Between Stiff and Regular

[Jondagcl]

For about the last 2 months or so, I've been fighting a real strong case of the lefts.  Rewind before those two months and for the last 1 and a half to 2 years I felt like I've really got my swing where I wanted it, and more often than not I played pretty solid rounds that I was happy with the score and how I hit most of my clubs.  Still trying to bust into the single digit handicap, but I'll take a 10 that flirts with a 9.8.  

 

Then something sort of weird happened - pure, center struck shots started going a little left.  No worries I've been working on getting that fade out of my game, maybe thats it.  

 

Then I lost complete control of my trusty R11S.  I mean complete control.  Like from 60-75% fairways to 20%.  Maybe its the driver, so I grabbed an XHot that was lying around. For about 2 range sessions I felt like I figured it out.

 

Then back on the course, same thing.  Solid shots that started left and went left.  Maybe its my swing, maybe is my stance, ball position - could it be the shaft?  So I go to my local golf shop, and they are super cool with me about straight swapping my R flex shaft for an S.

 

I take it out to the range and bam, world of difference.  Play at the local course with it and shots are right back where I want them - best round with my driver in months.  Now I'm flirting switching the irons after playing R flex for so many years.

 

Anyone have experience with these sorts of growing pains?  Could the solution really be this easy?  I'd love to hear about it.

[revkev]

Since not all S shafts or R shafts are created equal it's very difficult to say what the flex of a club actually is.  I don't know how old you are or how long you've played or how you load the club or any of these things.  It's possible that your swing has changed where you might need a different flex on your driver but the reality is swinging smoother should have resolved the issue were that the case.  What could also have happened is that the driver that you had came with a shut face (a very normal thing with stock drivers from OEMs) and as your swing improved you started pulling the ball and so it was the face more than the shaft.  Likewise the irons could be too upright and so you are having an issue there for a different reason.

 

Bottom line is rather than going and reshafting a bunch of irons (sometimes that's very expensive) I'd got get fitted first.  I could be that you need a lie change or perhaps you do need a different shaft been then at least you'd know.

 

I hope that helps rather than confuses.

[Jondagcl]

Hi Rev, I'm in my mid 30's, I've been playing for about 12 or so years.  I messed around with the face a bit on the R11S and on the XHot - playing with the lofts and lies.  On the XHot specifically setting it to open before swapping out the shafts.

 

But I do like your suggestion.  Maybe a quick trip to the shop, take a few shots of the lie board with the old irons and see whats up.  I hadn't considered that the irons could be too upright as well.  

[ANGRYGOLFHULK]

Biggest problem is there no industry standard for what's considered R or S. Rev is spot on with closed club faces. Most people slice so drivers are positioned more closed then neutral unless it's a tour head your hitting which would more than likely be set up square.

[sp0rtsfan86]

With me it's always been stiff shafts, but have had regular shafts put in. Basically, it made little difference in my game, it's mostly how I was playing. I agree with everyone above, if you've made a swing change or something similar getting fit is the way to go.

[fozcycle]

With a steel plate, 13 screws and an inch of my hip in my left wrist, I have played graphite regular shafts for 15 years...until now.

 

I am now sporting the lightweight 85g Dynalite stiff steel shaft for my irons. I am much more accurate and my wrist has not felt any pain.

 

Seems to me if you are pulling your shots left using a Regular shaft, then a stiff shaft will be more left. If the Regular is too weak, then the face will be open when you strike the ball and the ball will fade or slice, not pull left. I would try to weaken my grip a bit. That should lessen the pull.

[revkev]

I would certainly try the lies on those irons before anything else - making grip changes could lead to swing changes which could lead to set up changes and before you know it things are a mess.  If you want to explore those possibilities its best to find a teacher.

 

In regards to monkeying with the position of the head via settings on an adjustable club the jury is out beyond if you raise the loft it closes the face and if you lower the loft it opens the face.  I saw Rocktblz mentioned and that one has a closed face beyond a doubt. 

 

Good luck

[Jondagcl]

Went in and had the lies checked out.  I was actually hitting them a little heavy on the toe side and it indicated that I should actually go up one more degree (currently they are already +1).  After diagnosing the issue a little more it looks like its a combination of a swing that has evolved into being a bit too upright and shafts that are on the weak end.  The fitter said that with the lefts, going more upright certainly won't help.  Hit some similar clubs 1 degree up with a stiffer shaft and saw some good looking results.

 

I'm definitely familiar with the variances between flexes - I remember when I had these Wishons fit the little CPM graph that the fitter made for me, and how we plotted each of the irons down the line.  I was right there on whatever the CPM number is that ends "regular" and starts "stiff".  We had this whole conversation about how there is no such thing as regular or stiff, just hard numbers.  But for practical purposes people categorize them...on and on and on. 

 

All in all I like how my little pre algebra problem is quickly turning into a tidy Algebra 1 problem.  Looks like I need to look at my swing a little more closely and consider some stiffer shafts as well.  Always nice to have a few variables in there, these will produce lovely swing thoughts this weekend.

[Blade]

With a steel plate, 13 screws and an inch of my hip in my left wrist, I have played graphite regular shafts for 15 years...until now.

 

I am now sporting the lightweight 85g Dynalite stiff steel shaft for my irons. I am much more accurate and my wrist has not felt any pain.

 

Seems to me if you are pulling your shots left using a Regular shaft, then a stiff shaft will be more left. If the Regular is too weak, then the face will be open when you strike the ball and the ball will fade or slice, not pull left. I would try to weaken my grip a bit. That should lessen the pull.

Actually a weak shaft will release more and close the face more. At impact the shaft is bent forward.

[revkev]

Went in and had the lies checked out. I was actually hitting them a little heavy on the toe side and it indicated that I should actually go up one more degree (currently they are already +1). After diagnosing the issue a little more it looks like its a combination of a swing that has evolved into being a bit too upright and shafts that are on the weak end. The fitter said that with the lefts, going more upright certainly won't help. Hit some similar clubs 1 degree up with a stiffer shaft and saw some good looking results.

 

I'm definitely familiar with the variances between flexes - I remember when I had these Wishons fit the little CPM graph that the fitter made for me, and how we plotted each of the irons down the line. I was right there on whatever the CPM number is that ends "regular" and starts "stiff". We had this whole conversation about how there is no such thing as regular or stiff, just hard numbers. But for practical purposes people categorize them...on and on and on.

 

All in all I like how my little pre algebra problem is quickly turning into a tidy Algebra 1 problem. Looks like I need to look at my swing a little more closely and consider some stiffer shafts as well. Always nice to have a few variables in there, these will produce lovely swing thoughts this weekend.

That's great. I'm going the whole gamut myself. Lessons, fitting, more lessons. Oh and now that school is out I'm practicing my short game fifteen minutes to half an hour at least five days a week. The short game is already back. Good luck and here's hoping you knock five strokes off your handicap this summer.

[fozcycle]

Actually a weak shaft will release more and close the face more. At impact the shaft is bent forward.

 

Blade, i think I am confused......explain why on the Launch Monitor, the stiff shaft was consistently left of center 3-6 yds and the regular shaft was right of center 9-12 yds for a 7 iron. Those were the results of the Cobra Bio Cell 7 iron I did on a LM at Golfsmith.

[Blade]

Typically a softer shaft will help someone fade or slice less if that's their problem. Not every swing makes the shaft respond the same of course. I can't speak for you. But like Jondacl mentioned above, stiffer shafts helped him stop going left compared to weaker shafts.

[Jondagcl]

That's great. I'm going the whole gamut myself. Lessons, fitting, more lessons. Oh and now that school is out I'm practicing my short game fifteen minutes to half an hour at least five days a week. The short game is already back. Good luck and here's hoping you knock five strokes off your handicap this summer.

Thanks!! Now that school is out? Are you a teacher?

 

Foz, blade described pretty much what was happening. I am really bad at explaining myself in a technical way, but I'll try to explain how it felt. Consider this sensation - you take your back swing, and transition to your down swing. I'll bet that in your head you have some sort of clock that predicts what happens next - when your club head will hit the ball. Imagine getting to the ball and feeling like the club is lagging behind. Sort of like the head of the club got away from you. This sounds weird to say, but it felt like sometimes I was hitting the ball with the middle of the shaft. Maybe that doesn't make any sense.

 

So then to compensate I set up for an even bigger draw, which made the problem 10 times worse and ultimately 20% fairways. I'm in a better place now with this new shaft, but I think that whatever is "stiff" for this callaway stock offering might not be stiff enough in the long run. But it's way better.

[fozcycle]

I know what you mean. I tried a lot of different drivers and the stock shafts had me pushing or fading to the right. Not a slice, but a slight fade.  I settled on the Project X 5.5 shafts a few years ago because they kept me straight down the fairway.  When I gamed the Nike Covert with a Kuro kage shaft, it was also straight, but I lost some distance.  The new Cobra Bio Cell with the Project Xv shaft has me back in the fairway and longer than before.  Then, out of nowhere, I start pulling everything to the left......I know it's not the driver or the shaft.  It has to be my follow through.  So my mental thought right now when i swing is a picture of Arnold Palmer in my head with his "followthru", more up and straight.  That helps a bit.

[HighFade]

With me it's always been stiff shafts, but have had regular shafts put in. Basically, it made little difference in my game, it's mostly how I was playing. I agree with everyone above, if you've made a swing change or something similar getting fit is the way to go.

Absolutely agree!

While the clubs and shafts are part of it, I believe the swing is 90%, the equipment 10%.

But getting fit is not a once in a lifetime event. Swings can change over the course of days, so an annual fitting isn't unreasonable. With the adjustable lofts and lies in both irons and drivers, it's easy and it can make a world of difference.

[revkev]

Jondagcl I really am a Rev just a Rev at a church with a school since I'm the SR Rev or senior pastor I'm responsible for the whole shooting match on the premises.

 

At any rate I have more time when school is out although it seems as if it's less more time every year.

[fozcycle]

I lost the pulls......yesterday and today my drives were straight down the fairway.

[Jondagcl]

Jondagcl I really am a Rev just a Rev at a church with a school since I'm the SR Rev or senior pastor I'm responsible for the whole shooting match on the premises.

At any rate I have more time when school is out although it seems as if it's less more time every year.

That's cool! Seems like you've been able to make the best out of the free time you get. I asked because I'm currently on my 3 months break. :-)

[Jondagcl]

Take a look at my 3 wood results.  Orange is regular flex results and blue is stiff flex results (disregard distance - I do not hit my 3 wood that far.  With the regular flex shaft when I smoke my 3 wood it goes 225-230.  231 is my career shot with this club)  

 

For comparison I used the same make and model shaft, same head, just stiff vs. regular flex.  Stock Fubuki shaft.

 

There isn't a huge difference in the results, but I did hit the stiff flex a little more consistently, closer online, and for some reason I swung it faster.  It actually felt like I was swinging slower which is very odd.  Felt a lot better at impact.  Went ahead and made the switch to stiff on the 3 wood as well.