PGA Tour 2024 - Arnold Palmer Invitational

[Javs]

Is this drive Rory or really @CB Lobo 4 Life during the VTC??? Ha ha ha
 

 

Edited March 10 by Javs

[Subdiver1]

Interesting conversation to start the day with. I cannot wait to see how many players start to take video of their opponents while on the course and watch for wobble etc. And call penalty strokes using slow motion replays and such  

[Javs]

21 minutes ago, Subdiver1 said:

Interesting conversation to start the day with. I cannot wait to see how many players start to take video of their opponents while on the course and watch for wobble etc. And call penalty strokes using slow motion replays and such  

Ouch! Funny if you aren’t in contention you get no media coverage and no extra scrutiny. 

[DaveP043]

26 minutes ago, Subdiver1 said:

Interesting conversation to start the day with. I cannot wait to see how many players start to take video of their opponents while on the course and watch for wobble etc. And call penalty strokes using slow motion replays and such  

This might be the right time to point out rule 20.2c, concerning the "naked eye" standard to be used when reviewing video.

[Shapotomous]

1 hour ago, funkyjudge said:

Yes, he did REALLY!  No question whatsoever.  I am not generally a big fan of Brandel Chamblee, but he hit the nail on the head and in his video he also showed exactly how much the ball moved with the red circle that he drew around the ball in its original position.

In addition, Clark improved his lie and tamped down the line of this club path with his wedge machinations. Maybe he "had no idea" that he was doing this, but if so that is even more troubling because it means that this has become second nature to him and he no longer even realizes that he is cheating.

Completely agree.  He improved the path his club had toward the ball and the ball moved.  It was a Patrick Reed apecial.

[Javs]

9 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Completely agree.  He improved the path his club had toward the ball and the ball moved.  It was a Patrick Reed apecial.

Some of the older players especially Tom Watson used to accuse Gary Player of doing that exact thing whenever his ball was in the rough. They just didn’t have the complete coverage and camera work there is today. 

[funkyjudge]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Again, seeing a ball move a small distance vertically isn't always possible, he may not have seen that.  And you're telling me that your judgement of that is better than an experienced official reviewing the same video, and possibly other video that we (including Brandel) don't have access to?  I don't agree.  I admit I'm not sure the ball returned to its original location, but but its not "clear cheating".  

As to his "wedge machinations", I saw the wedge being grounded several times behind the ball.  We didn't see his body or his hands, we have no idea whether he pressed down excessively.   And 8.1b(4) allows a player to ground his club lightly either right behind or in front of his ball, even if it improves the Conditions Affecting The Stroke.  Its possible he did improve the CATS, but that is specifically acceptable under the rules, as long as he didn't press the club into the ground.  

You may be right, and I may be wrong, but I am with those who believe that, at a minimum, Wyndham Clark should never have put himself in that position of doubt in the first place.

My “overreaction“ may have a lot to do with the ever-increasing number of times that I have seen these tour players taking dubious actions that either skirt or stretch the rules to the point where those actions come into serious doubt. On top of that, having just read the “Undercover Caddy” column regarding tour player cheating in the March/April issue of Golf Digest a few hours earlier, I was probably (likely?) influenced by that article, as well.

[Javs]

21 minutes ago, funkyjudge said:

You may be right, and I may be wrong, but I am with those who believe that, at a minimum, Wyndham Clark should never have put himself in that position of doubt in the first place.

My “overreaction“ may have a lot to do with the ever-increasing number of times that I have seen these tour players taking dubious actions that either skirt or stretch the rules to the point where those actions come into serious doubt. On top of that, having just read the “Undercover Caddy” column regarding tour player cheating in the March/April issue of Golf Digest a few hours earlier, I was probably (likely?) influenced by that article, as well.

I read that article in Golf Digest also. Very interesting and surprising. However, I have read and heard it’s a bigger issue than we know. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

I haven't watched any, but has it been a good event so far? 

[KingSlender]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Did he really?  Do you have a video showing that he did something more than resting the club behind the ball?  Yes, he did that a few times, maybe you can find a rule that limits the number of times he can ground the club lightly behind the ball.  Now he may have caused the ball to move, I'm not certain that it returned to its original position, it might have settled more deeply into the grass, but experienced people reviewed the video to make that call.  Vertical movement is something he realistically might not have seen from above.

The ball moved. The yellow line is lined up over the same blade of grass.

The PGA does not like calling these because they know it's not fair to everyone on the course when only guys in contention get these kind of camera angles.  That being said, guys mashing the grass then changing clubs is an open secret in professional golf.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, KingSlender said:

The ball moved. The yellow line is lined up over the same blade of grass.

The PGA does not like calling these because they know it's not fair to everyone on the course when only guys in contention get these kind of camera angles.  That being said, guys mashing the grass then changing clubs is an open secret in professional golf.

I am still not convinced.  You're lined up on one blade of grass, but I see other blades that have changed position.  Do you know if your "reference blade" has changed position too.  Do you know if the camera has changed position at all?  This must be a hand held cam, not a stationary mount.  

But accepting that the ball has moved, how far has it moved?  That appears to me to be something like 1/8".  Is that enough to "reasonably seen with the naked eye"?  Thats the standard required I'm 20.2c.  Remember Lexi Thompson, she replaced her ball about half a ball diameter away, and lots of folks thought her penalty was unfair.

As I said, I'm just not convinced that he deserved to be penalized for moving the ball, or for grounding his club behind the ball repeatedly.

 

[TJ Hall]

7 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

It certainly wasn't a good look (the ball moving and so on). That being said they did look at it so have to have a slight bit of trust in the ruling.

I don’t doubt the ruling at all, cameras can be a little deceiving based on angles, those that were there have the best input.

[Splatt]

Scottie Scheffler wins by 5 shots!!

He also shot the round of the day at 6 under par. The closest to him was Theegala and An with 4 under.

Interestingly, look at his putting stats for that final round:

If he keeps this up everyone else is screwed

Congrats Scorrie

[KingSlender]

On 3/7/2024 at 8:45 AM, cnosil said:

Another assessment n what is wrong with his putting. .  everyone seems to have a thought on what will “fix” his putting.  Haven’t heard any putting experts say the answer is a face balanced putter. 

What attributes do you see that indicates he needs a face balanced putter and what will the face balanced putter fix and what are the potential things it will break?

So Scottie went to a face balanced putter - 5th in putting in the tournament and 17/17 inside 15 feet in the last round.

(mic drop)

[Shapotomous]

I didnt see the round itself, just highlights but it seemed he had a lot 125 and less shots end up about 6' from the hole.  He seemed to be throwing darts with his wedges.

[Shapotomous]

7 minutes ago, KingSlender said:

So Scottie went to a face balanced putter - 5th in putting in the tournament and 17/17 inside 15 feet in the last round.

(mic drop)

I like the mic drop!! 

I dont know if face balanced was the key but he said the mallet shape helped with his alignment so he wasnt using the lines on the ball any more.  And either he or his coach said the weight set up on that putter gave him truer roll on his heel hit.  The model he is using could have started as face balanced but wasnt by the time they customized the weighting for him.

[PDIDDYMARSH]

2 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

I like the mic drop!! 

I dont know if face balanced was the key but he said the mallet shape helped with his alignment so he wasnt using the lines on the ball any more.  And either he or his coach said the weight set up on that putter gave him truer roll on his heel hit.  The model he is using could have started as face balanced but wasnt by the time they customized the weighting for him.

This was genius from him! the fact he has finally recognised the issue within his game is great! this has made him even more dangerous in the run up to the Masters, we could see a very much improved Scheffler. I know where all my bets are going now!

 

[cnosil]

49 minutes ago, KingSlender said:

So Scottie went to a face balanced putter - 5th in putting in the tournament and 17/17 inside 15 feet in the last round.

(mic drop)

He putted well in the 3rd and 4th round,  Poorly in round 1, and average in round 2.  He has always had tournaments where he putts well.  Will have to see what if it continues.   I hate that 17/17 inside of 15 feet metric; definitely misleading.  His lag putting has always been good and that was a factor in this tournament and what really contributed to his stroke gained numbers plus the made 35 and 12 foot putts.    

his made putts were:

12’, 6’, 17”, 2.8’, 19”, 7.2’, 7.9’, 5”, 4”, 8.1’, 3.8’, 3.6’, 3.3’, 34.8’, 4.1’, 2.7’, 2.3’.   
 

5/5 from 6-8 feet is great putting.  
11 inside of 4.1 feet is probably only slightly better than expectations.  
 

Your assessment of face balanced was for path.  Per new articles the putter selection was more for the alignment aid and setup. 
 

32 minutes ago, PDIDDYMARSH said:

This was genius from him! the fact he has finally recognised the issue within his game is great! 

 

He has known putting has been his weakness for a long time.  He has been working with a putting coach.

Edited March 11 by cnosil

[PDIDDYMARSH]

4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

He putted well in the 3rd and 4th round,  Poorly in round 1, and average in round 2.  He has always had tournaments where he putts well.  Will have to see what if it continues.   I hate that 17/17 inside of 15 feet metric; definitely misleading.  His lag putting has always been good and that was a factor in this tournament and what really contributed to his stroke gained numbers plus the made 35 and 12 foot putts.    

his made putts were:

12’, 6’, 17”, 2.8’, 19”, 7.2’, 7.9’, 5”, 4”, 8.1’, 3.8’, 3.6’, 3.3’, 34.8’, 4.1’, 2.7’, 2.3’.   
 

5/5 from 6-8 feet is great putting.  
11 inside of 4.1 feet is probably only slightly better than expectations.  
 

Your assessment of face balanced was for path.  Per new articles the putter selection was more for the alignment aid and setup. 
 

He has known putting has been his weakness for a long time.  He has been working with a putting coach.

I know he has, but it was just clear using a Scotty was never the answer to this.

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, PDIDDYMARSH said:

I know he has, but it was just clear using a Scotty was never the answer to this.

I don’t think he has used a Cameron for a while. He won the masters and other tournament with a Cameron and switched to other Cameron’s then went to a TM Spyder and then a Logan Olsen, and now another Spyder.  He has wed both Cameron blades and mallets.   But I agree brand is not what is going to make anyone putt better   

 

[bens197]

Shane Lowry’s post-round greeting with Scheffler’s family hit me in the feels.  With the constant eye always watching, Lowry really appears to be one of those great guys who does all the right things.

Even in defeat he’s gracious and kind.  I can only imagine how fun a social round would be with him in the group. 

[billpierce]

15 hours ago, Splatt said:

Scottie Scheffler wins by 5 shots!!

He also shot the round of the day at 6 under par. The closest to him was Theegala and An with 4 under.

Interestingly, look at his putting stats for that final round:

If he keeps this up everyone else is screwed

Congrats Scorrie

His last two rounds were blistering accurate and consistent!

[cnosil]

5 hours ago, KingSlender said:

So Scottie went to a face balanced putter -

based on this and a few other photos it doesn’t seem to be face balanced.  

 

[KingSlender]

54 minutes ago, cnosil said:

based on this and a few other photos it doesn’t seem to be face balanced.  

 

Call it what you want - what's that, 8 degrees of toe hang?  I said face balanced, but really meant a mallet with more stability.  

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, KingSlender said:

Call it what you want - what's that, 8 degrees of toe hang?  I said face balanced, but really meant a mallet with more stability.  

Probably 25ish degrees.  Face balanced and mallet are pretty different things.