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I think that most of the time my left hand V points to my chin and maybe my right ear, I am conferrable getting it as weak as my left ear at times on short shots.

 

One thing I didn't consider might be the issue is that my club face is actually slightly open at address rather then square causing the ball to have a fade bias more then a slight draw bias.

 

Anyways, the question still remains really, what are the recommendations that you might give a player that is making a grip change to make it feel more natural on the golf course. I have been at night just gripping and re-gripping my club to the point where I know it is as strong as I would ever want to play it. Reputation seems to be helping a lot.

 

You've got the right idea - bring a club to the office with you and just practice the same thing. Take your grip how you want it, put the club down, and repeat. wink.gif

 

 

 

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You've got the right idea - bring a club to the office with you and just practice the same thing. Take your grip how you want it, put the club down, and repeat. wink.gif

 

I actually figured out what it was on the range yesterday that was promoting my cut and in ability to hit a draw. The shaft actually slipped more into the Palm of my hands rather then the fingers. I used a 9 pane drill, to test the workability and trajectory control of getting the grip more in the fingers then the palm.

 

High cut, High straight, High draw

Middle cut, Middle straight, Middle draw

Low cut, Low straight, Low draw

 

It worked very well, I even had another pane on the left side and right side on high slice, middle slice, low hook, middle hook. It was amazing practice tee season once I found the grip correction.

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I like James - I keep a club in my office and grip it all the time - I have a two room suite which is really nice - I keep the club in the back room where no one can see me - I also have two mirrors in there so I can do some mirror work -

 

I often put in 12 hour days and this lets me at least hold a club every day.

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The good thing for me is that it's a lot easier to move where the shaft passes through the palm of the hand then changing where the V is pointing at your body.

 

As Hogan said in his book you should have calluses in 4 major locations on the top hand. One at the base of the middle, ring and pinky finger then one just bellow the fat part of the palm up from the pinky... I happened to be a little shallow through the palm, i didn't have the pinky callus and the one on my palm was in the center of the fat part of my hand... Just translates the shaft being in a position the wrists hing less and don't release as easily, good anti-hook position basically. I Got the grip move more in the pinky finger and fat part of my palm near the pinky on top of the club and been swinging a lot easier with more face control.

 

However yes, I do sit around the house on rainy days right now just gripping and re-gripping the club. I noticed that the more the grip gets into my palm the more the V starts moving to my left ear rather then being more right ear to right collar bone.

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I have those calluses! Also have one on the pad between the knuckles on my ring finger. I had to stop playing cord grips a few years ago these calluses got so bad.

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I've got them too but I also have a puzzler that perhaps someone can help me with - maybe even the boss man James.

 

I get bruising on the pointer finer on my right hand - the better I'm striking the ball the more pronounced the bruising. I use a very straight forward Vardon grip that's a shade on the strong side of neutral.

 

Any thoughts on why this would be?

 

Like I said the better I'm hitting it the more pronounced the bruising.

 

Oh yeah I'm a right handed golfer so the right hand is my bottom hand.

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I found a good image of what I was talking about before of where the grip hits the palm. I move my grip from the C position to the D position and started working like I wanted it too, was able to work the ball how I like.

GripPositions.jpg

 

For my right hand it sort of looks like a toned down Erine Else Position with the right pointer, my right pointer finger tip and thumb actually touch each other

Els-rightpalmgrip2.jpg

Els-fullgrip.jpg

 

 

I've got them too but I also have a puzzler that perhaps someone can help me with - maybe even the boss man James.

 

I get bruising on the pointer finer on my right hand - the better I'm striking the ball the more pronounced the bruising. I use a very straight forward Vardon grip that's a shade on the strong side of neutral.

 

Any thoughts on why this would be?

 

Like I said the better I'm hitting it the more pronounced the bruising.

 

Oh yeah I'm a right handed golfer so the right hand is my bottom hand.

 

I am not an expert but I can take a poke at this. I would have to assume that this is being caused from a right handed release and strike. You I would assume that you are a very hand hand dominant striker of the golf ball. Do You feel that you use the right hand to manipulate the face to create shot shapes or the left?

 

I am a right hand dominant player, but over the years I have had to learn how to feel like my right hand is passive just before impact and from that point forward. Really using the left wrist and arm to control the strike and face. Phil and VJ we have all seen videos of their swings where there lower hand is almost completely off the golf club.

 

If you start with a neutral top hand position, at impact. Wrist position of top hand controls the face angle. bowed top wrist = closed face (Hogan was famous for this), flat top wrist = square face, cupped top wrist = open face. You can shape shots by changing the top wrist position, or just changing the swing path to the target line with a flat left wrist. Assuming you have Target A (the line where the ball starts on) and Target B (where you want the ball to end up going). The two methods are close to the same but minor changes.

 

For me I tend to FEEL like I am using wrist manipulation for my shot shaping, but I will subconsciously open my stance a hair on a cut, close it a hair on a draw. Anything more then a 5 to 8 yard movement is going to have to be wrist manipulation for me.

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I think that might be the case JMiller - my normal shot is a fairly high draw (2 or 3 yarder). I do like to feel that right hand releasing through the ball and have to be very careful to make sure that I'm griping it lightly with my right hand or I leave the ball a bit right (to tight a grip and the release is late.)

 

Interestingly I don't manipulate the club with my hands to hit a fade - I set the club open a bit left of target and then set my stance for the starter line - I have to really focus on pulling the club through with my left hand and letting the open clubface hit the ball high or else I'll get a double cross. Experience has taught me that when I'm trying to hit a fade or a slice it's a block fade or slice and so I have to aim a bit further left.

 

I hit a really nice one on Tuesday with my five hybrid - freaked the guy out who I was playing with because I originally said that I would hit an 8 iron over the tree and then play from 175 into the green - he walked to his ball and on second look I released that I could get my 5 hybrid over the left side of the tree and cut it back thereby getting it down inside of 130 - creamed it and since I hit it so high out of the rough down wind I got it to the 100. Set up a really nice blocked short sided wedge into the trap. :angry:

 

I can draw/hook anything about any amount that you'd want either by manipulating the club with my hands or the more traditional way aligning my feet right and closing the clubface - I generally go the hands route because it's so natural for me. I played baseball for so long and was a pitcher up through High School and a catcher as well (into college.) So I just see the ball going right to left and understand the spin axis needed to make that happen really well. (A curve, slider, cut fastball from a right handed pitcher)

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Great stuff guys! I would tend to agree that if you're getting bruising on any of your fingers you are likely trying to control the club too much with your hands. I always feel like their only job is to keep the club from going flying - nothing more. To try and control a complex high speed movement like the golf swing with tiny little muscles like the ones in your hands and fingers is a futile exercise that usually causes inconsistent results at best.

 

That being said, I always felt like the pointer finger of the trail hand (right hand for right handed golfers) should be chopped off. I don't think it does any good. All the magic happens in the ring and index fingers.

 

Also, I really don't like the way that the index finger is positioned in the last picture that jmiller posted. When I see players hook their index finger around the grip like that it is usually a sign that they are going to try and steer the whole thing with that helpless little digit.

 

Have you considered amputation? wink.gif

 

 

 

 

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James the lowest two pictures I posted are of Ernie Els grip position. Here is the Leadbetter grip as you see even he does a little bit a of a trigger finger with the right index. Both use some extent of a what I would call a "trigger finger" with the lower hand's index finger.

LeadbetterHundred-fullgrip.jpg

 

Control of the face of the golf club is always coming from the top hand, most of us use a golf glove on our top hand only, there is probably a reason that is done. I agree with James here that the lower hand is for nothing but power, no face control or attempt to steer the face with that lower hand.

 

The issue is that most people play golf with their dominant hand low on the club, it gives a natural sensation to want to control the shot with that hand. You really pretty much are completely done with the right hand once that arm is fully extended, it does nothing but give power into the back of the ball, you could completely drop that hand off the shaft just before impact and hit the same shot.

 

 

I used to play Ice Hockey growing up as some of you probably read before in the "talent vs potential" thread. Played for 10 years and played to a AA travel level. In ice hockey you are told as a child that you should use your dominant hand on top of the stick holding the stick to the left of your body as a right hand dominate person. The control of the blade on a ice hockey stick comes from the top hand on the stick. The power of the shots comes from the lower hand on the stick. I personally was a guy that played with my left hand on top of my ice hockey stick I just learned how to control the blade for shot placement, I also had the advantage of my power hand giving me the shot speed my "slap shot" was one of the hardest shots in my league.

 

 

I have always wondered if players in golf would actually benefit from doing the ice hockey method of which side to hold the club, left or right. Meaning that majority of golfers like NHL players would be "left handed" or holding the stick / club to the left of their body. This would give you the control of the lead hand in golf and then the passive power of the travailing hand.

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Just curious, have you ever coached someone through that change? If so, how did it go?

 

I have never even attempted to hit a ball left handed beyond the very rare flipping the club over when I'm against an obstacle. I would think it would be like starting all over again.

 

I do know right handers that have tinkered with putting left handed for a while but never known any to stick with it.

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Just curious, have you ever coached someone through that change? If so, how did it go?

 

I have never even attempted to hit a ball left handed beyond the very rare flipping the club over when I'm against an obstacle. I would think it would be like starting all over again.

 

I do know right handers that have tinkered with putting left handed for a while but never known any to stick with it.

 

Are you talking to me or James? Are you referring to the change of playing right handed into left handed?

 

My wife wanted to try and play golf, I bought her a RH 6 iron at first and she just had the "kill it" mentality, and a lot of swing faults beginners have a hard time getting out of, it is most of the time from a softball / baseball background (she played softball). I made the call to try it left handed so I bought a 6 iron that was left handed. She really saw some great improvements in the golf swing by making the switch. We have since bought a set of irons that are left handed for her and she hits a 7iron 120 not terrible and I want to say it's a dang draw! I couldn't be more excited to see a draw from her as a very new / beginner that is sweet. Her short game (chipping & pitching) is really good actually as they are lead arm dominant strikes anyways. I haven't gotten her into a bunker just yet don't think she is confident enough to do those shots.

 

I have attempted to make a few shots with her clubs and it is a little funky feeling first few swings, i can't turn of the ball that well, make about a 1/2 to 3/4 swing, my short game is pretty good when doing it left handed and I can turn my RH clubs over and hit a trouble shot left handed pretty easily. With anything you are going to have to develop the feel for correct positions in the backswing that create shots, but over time I think it would be beneficial to anyone that just can't seem to get golf right handed and are right hand dominant players.

 

 

In ice hockey when you are teaching a child to play you give them a stick that doesn't have any curve to the blade at all so that they can switch back and forth between holding it on the right side of their body or the left side of their body. They will eventually settle into a side that is most conferable for them. A lot of times that is with their dominant hand on top of the stick.

 

In golf I think buying a RH 6 iron and a LH 6 iron allowing the player to make swings with each one then sticking to the one that just feels betters to them is also a great idea to start children out in the sport.

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Thanks James - I try to keep that right hand as loose as possible - perhaps I think it's loose and it's not - I will be watching for that.

 

My bad shots are either blocks or hooks - I have no doubt that the right hand is the culprit in the blocks - I believe that my hips are the culprits with the hooks.

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Thanks James - I try to keep that right hand as loose as possible - perhaps I think it's loose and it's not - I will be watching for that.

 

My bad shots are either blocks or hooks - I have no doubt that the right hand is the culprit in the blocks - I believe that my hips are the culprits with the hooks.

 

That sounds like the old Tiger Woods "o lay" position. By that I mean the hips fire so hard the hands get "stuck" behind the body, the only thing you can do from there is flip the head closed to hit a hook, or push it. Here is a Video of Tiger Woods and Butch Harmon, Tiger mentions this position in the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PplQjd6ZP88

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I personally hate it when I see someone falling asleep over the ball. James or whomever wants to answer this, what would you do to suggest to someone on how not to fall asleep over the ball with 100 swing thoughts and alignment checks and silly stuff before making a swing?

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I personally hate it when I see someone falling asleep over the ball. James or whomever wants to answer this, what would you do to suggest to someone on how not to fall asleep over the ball with 100 swing thoughts and alignment checks and silly stuff before making a swing?

 

To quote a terrible ( but fun nonetheless ) movie:

 

"Let the Big Dog Eat" or "Grip it and rip it" :)

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A while ago I had a situation where the ball was top of the chest high because it was sitting on the side of a very steep hill. How would you (or any of the low cappers) recommend playing this shot?

 

What I did and don't recommend is whacking at it, causing it to dribble the rest of the way down the hill, then I took a more normal shot from heavy rough...

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I personally hate it when I see someone falling asleep over the ball. James or whomever wants to answer this, what would you do to suggest to someone on how not to fall asleep over the ball with 100 swing thoughts and alignment checks and silly stuff before making a swing?

 

 

 

Take them into the pro shop and crumple up a piece of paper. Then get a wastebasket and ask them to throw the paper into the wastebasket. After they complete the task, ask them if they thought about how they were going to move their elbow or when they were going to release their grip on the paper, or if they just looked at the wastebasket and threw it in.

 

That sometimes helps get the idea across. biggrin.gif

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A while ago I had a situation where the ball was top of the chest high because it was sitting on the side of a very steep hill. How would you (or any of the low cappers) recommend playing this shot?

 

What I did and don't recommend is whacking at it, causing it to dribble the rest of the way down the hill, then I took a more normal shot from heavy rough...

 

For a ball above my feet regardless of the amount, I see two main options to making good contact.

1) take more club and choke down on the club some, could be choking down all the way on the steel at some points if it is real bad.

2) take a back swing that has more rotation then vertical lift. When the ball is sitting chest high it is pretty much all rotation.

 

For a ball bellow my feet I just have to add knee flex to get my body lowered to the ball making sure to keep my spine angle normal. There are times where I have had to get down onto one knee with one leg in a bunker and the other out, or even on a really bad slop getting down on both knees to get low enough to make a swing.

 

In either case above or bellow your feet the worst the situation the more your objective is to make good contact and take your stroke to get it back into a more playable location. Make a very smooth swing and don't try to get too much out of the bad situation.

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