Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[BMart519]

8 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Hoping to get another outdoor testing session in tonight without a quartering slice/headwind. I'm implementing some weight shift concepts from the TXG/Drew Cooper vidoes to play at 160-165mph ball speed next season and my face contact has been surprisingly good with my 60S Atmos Blue. It will take serious performance to beat that shaft since it has been validated in a fitting. Interesting seeming feedback on the stability of the Riptide CB, maybe I do need to go softer for an honest comparison to increase club head speed and launch enough over my normal setup. 

Round 2 results complete. Downwind in 70 degree weather. The Riptide CB 50R launched a bit higher than the ATMOS Blue 60S on similar strikes but even with a helping wind it produced no measurable difference and was often shorter. I would have been more warmed up with 50R since my first set was with the 60S. Carry was easy to compare as the end nets are just inside 260 and I only hit it once with 60S but many were hitting the net on the bounce with both shafts. The 50R is roughly 17g lighter (0.5" longer @ 45.75") with a similar SW between D1-D2 but almost felt heavier than the 60S. The Riptide again had bigger misses partly due to erratic face contact which is easy to monitor on the milled Cobra driver face. 45-45.5" seems to be my sweet spot and wouldn't be able to realize gains from a 46" shaft. 

I was pleased to see the emphasis on pressure shifting and faster backswing produced reasonable accuracy that I would be comfortable using on the course and also carried over to irons. Playing in a dry environment with medium-high winds reduces some of the benefits from a high launch shaft. Loving the forgiveness of the Radspeed XB head vs the F9 as well. 

I doubt the Riptide will get many reps other than some sim time over the winter but will keep my eye out for a 40-45G senior/lite flex because it is fun to experiment. 

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, BMart519 said:

Round 2 results complete. Downwind in 70 degree weather. The Riptide CB 50R launched a bit higher than the ATMOS Blue 60S on similar strikes but even with a helping wind it produced no measurable difference and was often shorter. I would have been more warmed up with 50R since my first set was with the 60S. Carry was easy to compare as the end nets are just inside 260 and I only hit it once with 60S but many were hitting the net on the bounce with both shafts. The 50R is roughly 17g lighter (0.5" longer @ 45.75") with a similar SW between D1-D2 but almost felt heavier than the 60S. The Riptide again had bigger misses partly due to erratic face contact which is easy to monitor on the milled Cobra driver face. 45-45.5" seems to be my sweet spot and wouldn't be able to realize gains from a 46" shaft. 

I was pleased to see the emphasis on pressure shifting and faster backswing produced reasonable accuracy that I would be comfortable using on the course and also carried over to irons. Playing in a dry environment with medium-high winds reduces some of the benefits from a high launch shaft. Loving the forgiveness of the Radspeed XB head vs the F9 as well. 

I doubt the Riptide will get many reps other than some sim time over the winter but will keep my eye out for a 40-45G senior/lite flex because it is fun to experiment. 

I think the even mix of controllable length of 45" paired with the more active profile of the PLB has been a winner for a lot of us. Even compared to my 45" MotoreX, I'm just getting better launch, disbursement, and distance. Kind of having my cake and eating it too. It's kinda fun

I know it sounds like I'm hyping up the PLB a lot. But I also think that the Riptide was kind of a loop thrower for all of us. It kind of started us out in the general direction but maybe not exactly the right direction. I'm just saying, don't let the Riptide be the spoiler. 

[Bobbers]

5 hours ago, azstu324 said:

I think the even mix of controllable length of 45" paired with the more active profile of the PLB has been a winner for a lot of us. Even compared to my 45" MotoreX, I'm just getting better launch, disbursement, and distance. Kind of having my cake and eating it too. It's kinda fun

I know it sounds like I'm hyping up the PLB a lot. But I also think that the Riptide was kind of a loop thrower for all of us. It kind of started us out in the general direction but maybe not exactly the right direction. I'm just saying, don't let the Riptide be the spoiler. 

The Pro Launch Blue has "survived" all these years for a reason; always been a pretty decent shaft that doesn't get a ton of hype or advertising, it's just "there".

[TheFonzzz]

PLB , adaptor and grip remover out for delivery today! 

[BrenkJ]

Is there any concern about having a completely different swing weight and flex for your driver (and possibly fairway wood) than for your irons and wedges?

For the PLB shaft, I'm assuming the one everyone is using is the 45, senior flex?

[Bobbers]

41 minutes ago, BrenkJ said:

Is there any concern about having a completely different swing weight and flex for your driver (and possibly fairway wood) than for your irons and wedges?

For the PLB shaft, I'm assuming the one everyone is using is the 45, senior flex?

Speaking only for myself I've not had any issues.  But come to think of it the swingweights throughout my bag are frighteningly close.

[cnosil]

43 minutes ago, BrenkJ said:

Is there any concern about having a completely different swing weight and flex for your driver (and possibly fairway wood) than for your irons and wedges?

For the PLB shaft, I'm assuming the one everyone is using is the 45, senior flex?

Most clubs have different swing weights unless you have them matched to be the same.  Typically you progress from lighter to heavier with wedges being the heaviest; some don’t follow that progression at all.  Flex is a non standard measurement so you probably have different flexes across your set.  I don’t know about you, but I don’t know my swingweight and am generally more concerned about performance and making each club perform its best.  
 

Reading through the thread, it seems a lot are playing the A flex and I have seen a few L.   The general recommendation for doing a cheap Autoflex is drop 2 flexes and 2 weight classes.  That is a generalization because there isn’t a standard flex measurement and a 60 gram shaft could be anywhere from say 55 to 69 grams uncut.  

[azstu324]

46 minutes ago, BrenkJ said:

Is there any concern about having a completely different swing weight and flex for your driver (and possibly fairway wood) than for your irons and wedges?

For the PLB shaft, I'm assuming the one everyone is using is the 45, senior flex?

So initially yes I was concerned that the swing weight might be an issue. Initially my SW for my driver was D5 and is what I've been playing for a few years. I do play a progressive SW in my irons so my wedges (56°, 50°, PW) are around D5, then D4 in 9-7, D3 6-5, D2 in my 22.5° 4 Driving iron, and D1 in my 24° 4h. 

What a lot of us are finding though is that the OttoPhlex D0-D1 SW doesn't actually feel as light as you'd expect. In fact, it mysteriously has some heft to it and the SW oddly feels closer to a D4 than a D0. I've found that it fits right in with my iron SW very nicely. I will add that throughout this whole process, my iron striking has unexpectedly improved. It could just be a weird coincidence but I'm kind of thinking that having improved tempo might be playing a factor. I've probably gained 5-10 yds in my irons and have all but eliminated my hard pull hook with better transitioning and timing. 

And for the PLB, you are correct. it's the 45g A or L flex depending on your current setup. 

[Bobbers]

42 minutes ago, BrenkJ said:

Is there any concern about having a completely different swing weight and flex for your driver (and possibly fairway wood) than for your irons and wedges?

For the PLB shaft, I'm assuming the one everyone is using is the 45, senior flex?

I'm one, and there are a few others in the thread, that are at the L flex level...

[BrenkJ]

1 minute ago, azstu324 said:

So initially yes I was concerned that the swing weight might be an issue. Initially my SW for my driver was D5 and is what I've been playing for a few years. I do play a progressive SW in my irons so my wedges (56°, 50°, PW) are around D5, then D4 in 9-7, D3 6-5, D2 in my 22.5° 4 Driving iron, and D1 in my 24° 4h. 

What a lot of us are finding though is that the OttoPhlex D0-D1 SW doesn't actually feel as light as light as you'd expect. In fact, it mysteriously has some heft to it and the SW oddly feels closer to a D4 than a D0. I've found that it fits right in with my iron SW very nicely. I will add that throughout this whole process, my iron striking has unexpectedly improved. It could just be a weird coincidence but I'm kind of thinking that having improved tempo might be playing a factor. I've probably gained 5-10 yds in my irons and have all but eliminated my hard pull hook with better transitioning and timing. 

And for the PLB, you are correct. it's the 45g A or L flex depending on your current setup. 

That's funny - I was thinking exactly the same thing.   My driver actually seems to feel a little heavier if anything.  I'm guessing that's because I'm feeling more load as a result of more flex (?).    My driver swing is different from all my swing for all my other clubs anyway (hitting up versus down), so maybe having a different feel for that one club is not a big deal.

[BadgerRick]

I'm waiting on my new PXG Gen 4 with the Riptide to be delivered today, but just from looking at the specs of the shaft, it's a mid flex point, and the Grafalloy is a low flex point. That may be the difference in what people are feeling, as well as launch angle and spin. After I hit the PXG and compare to my Callaway with the PLB I'll post my results

 

[BadgerRick]

Also, I get most of my shafts from Dallasgolf.com, they have so many shafts, and have some really amazing deals sometime, and install the adapter and grip if you want them to.

[BrenkJ]

16 minutes ago, BadgerRick said:

Also, I get most of my shafts from Dallasgolf.com, they have so many shafts, and have some really amazing deals sometime, and install the adapter and grip if you want them to.

Dallas Golf is awesome.   I live here in Dallas and I get most of my golf stuff there.

[PACK7483]

My brain over thinks things. But are most finding a lighter swing weight to work better?  Thinking about my PXG 0211 with the A flex Riptide CB.  Looking online stock SW is something like D3.  Wonder it cutting it down to 44.5 would make a difference?  That would get it closer to D0?  Other option is to buy a 2.5gram weight to replace the 10gram. Or just buy a PLB lol. 

[michaelcgolf]

An update for the PLB I got! 
I got it in the A flex for my stealth plus cut down to 45.5. It was at around D2 so I had an Arccos sensor laying around that weighs around 7-8 grams to put it around D0-D1. 

I went to the range 3 times this week to test it out and had mixed results. my wife did just have a baby 3 weeks ago so we’re a little sleep deprived. That played a part on my swing. 
 

My misses were super high push slices. These are misses I would have on any shaft so I think the misses were due to my swing being off rather than it bring the shaft’s fault. 
 

I don’t know my average swing speed but on a good day, I carry my drives to around 265/270. I’m 27 years old, 6’3”, and slender. I played baseball growing up and started playing golf when Covid hit like everyone else. Because of my baseball background, I feel like I was able to progress quicker than my friends and have quicker speed. 
 

The driving range I go to has a high net at the end of the range. The bottom of the net ends at 268 yards with my rangefinder. With my stock shaft, I can carry it to the lower bottom of the net on a good drive. maybe around 270 carry? 
With the PLB, my good drives would carry towards the middle part of the net. I’m guessing it would carry to around 285+ if the net wasn’t there. I feel like I don’t have to swing as hard to get speed. 
dispersion wise, I can’t comment too much on it because my swing was just off. I’ll give another update after my first round with it this Saturday. 
Thank you for such a fun project Stu! 

[Kondo]

Today was the trial run for me and the Grafalloy Pro Launch 45 L.  I have a Foresight Quad and used it on the range as well as when I played today. I only hit 10 balls on the range and was pretty discouraged.  I was very long 5 years ago before shoulder replacement and of course AGE. I am 70 now .... I drive it like a 20 handicap and the short game of a +5. My swing speed was 85 mph at the start. Flight is very high with 8 degree Titleist TSI4 driver. Spin was 2100, launch 20 and angle of attach +7.6. All that being said, the last hole had my best drive with 90.1 mph and 218 carry. That is 10 yards more than my Ventus Velocore S60. The swing weight was D1.5 and I cut a quarter inch off and now it is right on D0. My stock driver is C 6.5 at 44.5. I lengthened my current driver to 45.25 to get the swing weight closer.

With all that ... I believe the more flexible shaft is a real benefit to me because of a too fast tempo and not setting the club at the top.  It was creeping into my irons too ... everything was working I believe because you have to wait on the shaft.  I will be playing the next 15 days or so with some tournaments and I hope to see continued improvement. 

Good luck to everyone on this trek. 

[Bobbers]

6 hours ago, michaelcgolf said:

An update for the PLB I got! 
I got it in the A flex for my stealth plus cut down to 45.5. It was at around D2 so I had an Arccos sensor laying around that weighs around 7-8 grams to put it around D0-D1. 

I went to the range 3 times this week to test it out and had mixed results. my wife did just have a baby 3 weeks ago so we’re a little sleep deprived. That played a part on my swing. 
 

My misses were super high push slices. These are misses I would have on any shaft so I think the misses were due to my swing being off rather than it bring the shaft’s fault. 
 

I don’t know my average swing speed but on a good day, I carry my drives to around 265/270. I’m 27 years old, 6’3”, and slender. I played baseball growing up and started playing golf when Covid hit like everyone else. Because of my baseball background, I feel like I was able to progress quicker than my friends and have quicker speed. 
 

The driving range I go to has a high net at the end of the range. The bottom of the net ends at 268 yards with my rangefinder. With my stock shaft, I can carry it to the lower bottom of the net on a good drive. maybe around 270 carry? 
With the PLB, my good drives would carry towards the middle part of the net. I’m guessing it would carry to around 285+ if the net wasn’t there. I feel like I don’t have to swing as hard to get speed. 
dispersion wise, I can’t comment too much on it because my swing was just off. I’ll give another update after my first round with it this Saturday. 
Thank you for such a fun project Stu! 

Sounds like a good result, similar to what one would expect from the $850  shaft.  Looking forward to hearing how it goes for you on Saturday.

[Bobbers]

5 hours ago, Kondo said:

Today was the trial run for me and the Grafalloy Pro Launch 45 L.  I have a Foresight Quad and used it on the range as well as when I played today. I only hit 10 balls on the range and was pretty discouraged.  I was very long 5 years ago before shoulder replacement and of course AGE. I am 70 now .... I drive it like a 20 handicap and the short game of a +5. My swing speed was 85 mph at the start. Flight is very high with 8 degree Titleist TSI4 driver. Spin was 2100, launch 20 and angle of attach +7.6. All that being said, the last hole had my best drive with 90.1 mph and 218 carry. That is 10 yards more than my Ventus Velocore S60. The swing weight was D1.5 and I cut a quarter inch off and now it is right on D0. My stock driver is C 6.5 at 44.5. I lengthened my current driver to 45.25 to get the swing weight closer.

With all that ... I believe the more flexible shaft is a real benefit to me because of a too fast tempo and not setting the club at the top.  It was creeping into my irons too ... everything was working I believe because you have to wait on the shaft.  I will be playing the next 15 days or so with some tournaments and I hope to see continued improvement. 

Good luck to everyone on this trek. 

Looking forward to hearing your updates.

[Gripit]

On 10/20/2022 at 8:09 AM, TheFonzzz said:

PLB , adaptor and grip remover out for delivery today! 

Mine will be here tomorrow!!!!

[GolfSpy TCB]

PLB 45-L in hand.  Will be visiting my golf shop this morning to get it fitted with the titleist tip, and discuss how to ensure it is at a D0 SW when gripped and fit into my TSi3.  Probably won't have it in play until next week, but I'm looking forward to putting it through its paces.  I need to go back and read where other landed on length.  My initial thought is to match the length of my current shaft (standard length which I believe is 45.5) but wondering about 46"?

[Bobbers]

17 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

PLB 45-L in hand.  Will be visiting my golf shop this morning to get it fitted with the titleist tip, and discuss how to ensure it is at a D0 SW when gripped and fit into my TSi3.  Probably won't have it in play until next week, but I'm looking forward to putting it through its paces.  I need to go back and read where other landed on length.  My initial thought is to match the length of my current shaft (standard length which I believe is 45.5) but wondering about 46"?

If you can land between 45.5 and 46 and hit the D0-D1 swing weight you'll be in the right zone to evaluate the concept.  And if your golf guy needs to add a few grams in the butt end to get you there please go for it, it won't be an issue when you put the club in play.

[cnosil]

10 hours ago, PACK7483 said:

My brain over thinks things. But are most finding a lighter swing weight to work better?  Thinking about my PXG 0211 with the A flex Riptide CB.  Looking online stock SW is something like D3.  Wonder it cutting it down to 44.5 would make a difference?  That would get it closer to D0?  Other option is to buy a 2.5gram weight to replace the 10gram. Or just buy a PLB lol. 

That’s what we do on this forum…..overthink.   This Experiment is about trying what other people overthought and them applying out thoughts to that.  Basically lots of overthinking.   
yes,  but cutting a shaft reduces SW.   here are the general guideline for SW adjustment; they may vary based on the actual shaft or other factors.

 

Cutting 1/2″ off grip end of shaft- 3 SW decrease

Adding 2 grams to clubhead- 1 SW increase

Adding 5 grams to grip end of shaft- 1 SW decrease

3 layers of masking buildup tape under grip- 1 SW (ex: 90 g shaft=1 SW more than 80 g shaft)

Flattening lie angle 4 degrees- 1 SW increase

Shaft weight lowered 9 grams- 1 SW decrease

4.5 inches of normal 1/2 inch wide lead tape- 1 SW point or 2 grams

3.15 inches of “high density” 1/2 inch wide lead tape - 1 SW point or 2 grams

[GolfSpy TCB]

2 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

If you can land between 45.5 and 46 and hit the D0-D1 swing weight you'll be in the right zone to evaluate the concept.  And if your golf guy needs to add a few grams in the butt end to get you there please go for it, it won't be an issue when you put the club in play.

Thanks Bobbers,

I am definitely SOLD on targeting the swing weight... the logic in my brain tells me that is a key to making the softer flex more consistent, even more than a lighter total weight.  My concern is that the TSi3 head will be difficult to offset at the butt end counter weight, but it sounds like everyone else on the site has found a way to make it work.  I just don't want to have to shorten the length to hit the swing weight target.  

[Bobbers]

42 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Thanks Bobbers,

I am definitely SOLD on targeting the swing weight... the logic in my brain tells me that is a key to making the softer flex more consistent, even more than a lighter total weight.  My concern is that the TSi3 head will be difficult to offset at the butt end counter weight, but it sounds like everyone else on the site has found a way to make it work.  I just don't want to have to shorten the length to hit the swing weight target.  

When I build/modify clubs I "dry fit" the components.  Shaft and head in the scale, grip balanced on top, have the club pulled out however much the butt end of the grip is going to add to the finished length, etc.  Gives me a +/- .5 swing weight accuracy pretty much every time.

Just food for thought.

[azstu324]

48 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

When I build/modify clubs I "dry fit" the components.  Shaft and head in the scale, grip balanced on top, have the club pulled out however much the butt end of the grip is going to add to the finished length, etc.  Gives me a +/- .5 swing weight accuracy pretty much every time.

Just food for thought.

Another trick that I've used to get the SW down is to use aluminum HVAC duct tape for build up instead of masking tape. It takes up the same amount of real estate but weighs 2X more. 

[BadgerRick]

2 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Thanks Bobbers,

I am definitely SOLD on targeting the swing weight... the logic in my brain tells me that is a key to making the softer flex more consistent, even more than a lighter total weight.  My concern is that the TSi3 head will be difficult to offset at the butt end counter weight, but it sounds like everyone else on the site has found a way to make it work.  I just don't want to have to shorten the length to hit the swing weight target.  

why not take out the weight on the head? or use a lighter one? I'm not sure what the stock weight weighs in that head, but I'm sure Titleist sells different weights.

[GolfSpy TCB]

Definitely an option @BadgerRick

As it turns out, my shop was able to install the new tip and grip and targeted the D0 weight - and according to him... they hit their mark.  I will measure it to double check when I get home.  So - TSi3 with PLB 45-L, 45.5", D0.

So as I'm walking out the door, I asked if the epoxy was dry enough to take a few swings - it was, so over to the GC3 I went.  As I expected, it took me a few swings to loosen up, and dial in the flex... not going to surprise anyone here to say that my first 5 or 6 shots were high right.  But as I started to get the feel of the shaft, I was hitting some really nice numbers (comparitively to my existing swing and previous shaft... ).  My dispersion was a bit wide, but my ball speed, launch angle, ball spin and carry distance were all improved.  And by the time I got past about 30 swings, I was hitting a 15 yard dispersion circle with the target line right in the center.  Some nice tight draws, some nice "fall to the right" fades, and some dead straight down the middle.  I swapped shafts to my normal Tensei AV Blue Reg Flex, just to be sure I had apples to apples comparison, and I lost about 7 yards average carry, ball speed down a bit, spin was higher, launch angle was lower, and I was having trouble squaring the face (block right with a fade). 

Now this is just one short LM session, in my button down (but I don't swing hard enough for that to matter if truth be told... one of my better rounds this year I shot straight out of the office to the course wearing my button down because I forgot a golf shirt in the car), so more experimenting and comparing to come... but I'm not mad at it.  My tech watched me hit several shots, and then asked... "have you ever heard of an AutoFlex shaft?"  I took a moment to discuss this thread with him... maybe a new future member to the forum  

[azstu324]

34 minutes ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Definitely an option @BadgerRick

As it turns out, my shop was able to install the new tip and grip and targeted the D0 weight - and according to him... they hit their mark.  I will measure it to double check when I get home.  So - TSi3 with PLB 45-L, 45.5", D0.

So as I'm walking out the door, I asked if the epoxy was dry enough to take a few swings - it was, so over to the GC3 I went.  As I expected, it took me a few swings to loosen up, and dial in the flex... not going to surprise anyone here to say that my first 5 or 6 shots were high right.  But as I started to get the feel of the shaft, I was hitting some really nice numbers (comparitively to my existing swing and previous shaft... ).  My dispersion was a bit wide, but my ball speed, launch angle, ball spin and carry distance were all improved.  And by the time I got past about 30 swings, I was hitting a 15 yard dispersion circle with the target line right in the center.  Some nice tight draws, some nice "fall to the right" fades, and some dead straight down the middle.  I swapped shafts to my normal Tensei AV Blue Reg Flex, just to be sure I had apples to apples comparison, and I lost about 7 yards average carry, ball speed down a bit, spin was higher, launch angle was lower, and I was having trouble squaring the face (block right with a fade). 

Now this is just one short LM session, in my button down (but I don't swing hard enough for that to matter if truth be told... one of my better rounds this year I shot straight out of the office to the course wearing my button down because I forgot a golf shirt in the car), so more experimenting and comparing to come... but I'm not mad at it.  My tech watched me hit several shots, and then asked... "have you ever heard of an AutoFlex shaft?"  I took a moment to discuss this thread with him... maybe a new future member to the forum  

Awesome quick write up on your first impression! VERY promising based on how mine and other's opening sessions went. It took probably a full session to get mostly acquainted with the feeling but it's not like it was  trying to figure out how to use the shaft so much as "wow, this feels different, but really good and is actually working!" And from there it just seems to get better and better. 

Can't wait to hear about your progression! 

 

[Bobbers]

Nice day here today, for a change.

Took the 5 wood with the Bassara L flex shaft to the range.

PXG 0211 5 wood with, you guessed it, a D0 swing weight.

Set at 18 degrees.  Nice penetrating ball flight, average distance based on where my shots usually land rather than a launch monitor was 10-14 yards further than normal.  Keeping in mind my slow swing speed that, for me, is a LOT of gain.

For fun I measured the cpm of the shaft before I worked up the club.  A delightfully "mushy" 219 cpm with the shaft at 43 inches in length.  That, my friends, is soft as a marshmallow.

[BadgerRick]

1 hour ago, Bobbers said:

Nice day here today, for a change.

Took the 5 wood with the Bassara L flex shaft to the range.

PXG 0211 5 wood with, you guessed it, a D0 swing weight.

Set at 18 degrees.  Nice penetrating ball flight, average distance based on where my shots usually land rather than a launch monitor was 10-14 yards further than normal.  Keeping in mind my slow swing speed that, for me, is a LOT of gain.

For fun I measured the cpm of the shaft before I worked up the club.  A delightfully "mushy" 219 cpm with the shaft at 43 inches in length.  That, my friends, is soft as a marshmallow.

Holy crap, a lot of the long drive guys are using the TPT 21 hi shaft. 45 grams and 205 cpm's. We're talking guys swinging 150mph or so. That has to be a noodle, but when timed right, they're going 400 plus yards.