Poll: What are aftermarket shafts worth to you?

[Middler]

I just went through a driver fitting and the new driver would have cost me $900+, and the fitter had me try shafts that would have taken it to $1100+. So it was roughly double the cost of a stock driver. I suspect you could easily spend double the cost of a stock set of woods, irons and wedges on a custom fitted set with premium aftermarket shafts.

Based on that assumption — Would you rather have a whole new set of clubs with OEM stock shafts every two years OR a whole new set of clubs with (superior) fitted premium aftermarket shafts every four years?

I ask after listening to this weeks NPG. When the topic came up I assumed it would be boring, it was actually very interesting to me.

[null]

Give me properly fitted shafts no matter the cost, even if that means switching less frequently. 

OEM shafts might fit a good amount of people. Cost shouldn't matter if it fits. And everyone should be able to find at least a semi decent fit within their budget 

[cnosil]

The only problem with the question is the assumption that premium shafts double the price of clubs.  You also don't have to buy clubs from the Club Champions of the world and save some money.   Additionally you can pick manufacturers that have lots of no cost upgrade standard shafts.  

When I did my fitting,  my Driver shaft was a $100 upgrade and my irons were stock.  

[Middler]

38 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The only problem with the question is the assumption that premium shafts double the price of clubs.  You also don't have to buy clubs from the Club Champions of the world and save some money.   Additionally you can pick manufacturers that have lots of no cost upgrade standard shafts.  

When I did my fitting,  my Driver shaft was a $100 upgrade and my irons were stock.  

You’re missing the point. Whether it’s double or not wasn’t the point, there’s a significant upcharge for premium aftermarket shafts. You could easily spend double, more or less. Would you pay the upcharge for premium custom aftermarket shafts or upgrade with stock shafts more often - at equal the long run cost?

You aren’t getting premium shafts with any OEM club without paying a substantial premium. I’d read it before, and if you listen to today’s NPG, the stock OEM shafts aren’t the same quality as the aftermarket shafts they often resemble or mimic. It’s a deliberate marketing ploy used by shaft makers to confuse golf consumers.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Frequency doesn’t matter to me. I tend to buy clubs because I want to play something new/different even if there is no improvement in launch characteristics, distance or dispersion. I get fit to some extent for 99% of my clubs.  I also like to tinker with shafts in my woods and hybrids. 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 minute ago, Middler said:

Whether it’s double or not wasn’t the point, there’s a significant upcharge for premium aftermarket shafts. I’d read it before, and if you listen to today’s NPG, the stock OEM shafts aren’t the same quality as the aftermarket shafts they often resemble or mimic. It’s a deliberate tactic used by shaft makers to confuse golf consumers.

Quality in materials or quality in qc? 

[Middler]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Quality in materials or quality in qc? 

Yes both, listen or watch NPG. They’re not the first to break the news.

[dlow206]

I am a tinkerer and waste money on my tinkering hobby. 

However, I don't think I have ever paid MSRP for an aftermarket shaft, so I am not paying as much of a premium.

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, Middler said:

Yes both, listen or watch NPG. They’re not the first to break the news...

Having been to two shaft manufacturers one of which makes both stock and aftermarket they use the same people and process for all their shafts the only difference being in the materials used. The aftermarket shaft just uses more expensive materials in some of the shaft where as the stock offering uses lower cost materials.

A couple examples PX handcrafted shafts were made by 5 people and they could only produce a small number of shafts per day. The same shaft in non hc was made in a factory by numerous amount of people working over the course of 24 hours/day thus able to produce thousands/day. 
PX T1100 shaft isn’t made with the t1100 prepreg in every layer because it would be too expensive and too brittle, so they use different materials in the design and some of it may be a lot lower costing materials. 
 

Most brands don’t have a special department making their high end shafts and a different one making the stock shaft. 
 

Outside of the ventus velocore and the ones in TM and Tour Edge the rest of the stock shafts that are made for have either a different name and or different paint scheme. Example Fuji has the atmos blue as stock and atmos blue tour spec for aftermarket. Similar name but enough distinction that it’s not that misleading.

Yes the quality of materials will be different but built in the same place.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

Yes both, listen or watch NPG. They’re not the first to break the news.

They didn’t specify either. Chris referenced potentially lower quality and Adam said lower quality when talking costs of shafts. The conversation was focused on the materials so it’s not going to be about the qc and I am pretty confident in that guess and that it was about the materials.

Its not really a quality issue between the made for and after market. The materials used are just different costs. The manufacturers in the r&d can come up with a design that utilizes the lower cost materials to produce a shaft that performs well and holds up to long term use and for many golfers will perform as good if not better than the real deal. 
 

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

You’re missing the point. Whether it’s double or not wasn’t the point, there’s a significant upcharge for premium aftermarket shafts. You could easily spend double, more or less. Would you pay the upcharge for premium custom aftermarket shafts or upgrade with stock shafts more often - at equal the long run cost?

You aren’t getting premium shafts with any OEM club without paying a substantial premium. I’d read it before, and if you listen to today’s NPG, the stock OEM shafts aren’t the same quality as the aftermarket shafts they often resemble or mimic. It’s a deliberate marketing ploy used by shaft makers to confuse golf consumers.

Yes,  there is an upcharge for premium shafts and yes you can spend significant money to get a premium shaft.  You area apparently only referring to graphite shafts also.   KBS Tour iron shafts are KBS Tour Iron shafts;  for some manufacturers it is an upgrade and for some it is a stock offering.  My point was aftermarket graphite shafts aren't always double the price.  The shaft I was fit into at Club Champion was a Fujikura Vista Pro 55 stiff;   It can be purchased with Grip and adapter for $95.       

Graphite stock shafts may or may not be the same as the shaft with the same name;  the Ventus with or without velocore was one of the examples in the episode.   As you stated,  the issue discussed on NPG was that the shafts are painted the same except for the small word "velocore" painted on the shaft which leads people to believe that they are purchasing the aftermarket shaft.   That doesn't mean that the  stock shafts aren't "premium" or that aftermarket are superior.  The purpose of fitting is to help you choose a shaft;  within your budget,  that helps improve performance.  For people that are golf junkies this isn't a new topic.  For people that aren't club junkies,  it is a 100% marketing ploy.  But this topic isn''t what you asked about;  you asked where do I want to spend my money.  

[storm319]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Having been to two shaft manufacturers one of which makes both stock and aftermarket they use the same people and process for all their shafts the only difference being in the materials used. The aftermarket shaft just uses more expensive materials in some of the shaft where as the stock offering uses lower cost materials.

A couple examples PX handcrafted shafts were made by 5 people and they could only produce a small number of shafts per day. The same shaft in non hc was made in a factory by numerous amount of people working over the course of 24 hours/day thus able to produce thousands/day. 
PX T1100 shaft isn’t made with the t1100 prepreg in every layer because it would be too expensive and too brittle, so they use different materials in the design and some of it may be a lot lower costing materials. 
 

Most brands don’t have a special department making their high end shafts and a different one making the stock shaft. 
 

Outside of the ventus velocore and the ones in TM and Tour Edge the rest of the stock shafts that are made for have either a different name and or different paint scheme. Example Fuji has the atmos blue as stock and atmos blue tour spec for aftermarket. Similar name but enough distinction that it’s not that misleading.

Yes the quality of materials will be different but built in the same place.

Per Don Brown, the HC shafts were produced by a handful of employees in San Diego while production of the non-HC was outsourced to China. Materials and design were 100% the same (minus the HC stamp and paint) in those examples with the cost savings being realized in labor, volume efficiency, and possibly a bit more relaxed post-production qc (aka wider tolerances to reduce scrap waste). Ultimately some OEMs produce all shafts in the same facility with material / volume / R&D recoup being the primary cost factors while some OEMs additionally outsource production to another location to reduce on labor costs / increase capacity for their OEM offerings. 

Also when it comes to quality, many people mistake higher modulus/tensile strength materials as higher quality which is not necessarily the case. Quality really is the relative consistency to spec for a component or final product.

Ultimately Adam’s statement in the last episode was spot on that the shaft OEMs tend to benefit more from consumer confusion than clarity around this subject. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 hours ago, storm319 said:

Per Don Brown, the HC shafts were produced by a handful of employees in San Diego while production of the non-HC was outsourced to China. Materials and design were 100% the same (minus the HC stamp and paint) in those examples with the cost savings being realized in labor, volume efficiency, and possibly a bit more relaxed post-production qc (aka wider tolerances to reduce scrap waste). Ultimately some OEMs produce all shafts in the same facility with material / volume / R&D recoup being the primary cost factors while some OEMs additionally outsource production to another location to reduce on labor costs / increase capacity for their OEM offerings. 

Also when it comes to quality, many people mistake higher modulus/tensile strength materials as higher quality which is not necessarily the case. Quality really is the relative consistency to spec for a component or final product.

Ultimately Adam’s statement in the last episode was spot on that the shaft OEMs tend to benefit more from consumer confusion than clarity around this subject. 

I’ve seen Don say that on every forum as well as heard it straight from his mouth while visiting PX HQ. Now pretty much every shaft from PX is made in their Chinese factory. 
 

While I agree there is some consumer confusion we on forums tend to forget many consumers don’t care and don’t get fit either. Most people only care about the flex and loft of their driver based on their perception of swing speed and need. Most people can only tell you that they play X driver with Y flex shaft. Some might be able to tell you the name of their shaft and as the survey showed most don’t the manufacturer of their shaft and don’t care. 

[juspoole]

You mainly hear tighter tolerances, but I'm just not sure.  Until my latest shaft that I've had roughly 1 1/2 years, I've always played the made for shafts and honestly mostly looked at the stiffness and weight up until about 5 years ago when I got smarter.  It's similar with what you see on "pureing the shafts", there is so much speculation as to if they will truly help your game or not.  

I feel like I'd notice such a minimal difference if play-ability and performance in my overall game paying for the aftermarket version so I'd rather be properly fitted more often to play equipment that is supposedly more forgiving and "better".  However, I'm not sure I believe newer is really better at times.

[Grit Golf]

I think the poll is a false dichotomy, but I get the point. And I do think the right shaft, whether aftermarket, free upgrade, or OEM offering is super important.

I've never bought a new iron set, but have bought a few individual clubs new here and there. I usually buy the club(s) I want lightly used with a senior or sometimes ladies flex (always cheaper on eBay) and put what I want in.

Good example, I just snagged Mizuno 919 forged on eBay for $379 that had ladies flex Tensei. Pulled the tenseis out, listed them for $80, and threw in C tapers that I pulled from my last set before I sold it. $300 and some shipping all in to get exactly what I wanted in a mint set.