need some advice on trouble at the club

[Kor.A.Door]

we have a Saturday morning group, each week the numbers vary

anywhere from 8-20 guys, the person who sets it up is somewhat of a jerk, its his way or no way, and some of the guys, most of the better golfers, are tired of the dictatorship, and have pretty much stopped playing with us on Saturday, these are all good guys to play a round of golf with, both sides, some of the main issues is that the dictator says putt everything out, no problem mostly, but a 1 foot putt for double in the rain gets old, especially since if you shoot a double you are no going to win anything, the other issue is that he is not using any handicaps so the same 2 guys win every week, there are some really good guys to golf with, have any of you guys found yourself in this situation, is it better to confront the dictator, or just start another group, i like the guys on both sides. keep in mind that this is supposed to be fun, and not to buck the rules of golf with the putting issue, it wouldnt be an issue, but 3 weeks ago when this all started, one of the threesomes took 5 hours to play, with carts, in order to speed up play we should be using some common sense and picking up the 1 footer. what do ya'll think. fire away.

[dru_]

Depends upon the personality of the dictator, but I generally prefer confrontation, this is the ugly side of MY personality though so I wouldn't suggest that as gospel .

 

That said, pace of play issues like that are certainly a problem.  I am going to related a similar situation from my own saturday game group a month or so ago.  

 

We recently went through a composition change in our regular saturday men's group as well. I am one of the younger regular players in the group, and a core group of the older players, including the traditional organizer, decided to leave for another club with little notice. That led to a change in who was running the game, and though our numbers suffered a bit through the transition, we are rebuilding, but more importantly, the group is playing faster, and having more fun. So what changed? 

 

1. With the removal of some guys that really only liked to play together, the makeup of the various 4somes is more variable.

2. We went from a lift clean and cheat everywhere environment to a play them as they lie (unless is sitting in standing water) environment.

3. We went to a play them in if it 'matters' instead of play em all in regardless.  In other words, if you are not on the green and hitting +2 on the hole, just pick it up and move on.  A 3 footer for +3 doesn't matter, pick it up.

4. In the past the organizer would prefer a 4 and a 5 to playing 3 3's.  We have moved to favoring 3's over 5's.

5. We simplified the the game.  Stableford + Skins.  100% of handicap for stableford - handicap up to 18 on skins.

6. Started to push all players to notify the course every week if they plan to play.  This makes organizing the morning of the game far easier.

 

The fundamental difference though is the attitude of the coordinator.  Both guys are great guys, but the personalities are different enough that the group now has a much more open and laid back feeling, yet plays faster and has more fun with far less drama.

 

We did not have to confront anyone though, and a confrontation could cause more drama depending upon the people involved.  As an outsider, it is impossible to gauge that.  

[JohnBarry]

Agreed, confront and let him know he is no longer invited to play with the group.

[revkev]

I like drus rules. Those were exactly the ones we used in a weds game that I used to be a part of and in the Friday game I play in here with a slight modification of it being stable ford so it really doesn't matter at all once you get over bogey on the hole unless you happen to be getting a stroke. All the guys in that one are single digits.

[BIG STU]

we have a Saturday morning group, each week the numbers vary

anywhere from 8-20 guys, the person who sets it up is somewhat of a jerk, its his way or no way, and some of the guys, most of the better golfers, are tired of the dictatorship, and have pretty much stopped playing with us on Saturday, these are all good guys to play a round of golf with, both sides, some of the main issues is that the dictator says putt everything out, no problem mostly, but a 1 foot putt for double in the rain gets old, especially since if you shoot a double you are no going to win anything, the other issue is that he is not using any handicaps so the same 2 guys win every week, there are some really good guys to golf with, have any of you guys found yourself in this situation, is it better to confront the dictator, or just start another group, i like the guys on both sides. keep in mind that this is supposed to be fun, and not to buck the rules of golf with the putting issue, it wouldnt be an issue, but 3 weeks ago when this all started, one of the threesomes took 5 hours to play, with carts, in order to speed up play we should be using some common sense and picking up the 1 footer. what do ya'll think. fire away.

Golf is supposed to be fun. What I would do is let the majority rule and confront the dictator. If he does not budge then pull out and find another group to play with. That is one of the reasons I don't play with any of the leagues here they always seem to be accusing each other of cheating and one or two seem to dictate everything I don't see any fun in it

[fozcycle]

You are so right Stu......

 

golf is supposed to be fun.....I run the Saturday game at Pebble Creek, where we have about 70 players and average 36 each week. The game is a points game with your goal being the average of your most recent 10 rounds. This gives the high hcappers a chance as well. As for pace of play, we use a Double Max, even though we putt out. This helps speed up play, while making sure that the putts are made. Our standard is play it down, but when sometimes conditions change so we play lift clean & place in the fairways. Although I run the game, we have 5 Officers and allow for changes twice a year after our two day tournament. At that time, members are welcome to discuss changes and vote on it. The 5 Officers allow for backup when I am not available and provides a cross section of players. All in all, this seems to work well. Not every game is perfect, but we have not had any major changes in several years. We payout about 30 minutes after all have finished, which provides for several pitchers at the Pub. Usually about a dozen hang out for awhile afterwards. Each week, after I tally the numbers, I send out an email to all providing the results and news for upcoming events. This keeps everyone informed and allows for feedback from the players. Lefty, Maybe you can adopt something from this for your game.

 

Best of luck...

[Kor.A.Door]

well, the guys that left the regular group have kind of started their own group also on saturday morning, they go out earlier, I enjoy playing with all the guys from both groups, so I will most likely play with both sets for a while. I will possible have an opportunity this weekend to talk to the regular Saturday group leader, i would like to see everyone get together and have a larger group, but there may have to be some input or help from the club in order to do that, keep in mind that the club wants the members to fill out the tee times. the 2 sides on the issues are not very far apart, so there is hope to get everyone back together. it just might take a little time. we will see.

[Kor.A.Door]

its funny how things happen sometimes, earlier this week i was invited by 3 different groups of members to play on saturday morning, so i sent a message to the main groups leader, (the jerk i talked about earlier) and basically said that i didnt want to have to choose between the groups, and i would play with whichever one i felt, and then 5 minutes later, 10 people replied with stuff like we should get all the groups together and talk, and maybe set up a committee, and have the club pro help out with the group as well, someone even mentioned the possibility of starting a mens association, others mentioned putting a sign up sheet on display in the clubhouse to see if there may be some new members who want to join a regular group, then they mentioned doing some weekday events, i dont know what will come of this, but i think it is a good start to get a good bunch of guys playing in a large group, tis could be fun, we shall see.

[The Dansome]

Wow this is great to hear

[RookieBlue7]

If the same 2 guys are winning every week, I'm surprised it's taken this long for it to fall apart.  I'd suggest a stableford system with quotas to make it where everyone can be competitive.  I'd also suggest that you have to pull half of your points for it to count, 3 points down to lower the quota by a single point, 2 points up to raise the quota per point.  This makes it fair for all of the competitors.  We've had this going at my home course for going on 20 years with 40+ golfers and it works and is fair and prevents sandbagging.  There's a $10 buy-in for the points and $10 for skins.  All cash gets paid out.

If the dictator isn't willing to bend, then he needs to be replaced or a new group started.  The group isn't going to be happy if he isn't ousted.

[fozcycle]

Sounds like a great start for a new association. As a group Leader, I do know how difficult it is to keep every body happy, but we have been playing as a group at Pebble Creek for 5 years now and we are still growing. We have a 2 day tourney every 6 months and at that time open discussion and voting for any significant changes in how we run the game. It's a democratic process for sure and it works.

[BIG STU]

All this reminds me of something in the past. When my Dad ran the old course we had a weekend crowd that played every weekend religously. they were not organized formally but they showed up and they played. There may would be 20 guys sometimes 40 but they were there every weekend. They played a $2 round robin within their group and sometimes individual $2 bets between themselves and the other groups. I actually started playing for money with these guys in my early teens. Lots of fun never an arguement. These guys played for 20 years or so together. Actually we had two different groups of these guys one group came over from nearby Concord NC and played basically the same thing I played with both groups and had fun. Sometimes I wish for the good old days

[JohnBarry]

How did it play out?

[Kor.A.Door]

Here's an update, there is a lot of discussion of having an MGA at the club, this will help with getting more events as well as having more members participate, it will not fix our Saturday morning issues, so right now the 2 sides are apart, but there is talk of getting the head pro involved in the discussion to help mediate and hopefully get the 2 sides together, if not, then we will just keep the 2 separate groups, and then guys can choose what times they want to play. The main thing right now is that the communication stays open.

[JohnBarry]

What a horrible situation.