Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[Bang60]

5 hours ago, IndyBonzo said:

We are striking out @Bang60!  No answers!

Yeah I see that, I asked a question about my Mizuno STZ hybrid and got answered quick. Maybe we need to start another topic as I've noticed that additional feedback doesn't happen, ..

[Iamsecond116]

Well I ended up getting everything to spec with a G400 max head. Length, swing weight at D2, ratchet lift down to 8*, etc etc. Numbers are very similar based off ball speed reading with PRGR as with my normal shaft. It seems to me though that the balls were flying great but kind of falling out of the sky quickly, especially if I moved the loft to 8.5*. 
 

Any suggestions here? Is the G400 max too high MOI of a driver for this to work well? Or am I missing something? I haven’t played with it on the course or with non-range golf balls, so maybe that’s a component to it? Any feedback is appreciated!

[azstu324]

3 hours ago, Iamsecond116 said:

Well I ended up getting everything to spec with a G400 max head. Length, swing weight at D2, ratchet lift down to 8*, etc etc. Numbers are very similar based off ball speed reading with PRGR as with my normal shaft. It seems to me though that the balls were flying great but kind of falling out of the sky quickly, especially if I moved the loft to 8.5*. 
 

Any suggestions here? Is the G400 max too high MOI of a driver for this to work well? Or am I missing something? I haven’t played with it on the course or with non-range golf balls, so maybe that’s a component to it? Any feedback is appreciated!

I would definitely suggest getting some real ball results before concluding that something is off. From everything I've read about range balls, most of them are going to have some sort of flight limitation.. whether it be extra thick hard covers, rock hard cores, or both. They are designed to fall out of the sky as to be contained in a limited area. I've taken some retired balls with me to the range and there is definitely a major difference in how they react. 

If you don't see a difference on the course, then you can go back to the drawing board. Remember, you are basically re fitting yourself. You may even find that your previous game ball might require a swap out. I actually had to switch to a ball that spun a little more due to having a less than optimal spin rate with the OttoPhlex due to optimizing my attack angle. 

[Ding-dong]

I used the ball to refine my output as well.. I always needed a bit more spin, but also I wanted to alter my club face angle to max my ball speed. 
I use Srixon AD 333 / Q Tour , Titleist Pro V1 / Tour Soft …. But the mainstay is the AD 333 , it just is better for me than all the rest ( and it’s so cheap, shooting low to mid 70s scores with what the snobs perceive to be a hacker’s ball = priceless) 

[IndyBonzo]

I too had to change balls to lower spin, but get good results now.  Good luck!

[IndyBonzo]

I posted the question again in the Maltby Clubmaking forum, and received a response that the Maltby M890 LL flex is the shaft that tested with a very similar profile to the Autoflex.  I have one on the way for only $25.  Will report back …

[Nolan220]

Haven’t posted here in awhile but I’m still using my Aflex project x shaft for my driver, I have a skytrak and decided to do a driving fitting of my own with 4 shafts and two regular flex, 1 stiff and the A flex … A flex performed the best in consistency stiff had some long ones but just wasn’t consistent the two def flex were so so .. I also add some lead tape it’s been great having the best driving rounds of my life

[azstu324]

12 minutes ago, Nolan220 said:

Haven’t posted here in awhile but I’m still using my Aflex project x shaft for my driver, I have a skytrak and decided to do a driving fitting of my own with 4 shafts and two regular flex, 1 stiff and the A flex … A flex performed the best in consistency stiff had some long ones but just wasn’t consistent the two def flex were so so .. I also add some lead tape it’s been great having the best driving rounds of my life

One of the things that I've concluded with the OP is that the results are much more repeatable because you're not swing out of your shoes for distance. 

Like Bob Lee Swagger put it.. 

 

 

[Vernon]

Haven't posted in awhile but after playing the GolfWorks/Grafalloy 55 gram shaft in my driver for several weeks and being most pleased with the results I decided to plug the Pro Launch back in a couple of weeks ago just cause and to say that the mind is a terrible thing is an understatement.

I had convinced myself that the GW/Grafalloy shaft was the answer but about three tee shots later I'm back to being solidly on the Pro Launch bandwagon and have played my last half a dozen rounds with it and think I'm gonna stick with it (famous last words I know).

Anyways as much as I like the GW shaft the Pro Launch is just easier to swing, has more "feel" at impact and seems to be just a little bit longer overall.

Played a couple of rounds down at Big Cedar in Branson last week and got paired both days with guys less than half my age that were blown away by how far a seventy year old dinosaur could hit it past them (on occasion anyways).  

Hadn't had that kind of confidence off the tee on a course away from home in quite some time.

In fact, I ordered another PL in Ladies that showed up yesterday that I'm going to put in my G430 five wood and think I'm gonna cut the GW shaft down to try in my seven or nine wood.

Still trying to decide what to do with the MP5 but I'm sure it'll all shake out - might try it in a fairway wood as well as it's already cut down a half inch more than I have ended up preferring in my driver.

Never say never but I'm gonna stick with the Pro Launch for the foreseeable future and with colder weather being right around the corner might shift my focus to fairway wood fitting for the time being.

Need to figure out tip trimming next.

 

 

[azstu324]

On 9/24/2023 at 7:56 AM, Vernon said:

Haven't posted in awhile but after playing the GolfWorks/Grafalloy 55 gram shaft in my driver for several weeks and being most pleased with the results I decided to plug the Pro Launch back in a couple of weeks ago just cause and to say that the mind is a terrible thing is an understatement.

I had convinced myself that the GW/Grafalloy shaft was the answer but about three tee shots later I'm back to being solidly on the Pro Launch bandwagon and have played my last half a dozen rounds with it and think I'm gonna stick with it (famous last words I know).

Anyways as much as I like the GW shaft the Pro Launch is just easier to swing, has more "feel" at impact and seems to be just a little bit longer overall.

Played a couple of rounds down at Big Cedar in Branson last week and got paired both days with guys less than half my age that were blown away by how far a seventy year old dinosaur could hit it past them (on occasion anyways).  

Hadn't had that kind of confidence off the tee on a course away from home in quite some time.

In fact, I ordered another PL in Ladies that showed up yesterday that I'm going to put in my G430 five wood and think I'm gonna cut the GW shaft down to try in my seven or nine wood.

Still trying to decide what to do with the MP5 but I'm sure it'll all shake out - might try it in a fairway wood as well as it's already cut down a half inch more than I have ended up preferring in my driver.

Never say never but I'm gonna stick with the Pro Launch for the foreseeable future and with colder weather being right around the corner might shift my focus to fairway wood fitting for the time being.

Need to figure out tip trimming next.

 

 

FWIW, the GW Garafalloy makes a really great fairway wood shaft. When I had the same issues using it in the driver, moving it to my 3 wood was a great option. 

[Vernon]

On 9/25/2023 at 11:20 AM, azstu324 said:

FWIW, the GW Garafalloy makes a really great fairway wood shaft. When I had the same issues using it in the driver, moving it to my 3 wood was a great option. 

Thanks for that.  

Curious as to how much you tipped it?  I think Golf Works recommends 2" for fairway applications but the spec sheet is downstairs and I'm too lazy to go get it at the moment.

As for the Pro Launch/five wood experiment, I'm beginning to think the project is cursed.

Installed the shaft in the G430 tip adapter and on the second swing the next day on the range the head flew off.

Reglued a different G430 tip the night before last and yesterday when I got to the range the screw in the tip adapter wouldn't fit.  

WTF?

Anyways, gonna try again today.

For what it's worth I DO NOT recommend the "new" Golf Works adapter adhesive.

It's supposed to be specially formulated for gluing graphite to the aluminum type adapter tips.

Yeah, well, I've had FOUR failures in six attempts with this stuff and although I'm pretty meticulous with my shaft tip prep when I made the most recent Pro Launch purchase I payed the extra $2.95 to have THEM do the tip prep and as I previously mentioned the head came off on the second swing.

I don't recall ever having an epoxy failure in at least twenty years prior.

[IndyBonzo]

That's strange @Vernon.  I have not been making clubs long, but I have never had an epoxy failure in about 20 clubs myself, regardless of using quick setting or long setting epoxy.

[Vernon]

11 minutes ago, IndyBonzo said:

That's strange @Vernon.  I have not been making clubs long, but I have never had an epoxy failure in about 20 clubs myself, regardless of using quick setting or long setting epoxy.

Yeah I don't get it either and I've been doing this stuff for a long time.  

I ain't saying I'm good at it but zero failures to this is ridiculous.

Most of the reviews are positive to glowing although there are several reviews on Amazon that seem to parallel my experience.

I really want this stuff to work too - it's inexpensive and easy to use.

I've used predominantly Golf Works Tour Set over the years and never had a problem.

I ordered a new tube with the Pro Launch but can't report on its effectiveness as I only used it on the tip that the screw didn't fit (which by the way was MY fault).

I installed the wrong one by accident and I used some leftover Tour Set for the redo but I do intend to give the "offending" glue another chance.

 

[IndyBonzo]

Digression - but how do you get the adapter off without ruining it?  Last time I tried I got it so hot the adapter was jacked, but I had to do it to remove the adapter.  It wouldn't budge.  I've decided to take shafts to my golf shop if I want to save the adapter.

I just use epoxy from Lowe's or Harbor Freight.  Never had an issue.  Good luck figuring it out!

[azstu324]

3 hours ago, Vernon said:

Yeah I don't get it either and I've been doing this stuff for a long time.  

I ain't saying I'm good at it but zero failures to this is ridiculous.

Most of the reviews are positive to glowing although there are several reviews on Amazon that seem to parallel my experience.

I really want this stuff to work too - it's inexpensive and easy to use.

I've used predominantly Golf Works Tour Set over the years and never had a problem.

I ordered a new tube with the Pro Launch but can't report on its effectiveness as I only used it on the tip that the screw didn't fit (which by the way was MY fault).

I installed the wrong one by accident and I used some leftover Tour Set for the redo but I do intend to give the "offending" glue another chance.

 

I've read about bad batches that may have sat on the shelf for too long but I'm taking that as a product management issue but who really knows? 

I've been using the GW quick set for a little while now. I like that it's thicker and pretty much eliminates the need for centering beads and as long as you have a good process it's great to work with. I have also used the standard stuff when I know I have the time to let it sit and haven't noticed any specific issues. With this most recent set built for my dad I tried the Tour Set + but don't anticipate any issues. 

All that said, I have had a set or 2 in the past where multiple shafts have come loose but I'm not convinced that it was the glue and attributed it to my own failure in prep and curing conditions. When mixing the epoxy, I use a paper plate and make sure to rotate the plate 3 or 4 times while mixing to make sure it's really mixed well. Also, I had discovered that it's best to let the shafts dry vertically rather than laid horizontally on a table (probably common knowledge). Vertically allows for the epoxy to settle evenly and seal around the shaft and the inner walls. After taking these clubs apart, I saw that the glue inside the shaft settled to one side so decided that laying them down may not be the best way to cure the glue. The reason I knew it wasn't the glue is that I re built the same set with the shafts cured vertically with the same epoxy and continued that with many sets afterwards using the same epoxy and did not have any further issues. 

I'm not in any way inferring that you are doing anything incorrectly but just sharing my live/learn experiences relating to shafts coming loose

[Vernon]

22 hours ago, IndyBonzo said:

Digression - but how do you get the adapter off without ruining it?  Last time I tried I got it so hot the adapter was jacked, but I had to do it to remove the adapter.  It wouldn't budge.  I've decided to take shafts to my golf shop if I want to save the adapter.

I just use epoxy from Lowe's or Harbor Freight.  Never had an issue.  Good luck figuring it out!

I pull the tips as opposed to "pushing" them off.

Billy Bob's sells a little kit that has a variety of screws that are designed to fit each adapter tip.  There's also a little washer that slips over the screw and that's where the force to remove the tip is applied.  I actually find it to work WAY better and you don't ruin the the rubber ferrules that some adapter tips have instead of plastic ferrules.

I just noticed the other day that Golf Works sells a similar deal that's less than half the price of Billy Bob's.

In my opinion it doesn't take as much heat to get the tip off either.

As a side note the tip I installed yesterday morning using the old Tour Set epoxy that I still had seems to have worked fine.

[Vernon]

18 hours ago, azstu324 said:

I've read about bad batches that may have sat on the shelf for too long but I'm taking that as a product management issue but who really knows? 

I've been using the GW quick set for a little while now. I like that it's thicker and pretty much eliminates the need for centering beads and as long as you have a good process it's great to work with. I have also used the standard stuff when I know I have the time to let it sit and haven't noticed any specific issues. With this most recent set built for my dad I tried the Tour Set + but don't anticipate any issues. 

All that said, I have had a set or 2 in the past where multiple shafts have come loose but I'm not convinced that it was the glue and attributed it to my own failure in prep and curing conditions. When mixing the epoxy, I use a paper plate and make sure to rotate the plate 3 or 4 times while mixing to make sure it's really mixed well. Also, I had discovered that it's best to let the shafts dry vertically rather than laid horizontally on a table (probably common knowledge). Vertically allows for the epoxy to settle evenly and seal around the shaft and the inner walls. After taking these clubs apart, I saw that the glue inside the shaft settled to one side so decided that laying them down may not be the best way to cure the glue. The reason I knew it wasn't the glue is that I re built the same set with the shafts cured vertically with the same epoxy and continued that with many sets afterwards using the same epoxy and did not have any further issues. 

I'm not in any way inferring that you are doing anything incorrectly but just sharing my live/learn experiences relating to shafts coming loose

I appreciate the input but honestly it sounds like we're going about it in pretty much the same way.

I'm typically pretty meticulous in how I go about doing this stuff but there have been times in the past when I've been in a hurry and maybe didn't prep quite as good as I typically would or maybe cheated on the drying time a little bit and STILL never had a failure until recently.

And in each of the cases of failure I actually did do it right and gave each one more than adequate time to dry.

Just don't get it but I suppose crazier things have happened in the world in the last few weeks!

[Vernon]

Oh and I almost forgot the most important part!

The Pro Launch in the G430 five wood performed magnificently!

Granted it's only one day and maybe a dozen balls but I was very pleased with every aspect of how the shaft performed although I gotta say it feels really "whippy".

In my hands much more so than it does in the driver anyways.

Nonetheless (and similar to the PL in the driver) a nice smooth tempo and the ball just jumps off of the face.

I only hit six or seven balls on the range but I hit it six times on the course and every shot was near perfect.

Playing again today and hoping to get the Golf Works/Grafalloy tipped and trimmed and ready to go in a fairway wood by the weekend.  

This stuff is WAY more fun than any job I ever had!

 

[MuniGolfer]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:01 AM, Vernon said:

Thanks for that.  

Curious as to how much you tipped it?  I think Golf Works recommends 2" for fairway applications but the spec sheet is downstairs and I'm too lazy to go get it at the moment.

As for the Pro Launch/five wood experiment, I'm beginning to think the project is cursed.

Installed the shaft in the G430 tip adapter and on the second swing the next day on the range the head flew off.

Reglued a different G430 tip the night before last and yesterday when I got to the range the screw in the tip adapter wouldn't fit.  

WTF?

Anyways, gonna try again today.

For what it's worth I DO NOT recommend the "new" Golf Works adapter adhesive.

It's supposed to be specially formulated for gluing graphite to the aluminum type adapter tips.

Yeah, well, I've had FOUR failures in six attempts with this stuff and although I'm pretty meticulous with my shaft tip prep when I made the most recent Pro Launch purchase I payed the extra $2.95 to have THEM do the tip prep and as I previously mentioned the head came off on the second swing.

I don't recall ever having an epoxy failure in at least twenty years prior.

I bought the same epoxy when I started this project. I have had the opposite issue. I haven’t had a head pop off or anything yet, but when I have tried to remove the tip I have to get it way hotter than anything I have ever done before. I wouldn’t buy this epoxy again.

[IndyBonzo]

A very brief update on the Maltby M890 LL shaft in this experiment:  I only hit it a few times on the course and have not had the chance to take it to the range yet.  I have not been practicing driver like I was early in the summer because I have been hitting a driving iron a lot just to dial it in, so these preliminary results are definitely just that - preliminary.  But I can say (a) it is not as whippy as I expected; (b) it is slightly more flexible than the MP5, but not a lot more; and (c) I had roughly the same distance as the MP5; (d) dispersion was bad (which I likely would have been the same with the MP5 given my lack of practice).  I think if I really slow it down like we are supposed to, it will work.  Will keep trying, actually practice, and report back.

[azstu324]

Hey so question for anyone still following along before I post a thread in the main room.. 

This doesn't have much to do with the OP so I guess technically I'm hijacking my own thread.. but everyone here has been so incredibly awesome to work that I figured I'd start here. 

"Weight loss and the driver swing". I've recently shed about 30 lbs in a fairly short period (2 months). I intend to to keep going for another 20 lbs. I've found that my driver swing has completed gone to hell in a hand basket. It's almost like I lost all of my tempo and I'm just way ahead of myself. Snap hooks are back and I'm just having a hell of a time trying to find my tempo again. 

Has anybody else experienced anything like this? I'm kind of perplexed as to what to do. My irons seem ok but my driver that used to be my golden ticket is the worst it's been in a long while. 

I'm sure I'll figure a solution but I'm just curious if this is a real thing happening and not just me looking for excuses

Thanks y'all!

 

Stu

 

[Gemba2]

Well to start with I hope the weight loss was intentional.

It wouldn't surprise me if the weight didn't start the problem, but at this point it may be more in your head than not.  I'm just coming out of a 2-3 month stretch of self inflicted driver pain.Started with changing the driver head. At it's worse I couldn't hit a tee shot over 150 yds, maybe.  For me I just had to start over slow. You haven't forgotten how to hit a driver, you just need to make a couple minor changes to adjust for the the new sleeker, more athletic, you!

So bottom line, I have little to offer except golfer support.  Hang in there.

Now go eat a salad.

 

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, Gemba2 said:

Well to start with I hope the weight loss was intentional.

It wouldn't surprise me if the weight didn't start the problem, but at this point it may be more in your head than not.  I'm just coming out of a 2-3 month stretch of self inflicted driver pain.Started with changing the driver head. At it's worse I couldn't hit a tee shot over 150 yds, maybe.  For me I just had to start over slow. You haven't forgotten how to hit a driver, you just need to make a couple minor changes to adjust for the the new sleeker, more athletic, you!

So bottom line, I have little to offer except golfer support.  Hang in there.

Now go eat a salad.

 

Ha ha yeah so the weight loss is definitely intentional. It's been a little while coming. I'm what you'd call a rollercoaster eater. I played a lot of sports and did martial arts when I was younger so exercise and diet is not foreign to me. My body still seems to react fairly quickly and positively to eliminations of certain "habits". On the other side of the coin, I'm 44 and am a foodie by heart. I love to cook.. and eat. So when I'm not making the best dietary choices, my body also reacts very quickly . 

I'm pretty sure I've gone through this phase before where my body is all of a sudden turning faster.. and my arms even faster than just recent previous months. I just don't recall how I adapted and my game at that time hadn't progressed as much as it has recently. I guess I need to spend a few hours at the range (which I haven't done since losing weight) and really deliberately slow down, find a good flow again, and then work on speeding that up with everything more in synch. 

2 hours ago, Gemba2 said:

Now go eat a salad.

LOL this is actually something that I'm not doing any of this this time around. Might seem extreme but only and water. I've actually never felt more energized and satisfied and cravings for sweets and junk food are non-existent. 

Either way, thanks for the words and support. I may still start that thread just to see what falls out of the tree. 

 

Cheers! 

[Ding-dong]

To be honest I have done two huge weight drops. The first time I dropped 220+ lbs to 130-140lbs … I noticed my distance was off. There is a sweet spot, was my conclusion.

I have recently gone from 200lbs down to 130lbs ( increasing again ) but I confirmed there is a sweet spot. The joints are less stressed and the body swings or moves freely. However you need to have some weight to keep the balance is my feeling…

 

[Josh Parker]

Just ordered a Fujikura Air Speeder Red 45 for my attempt at this theory.  I ended up picking it up for $45 with adapter and grip so I figured the price was right to try it out.  

[IndyBonzo]

@azstu324 I definitely had this problem.  I lost 60+ lbs, and it absolutely impacted my swing, and I had to work to get it back (which I did).

Now, I have had some injuries and have been out of the gym for about two months, so while not putting on weight my core and upper body is weaker and maybe more limber in the arms.  The result?  I hit driver just as far, but am spraying it both left and right (and nearly never straight).  So yeah, it absolutely has an impact, and I have to commit to working on it to get it back.  Like you, it was stellar in the spring/early summer, and now I cannot control it enough to have confidence in it.

On the OP note, I did hit a drive that amazed my friends this weekend.  First time golfing with a couple of my new buddies, and hit a driver longer than I expected to, through the right side of rough, skirting the adjoining fairway, and into the ditch 330 yards away.  Had it been straight the outcome would have been the same.  I really need to dial that in before some semi-competitive golf planned for early December.  Off to the sims I go!  But I love that distance.

Good luck with your experiment @jdparker!  Please let us know how it goes!

[azstu324]

17 minutes ago, IndyBonzo said:

@azstu324 I definitely had this problem.  I lost 60+ lbs, and it absolutely impacted my swing, and I had to work to get it back (which I did).

Now, I have had some injuries and have been out of the gym for about two months, so while not putting on weight my core and upper body is weaker and maybe more limber in the arms.  The result?  I hit driver just as far, but am spraying it both left and right (and nearly never straight).  So yeah, it absolutely has an impact, and I have to commit to working on it to get it back.  Like you, it was stellar in the spring/early summer, and now I cannot control it enough to have confidence in it.

On the OP note, I did hit a drive that amazed my friends this weekend.  First time golfing with a couple of my new buddies, and hit a driver longer than I expected to, through the right side of rough, skirting the adjoining fairway, and into the ditch 330 yards away.  Had it been straight the outcome would have been the same.  I really need to dial that in before some semi-competitive golf planned for early December.  Off to the sims I go!  But I love that distance.

Good luck with your experiment @jdparker!  Please let us know how it goes!

Good to know that it is actually "a thing" and not just my imagination. 

As for OP, I wholeheartedly believe in the concept and don't think I'll ever go back. As far as I'm concerned, it's the OP concept that will help me find my new swing and even more speed and distance when things come together. 

Thanks for the post! 

[Josh Parker]

23 minutes ago, IndyBonzo said:

@azstu324 I definitely had this problem.  I lost 60+ lbs, and it absolutely impacted my swing, and I had to work to get it back (which I did).

Now, I have had some injuries and have been out of the gym for about two months, so while not putting on weight my core and upper body is weaker and maybe more limber in the arms.  The result?  I hit driver just as far, but am spraying it both left and right (and nearly never straight).  So yeah, it absolutely has an impact, and I have to commit to working on it to get it back.  Like you, it was stellar in the spring/early summer, and now I cannot control it enough to have confidence in it.

On the OP note, I did hit a drive that amazed my friends this weekend.  First time golfing with a couple of my new buddies, and hit a driver longer than I expected to, through the right side of rough, skirting the adjoining fairway, and into the ditch 330 yards away.  Had it been straight the outcome would have been the same.  I really need to dial that in before some semi-competitive golf planned for early December.  Off to the sims I go!  But I love that distance.

Good luck with your experiment @jdparker!  Please let us know how it goes!

I will for sure.  I'm looking forward to testing it out.

[golfcoach.jp]

5 hours ago, azstu324 said:

Good to know that it is actually "a thing" and not just my imagination. 

As for OP, I wholeheartedly believe in the concept and don't think I'll ever go back. As far as I'm concerned, it's the OP concept that will help me find my new swing and even more speed and distance when things come together. 

Thanks for the post! 

I haven't experienced a significant weight loss, though losing 20 lbs. would do me some good. I coach high school golf and played at Georgia Tech many moons ago. I think The Orange Whip is the best tempo trainer around, especially for driver. If you don't have one, get one. Swing it for a while, just getting everything to sync up. Then alternate hitting drives with swinging it. One drive, one swing with the whip. You will start being more sensitive to the flex in your driver shaft (especially with an OP shaft). Hope it helps.

[rx1232]

anyone willing to take a flier on these? https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805097779758.html.

I reckon is most likely burning money but i'm curious.