sounds like things are really firing on all cylinders for you now! Since you blurred it out ... I'm curious if your scores have gotten better since using Mamba??

@MattWillGolf

I went to my session at Club Champion yesterday. It was a very good learning experience. The end result according to the SAM session and my fitter was the that the Evnroll ER11v was more suited to my putting style. But I am somewhat disappointed at the moment because the reports from the session which were emailed to me were incomplete. They were only of the Evnroll putter and not the DF3. I have emailed my fitter but he was out of the office today. Hopefully he can send the details for both putters

   

 

 

 Join us next week for the Week 8 summary

 

 

Wow, another great summary from @Cfhandyman and what a busy week it was! 

[jbern]

6 hours ago, Steve F said:

Okay. So I had the opportunity to hit my Club Champion on Friday, thankfully prior to wrecking my calf! I am going to open by saying it was an eye opening experience. I have never been fit for a putter prior to this, so I was going in completely cold. Our Club Champion utilizes the SAM system. 

Mike Kohn, the store manager, master fitter and builder was kind enough to work with me. He was curious as to what I was up to with my request. We first hooked the Spider up to the SAM, and the results were interesting. He is still sending me those results, but from memory, the Spider gave me decent numbers in amount of rotation (was over 75%) and rotation consistency (again around 75%) with an overall consistency of slightly over 75%. All my Spider numbers were in the green. He asked me what type of putter I thought I was, and my reply was "Okay. This is my third season playing, and not having been fit I just attempt to do what I have learned from friends, our forum and internet 'lessons'". Something apparently is working a little bit!

Mike applying the gauge to the Spider. 

Applying the sensor to the Mamba: 

From talking to Mike, he's a putter, loves his putting and had a plethora of knowledge when it comes to putters. He measured both putters and had me address the ball as I always do. Then he made me stand over a putting mirror, which was the beginning of my real lesson. Line up the eyes on the line where the ball lies, shoulders on the back line and arms straight with the angle of the putter. One of my biggest issues, apparently, was my angle with my forearms and the angle of the putter shaft. I was creating a large angle there. I was also extending the index finger of my right hand down the putter shaft which is apparently a no-no! He helped me get a better setup at address and I do believe that it helped quite a bit! 

 

So, the Mamba numbers weren't as good as the Spider numbers. 

EVERYTHING with the Mamba from a specs standpoint was not nearly as good. Intrigued by the entire thing, Mike asked if I would try something. I was all ears.... let's have at it! He had a DF2.1 that was adjustable in every aspect and had me stand over the mirror again. Wow. Check out these fitting numbers. 

 

He had the shaft length down to 33" from the 35" I have on the Mamba and the lie angle at 77deg as compared to the 67deg I have on the Mamba. The results?

More consistent striking: note the lack of different contact points on the first graph: only three compared to the five with the Mamba. The one thing that was consistent throughout was the point of contact: I apparently am very consistent with where I contact the putter face each time. 

Mamba: 

DF2.1:

Note the lie angles as well. So, this was a complete eye opener for me and the reason I said in an earlier comment that I recommend highly having not only the online fitting done, but get to your local fitter so they can view and analyze in person everything about your stroke and your address. My takeaway from my fitting? I'm going to have to shorten the shaft by lowering my grip, which I have already started practicing. This will give me the angle (or lack thereof) between my forearm and the putter shaft that I need. I also need to address the ball more closely so that I am more over top of the ball than I am currently doing. The drawback? This is going to leave me with a slight toe down angle. 

My feelings about all this? I've got work to do. I've ordered a putting mirror which I found a huge help in the alignment aspect and am grateful for Mike showing me how it works. At the end of the whole thing, Mike did agree that the L.A.B. was the correct putter for me but that the setup wasn't ideal. I'm going to have to learn to adjust my address so that it is more consistent and proper form and let the putter do it's thing. It appears that for the time being, I'm going to be putting with a slightly toe down angle as it is where the putter lies when I'm at address in the correct position. 

 

Very interesting fitting experience! That is WILD that a 10* lie angle change was performing so well for you.
Did you happen to get a photo of the super adjustable DF 2.1? I’d be curious to see what it looks like. 

[Jim Shaw]

@Cfhandymangood morning, I played the second round of a tournament yesterday with this young fella, had to take a picture of him with his LAB putter, just for you buddy!! 

[Josh Parker]

18 hours ago, Steve F said:

Okay. So I had the opportunity to hit my Club Champion on Friday, thankfully prior to wrecking my calf! I am going to open by saying it was an eye opening experience. I have never been fit for a putter prior to this, so I was going in completely cold. Our Club Champion utilizes the SAM system. 

Mike Kohn, the store manager, master fitter and builder was kind enough to work with me. He was curious as to what I was up to with my request. We first hooked the Spider up to the SAM, and the results were interesting. He is still sending me those results, but from memory, the Spider gave me decent numbers in amount of rotation (was over 75%) and rotation consistency (again around 75%) with an overall consistency of slightly over 75%. All my Spider numbers were in the green. He asked me what type of putter I thought I was, and my reply was "Okay. This is my third season playing, and not having been fit I just attempt to do what I have learned from friends, our forum and internet 'lessons'". Something apparently is working a little bit!

Mike applying the gauge to the Spider. 

Applying the sensor to the Mamba: 

From talking to Mike, he's a putter, loves his putting and had a plethora of knowledge when it comes to putters. He measured both putters and had me address the ball as I always do. Then he made me stand over a putting mirror, which was the beginning of my real lesson. Line up the eyes on the line where the ball lies, shoulders on the back line and arms straight with the angle of the putter. One of my biggest issues, apparently, was my angle with my forearms and the angle of the putter shaft. I was creating a large angle there. I was also extending the index finger of my right hand down the putter shaft which is apparently a no-no! He helped me get a better setup at address and I do believe that it helped quite a bit! 

 

So, the Mamba numbers weren't as good as the Spider numbers. 

EVERYTHING with the Mamba from a specs standpoint was not nearly as good. Intrigued by the entire thing, Mike asked if I would try something. I was all ears.... let's have at it! He had a DF2.1 that was adjustable in every aspect and had me stand over the mirror again. Wow. Check out these fitting numbers. 

 

He had the shaft length down to 33" from the 35" I have on the Mamba and the lie angle at 77deg as compared to the 67deg I have on the Mamba. The results?

More consistent striking: note the lack of different contact points on the first graph: only three compared to the five with the Mamba. The one thing that was consistent throughout was the point of contact: I apparently am very consistent with where I contact the putter face each time. 

Mamba: 

DF2.1:

Note the lie angles as well. So, this was a complete eye opener for me and the reason I said in an earlier comment that I recommend highly having not only the online fitting done, but get to your local fitter so they can view and analyze in person everything about your stroke and your address. My takeaway from my fitting? I'm going to have to shorten the shaft by lowering my grip, which I have already started practicing. This will give me the angle (or lack thereof) between my forearm and the putter shaft that I need. I also need to address the ball more closely so that I am more over top of the ball than I am currently doing. The drawback? This is going to leave me with a slight toe down angle. 

My feelings about all this? I've got work to do. I've ordered a putting mirror which I found a huge help in the alignment aspect and am grateful for Mike showing me how it works. At the end of the whole thing, Mike did agree that the L.A.B. was the correct putter for me but that the setup wasn't ideal. I'm going to have to learn to adjust my address so that it is more consistent and proper form and let the putter do it's thing. It appears that for the time being, I'm going to be putting with a slightly toe down angle as it is where the putter lies when I'm at address in the correct position. 

 

10* difference is a huge number. 

[Cfhandyman]

43 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

@Cfhandymangood morning, I played the second round of a tournament yesterday with this young fella, had to take a picture of him with his LAB putter, just for you buddy!! 

Sweet photo.  Thanks for sharing Jim.

[Steve F]

13 hours ago, jbern said:

Very interesting fitting experience! That is WILD that a 10* lie angle change was performing so well for you.
Did you happen to get a photo of the super adjustable DF 2.1? I’d be curious to see what it looks like. 

I did not @jbern, but I will be going back and be sure to get pics of it!

[cnosil]

14 hours ago, jbern said:

Did you happen to get a photo of the super adjustable DF 2.1? I’d be curious to see what it looks like. 

 

 

 

[jbern]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

 

 

 

Thanks @cnosil! That is very interesting. The look and concept of the fitting putter is pretty neat! Do you or @Steve F know how they keep the L.A.B. to be set properly with all of the different changes the fitting club can provide? Or isn't that as important for the fitting portion? 

 

[cnosil]

3 minutes ago, jbern said:

Thanks @cnosil! That is very interesting. The look and concept of the fitting putter is pretty neat! Do you or @Steve F know how they keep the L.A.B. to be set properly with all of the different changes the fitting club can provide? Or isn't that as important for the fitting portion? 

 

Google is an amazing thing .   I don’t think it is about having the right balance, it is more about finding the correct lie angle…not any different than sending in a video but maybe a touch mor accurate.   Could also indicate that the “proper” balance really isn’t as important as a good setup.  

[Josh Parker]

7 minutes ago, jbern said:

Thanks @cnosil! That is very interesting. The look and concept of the fitting putter is pretty neat! Do you or @Steve F know how they keep the L.A.B. to be set properly with all of the different changes the fitting club can provide? Or isn't that as important for the fitting portion? 

 

That's a good question. Initially I thought well, maybe it wouldn't matter so much and it's just for getting the degree upright but with them making each one specific to weight and balance, I would think it could affect putting outcomes.