what is the proper pace of play when it's packed?

[kikbuti]

UGH! I hate slow play.  My theory is that your place on the golf course is directly behind the group in front of you, not directly in front of the group behind you.

Things that burn me up are players who organize their clubs and headcovers when returning to the cart bag.  The worst is sittting in a cart calculating and writing down scores when leaving the green.  Why not do it on the next tee when you're waiting to hit?

[Hacker60521]

6 hours ago, Dead Solid Bogey said:

I will be pleasantly surprised if I finish todays outing in less than 6 hrs…. Playing in an extremely “ social “ format with 6 players per group. As I age, the time I am on the course doesn’t matter as much as if I am having fun and enjoying myself does… 

@Dead Solid Bogey big social events are always longer, and it’s good you’re mentally preparing for it. When I play events like that I try to remind myself to just roll with it and enjoy the event. 

[Owengeorge13]

4.5 max.  

[richk9holes]

A slight pushback against people saying 4 hr. The topic specifies "when it is packed" I think 4 hr or anything less is a stretch of the imagination or perhaps I have a different perspective of "packed" living in one of the most densely populated areas of the US.

I notice any time I play with someone who is pushing my pace, or if I'm playing with my Dad and he falls behind the other 2 in our group, the guys I play with who get around fastest never fix a ball mark. Never replace a divot. Leave broken tees sticking out of the tee box. Putt in front of me out of turn while I'm lining mine up.

So playing with or in a group immediately behind those people, I will tend to fix more than just my ball mark on a green. Replace mine and their divots in the fairway. Pull their tees out of the tee box and throw them aside before I put mine in. Have to line up my putts multiple times because of a ball rolling or feet walking through my sight line. 

There is a clear reason my average round might take 20 minutes more than theirs. They are jerks.

[silver & black]

In order for Marshals to do their job, the course you play has to HAVE a Marshal. I play several courses in my area and none of them have Marshals.... and haven't for at least 10 years. Very few courses even have Starters anymore.

[Rappers]

I think the pace of play regardless of whether the course is busy or not is a moot point. The R&A have produced a document called the 'pace of play' if I recall correctly, which does illustrate some of nuances of slow play. However, there are so many variables it is very difficult to conceptualise. 

Clearly controls such as a Course Marshal will often help with keeping the pace of play at a reasonable level most of the time. Teeing intervals of 10 minutes, as opposed to 8 minutes or less is another sensible idea. The problem is that no individual or group wants to be labelled a slow player or to be hurried along. Nevertheless, there are some individuals who play golf more slowly than others, which could be down to their age, ability, while others because they think they are playing in the US Masters!

Finding the antidote for slow play is the golfing Holy Grail. 

[Dead Solid Bogey]

7 hours ago, Hacker60521 said:

@Dead Solid Bogey big social events are always longer, and it’s good you’re mentally preparing for it. When I play events like that I try to remind myself to just roll with it and enjoy the event. 

Yeppers…. I occasionally have to remind myself that I play golf because it is fun. Not because I am any good at it. 

[SlowNLow]

On 9/16/2023 at 7:47 AM, kikbuti said:

UGH! I hate slow play.  My theory is that your place on the golf course is directly behind the group in front of you, not directly in front of the group behind you.

Things that burn me up are players who organize their clubs and headcovers when returning to the cart bag.  The worst is sittting in a cart calculating and writing down scores when leaving the green.  Why not do it on the next tee when you're waiting to hit?

Yes, you are on to something, it's changing habits that can save time.     

Like you said, writing down scores, adding up the scores, etc. after walking off the green instead of doing it at the next tee.    

Ditto, cleaning the club just used, putting headcover back on, etc. putting it back in the bag, instead of moving on, then cleaning the club and putting it away when you get to the next shot.   

Some of my pet peeves for wasting time...

Thinking that golf is a casual, social activity, the golfer walks slowly, moves slowly, takes their time,  talks non-stop, looks at their phone, etc.   These guys may even say, "we aren't going anywhere", so they move even slower.  S-L-O-W....................

Guys who drive up to the tee box and just sit in the cart.     Get out of the cart and tee it up already.

Buying beverages at the green instead of the next tee.  Or in the middle of fairway when they could be hitting approach shots.  Beverage cart operators don't care about pace of play, and most are oblivious too it.

The cart golfers who are only 5 yards apart but each one sits in the cart waiting for the other guy to pull a club, pull out the rangefinder, take practice swings, then hit.     

The golfers who won't give up on a lost ball.    Or go fishing for balls. 

Then we have the "who's away" on the greens, one guy is 40', the other guy is 40.2", does it matter?    Somebody putt already.   The public golf courses could put a "gimme" zone around the hole too.  (This might actually slow things down)

Waving golfers up from the green has disappeared.    Especially on par fives, long par 3s, and short par 4s.    Nobody does this anymore, not where I play anyway, what happened? 

Actually some the traditions of the game make it slower, the who's got "honors" on the tee, whoever is away goes first, these go against ready golf.  "Ready golf" needs to clearly defined and pushed hard until it becomes the tradition.    

 

[ajdegeno]

These are my two favorite topics in golf because I work at two golf courses as a Starter and or Marshall.  As a starter, I not only listen to what most of the golfers tell me what they want including to start when they get there instead of waiting until their tee time.  But I am one of the only starters out there that will tell the golfers what we expect from them before they start.  At both courses tee times are 10 minutes--However; I include that on the first hole each group must wait until the group in front of them must all 4 be on the putting green before they hit their first drive.  This gives each group a little space to get the first couple of holes in without having to wait on every shot.  Secondly, I make sure that all groups know if they cannot see the group in front of them when they reach the next tee box they need to catch up.  They do not have to hit into people just see them even if they are on their way to the green--if you can not see that group, you are at least one shot behind in pace of play.  At both courses the groups have to pass the starter stand going from 9 to 10 and I can see their pace without checking gps times for the first 9.  So again before the groups tee off, I tell them I will see them in Two ours and 10 minutes.  That would make about a 4hour 20 minute round of golf.  If they are ahead of pace or even right on pace I let them know it and thank them.  If they are behind in that timing, I let them know and ask that the catch up.  What I have found being direct no B.S. approach works best and people respond in kind.

As a Marshall, if people are on time or ahead, I again let them know and thank them for doing so.  If they are behind, I ask if they had problems with a hole in the past couple.  If they ask me why I ask, I let them know they are out of position and ask if they can try to catch up (the first time they are behind).  If they continue to fall behind, I let the group as a group know that there are several people behind them and that we at the golf course need their assistance in getting everyone in on time.  Any smart answers or excuses, I let them know in a very direct manner that I can handle 4 people being angry at me and while keeping the 100 behind them happy with the pace of play and if they do not pick up their pace, I will move them up at least one hole and possibly more than that but that is only after speaking to them more than one time and giving them a warning.

Golf is supposed to be fun for everyone and not just your group.  So all that I ask is for each individual not be the slowest person in their individual group.  That in itself will speed up play for all. 

I average playing 5 days a week and working the weekends because they are usually at the slowest pace all week.  Most of the rounds I play are very early in the morning where the groups I play with can get around the course in 3 and 1/2 to 4 hours at the most.  We even get lucky and get off first and get around in 3 hours or slightly under.  To do that, we truly play ready golf--if you are not in anyones way go ahead and hit when ready do not wait.  Yes, I live in the desert southwest and can play 12 months a year. 

Guys play well, have fun, and please help not only your group but all the groups behind you have fun as well.

Edited September 18, 2023 by ajdegeno

[puttnfool]

On 6/12/2023 at 10:19 AM, secvols8 said:

The most stressful thing for a new golfer is trying to keep up with a unobtainable expected pace. How can someone that shoots 110 play a round in 4 hours?  The best solution is for longer intervals between tee times. I know that means less money for the club, but imagine playing with at least an entire par 5 worth of time in between groups. Most of the time on busy courses you wait for every single shot. That's infuriating. 

I shot 113 in 3:14 in July.  Not proud of the score, but it can be done if you're not completely inept. 

[puttnfool]

9 hours ago, SlowNLow said:

Yes, you are on to something, it's changing habits that can save time.     

Like you said, writing down scores, adding up the scores, etc. after walking off the green instead of doing it at the next tee.    

Ditto, cleaning the club just used, putting headcover back on, etc. putting it back in the bag, instead of moving on, then cleaning the club and putting it away when you get to the next shot.   

Some of my pet peeves for wasting time...

Thinking that golf is a casual, social activity, the golfer walks slowly, moves slowly, takes their time,  talks non-stop, looks at their phone, etc.   These guys may even say, "we aren't going anywhere", so they move even slower.  S-L-O-W....................

Guys who drive up to the tee box and just sit in the cart.     Get out of the cart and tee it up already.

Buying beverages at the green instead of the next tee.  Or in the middle of fairway when they could be hitting approach shots.  Beverage cart operators don't care about pace of play, and most are oblivious too it.

The cart golfers who are only 5 yards apart but each one sits in the cart waiting for the other guy to pull a club, pull out the rangefinder, take practice swings, then hit.     

The golfers who won't give up on a lost ball.    Or go fishing for balls. 

Then we have the "who's away" on the greens, one guy is 40', the other guy is 40.2", does it matter?    Somebody putt already.   The public golf courses could put a "gimme" zone around the hole too.  (This might actually slow things down)

Waving golfers up from the green has disappeared.    Especially on par fives, long par 3s, and short par 4s.    Nobody does this anymore, not where I play anyway, what happened? 

Actually some the traditions of the game make it slower, the who's got "honors" on the tee, whoever is away goes first, these go against ready golf.  "Ready golf" needs to clearly defined and pushed hard until it becomes the tradition.    

 

There is a defined gimme zone on every hole.  It's 4.25" in diameter and has a flag in it. 

[Hans...not Franz]

Sometimes it an be tough . We have a local course in Suffolk that will load the course with A and B starting tee placements , then complain that the pace is slow.  Also during groups events/blitzes have open play put out on te first tee while the groups is coming from the back starting tees to the first tee. 

During individual play/competition I’ve seen groups of 3 work very well for pace and ability to keep up . When you don’t pick up at double bogey you can get caught behind . 

Another fail is having multiple tee boxes. If playing an event pairing everyone on the same box helps things move . 

[shailey]

If the course is packed, the pro shop just needs to tell people to keep up or you will sit out while others go by.  But if they don't, you just have to tell people, we can't go anywhere, look in front of us and there is a group in front of them.  I'm sorry, it isn't us.

But in my opinion, there is no reason for long rounds at the amateur level even though it happens constantly.  I am a member of 3 courses and one of them I have not played at in a long time because of this.   The last time I played it, there were 5 groups on one hole with a twosome leading it.  We were 1:40 minutes into the round and on the 5th hole.  I was on the tee box with 3 other groups watching them in the fairway.  We yelled at them to move aside, they just completely ignored us.  One of the guys was taking 6 practice swings on EVERY single shot.  We called the pro shop twice from the course and they said they did not have anyone to send out there, they would handle it at the turn.  My family was spending about $750 a month there and they have lost all of it along with a lot of others that were spending a lot of money there.  So they lost the golfers that spend money, not the once a month warrior that tears the course up.  

Pace of play is subjective though.  If my 4some is first off, good luck keeping up.  Normal group can easily play under 2.5 hours while all shooting under 80.  I played Saturday with my dad who has leukemia and about to undergo his second round of chemo, an 11 year old child and a beginner (played less than a year) that is the pastor of my dad's church.  We were the first tee time on Saturday.  Those 3 played select shot against me, I played the tips and they played as far forward as they could go.  The longest hitter of those 3 would occasionally get one out there about 200.  We let two groups through (twosomes), stopped at the turn for drinks and still played in 3 hours and 25 minutes.  Every group behind us kept up with us leading it because the starter at that course told every group.  If you don't keep up, we will sit you out.  When I saw the rules, I just laughed and thought, "a lot of people are about to learn that you can play golf fast if they keep up with us".  Enjoy the round, have a beer, burger and enjoy stories and friendships after the round.  

Individual tournament play is different, I expect longer times and mentally prepare for it.