Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[chisag]

6 hours ago, gavinski91 said:

Given how negative a lot of the coverage has been (including always referring to LIV golfers as "defectors") I highly doubt they are being paid. I've done some work with media, and across the board all that matters is clicks, regardless of how people feel about the topic. Even if the majority of the people who are clicking those links hate LIV and hope to see it fail, those are still clicks that get them ad revenue. And the fact that you're posting about it in this thread proves that even if you don't like the LIV tour, you're still thinking about it and willing to share your opinion, which is all the media outlets care about.

 

... As the saying goes, any coverage is good coverage so I get it, clicks are all that matters and why I never click on any LIV article. I am not thinking about it, just lamenting the fact that websites seem much less interested in proding a story about a new shaft, a new 19 yr old #1 on the LPGA Tour or a myriad of other subjects and stories they used to include but no need when you can just be lazy and rehash anything LIV. 

[Headhammer]

18 hours ago, gavinski91 said:

Given how negative a lot of the coverage has been (including always referring to LIV golfers as "defectors") I highly doubt they are being paid. I've done some work with media, and across the board all that matters is clicks, regardless of how people feel about the topic. Even if the majority of the people who are clicking those links hate LIV and hope to see it fail, those are still clicks that get them ad revenue. And the fact that you're posting about it in this thread proves that even if you don't like the LIV tour, you're still thinking about it and willing to share your opinion, which is all the media outlets care about.

So true. Here is a tweet from Phil with 500+ responses, so far. A quick looks shows that the responses are split 50/50 positive/negative. One thing is certain that there are now bots designed to negatively respond to anything LIV that is posted on twitter. I see the same accounts post "no one cares" to every LIV post I see.

[shootmyage]

next year is going to be very interesting 

because of all the talk about driver distance now , here is a very good read about SB 1997 ryder cup , i remember it very well .

https://vault.si.com/vault/1997/10/06/ole-ole-in-a-stunning-upset-in-spain-a-european-team-led-by-captain-seve-ballesteros-gored-the-us

 

[Undershooter]

On 11/2/2022 at 8:49 AM, Headhammer said:

So true. Here is a tweet from Phil with 500+ responses, so far. A quick looks shows that the responses are split 50/50 positive/negative. One thing is certain that there are now bots designed to negatively respond to anything LIV that is posted on twitter. I see the same accounts post "no one cares" to every LIV post I see.

You realize that liv has been using bots for months for the exact same thing right? Not just twitter btw, but also on FB, Youtube, and IG. 

I'm not saying that the use of bots is right for either side, but its a bit hypocritical if liv, or their fans have an issue with it after doing it for months.

[cardia10]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:33 PM, Undershooter said:

You realize that liv has been using bots for months for the exact same thing right? Not just twitter btw, but also on FB, Youtube, and IG. 

I'm not saying that the use of bots is right for either side, but its a bit hypocritical if liv, or their fans have an issue with it after doing it for months.

It is hard to jump on LIV if they are using bots. Just 6 months ago, the PGA tour told players there wasn't enough money for increased purses and caddy assistance, and not they are paying to show up. It is ugly both ways sadly and now before the next defections, LIV has half of the last 5 years worth of major winners. 

[Undershooter]

22 minutes ago, cardia10 said:

It is hard to jump on LIV if they are using bots. Just 6 months ago, the PGA tour told players there wasn't enough money for increased purses and caddy assistance, and not they are paying to show up. It is ugly both ways sadly and now before the next defections, LIV has half of the last 5 years worth of major winners. 

1. What do bots have to do with the tour's purses, and why can't we blame liv for using them? That doesn't make sense.

2. Can you cite your sources on "PGA tour told players there wasn't enough money for increased purses"? Because this article from 1 year ago says the opposite. https://golf.com/news/pga-tour-massive-purse-increases-2022/ 

Not to mention Monahan announced at the 2020 Players Championship that purses would be going up over the next few years due to their TV deal being finalized.

[shootmyage]

39 minutes ago, Undershooter said:

1. What do bots have to do with the tour's purses, and why can't we blame liv for using them? That doesn't make sense.

2. Can you cite your sources on "PGA tour told players there wasn't enough money for increased purses"? Because this article from 1 year ago says the opposite. https://golf.com/news/pga-tour-massive-purse-increases-2022/ 

Not to mention Monahan announced at the 2020 Players Championship that purses would be going up over the next few years due to their TV deal being finalized.

the money is the players money anyway , jm is only giving the players some of their money from the pot .

[Undershooter]

1 hour ago, shootmyage said:

the money is the players money anyway , jm is only giving the players some of their money from the pot .

Interesting. Break down how tv contracts work, and where liv's money comes from next, please.

[CarlH]

2 hours ago, shootmyage said:

the money is the players money anyway , jm is only giving the players some of their money from the pot .

Huh?  You've got some 'splainin' to do, Loosey!

[cleve981]

17 hours ago, cardia10 said:

It is hard to jump on LIV if they are using bots. Just 6 months ago, the PGA tour told players there wasn't enough money for increased purses and caddy assistance, and not they are paying to show up. It is ugly both ways sadly and now before the next defections, LIV has half of the last 5 years worth of major winners. 

The PGATOUR has 90% of the last 10 years worth of major winners......LOL!

[cardia10]

True

On 11/5/2022 at 9:31 AM, cleve981 said:

The PGATOUR has 90% of the last 10 years worth of major winners......LOL!

True, but the GOAT can barely limp 18 holes now. I know one top 50 player and one top 125 that say Monahan has lied constantly to them and other than maybe the top 10 players that are up his rear, none of the players trust him. There have been lots of discussion about caddy support and it is put on the players as they are independent contractors of the player, but the same can be said of the players. That is what the Tour has called them for years to avoid giving them incentives and benefit. Now, it is convenient that they signed some imaginary contract to play on tour. When it all comes out, you will see that many players have been paid for years under the table to play certain events and certain players never completed any release paperwork to play in competing events overseas, it was just understood that many of the best could do that and didn't need permission. The PGA is hanging their hat on the fact that certain LIV players didn't ask for a release or the Tour denied the release while some top 10 players have never asked for one in their career and have never been penalized for it. Hard to enforce a rule selectively, or I'd say a court will say that. Sadly, it is just ugly all around and divides the game.

Edited November 9, 2022 by cardia10

[shootmyage]

just wondering , i have caddied a few times for friends trying to make the us open , very very hard work , one time bulla and purtzer  was in the 4 some , caring a 40-50 lb bag for 36 holes is tough . 

so i have always had a feeling for caddies , 

my question is , if the pga tour player meets all the q's and at the end of the year makes $300,000 ,  the caddie may get  30k , then the tour gives the player $200000 for the total of $500,000 

does the caddie get $20,000  ? 

[LICC]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:53 PM, cardia10 said:

the PGA tour told players there wasn't enough money for increased purses

Stop making things up. The Tour didn't say this. Just the opposite actually.

On 11/4/2022 at 3:53 PM, cardia10 said:

LIV has half of the last 5 years worth of major winners. 

In the last 5 years there have been 16 different major winners over 19 tournaments. LIV has six of those players, one of whom (Mickelson) hasn't played worth anything since.

[GaDawg]

"The top 10 players that are up his rear, none of the players trust him".

Very True!

[cardia10]

5 hours ago, LICC said:

Stop making things up. The Tour didn't say this. Just the opposite actually.

In the last 5 years there have been 16 different major winners over 19 tournaments. LIV has six of those players, one of whom (Mickelson) hasn't played worth anything since.

The tour did say this as confirmed by 2 players in the meeting. It has been a huge internal conflict. The tour lets the media believe it is all kosher, but within the meetings, they say it has gotten ugly with Monahan being called out in front of everyone about money "designated" for certain things, and now those "designated" funds can be used for anything. I'm just reporting what was told from meetings. There is a reason this many top players have left. If all were wonderful, LIV would have never gotten off the ground. There is significant internal issues in the PGA and if it goes through the court process (PGA will never let it all get released and will settle) it will get ugly for everyone, especially those guys that have been paid against the rules under the table and the players that have been given free reign to play other tours while the rules were selectively enforced against others, 

[Bang60]

It's all politics as far as I'm concerned, they said Liv was a pipe dream but 8 tournaments made it a big pipe dream, either way I'm enjoying Liv FREE to air while it lasts. If they start charging for there tournaments I'll stick with utube, pay per view is full of ad's and I ain't paying for that..

[Middler]

Quote

Despite Norman’s inexhaustible bluster and bots, all is not well in the LIV metaverse. While the PGA Tour has given its loyalists what they demanded—elite events, more lucrative prize funds, bigger bonuses—LIV has provided its recruits nothing of what they were promised except cash. There is no uncontested right to cherry pick from other tours, no world ranking points, no clear pathway to the majors, no broadcast rights deal, no audience, no public acclaim as visionaries, no applause for growing the game.

Recent days have brought rumblings of discontent among LIV players and reports of belt-tightening on the lavish perks once bestowed on their entourages. More ominous for Norman—or whichever luckless executive replaces him—are whispers that a reckoning is nearing on the one question for which LIV has no good answer: where is the return on investment? Even MBS has limits on how much he’ll be taken for a fool by the Pat Perezs of the world.

The coming months will see a steadily increasing drumbeat from a band of gobshites and charlatans who insist a deal must be reached for the good of the game, that accommodating LIV is the only way forward for professional golf. Some will advocate for such an agreement just because they abhor conflict. But for others it will be nothing more than a noble-sounding means to keep Saudi money in the game long enough to peel off their share.

The narrative we’ll hear from these graduates of the Neville Chamberlain school of diplomacy will demand that the PGA and DP World tours act as defibrillators for LIV, that they must come together to resuscitate an ebbing party so others may pick its pockets a while longer. That position is as shameless as it is specious, and needs to be dismissed with contempt. Only one of these tours is endangered, and it isn’t headed by Jay Monahan or Keith Pelley.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/lynch-liv-golfs-problems-arent-limited-to-greg-normans-incompetence-replacing-him-wont-solve-them/ar-AA13YGRc

[LICC]

33 minutes ago, cardia10 said:

The tour did say this as confirmed by 2 players in the meeting.

Please post the reports of these players confirming the Tour said it didn't have money to increase purses.

The players who left for LIV did it for the massively higher pay that is being funded by unlimited Saudi money with no bearing on taking losses. 

[cardia10]

14 minutes ago, LICC said:

Please post the reports of these players confirming the Tour said it didn't have money to increase purses.

The players who left for LIV did it for the massively higher pay that is being funded by unlimited Saudi money with no bearing on taking losses. 

These players didn't go to the media to say anything. Does anyone truly believe the PGA would have revamped their schedule, increased prize money and added pay to show up money without LIV? There is so much more going on that only the players know that it is scary. They have also said that most of the players that have left were at odds with the tour and anyone can see multiple major winners don't do it for just the money. I'm sure that is a big part of it, but it has more to do with Monahan and a few of the top players calling all the shots. Mainly 2 players and Monahan make all the decisions for the tour according to them and that other players were tired of hearing them come up with ways to make more money for them while the others are left. I don't care either way, as I usually play golf and rarely watch unless it is a major. Will be interesting to see what the majors decide to do, but will be interesting to see if the tour tried to influence their decisions. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by cardia10

[Bang60]

36 minutes ago, Middler said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/lynch-liv-golfs-problems-arent-limited-to-greg-normans-incompetence-replacing-him-wont-solve-them/ar-AA13YGRc

Haha incompetent is he that's funny, how many years was GREG NORMAN THE Number ONE golfer in the world and HOW much money has he got from playing golf design golf courses running Shark golf.

His only issue is he's not born American ...

 

I WISH I was as incompetent as him LOL LOL..

[LICC]

16 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

Haha incompetent is he that's funny, how many years was GREG NORMAN THE Number ONE golfer in the world and HOW much money has he got from playing golf design golf courses running Shark golf.

His only issue is he's not born American ...

 

I WISH I was as incompetent as him LOL LOL..

Being great at playing golf doesn't equate to skill as a CEO of a business enterprise. I will agree he has done well making money from his brand.

[LICC]

17 minutes ago, cardia10 said:

Does anyone truly believe the PGA would have revamped their schedule, increased prize money and added pay to show up money without LIV?

I don't know about the revamped schedule, but Monahan said that the new media deal would lead to increased prize money, well before LIV was on the scene.

[Bang60]

2 minutes ago, LICC said:

Being great at playing golf doesn't equate to skill as a CEO of a business enterprise. I will agree he has done well making money from his brand.

I'm curious how you think someone who's incompetent can make so much money?

[LICC]

1 hour ago, Bang60 said:

I'm curious how you think someone who's incompetent can make so much money?

From being one of the greatest golfers of all time and monetizing his brand. Which every golfer that has been at his level in the last 40-50 years has done and probably made even more money than him.

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, LICC said:

From being one of the greatest golfers of all time and monetizing his brand. Which every golfer that has been at his level in the last 40-50 years has done and probably made even more money than him.

Probably maybe hmmmm

[GolfSpy_APH]

9 hours ago, cardia10 said:

These players didn't go to the media to say anything. Does anyone truly believe the PGA would have revamped their schedule, increased prize money and added pay to show up money without LIV? There is so much more going on that only the players know that it is scary. They have also said that most of the players that have left were at odds with the tour and anyone can see multiple major winners don't do it for just the money. I'm sure that is a big part of it, but it has more to do with Monahan and a few of the top players calling all the shots. Mainly 2 players and Monahan make all the decisions for the tour according to them and that other players were tired of hearing them come up with ways to make more money for them while the others are left. I don't care either way, as I usually play golf and rarely watch unless it is a major. Will be interesting to see what the majors decide to do, but will be interesting to see if the tour tried to influence their decisions. 

Who is "they" and "them"?

Trying to catch up and must have missed it somewhere. 

[Muckinfiddle]

8 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Who is "they" and "them"?

Trying to catch up and must have missed it somewhere. 

Non-binary golfers...

[MGoBlue100]

21 hours ago, LICC said:

From being one of the greatest golfers of all time and monetizing his brand. Which every golfer that has been at his level in the last 40-50 years has done and probably made even more money than him.

There haven’t been very many “at his level”. Tiger and Phil probably made more off their image and brand, but I’d be hard pressed to think of anyone else. What Norman’s done with Cobra, clothing & course design dwarfs just about everyone else. 

[LICC]

25 minutes ago, MGoBlue100 said:

There haven’t been very many “at his level”. Tiger and Phil probably made more off their image and brand, but I’d be hard pressed to think of anyone else. What Norman’s done with Cobra, clothing & course design dwarfs just about everyone else. 

Jack and Arnie surpassed him. I agree there aren’t many others, if any, in modern times that you can say were better. Faldo. Maybe Watson. 

[MGoBlue100]

1 hour ago, LICC said:

Jack and Arnie surpassed him. I agree there aren’t many others, if any, in modern times that you can say were better. Faldo. Maybe Watson. 

I was talking about his contemporaries and players since. Jack & Arnie are no brainers of course. I’ll give you Faldo; Watson never made much off his name or designed courses that I’m aware of, but was certainly a more accomplished winner than Norman.