Callaway Claiming They Have Found The New Titanium

[GolfSpy_X]

Here is an ad Callaway will be pushing this year in magazines about their new RAZR HAWK Driver with forged composite technology. Their ad seems to claim that this will be what titanium was to the industry when it first came out.

[apples]

What are supposed to be the advantages of this new material?

[GolfSpy_X]

Well supposed to be lighter and stronger.

 

What are supposed to be the advantages of this new material?

[Moecat]

Didn't Mizuno already come up with a "hotter" and "lighter" titanium alloy in last year's MX-700 line of woods?

[GolfSpy Dave]

Wasn't this where magnesium came into the picture?

[jamo]

If by "forged composite" they mean carbon fiber, hasn't this been done? By them? I mean, carbon fiber is carbon fiber. Sure you can innovate it but wouldn't this revolution have been like 7 years ago?

 

I'm not materials engineer, but it would seem like if this breakthrough was carbon nanotubes that would be a revolution. But, from the Googling I've done, "forged carbon" seems to be a name that Callaway made up for a new process of making carbon fiber/composite.

[xxio]

I'm skeptical as well but saying carbon fiber is carbon fiber would be like saying all graphite shafts are equal. I'm not an expert but I would say that I feel the 4 weave shafts of today are superior over the graphite shafts of the early 2000s and that was not that long ago.

 

I just hope these newer Callaway composites stand up to reshafting better than the older FTs.

[Matt Saternus]

Meh. Not a Callaway guy, so I was never going to be excited about this one.

 

On a professional note, these are not going to be easy to sell (especially given what I believe the price point will be). You can knock TaylorMade all you want (and many of you do), but their key phrase is VISIBLE TECHNOLOGY. Show people how this will help them. Make it easy to sell. "Oh well, this is 5% lighter and stronger than titanium" offers no clear benefit to the average consumer, they're going to go with adjustable faces and weights every time.

[SPY ZINGER]

Meh. Not a Callaway guy, so I was never going to be excited about this one.

 

On a professional note, these are not going to be easy to sell (especially given what I believe the price point will be). You can knock TaylorMade all you want (and many of you do), but their key phrase is VISIBLE TECHNOLOGY. Show people how this will help them. Make it easy to sell. "Oh well, this is 5% lighter and stronger than titanium" offers no clear benefit to the average consumer, they're going to go with adjustable faces and weights every time.

I will respectfully disagree with you my friend. What has remained important in Callaway designs is the discretionary weight they are allowed to move around internally from the composite crowns. I will argue that while TM should be applauded for their advancements in MWT and FCT, I don't think you can compete with the ball speed, and distance/forgiveness from off center hits that Callaway continues to provide from their flagship products. Callaway has lacked in the 'tour van in a box' concept, no doubt. However, if you've ever had one build to exacting specs utilizing a clock sleeve, TM cannot compete on the launch monitor for distance/forgiveness on off center hits. For the average hack like me, that's the most important feature of the #1 stick.

[Matt Saternus]

I will respectfully disagree with you my friend. What has remained important in Callaway designs is the discretionary weight they are allowed to move around internally from the composite crowns. I will argue that while TM should be applauded for their advancements in MWT and FCT, I don't think you can compete with the ball speed, and distance/forgiveness from off center hits that Callaway continues to provide from their flagship products. Callaway has lacked in the 'tour van in a box' concept, no doubt. However, if you've ever had one build to exacting specs utilizing a clock sleeve, TM cannot compete on the launch monitor for distance/forgiveness on off center hits. For the average hack like me, that's the most important feature of the #1 stick.

 

Hmmm...that's very interesting. Personally, I have not seen these type of discrepancies on the LM (and not because I lack for off-center hits), but maybe I need to look again. What drivers have you had the best success with in this regard? My other big issue with Callaway has been the lack of a traditional hosel. I know the FT-Tour has one, but that's a fairly demanding club (from what I've read). I did enjoy hitting it at a demo day, but I had no LM to give data. Perhaps I'll have to sneak a few minutes with one in the shop today.

[SPY ZINGER]

Hmmm...that's very interesting. Personally, I have not seen these type of discrepancies on the LM (and not because I lack for off-center hits), but maybe I need to look again. What drivers have you had the best success with in this regard? My other big issue with Callaway has been the lack of a traditional hosel. I know the FT-Tour has one, but that's a fairly demanding club (from what I've read). I did enjoy hitting it at a demo day, but I had no LM to give data. Perhaps I'll have to sneak a few minutes with one in the shop today.

FT-9...Let me know the results!

 

That's FT-9 Tour (half lofts)

[Justin66]

I'm skeptical as well but saying carbon fiber is carbon fiber would be like saying all graphite shafts are equal. I'm not an expert but I would say that I feel the 4 weave shafts of today are superior over the graphite shafts of the early 2000s and that was not that long ago.

 

I just hope these newer Callaway composites stand up to reshafting better than the older FTs.

 

I think it's hype. Other than cosmetics (Megatron in the back of the sole as opposed to the rhombus they had previous) I doubt there's anything new and groundbreaking. As for shafts, some companies do use more expensive graphite for their shafts, but it doesn't effect playability- if you have two shafts and all their characteristics are the same except price tag, they'll play the same. This is per Tom Wishon, Frank Thomas, Ralph Maltby, Jeff Summitt, Jeff Sheets, GolfTec, Golsmith and Golfworks (the latter two independent of their respective fitting leaders). I've even tried contacting UST/Mamiya, True Temper (Grafalloy, True Temper and Project X), Graphite Design and Aldila... but haven't heard anything from them. Go figure, right?

 

There's something about this design that bugs me... We know more than likely it'll be 195-205 grams (give or take 2-3g, per tolerances); any heavier/lighter and it'll be unweildly (nearly fairway wood weight) for most individuals. But if that carbon-fiber between Megatron and the face is too light, that'll mean all that weight Megatron creates will raise the effective loft at impact, unless the face is made heavier by making it thicker, which would hurt its COR value. For a slower swinger who thinks they should use a 9-10* loft, that can be a good thing; but someone that honestly needs 9* to optimize their launch conditions can be done in with that higher effective loft, unless they go with an even lower static loft (this also assumes what's engraved on the sole is true... it isn't safe to assume a 9.5* is truly 9.5*). But what if the carbon-fiber is "normal", making Megatron's effect on effective loft negligible? We're right back to where we were with the other FT drivers. Also, what if the crown is superlight, but the sole isn't? Is there an increased risk for cracking/breaking (let's face it- those superlight car bodies are supposed to break away in accidents), say, on a nasty pop-fly to right-center field?

[JohnBarry]

Always willing to test it out, but I reserve all judgement until it passes my "Better than my G15" test.

[Xamilo]

Always willing to test it out, but I reserve all judgement until it passes my "Better than my G15" test.

 

Indeed. You can't say anything until you test it, but sincerely, I ain't thinking its going to turn a lot of head on looks or Performance compared to this year Drivers...

[fozcycle]

It's got to pass the "Better than the Powerbilt Air Force One" test to be worthy of a hefty price.

[dustinclyde]

I spoke with a Callaway sales rep at a demo day. He showed me the new octane driver head that was hidden in his bag. He told me about this new forged composite material and it is not just carbon fiber. Basically they have come with a several materials that are layered and they have a process that makes it easier and more precise so they can make the shell a lot thinner while maintaining the strength. He also told me that this new rzr driver that is coming out doesn't beat the FT-IZ he said that is and will be their best driver on the market and will be for some time, unless they do the forged composite process on the FT-IZ which probably will happen.

[Justin66]

I spoke with a Callaway sales rep at a demo day. He showed me the new octane driver head that was hidden in his bag. He told me about this new forged composite material and it is not just carbon fiber. Basically they have come with a several materials that are layered and they have a process that makes it easier and more precise so they can make the shell a lot thinner while maintaining the strength. He also told me that this new rzr driver that is coming out doesn't beat the FT-IZ he said that is and will be their best driver on the market and will be for some time, unless they do the forged composite process on the FT-IZ which probably will happen.

 

It'll be the "best" until a new model comes along. It's always that way. They wouldn't be able to push their product if they marketed it as being on par with, say, the FT-3... it's ALWAYS going to be longer, straighter and better, regardless if it's true or not. But it isn't just Callaway, it's all of them.

[shopgolfzone.com]

However, if you've ever had one build to exacting specs utilizing a clock sleeve,

 

Hi, what is a clock sleeve?

[SPY ZINGER]

Hi, what is a clock sleeve?

It allows you to adjust the face angle +/- 2 degrees opened or closed. They are only available through the Callaway Tour department. However, you can purchase an aftermarket version from Billy Bobs that work just the same.

[ninjacobra]

i've hit the megatron, i honestly dont think its tt different from the ft 9. maybe 2.5%?

[nation]

If I had to guess, "forged composite" is simply compression molded chopped carbon sheet molding compound.

 

It's basically plastic reinforced with randomly oriented chopped up carbon fiber strands.

 

The biggest advantage of this material is that it's cheap. It's been used in automotive and other applications for years. The corvette has had wheelhousings and floor panels made from it since 2005. The first car to use it was the Viper in 2003.

 

It's not going to be as strong as a well-engineered compression-molded woven carbon fiber lay-up of the same mass, or as light as an equivalent strength woven carbon fiber lay-up, but it's going to do the job for the low stress areas of the club they're using it on. And it's cheaper than Ti, so I'm sure it works out really well for them.

[reg]

Bad marketing, no explanation of what forged composite does, or its advantages. I don't get the point, neither will most people. Appears no difference to what they've been doing since the ft-3. Just in a worse looking club, the Razor Hawk looks awful, Octane looks good.

 

When fusion came out they explained it, the technology made sense. This is just...... what? To me it's the same technology that they have tried to make out (unsuccessfully) like it's some amazing new breakthrough.

[akinoon13]

it's simple, only for lower and lower cost. Lay-up materials caused more and labors...labors also means money....

[akinoon13]

it's simple, only for lower and lower cost. Lay-up materials caused more and labors...labors also means money....

[Justin66]

Why do they say "Titanium is dead" and not "the stuff we used to make is dead"? Because it'd be a lie. OEMs wouldn't do that to you, would they? No..... LOL.

[nation]

Why do they say "Titanium is dead" and not "the stuff we used to make is dead"? Because it'd be a lie. OEMs wouldn't do that to you, would they? No..... LOL.

Ti is not dead. That's why it's still on the face and the first inch of shell behind the face. But the rest, which sees magnitudes less stress, is plastic. Cool looking plastic, but still plastic. Don't get me wrong, it's lightweight and stiff, and gives them excellent weight budget per dollar... but it's still plastic.

[Justin66]

Ti is not dead. That's why it's still on the face and the first inch of shell behind the face. But the rest, which sees magnitudes less stress, is plastic. Cool looking plastic, but still plastic. Don't get me wrong, it's lightweight and stiff, and gives them excellent weight budget per dollar... but it's still plastic.

 

 

I know, but that's what Callaway's new ad line is: "Ti is dead". As in, Ti for the crown compared to their more improved, 27.2345% better/lighter/stronger/more handsome/gets more chicks carbon composite... that they've used since the FT-3. Which is what I'm griping about: the Lamborghini-inspired (I still chuckle at that) carbon crown has been panned pretty heavily here. Their first true ad (not the blog post that was posted a few weeks ago here) changed directions and went with the "death of Ti" line instead of their "newer and improveder" usual schtick.

[ForeLeftPGA]

If I had to guess, "forged composite" is simply compression molded chopped carbon sheet molding compound.

 

It's basically plastic reinforced with randomly oriented chopped up carbon fiber strands.

 

The biggest advantage of this material is that it's cheap. It's been used in automotive and other applications for years. The corvette has had wheelhousings and floor panels made from it since 2005. The first car to use it was the Viper in 2003.

 

It's not going to be as strong as a well-engineered compression-molded woven carbon fiber lay-up of the same mass, or as light as an equivalent strength woven carbon fiber lay-up, but it's going to do the job for the low stress areas of the club they're using it on. And it's cheaper than Ti, so I'm sure it works out really well for them.

Good guess, but not quite correct.

Rather than laying up carbon fiber in sheets and impregnating it with resin like your typical carbon fiber manufacturing, Forged Composite uses a paste of fibers (500,000 turbostratic fibers per square inch) mixed with resin that is squeezed out to make almost any shape. Since the fibers aren't oriented in any particular direction, the finished part is strong in EVERY direction, while remaining light. So you have something that is stronger, yet uses less material and weighs less. Also, no plastic is used...

This process is new and has not been used before in any other sports car or golf equipment. The process and the material itself was developed this year at U-Dub...