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Where did Counterbalanced putters go?


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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jlukes said:

I believe the word you were looking for was fulcrum, not axis 

Yes sir thank you

Edited by Moose4282
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, cnosil said:

???   Your hands aren't the axis.  In the putting stroke (or golf swing for that matter) the body doesn't rotate around the hands.    Counterbalancing is simply about moving the balance point of the club.  That can be accomplished by adding weight above or below the balance point. Slight or not, it is still counterbalancing and that depending on your sensitivity to weight even a gram or two could influence the feel. 

I used the wrong term, its fulcrum not axis. Imagine a seesaw. The middle triangle where in connects  is the fulcrum. Thats where your hands connect to the club. If there is no shaft on the other side of the fulcrum, it dont matter how the weight is distributed, its all on one side of the fulcrum. Now if its swinging, more weight away from the fulcrum would “feel heavier”. So by moving weight to the handle, right on top of the fulcrum or near, you lighten its swingweight, it will “feel” lighter to swing. Now if we put weight on the oppisite side, the effect is MUCH greater, you now have a force counter acting the force in the other side of the fulcrum. All in all its supposed to “quiet” any wrist action one may have. I know people say “ my wrists are locked”... well they think they are, but they arent 😉

 

9800440D-7BB2-4725-B2CB-91533A35AEAF.png

Edited by Moose4282
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3 hours ago, JohnSmalls said:

Counter flex was a pretty cool solution by Nike.  But I just can’t get comfortable with the length of the putter.  

Using it as it was originally intended, I didn’t care for the feel either. But I’ve been slowly adding loft (~5 degrees) to setup as an Armlock and it’s giving me a pretty pristine path and feels great now.

I’m actually actively hunting Counter Flex putters. Specifically, to harvest their adjustable hardware and pair with some other heads (Bettinardi QB6, BG Amazing Grace NYC). Finding those Nike Method CF wands, in the minty condition that @GolfSpy MPR passed this one down to me, is truly rare. From a perspective of overall tech packages, it’s one of the most intriguing putters I’ve ever owned and he gave me an unbelievable deal on it.

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10 hours ago, Moose4282 said:

I used the wrong term, its fulcrum not axis. Imagine a seesaw. The middle triangle where in connects  is the fulcrum. Thats where your hands connect to the club. If there is no shaft on the other side of the fulcrum, it dont matter how the weight is distributed, its all on one side of the fulcrum. Now if its swinging, more weight away from the fulcrum would “feel heavier”. So by moving weight to the handle, right on top of the fulcrum or near, you lighten its swingweight, it will “feel” lighter to swing. Now if we put weight on the oppisite side, the effect is MUCH greater, you now have a force counter acting the force in the other side of the fulcrum. All in all its supposed to “quiet” any wrist action one may have. I know people say “ my wrists are locked”... well they think they are, but they arent 😉

 

9800440D-7BB2-4725-B2CB-91533A35AEAF.png

I understand what you are saying and what you are saying is correct.  The point of my original post was that counterbalance does not have to be above the hands with a longer shaft.   extending the shaft adds weight on the other side of the fulcrum.  This means I can put a lighter weight in the end vs a heavier weight in a shorter shaft.    You are now getting into swingweight which is influenced by the weight above and below the balance point of the putter.  As for the "feel",  some people prefer to feel the weight in the head of the putter because they try to swing the head of the putter.  Others, like you describe, want to feel their hands move the putter so putting more weight near their hands provides that feel.   Also, swingweight is a static measurement that can be influenced in a lot of ways;  what it doesn't take into account is total weight,   both of those influence the feel and how the player responds with the club in their hands.   There is a lot more to weighting putters and golf clubs; for example  I can give you a putter swingweighted at E2 that weights 2 pounds and one at D2 that weights 100 pounds,  the lower swingweight putter won't feel lighter to swing.

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7 hours ago, cnosil said:

I understand what you are saying and what you are saying is correct.  The point of my original post was that counterbalance does not have to be above the hands with a longer shaft.   extending the shaft adds weight on the other side of the fulcrum.  This means I can put a lighter weight in the end vs a heavier weight in a shorter shaft.    You are now getting into swingweight which is influenced by the weight above and below the balance point of the putter.  As for the "feel",  some people prefer to feel the weight in the head of the putter because they try to swing the head of the putter.  Others, like you describe, want to feel their hands move the putter so putting more weight near their hands provides that feel.   Also, swingweight is a static measurement that can be influenced in a lot of ways;  what it doesn't take into account is total weight,   both of those influence the feel and how the player responds with the club in their hands.   There is a lot more to weighting putters and golf clubs; for example  I can give you a putter swingweighted at E2 that weights 2 pounds and one at D2 that weights 100 pounds,  the lower swingweight putter won't feel lighter to swing.

No i agree, just wish there was a better term to seperate the two, yes technically they are both counterbalanced, but they are different concepts.

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I made my own by fitting a long grip on my old Callaway Warbird Putter extending the putter length by 3". The grip has a screw in plug at the top that has and internal thread. I drilled a hole in a piece of round bar and using a Stainless steel bolt screwed it in to the internal thread then screwed it the plug back in to the top. Then I tried it and slowly removed weight until I found the perfect balance. I only use this putter when the greens are wet or in winter if the greens are left long.

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On 4/30/2020 at 6:31 PM, PMookie said:

 

Back in 2013-2014 when Callaway launched the Tank, and I bought a Cleveland 38” counterbalanced putter, they were everywhere! Most companies had a least one model, and the offerings for new styles came each year. Now, they’re nowhere to be seen! What happened?!

How many of you played one, which one, what length, and if you don’t play it anymore, what do you use now? Why’d you switch away?

 

As I mentioned, I had a Cleveland Almost Belly one, and then had an Odyssey, then I moved away from them. Not sure why....

 

Here’s an article MGS did back in 2013 on these putters:

 

https://mygolfspy.com/counterweighted-putters-the-anchor-ban-answer/

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

The Evnroll gravity grip accomplishes this same technology right?

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The Evnroll gravity grip accomplishes this same technology right?

The Evnroll gravity grip accomplishes this same technology right?

Any counterbalance accomplishes the goal. The question is why did companies move away from the counter balance above the hands using an extended shaft; most were 3” extensions.

The Evnroll gravity grip does provide counterbalance but instead of putting the weight in the shaft, the weight is below the shaft

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

 


Any counterbalance accomplishes the goal. The question is why did companies move away from the counter balance above the hands using an extended shaft; most were 3” extensions.

The Evnroll gravity grip does provide counterbalance but instead of putting the weight in the shaft, the weight is below the shaft

 

I see the guys doing the arm lock are using 38" shafts. Kuchar, DeChambeau

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I see the guys doing the arm lock are using 38" shafts. Kuchar, DeChambeau

A bit of a different approach. Fitting a armlock isn’t about really counterbalancing but finding the right “anchor point” to ensure it fits properly.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I think counterbalance, weight above the hands, is great in theory and I have tried CB putters a few different times.  My problem with counterbalance putters is the touch putts, the ones were you have to have some imagination, were more difficult.  If you believe putting is a blend of art and science, counterbalance is all science and not enough art.  Thats the best way I can sum it up.  

 

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