Inconsistent shots; left right and center. Video of my swing. Anyone willing to analyze?

[Vs7855]

I’ve been working on my swing all year and have some serious issues with inconsistency. I got larger grips and severely weakened my grip to try to eliminate snap hooks which it has partially but I still snap occasionally with many shots being blocked out right or slicing. I do sometimes stripe them right down the center but my normal shot is a heavy draw. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong and am desperate for some consistency. Anything glaring you can see in my 7 iron stock swing I would very much appreciate. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Vs7855

[Vs7855]

I should also mention I am very much aware of my in-to-out swing. Every time I try to correct it I end up snap hooking the ball. Very frustrating 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Your problem is that you don’t really create any hip death and have what’s commonly referred to as a false turn. You bend the left knee and straighten the right knee but don’t turn the hip. You then fire the hips in the downswing instead of creating forward bend and adding flex to the right knee followed by pushing the left hip back and up.

This causes your transition/downswing to be steep and you get stuck. This is what you are referring to a your into out. Because of this you have to early extend. Your brain then has to figure out what to do and to avoid hitting right you roll the hands and close the face thus the lefts. If you don’t do that you would hit pushes.

Your goal shouldn’t be to fix your in to out but rather your takeaway and backswing then get the correct transition downswing

[Vs7855]

Awesome advice I never realized that. I feel like I’ve been having to do aggressively hinge my wrists to get to parallel and avoid early extension

[Vs7855]

Ok Ricky I’m at a loss… I went out to the garage golf net and tried what you mentioned. I’ve never in my life hit a sequence of perfect effortless straight balls in my entire life. It’s like all the strain and technicality left my swing and it was suddenly right, for once. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, Vs7855 said:

Ok Ricky I’m at a loss… I went out to the garage golf net and tried what you mentioned. I’ve never in my life hit a sequence of perfect effortless straight balls in my entire life. It’s like all the strain and technicality left my swing and it was suddenly right, for once. 

We tend to look at the compensations we make in our swing as faults so the symptoms get addressed and not the cause.

Example of a compensation that people try to fix is early extension. That’s a compensation for something else. If the person didn’t early extend they would miss the ball or dig a ditch several feet behind the ball 

[Vs7855]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

We tend to look at the compensations we make in our swing as faults so the symptoms get addressed and not the cause.

Example of a compensation that people try to fix is early extension. That’s a compensation for something else. If the person didn’t early extend they would miss the ball or dig a ditch several feet behind the ball 

Makes sense. I’ve struggled with early extension/casting for this entire summer (I picked up golf back in may). Actually rotating my body in the backswing seems to have completely solved it. Again, can’t thank you enough for your insight. 
 

Here’s a quick comparison. Net photo is from today, range photo is from before my original post. Do you see the change or should I rotate even more?

Edited October 10, 2022 by Vs7855

[MacTourney]

Off the pictures, I don't like to open anything but YouTube files, and I hate drawing static lines on dynamic movement, but arm travel is quite disconnected at the top.   You can play from there with required reconnects but that's a little long for a 7.  Your goal going back is full shoulder turn with minimum arm travel, not the other way around.   You're near one end of the spectrum with this relationship, and TFinau may be on the other end of the spectrum.  

Edited October 12, 2022 by MacTourney
spelling

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 10/10/2022 at 12:10 PM, Vs7855 said:

Makes sense. I’ve struggled with early extension/casting for this entire summer (I picked up golf back in may). Actually rotating my body in the backswing seems to have completely solved it. Again, can’t thank you enough for your insight. 
 

Here’s a quick comparison. Net photo is from today, range photo is from before my original post. Do you see the change or should I rotate even more?

When filming the swing the camera needs to be pointed at the hands and straight on. Your angles for these are off and really can’t make any conclusions on the swing but also pictures tell us nothing. There’s now way to say how you got into positions in the photo and they bar only a moment in time in the swing 

[MacTourney]

Pretty easy to spot an arm overrun from almost any angle live, or even a bad camera angle within a picture although that would be a little more sensitive for sure, but it could be part of torso leaning at the top, which view is not available, but I doubt the amount of contribution to overrun is significant if there is.  

Don't know what the causes are beyond my own guesstimate, only the outcome:   exposing an armpit to the elements.   The net photo, bad camera or not, is telling a story with an elevated right heel at the top. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by MacTourney
spelling clarity

[Vs7855]

Here's a video of a 7 iron swing from this morning. Critique away. I feel like I'm getting close to where I need to be but still struggle with hitting fat shots

[RickyBobby_PR]

3 minutes ago, Vs7855 said:

Here's a video of a 7 iron swing from this morning. Critique away. I feel like I'm getting close to where I need to be but still struggle with hitting fat shots

Some good things but some not so good things.

your takeaway is pretty good (pic 1)

Your lack of wrist set causes you to overswing on the back swing.

your backswing really is over at (pic2)but you not keep going and over extend (pic 3). not bad but here is where things go bad.

From the top you fire the hips. This is bad, you should be increasing left side bend and flex in both knees with bend at the waist that gets your hips moving back so you can rotate thru the swing. Pic 4

Your move causes you to be steep thru the downswing. Pics 5 and 6

As result you have no room for the arms and clubs to swing so you have to early extend and throw arms, hands and clubs at the ball to hit it(pic 7). When your timing is good you will hit good shots. When it’s not the potential for two way misses come into play either in the same round to in different rounds where one day the face is open and you hit the ball to the right or if you rotate the hands hard and close the face then the pulls and hooks come in. Face contact will probably be inconsistent as well

search the perfect takeaway, perfect backswing from athletic motion golf.

Search how to clear the hips from Milo lines. Work on these

[MacTourney]

A not too shabby overall summary from RB, but picture #1 makes me want to cover my eyes, but it's an acceptable area to be in if the strike is going to be primarily driven by a leg push, but a potential disaster if the legs of the pivot train continue grinding the ground for more rotation up top.    Push off the ground, or grind into the ground, is the binary here. 

The videos were open and started looking at the caddie view mostly,  and OP's write up, and there appears to be several areas that could be addressed.  OP said he weakened his grip but sure looks strong with disconnected thumbs to me, that grip is an issue.   One of the set up issues is his torso is already partially rotated downrange, usually from improper allowance when trail hand takes holds of the club- the left should go meet the right, not the right go meet the left; and Posture needs to back away from ball a bit with corresponding increase in forward bend so he can get more depth.

One of the other issues is whether or not he is an innate primary thrower for speed who doesn't know a sequence for that, or his faulty sequence now is the result of improper understanding and application of another pattern that's out of sequence thus causing him to throw.   He might want to have a look at Paddy Harrington to see if that makes any sense, as he has the premier throw sequence drill on the net. 

That's about it.

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by MacTourney

[Vs7855]

RB,

Thanks for the breakdown. Can you delve deeper into what you mean by lack of wrist set? I feel like I'm a major early releaser of the club and I've been trying to get that feeling of having the wrists releasing as late as possible which is why I continue to break them into the end of the backswing. 

I'll check out the references you mentioned. I see what you're saying about firing the hips early. Looks like that motion is that "humping the goat" phenomenon I've hear about. 

[Vs7855]

33 minutes ago, MacTourney said:

A not too shabby overall summary from RB, but picture #1 makes me want to cover my eyes, but it's an acceptable area to be in if the strike is going to be primarily driven by a leg push, but a potential disaster if the legs of the pivot train continue grinding the ground for more rotation up top.    Push off the ground, or grind into the ground, is the binary here. 

The videos were open and started looking at the caddie view mostly,  and OP's write up, and there appears to be several areas that could be addressed.  OP said he weakened his grip but sure looks strong with disconnected thumbs to me, that grip is an issue.   One of the set up issues is his torso is already partially rotated downrange, usually from improper allowance when trail hand takes holds the club- the left should go meet the right, not the right go meet the left; and Posture needs to back away from ball a bit with corresponding increase in forward bend so he can get more depth.

One of the other issues is whether or not he is an innate primary thrower for speed who doesn't know a sequence for that, or his faulty sequence now is the result of improper understanding and application of another pattern that's out of sequence thus causing him to throw.   He might want to have a look at Paddy Harrington to see if that makes any sense, as he has the premier throw sequence drill on the net. 

That's about it.

 

I am really struggling with what I need to do with my grip. I feel like the left hand in the grip really prevents me from getting lag in my swing. If I swing one handed with my right arm I can get great lag almost like hitting a tennis ball but as soon as I introduce the left I lose all of that nice flow and whipping motion in the swing. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 minutes ago, Vs7855 said:

RB,

Thanks for the breakdown. Can you delve deeper into what you mean by lack of wrist set? I feel like I'm a major early releaser of the club and I've been trying to get that feeling of having the wrists releasing as late as possible which is why I continue to break them into the end of the backswing. 

I'll check out the references you mentioned. I see what you're saying about firing the hips early. Looks like that motion is that "humping the goat" phenomenon I've hear about. 

At this point in the swing the club should be more vertical and not so much behind you.

the wrists set at a 45° angle.

When you watch the amg videos you will see how to set the wrists 

[MacTourney]

27 minutes ago, Vs7855 said:

I am really struggling with what I need to do with my grip. I feel like the left hand in the grip really prevents me from getting lag in my swing. If I swing one handed with my right arm I can get great lag almost like hitting a tennis ball but as soon as I introduce the left I lose all of that nice flow and whipping motion in the swing. 

Lag is more from 2 hands being pinned between opposing forces.    In fact, some of the finest ball strikers ever believe the more our hands are removed from the equation the easier a sequence becomes, and that's where my money is wagered.     This may not make much sense to you at the moment, but how would you place the club in your hands if you were told that the club is attached to the arms via the hands.    In the meantime have a look at this and see if it rings any bells and whistles.  

 https://www.facebook.com/RyderCupEuropeanTeam/videos/padraig-harringtons-tennis-ball-drill/2572065559725332/

Edited October 13, 2022 by MacTourney

[Wildthing]

The OP is probably better off seeing a local pro for guidance but I imagine his snap hooks are caused by an incredibly strong grip and the fact that he is 'running out of right arm' at/through impact.  When I say running out of right arm, his right shoulder is not moving down plane enough and closer to the ball therefore his right arm/wrist will have to prematurely straighten just to get the club to the ball. When your right arm and wrist straighten, your forearm and wrist will naturally rotate and close the clubface rapidly.

Trying to fix bits and pieces of his swing using people's opinions about kinematics of a golf swing might not be helpful so he's better off seeing a professional for hands-on lessons and practice drills.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Wildthing

[Vs7855]

Do you know of any good golf pros in the Cleveland area? 

[Wildthing]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:39 PM, Vs7855 said:

Do you know of any good golf pros in the Cleveland area? 

I live in the UK but doesn't Erik Barzeski operate from there (ie. the local pro for 'The Sand Trap'  golf forum)?

https://thesandtrap.com/

https://golfevolution.com/locations/

He also has 3D Gears technology too which might interest you.

ps. He's also got a background in Physics and seems to have a good knowledge of biomechanics.

I've changed my mind about Erik Barzeski as he seems to teach a specific type of golf swing that might not meet your needs.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Wildthing

[DriverBreaker]

Need the DTL video centered on the hands (both vertically and horizontally). 
 

Snap hooks come from club face closed to the path a large amount.  From the face on view, it looks like there is a bit of a flip happening.   Tough to consistently deliver the club face when the flip is happening.  That’s where you get some big hooks and some big pushes.

A launch monitor like TrackMan or GC Quad with stickers on the face will tell you what the path and face are. For most of my players I like to see path inside of 3* (positive or negative consistently) for both faders and drawers. 
 

Lots of posters have addressed the big issues that can be gathered from the videos provided.  Best bet is to invest in lessons with a teaching professional and work on it consistently.  Even then, ask 5 different pros and they might come away with 5 different plans to work on the swing.  Do your best to stick with one and not bounce around before giving it a fair chance to develop. 
 

Best of luck!