Do I Really Have to Pay $1200+ ?

[IndyBonzo]

I need new irons, and am contemplating a Club Champion fitting to move up from my current game improvement irons, definitely not to blades but into something approaching a player's iron and more workable.  I had a great experience getting fitted for woods at CC, so this is not a complaint about them.

Rather, prices on new irons with the custom shafts I will need are absurd.  

I have read enough of this forum to know that there are good options from companies like Maltby (if I found a reputable builder locally) and DTC from Hogan, Sub70, etc., and probably good options in the used market too.  But - and here's my question - how do I translate my CC fitting into any of those options, and can I retain the same likelihood that I will be pleased with the end results if I go with something other than the clubs into which I am fitted?

I may just have to bite the bullet and pony up the big dough. 

I welcome thoughts and suggestions, and thank you in advance.  

[cnosil]

Here are my thoughts.   Yes CC is expensive and some people think they are great and some think they are terrible but that’s not the point.  You have indicated in your profile that you are a 12 so I will assume you have decent ball striking ability from the standpoint that you generally get the ball in the air but maybe have a wider dispersion pattern than you want.   

• If you go to CC, communicate a budget or that you want to stay with the more mainstream shafts like KBS, Nippon, True Temper, Project X, etc.  this will potentially keep you in the lower cost shafts that are available as stock across most club brands. 
• Gain knowledge on fitting and do something at a big box store where you compare your clubs with stock offerings.  See what feels and performs better on their launch monitors.  
• take the results of these and communicate with the team at Sub70 or Maltby and see what they indicate might be similar.
• shop the used club marketplace based on what you learned and wait until you find what you are looking for.  If your clubs aren’t broken you probably don’t have to have them now.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

Simple answer is no.

You can tell your CC fitter what your budget is or that you want stock shaft options only. If they won’t accommodate you then go somewhere else. You can get fit by CC for stock options then buy directly from the OEM

Another option is go to a OEM fitting day and get fit there and then order from them that day.

Another option is Sub70 and some other companies do virtual fittings.

What a fitting does is let you know what works for you with certain clubs, what kind of club you need. What is hard to say is if you get fit into let’s say p790 with modus 120 stiff, will that carry over to Ping i230 or G series, or Sub70 699, etc

[Kansas King]

You don't need a Club Champion type fitting to be fit well. Find a golf shop that doesn't charge for fittings. They typically use Mizuno Shaft Optimizers and SkyTraks which are perfectly adequate for a solid fitting. They will also probably only have a limited selection of stock shafts which is what you probably want. Generally speaking, you're going to find a good fitting shaft amongst the stock DG, KBS, and PX shafts. Just try to look up some information on what launch angle, peak height, and spin numbers you want to see for your swing speed. Keep in mind that spin and height can be a game of give and take. Generally all golf shops are going to have a few people on staff that know what they are looking for on their launch monitor. 

If you're looking to save money, you might also look at the used market and see what shafts are typically available in the clubs you want. Let's say you like the Mizuno 919 or 921 irons. Look at 2nd Swing, Global Golf, etc. and see what shafts they typically use for the head you're interested in and then make sure to try those shafts at some point in your session on the launch monitor. Going used isn't always the easiest route but it can save you 30% to 50% on clubs.

I will also note that if you can find a local golf shop that does free fittings, you might get lucky and find prior model year sets at pretty deep discounts. My local shop had a couple sets of Mizuno 921 Tours on sale at $800. Unfortunately, they weren't in the shaft I needed but you never know. 

Good luck shopping! My ultimate recommendation is start with the cheapest options first then progressing towards a CC fitting if needed. I would also recommend looking for alternatives to CC if they are available. There are independent shops that offer similar services for similar prices that I would be more inclined to give my money to instead of CC.

[Bossfan]

Not sure where you live but Sub 70 does fittings at their home location and they have quite a few places to get fit in various places. I’d shoot their CS an email and see what they can do for you. 

[GolfSpy SAM]

I'm also a 12 (though not judging by today's play - yikes), and I recently had a fitting (at True Spec) that was super helpful. The fitting was not cheap, but it was a gift from my family, so it was free to me. That being said, I believe an iron fitting  could be  worth it for you. It guided me to a shaft/head combo that felt awesome (ZX5-II + Project X IOs 5.5, neither of which I would have assumed if be a good match to prior). Using THAT info, I was able to do a little comparison shopping/Googling. I found the Maltby TS-3 (forged cavity back), and decided to try two out (6 & 9), and directly compare them to my Sim Max (v1)'s. 

I built them myself (something I didn't know I could do until I found a bunch of people on the forum who had experience), using temp (read: "cheap") shafts to see if the iron head and I could be friends. Today was my first outing with them, and although it wasn't an ABSOLUTE match (distance isn't the same as a hollow-bodied iron, I'd need one more iron to fill out the set because of the weaker lofts), they're pretty extraordinary. And at $68/club, it's a cheap way for me to test them

I'm saying all this, essentially, to encourage you to do the iron fit. Once you find a head/shaft combo you groove with, you can absolutely take that to a PXG/Sub-70/Maltby (btw, Golfworks.com will build your Maltby irons however you want - you definitely don't HAVE to build them), and they'll build out your set for a considerable savings. (ie, my PX IO 5.5 are $55/shaft at GW, the heads are $55 as well. They MAY charge a few $$ to build, but all told, $110/stick is a GREAT price for a forged head; Sub-70 has the new 699-Pro available with the PX IO for a small upcharge - but I think the whole set (assembled and shipped) is like $770-ish - and they also do a demo-set with a 6&9-iron for (net) $20).

Basically, I'd suggest using the iron fitting as a springboard and go from there. There are SO many amazing non-big-OEM options, I would not, at this point, over-pay for something I feel I can match at a lower price. 

That being said: the day I win the Lotto, all this is going out the window and I'm going to TXG and buying whatever Ian fits me into

Good luck, and baby can't wait to hear what you decide!

[ballhawk]

Check out Giga Golf, they have a fitting process and the clubs they offer are quality at really affordable prices. Could be worth a look......... 

[RichL85]

 

On 3/3/2023 at 7:01 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

What a fitting does is let you know what works for you with certain clubs, what kind of club you need. What is hard to say is if you get fit into let’s say p790 with modus 120 stiff, will that carry over to Ping i230 or G series, or Sub70 699, etc

I think this is a point that is often overlooked. I've gone through a few different fittings over the last year, mostly at Oem demo days and based on the head I was fit into for irons, I've been put into Modus3 120s, DG 120s, and KBS Tour 120s. Now obviously these are all similar weight characteristics, but they are all just a little different and they match up to different heads a little bit better. When I finally purchased, I went with the KBS in my PXG irons. The Modus shafts were the better fit when I tried the Mizuno 225s and 923 HMPs, and the DG worked better in one of the Callaway heads (I forget which one).

Realistically, I could play either of the 3 shafts in any number of heads and get solid results, but if the goal is really to optimize everything, then that interaction between the head and shaft is important. Is that extra little certainty that you have the shaft and head combo that works best worth the cost of a CC fitting? That's not for me to decide. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by RichL85

[IndyBonzo]

Many great ideas here.  Thank you!

I am taking a stepped approach here.  First, I ordered a couple 7 irons from Giga Golf to try.  With their return policies, there is little risk.  And they may be perfect!

I am also going to try some demo days.  

If all that fails, I will go forward with a CC or similar fitting.

I appreciate all the helpful input!

[cksurfdude]

7 hours ago, IndyBonzo said:

First, I ordered a couple 7 irons from Giga Golf to try. 

Good plan, but I was gonna agree with all the posts above that said do the fitting - and importantly NOTE *YOUR* SPECS! 

..and not just, eg, +½ in and +1 upright...

..you need the absolute numbers; the exact loft / length / lie angle of the iron head .. along with the weight and flex of the shaft .. and then when you can shop you can customize and get what *you* need.

Anyway good luck with your tests!

[Stuka44]

On 3/3/2023 at 9:21 AM, IndyBonzo said:

I need new irons,

I did see your subsequent post, but my first clarification would be do you "need" new irons, or do you "want" new irons.  What is that your current irons do not do for you?   In regards to your second post.  I played with a set of irons I purchased from Giga Golf for 10 years, from about 25-15 years ago.  They were absolutely fine, and I never had any issues with craftsmanship or anything.  I in fact still use a 3W, 2H, and 3H from Giga Golf that I purchased 12 years ago for $37 a piece (including shipping and handling).

I am just trying to work this out.  Most of the time, as the responses you've received indicate, people either believe that "fitted clubs", (now pre-emptively I'm qualifying this statement to exclude people being "fitted" to the extent of making sure their clubs are not too long or short for them) are either almost essential to play this game well, or they aren't.    As a 12 handicap, and I at the present time am probably the same as you, someone who shoots in the mid to low 80's regularly, and on those good days gets into the high 70's, and on those days when the planets align maybe you have a 73 or 74 at one of the easier courses you play. So my original question I think is still primary.  What is it you "need" new, potentially expensive, irons to do.  At a 12 handicap, like me, you have a pretty good grasp of the game, and play at a  level, to know our bad scores come from, not practicing enough, bad execution(from not practicing), or bad decisions, not inferior, or "unfit" equipment.   My suggestion is that you make a firm decision on what you believe a Club Champion type fitting means to your game.  You suggest that your translating your fitting to Sub 70 etc, may not give you the feeling your looking for, and hence doubt the purchase in the long run, which could possibly lead to more expense actually.  

Just for clarity I am a Non-fitting, non expensive club guy, unless like me in 2019, you buy a set of Mavrik Pros as a retirement gift to yourself, because I WANTED them, and unless they break, they will be the last set of clubs I buy.  Giga Golf I have used, I'm sure sub 70, and those others mentioned, absolutely have high quality equipment, which can give you years and years of service.   If not "buying the clubs you were fitted into" has the potential to "wear" on you or make you second guess, then I would keep practicing with what you have and wait a little while.

[ballhawk]

https://www.costco.com/callaway-edge-10-piece-golf-club-set%2C-right-handed---graphite.product.100683849.html

Ran across these today at the local Costco and at $529. Wife almost had to call security to get me out of the store...........

[IndyBonzo]

1 hour ago, stuka44 said:

I did see your subsequent post, but my first clarification would be do you "need" new irons, or do you "want" new irons.  What is that your current irons do not do for you?   In regards to your second post.  I played with a set of irons I purchased from Giga Golf for 10 years, from about 25-15 years ago.  They were absolutely fine, and I never had any issues with craftsmanship or anything.  I in fact still use a 3W, 2H, and 3H from Giga Golf that I purchased 12 years ago for $37 a piece (including shipping and handling).

I am just trying to work this out.  Most of the time, as the responses you've received indicate, people either believe that "fitted clubs", (now pre-emptively I'm qualifying this statement to exclude people being "fitted" to the extent of making sure their clubs are not too long or short for them) are either almost essential to play this game well, or they aren't.    As a 12 handicap, and I at the present time am probably the same as you, someone who shoots in the mid to low 80's regularly, and on those good days gets into the high 70's, and on those days when the planets align maybe you have a 73 or 74 at one of the easier courses you play. So my original question I think is still primary.  What is it you "need" new, potentially expensive, irons to do.  At a 12 handicap, like me, you have a pretty good grasp of the game, and play at a  level, to know our bad scores come from, not practicing enough, bad execution(from not practicing), or bad decisions, not inferior, or "unfit" equipment.   My suggestion is that you make a firm decision on what you believe a Club Champion type fitting means to your game.  You suggest that your translating your fitting to Sub 70 etc, may not give you the feeling your looking for, and hence doubt the purchase in the long run, which could possibly lead to more expense actually.  

Just for clarity I am a Non-fitting, non expensive club guy, unless like me in 2019, you buy a set of Mavrik Pros as a retirement gift to yourself, because I WANTED them, and unless they break, they will be the last set of clubs I buy.  Giga Golf I have used, I'm sure sub 70, and those others mentioned, absolutely have high quality equipment, which can give you years and years of service.   If not "buying the clubs you were fitted into" has the potential to "wear" on you or make you second guess, then I would keep practicing with what you have and wait a little while.

Thank you for your thoughtful questions and input, I will do my best to answer thoughtfully as well.

You described my playing fairly accurately - it tends to stick in the low 80's right now, primarily due to poor driver play and some iron issues.  The driver is entirely up to me and my swing and practice.  The irons are too, but a lot less so.  Let me explain.

I was fit for irons in 2021 at the beginning of my improvement efforts.  I have taken lessons since that fitting, have brought my handicap down considerably, and rightly or wrongly consider myself a pretty decent ball striker (driver excepted) most of the time.  (My coach agrees with that, so my delusion is at worst partial.)  I have no problem getting good distance and trajectory from my 21 Apex DCBs.  But the feedback is terrible, and workability is sorely lacking.  That, and I get the dreaded fliers when I hit a "hot spot" on the face, which means my distance control can vary up to 20 yards from "average" with a particularly hot ball strike.  So, while you are correct that "need" may be a bit strong, if I want to continue to improve, I definitely "want" new irons and feel that they will help me along that goal.  Or, at least, I want to test that theory by trying out some more player-level clubs to see if my hypothesis is correct.

To that end, I am testing some Giga 7 irons, and I also have a demo day fitting this weekend with Mizuno, where I can compare against my current gamer iron.  

All that said, I may learn that I am not the striker I think I am and should stick with the DCBs for a while, or forever.  On the other end of the spectrum, a Giga or Mizuno tester may cause an angelic chorus of bliss to descend upon me.  Goldilocks says I am most likely to determine from these experiments that *some* sort of change will improve and better fit my game now, and help me improve more long-term, which means . . . I pony up for the full fitting in order to avoid exactly the type of buyer's regret you correctly suggest might befall me.  (My best golf buddy is in my ear about this daily, pleading with me to get fit and not make a mistake by going my own way.  He knows how stubborn I am.)

I wish I did not feel the need/want for new irons.  That feeling is unique to my irons, despite my driver issues, which I am addressing through practice, coaching, and less drastic tinkering to get the right shaft length and swing weight for me.

In sum?  Stay tuned, I guess.  I will not be changing clubs for change's sake, and will be the first to admit the DCBs are the best thing for me right now if it turns out they are.

Thanks again.  Truly.

  

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, stuka44 said:

 My suggestion is that you make a firm decision on what you believe a Club Champion type fitting means to your game.  

I'm seeking a clarification;   when someone says fitting do you think we are all implying Club Champion/Tour Spec type fitting?   

In my mind that is only one type of fitting;  fitting could also be doing a mizuno shaft optimizer to help select a profile that may fit your swing,  it could be a big box fitting that the sales person hands you clubs and either you or the sales person evaluate the performance, it could be entering swing and launch information into an online tool, or it could be trying a bunch of used clubs at a store to find something you like.   

I have hit enough clubs over the years to know that you shouldn't just pick a club off the rack and say this is what I need to play.  For example, If you tend to hit the ball right,  you don't want a club that you tend to leave further right.  If you have to much or too little spin you need equipment to help with that.   No fitting is going to immediately drop your handicap by 10 stroke,  but it should lower your floor/ceiling by a stroke or two.  

[Tin_Whisker]

On 3/3/2023 at 8:47 AM, cnosil said:

in knowledge on fitting and do something at a big box store where you compare your clubs with stock offerings.  See what feels and

I'm going to a fitting soon and I do not plan on buying clubs from the fitter.  Instead, I will document exactly what the fitter recommends and then do some shopping online.  I may even buy used if I can find an appropriate set. 

[Stuka44]

On 3/9/2023 at 6:51 PM, cnosil said:

I'm seeking a clarification;   when someone says fitting do you think we are all implying Club Champion/Tour Spec type fitting? 

I do not assume that at all, but in this case I was responding to what the original poster indicated he was contemplating, a club champion fitting to improve his irons, and some question, and a little doubt about applying the technical data to other brands, and if the results would meet his expectations,   if not purchasing the "fitted clubs" due to cost. 

 I was simply offering my suggestion, that he seems to, having had one for woods, believe in the club champion type fitting. He clearly as I indicated is much more into the "technical aspects" of clubs than I am. His comments  suggested to me the possibility of doubting, applying  the results of said fitting, via other means(Sub 70, Giga etc.).   Since he seems well versed I assumed he, as he indicated is aware that Giga and other places have on-line fitting systems  to help you with various technical aspects of clubs.  I advised that I purchased a set of Giga clubs using their on line fitting system, and got many years of quality use out of them.  Although mostly inferred, the OP seemed to also understand that I was not out comparing the technical data on what I got out of my Giga clubs, to the next set I purchased, which I correctly assumed given his comments he will likely be doing in the future.

And for clarity I don't believe at any point I suggested that he simply go out and purchase a set of clubs off the rack, and use them, or implied in any way that fittings, on-line or otherwise are a waste of his time.  I in fact used the Callaway on line fitting, and KBS shaft "fitting" thing to suggest a shaft, since it was the last set of clubs I will ever buy.  My concern was regarding like many of you, spin, and all of that stuff, is very important to you in your game.  I made it clear that it is not to me.

I was simply advising caution to him based on my reading of his comments on a club champion type fitting, compared to applying results to on-line enter data type fittings(and the results he expects).   Which he seemed to understand and responded graciously to.

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by stuka44

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, stuka44 said:

I do not assume that at all, but in this case I was responding to what the original poster indicated he was contemplating, a club champion fitting to improve his irons, and some question, and a little doubt about applying the technical data to other brands, and if the results would meet his expectations,   if not purchasing the "fitted clubs" due to cost. 

 I was simply offering my suggestion, that he seems to, having had one for woods, believe in the club champion type fitting. He clearly as I indicated is much more into the "technical aspects" of clubs than I am. His comments  suggested to me the possibility of doubting, applying  the results of said fitting, via other means(Sub 70, Giga etc.).   Since he seems well versed I assumed he, as he indicated is aware that Giga and other places have on-line fitting systems  to help you with various technical aspects of clubs.  I advised that I purchased a set of Giga clubs using their on line fitting system, and got many years of quality use out of them.  Although mostly inferred, the OP seemed to also understand that I was not out comparing the technical data on what I got out of my Giga clubs, to the next set I purchased, which I correctly assumed given his comments he will likely be doing in the future.

And for clarity I don't believe at any point I suggested that he simply go out and purchase a set of clubs off the rack, and use them, or implied in any way that fittings, on-line or otherwise are a waste of his time.  I in fact used the Callaway on line fitting, and KBS shaft "fitting" thing to suggest a shaft, since it was the last set of clubs I will ever buy.  My concern was regarding like many of you, spin, and all of that stuff, is very important to you in your game.  I made it clear that it is not to me.

I was simply advising caution to him based on my reading of his comments on a club champion type fitting, compared to applying results to on-line enter data type fittings(and the results he expects).   Which he seemed to understand and responded graciously to.

 

Thanks;  was just trying to get a better understanding of your individual perspective on fitting since you state you are against it and wanted to know if it was just a club champion/tourspec type fitting or all aspect of fitting.  My questions have nothing to do with your response.    Although you say no fitting,  it seems like you do advocate for some level of fitting; you just don't dive into the numbers and go with recommendations based on some set of parameters.   

[JFish350]

Sub 70 has a demo program as well. Unless pricing has changed it ends being $20 for Irons and I think $50 for drivers and woods. 

I choose Sub 70 over Tltleist T200's. I felt the 699pros gave me the same feel, distance and better forgiveness. I'm a 15.  This was a year and half ago and I still love them. 

They are in my opinion the best customer service company I have dealt with. Not just in golf, but ever with anything I bought. 

[Stuka44]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Thanks;  was just trying to get a better understanding of your individual perspective

  I used the on line fitting tool, and went with the shaft that the KBS tool recommended. 100% correct though, I won't be getting on a trackman or whatever any time soon to compare numbers compared to some other shaft, or club.  In that regard I am strictly a practice guy.

 

 

[IndyBonzo]

Still in dilemma mode, unfortunately.  

Did the Mizuno Demo Day fitting today, and landed on the Pro 225 irons with True Temper Dynamic Gold 120shafts.  They feel great (soft), and they go straight and long, and they are workable.  Misses were not too far offline, and feedback was good.  
Boy, they are spendy, too.  But maybe worth it.

I have also been hitting Giga Golf 7 irons in the m510 and m410 models, both with the same TT DG 120.  I just love hitting the m510 muscleback.  It's 4 degrees of loft weaker at 34, and being a "real" blade too, it's significantly shorter than my Apex DCB and the Mizunos, by about 10 -15 yards.  Surprisingly, I find it nearly as forgiving as the Mizunos, and it's definitely soft and workable.  It would also be about 1/3 the cost.  I could buy a set, try them for 30 days, and return them if I decided to.  Part of me thinks that is sortof a jerk move, even though those are their explicit terms.  

So, I am still choosing.  I am also debating, in either case, about changing lofts by a couple degrees no matter which way I go - split the difference between "modern" stonger lofts and the traditional weaker lofts.

My buddy is still telling me to go get the CC fitting to confirm against other models that the Mizunos are the best for me.  Given the good results I got with both the Gigas and the Mizunos, I have a hard time believing that I am going to get significantly better results from another make/model.  Do I think that is worth $175 for an iron fitting?  Doubtful.

Somebody tell me what to do, and guarantee it will all be perfect and I won't be back here whinging about the same stuff in two years!  LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by IndyBonzo

[IndyBonzo]

In case anyone is still following this process, (a) I was fitted in a Mizuno demo days fitting for the MP-225 with TT DG S-300 shafts, which were totally amazeballs;  (b) I am waiting on the arrival of some “vintage” tester clubs - Mizuno MP-60 and Miura CB-57 (with Aerotech Steelfiber 110 shafts) from eBay, and (c) I have a CC fitting Thursday next which my golf buddy gifted me.  Ideally, the fitting will tell me that the OG Mizunos or Miuras are ideal.  I am super pumped to try them both.  Really wondering about those graphite shafts in the Miuras - will be fascinating. After much testing, the Giga Golf 510 clubs (amazing price) are still in the mix, and they feel buttery sweet when hit well, but my spidey-sense tells me the Japanese clubs will win that battle. The CC fitting has the potential to lob a curveball into the mix, but I doubt it will - suspecting it will tell me the ideal shafts but not that a certain head is the unicorn I seek.  I am aware that the lofts are quite different among the older clubs and the MP-225s, so I am not going to allow distance to be the sole determinant. I intend to stay open-minded through the fitting. 

So, with the gift CC fitting, and potential for striking gold with my eBay clubs, maybe I won’t have to spend $1200.  But some new Mizunos - or others post CC fitting - will cost me at least that.  Time will tell.

The goal is improved scoring, so I will be totally objective.  
 

But Is it wrong I am rooting for the OG Miuras?  They are so PRETTY!

Edited March 19, 2023 by IndyBonzo

[GolfSpy SAM]

1 hour ago, IndyBonzo said:

In case anyone is still following this process, (a) I was fitted in a Mizuno demo days fitting for the MP-225 with TT DG S-300 shafts, which were totally amazeballs;  (b) I am waiting on the arrival of some “vintage” tester clubs - Mizuno MP-60 and Miura CB-57 (with Aerotech Steelfiber 110 shafts) from eBay, and (c) I have a CC fitting Thursday next which my golf buddy gifted me.  Ideally, the fitting will tell me that the OG Mizunos or Miuras are ideal.  I am super pumped to try them both.  Really wondering about those graphite shafts in the Miuras - will be fascinating. After much testing, the Giga Golf 510 clubs (amazing price) are still in the mix, and they feel buttery sweet when hit well, but my spidey-sense tells me the Japanese clubs will win that battle. The CC fitting has the potential to lob a curveball into the mix, but I doubt it will - suspecting it will tell me the ideal shafts but not that a certain head is the unicorn I seek.  I am aware that the lofts are quite different among the older clubs and the MP-225s, so I am not going to allow distance to be the sole determinant. I intend to stay open-minded through the fitting. 

So, with the gift CC fitting, and potential for striking gold with my eBay clubs, maybe I won’t have to spend $1200.  But some new Mizunos - or others post CC fitting - will cost me at least that.  Time will tell.

The goal is improved scoring, so I will be totally objective.  
 

But Is it wrong I am rooting for the OG Miuras?  They are so PRETTY!

Sounds like a great plan!! Excited to hear how it all pans out for you!

[IndyBonzo]

Here is the final update.  After a good fitting and trying lots of clubs the testing showed Mizuno MP 223 irons as the way to go.
 

Thank you for all the good advice here.  I followed much of it - demo days fittings, experimenting with different clubs on my own, CC fitting, etc.  You all were immensely helpful.