Video Analysis in Lessons

[GolfSpy Dave]

Do you guys who have used video think that it is critical for a lesson? Does your swing need to look a certain way to be effective?

I know Matt is very anti video because he thinks it will make him worry about the looks rather than the mechanics.

Others have been pro-video. Where do you fall? Would you only sign-up for lessons if video support is available?

How do you view the effectiveness of lessons at a Golf Galaxy, where hitting into nets and video?

[jamo]

Do you guys who have used video think that it is critical for a lesson? Does your swing need to look a certain way to be effective?

I know Matt is very anti video because he thinks it will make him worry about the looks rather than the mechanics.

Others have been pro-video. Where do you fall? Would you only sign-up for lessons if video support is available?

How do you view the effectiveness of lessons at a Golf Galaxy, where hitting into nets and video?

 

I use video many times in evaluating my own swing, and I use it during lessons. Video allows the pro to find things in your swing that you would not be able to see at full speed. It allows you to stop at any point and get a real measure of where you are wrong and where you are right. I am not an overly gifted athlete, and this means that my swing needs to be mechanically sound for it to work. Video allows you to be less result oriented and more focused on the process. I think that is essential, to me, because if you are making a tough swing change you will not see results right away, but you can see progress in video and video allows you to test and see if you are reverting back to old ways. I've heard it before, and I believe it to be true: feel lies, video doesn't. You want a swing to feel right, but it will over time just through muscle memory.

[GolfSpy Dave]

"Feel lies, video doesn't" I had not heard that statement before. To give me an idea of your video process, how many video lessons have you had? Did you have to pay more for the video or was that part of the package?

 

If I am reading what you are saying correctly, video allowed you to focus on one aspect, say hand position at the start of the downswing and just get to the correct spot, regardless of the rest of the swing. Multiple situations like this with multiple swing components eventually ends up with the full, mechanically sound swing.

 

Am I close?

[jamo]

"Feel lies, video doesn't" I had not heard that statement before. To give me an idea of your video process, how many video lessons have you had? Did you have to pay more for the video or was that part of the package?

 

If I am reading what you are saying correctly, video allowed you to focus on one aspect, say hand position at the start of the downswing and just get to the correct spot, regardless of the rest of the swing. Multiple situations like this with multiple swing components eventually ends up with the full, mechanically sound swing.

 

Am I close?

 

I have had 2 actual lessons with video, but the pro who did the teaching really messed up my swing, so I'm not going back. Basically, i only bought I lesson and he gave me a lot of quick fixes that manifested themselves as just covering up bigger problems. I have been working by myself since november rebuilding the swing that I want. I get a lot of it from other forums, studying pro's swing, and a little from blogs and TV.

 

Basically, video allows me to focus on exactly what I want to, and I get instant feedback an if I am doing it correctly. For instance, I started working on my right elbow. Basically I was lifting it very far off my chest, creating an pronounced 2 plane swing that made accuracy suffer. Then I went to my shoulders, which were very flat. I never quite got this fixed, but I am revisiting it now. After that, I worked on keeping a straight left arm on the backswing, and after I get the shoulders fixed I will fix a nagging problem with my left arm at impact.

 

It is a tough process, but one of my goals this year is to make the golf team at the college that I attend, so I will need to put a lot of work into it.

 

One of the reasons that I turned to video is because it was winter, and I couldn't rely on results.

 

All of this said, video is not for everybody. A guy that was on another forum has a blog called Zenchili, and the guy realized that over-reliance on video had zapped all of the feel out of his swing, so he took a 30 day no-video challenge. Kinda corny, but he saw some good results. Some of it was that he was a good golfer already, but the feel he gained seemed to help him.

[GolfSpy Dave]

I saw the link to your videos in the other thread. Thanks for sharing that. Have you ever used slow motion video? The 5 second swing clip seems very fast to review. Do you swing with the recording on and then review what it looked like before hitting again?

[jamo]

I don't do slow motion, but I have the original files on my computer and I can use Quicktime to play them frame by frame.

[JohnBarry]

3 Lessons from 2 years ago, my first lessons actually, from the local Golf Galaxy Pro. Please hold the laughter down to a minimum, I have since improved my swing and my game quite a bit.

 

 

 

[GolfSpy Dave]

Thanks John for sharing. Not talking smack, but video may be very helpful to find areas to work on. Jamo's swing looked too good for me to figure out what to change. I am grateful that you posted these older "flawed swing" videos. As another less than perfect swinger, video may be the way to connect what I think is happening with what is happening.

 

Do you feel that the GG lessons were beneficial overall? We have a very cool pro at the local GG out here, but the no ball flight thing makes me pause. I have hit too many balls that felt good and then looked like el poop-o

[Matt Saternus]

Thanks John for sharing. Not talking smack, but video may be very helpful to find areas to work on. Jamo's swing looked too good for me to figure out what to change. I am grateful that you posted these older "flawed swing" videos. As another less than perfect swinger, video may be the way to connect what I think is happening with what is happening.

 

Do you feel that the GG lessons were beneficial overall? We have a very cool pro at the local GG out here, but the no ball flight thing makes me pause. I have hit too many balls that felt good and then looked like el poop-o

 

Video or not, I would not want to take lessons if I was just hitting into a net. Too much uncertainty about the results that your swing changes are getting.

 

I like the point the Jamo made about being process oriented, not result oriented, but I think a good teacher can do this without video. If your pro tells you, "That result may have been good, but ____ was bad" and you don't want to listen to him, then you should reexamine why you're taking a lesson.

[JohnBarry]

Well, I have since been taking lesson on the range with a PGA pro, but the GG lesson did help. The guy, David Stacy, was very nice, and worked with me and tried to not change everything at once. Since I was more worried about my slice, and getting consistant solid contact, that's what we worked for.

[GolfSpy Dave]

Well, I have since been taking lesson on the range with a PGA pro, but the GG lesson did help. The guy, David Stacy, was very nice, and worked with me and tried to not change everything at once. Since I was more worried about my slice, and getting consistant solid contact, that's what we worked for.

So you did see transfer from the gg lesson to the range or course later?

[JohnBarry]

A bit, yes, it helped me with making more solid contact and the swing plane, turning my wrists over (which I never did) and my follow through.

[NGage]

IMHO, you've got to have at least some video. Some things just can't be seen by the naked eye, and everyone knows that "feel" is not necessarily real.

[JohnBarry]

Can't wait for next's Saturday's lesson, and I hope a new Video to post!

[Addicted2Golf]

My recent encounter with video analysis is well documented on the GolfTEC thread I started.

 

But, I will say that I do believe it will help me identify areas of inconsistency that I wouldn't have otherwise found with just a standard lesson. And in a very short period of time, which is great because golf lessons aren't cheap...

[Matt Saternus]

My recent encounter with video analysis is well documented on the GolfTEC thread I started.

 

But, I will say that I do believe it will help me identify areas of inconsistency that I wouldn't have otherwise found with just a standard lesson. And in a very short period of time, which is great because golf lessons aren't cheap...

 

Couple questions: Do you think that a golf instructor would not have been able to find the flaw/mistake/problem without video? Or is it rather that you wanted to see the problem for yourself before you made any changes? Or something else entirely?

[jamo]

Couple questions: Do you think that a golf instructor would not have been able to find the flaw/mistake/problem without video? Or is it rather that you wanted to see the problem for yourself before you made any changes? Or something else entirely?

 

It is much easier to see it with video. Not to say they wouldn't find it otherwise, but it is next to impossible to see impact position without video.

[JohnBarry]

Weird thing is, you don't know what your swing looks like or is doing until you see it on video. I saw mine and I said, wow, look at all the things I am doing wrong. My instructor told me lets try to fix 1 thing at a time and not change it all at once, or your never get better.

[Matt Saternus]

Weird thing is, you don't know what your swing looks like or is doing until you see it on video. I saw mine and I said, wow, look at all the things I am doing wrong. My instructor told me lets try to fix 1 thing at a time and not change it all at once, or your never get better.

 

This is exactly why I don't want video of my swing. My swing is by no means perfect, but it's more than good enough to shoot around par if I'd clean up my short game and putting. If I see it on tape and it looks a mess, I'm going to want to take it apart for no reason except to look good.

[lmh3]

I don't think that it is critical to use videos in a lesson, but it is helpful to slow down the swing to see root causes of ball flight and shot quality. I use the V1 video system for teaching and will record my own swing two or three times a month just to see what is going on. I do believe that there is a certain level of swing technique obsession that can harm a player's game, when one becomes too focused on creating a "perfect" swing, they can lose the ability to "play" the game and make shots. Players like Charles Howell III and Adam Scott seem to be too focused on making a perfect swing while players like Phil and Tiger will focus on scoring the best they possibly can with the swing they have that day.

[JohnBarry]

I love the V1 system, are you a PGA professional? Where are you located at?

[lmh3]

I love the V1 system, are you a PGA professional? Where are you located at?

 

I am PGA Professional, I work just outside of Philadelphia.

[JohnBarry]

Just a little out of my range, drive time wise!

[Manavs]

video is an integral part of my lessons. its a tool to enhance learning for the student.

 

with most students i capture a before swing and start with looking at impact. I work to drill in how to improve impact off camera, then show them what it looks like along the way as they progress until finally they're impact is ideal for them.

 

note - those teachers who say "i dont need video" is akin to a doctor saying "nah i dont need bloodwork"

 

as a student if you cant create conclusive proof that showed improvement from before to after. IMO You got taken.

[Phana24JG]

video is an integral part of my lessons. its a tool to enhance learning for the student.

 

with most students i capture a before swing and start with looking at impact. I work to drill in how to improve impact off camera, then show them what it looks like along the way as they progress until finally they're impact is ideal for them.

 

note - those teachers who say "i dont need video" is akin to a doctor saying "nah i dont need bloodwork"

 

as a student if you cant conclusive proof that showed improvement from before to after. IMO You got taken.

 

Mike makes an excellent point. What a golfer "feels" he is doing is very often far different from reality. I remember when I first went to see my current instructor, and he told me that I was a flipper. I was INDIGNANT, and told him that there was no away. Out came the Casio FX-20 and one swing later I got to see in 420fps how my eight iron and hands were exactly matched up at the ball. So all that money I spent on the 8.5 degree driver and low-launch shaft were basically to compensate for a swing flaw. Instead of me standing there telling him what I felt, I had direct and irrefutable evidence that he was right. Hence, I became far easier to teach.

[Maverickping]

For myself it is very important. It allows me to see where things are going wrong and my coach (who is part of the team that works with O'Hair and some others http://www.coregolfacademy.com/) trusts it as well. Seeing your swing broken down at 700 fps works for me.