what is the proper pace of play when it's packed?

[TitleistMike]

Was this a pace question or an etiquette question ?

Hitting into a group is unwise. First time you can apologize for being lucky long. Second time it's coming back at you.

 

 

[Saturday Morning Sherpa]

It also depends on the design of the course.  I am a member of a semi-private course that has many forced carries off the tee box, several par 3's over water, knee-high fescue after the first cut of rough and severely sloping fairways that lead to lateral hazards.

You can always count on a few delays during the round for extended 3 minute searches and replays for penalty shots.

[Hacker60521]

I’m not sure a four hour round is always doable now, but. 4:15-4:30 is a win to me. I think slow play is really created when people aren’t playing ready golf or  playing realistically. By that I mean don’t play from the tips if you drive 200, or wait for the green to clear when you’re 300 yards out on a P5. That said, I just accept that pace of play will be slow at any tournament or outing.

Personally, I feel like I’m maintaining pace if I’m always within a stroke of the group in front of me. Other than that, there isn’t a lot I can do. 

[3Wack]

Slow play is so frustrating.  If you can't play in 4 hours or less, you are doing it wrong. 

Generally I learned to play early as it gave us the best chance of a 4 hour or less round.  Too many courses do not make any attempt to keep groups moving.

[Hacker60521]

6 minutes ago, 3Wack said:

Slow play is so frustrating.  If you can't play in 4 hours or less, you are doing it wrong. 

Generally I learned to play early as it gave us the best chance of a 4 hour or less round.  Too many courses do not make any attempt to keep groups moving.

I’ll agree that four hour rounds can be done if everyone knows how to manage their game etc. And I completely agree with you that I’d like to see courses do more to keep pace of play. But I really don’t envy the person who has to politely tell the group to speed things up and end up incurring the wrath of “do you know who I am” or “ I paid $Xxx to play here and I’ll play as I choose”, “you work for me since I’m paying” etc.

 

What could be cool is if GPS carts could tell you how much you were ahead or behind pace of play and whether it was you or because of slow play ahead of you. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Hacker60521

[JohnnyO3478]

We took 4 hrs 15 minutes to play an unfamiliar course - and I felt like we were the slow ones out there. Felt like 6 hours to me.  We could see the guys in front of us on the green - but we didn't have to wait on any T boxes.  The guys behind us did - at the second to last hole.  They barely finished in the light.

Felt like I had to 'fess up .....

Wife and I will play there in a couple of weeks - and I think I'll be able to move us through pretty quickly ....

[lydell54]

Wow, this is an excellent subject that has no real resolution.

As golfers, this is where each person's personality really becomes public. If you are a type A, you are NOT happy most of the time and I don't want you behind me on a golf course. If you are a type "don't give Sh*t" person, I don't want you in front of me. Singles are really in no man's land; and even doubles on a busy course of foursomes that really have no way to go.

My guess, they are playing at the wrong time of the day at the wrong time of the week, on the wrong golf course.

It boils down to the golf course. Now I only play public or resort type courses. Resort courses usually do have a pace of play, a starter and they are "generally" concerned of the POP.

I like those courses as everyone has expectations and the course is in your favor if you play quickly, not in your favor if you are the "I paid my money and you can't rush me" golfer. Most of us will likely agree, that attitude will ruin a golfing day. If a course decides to maintain their pace of play, it is great for everyone. I don't get courses that don't support their own policy because they don't want to offend one foursome.... as they really offend the rest of their customers. I'll never figure that decision. Offer to give the offenders their money back thru a rebate at the bar.

There are other movements out there: angry golfers who can be dangerous to confront, and courses that don't have the knowledgeable personnel who know how to start properly, feel golfers out and then properly incentivize golfers to be responsible golfers. It is not an easy task. 

For the record, this summer I really haven't seen much of this issue, and my home public course in Maryland normally runs very efficient. However, I rarely play on weekends any longer to avoid the issues discussed here. But when I do, I know I have to manage my own emotions, control only what I can, take lots of deep breaths and not make more of the event than it's just one day, chill out.

Golf courses that maintain their rough, their leaves, etc and maybe have one ranger posted "at that one hole" that backs up their golf course. Keeps golfers in check.

Easier said than done however regarding educating golfer on the golf course. It is tough to educate a bunch of egomaniac golfers, twice a year golfers, families that take kids out, etc. They are not thinking of playing nice with anyone else, they have their own issues (fill in the blank).

Great subject to raise, thanks.

[JeremyD]

Pace of play. Gosh. That's a hard one. It's all relative, to me anyway. Depending on the course, I can see 4 hours as the prescribed norm. A course back home, Kebo Valley GC, had a sign (back 25 years ago) that stated rounds should be played in 4:15 and they had clocks on occasional holes showing your tee time. It served as a good reminder. I do think some "easier and/or shorter" courses should be able to be played in under that time, but I can see some difficult courses allowing for more time. Easier and harder is different for everyone. Also, shorter courses could be slower, since longer hitters have to wait. I guess my theory may be wrong.

Ready golf is huge. Staying with the group in front of you can be hard, if that group plays unusually fast. I've played 5 hour rounds that didn't seem too bad, and 3 hour rounds that seemed awful. I guess I don't have a great answer since there are so many variables.

As for courses that are afraid to scare people off, I get it. I've worked at them.  I also think that sometimes if it's know that play is sped up, other golfers that stayed away may come play. 

 

 

[Brad Sharpe]

4 hrs is a comfortable pace 

[dinomack99]

I would love to see more active Rangers on the course suggesting that slower players consider a best ball format to catch up to the group in front of them. I have been pleasantly surprised by the quick pace of play here in the Raleigh area this summer. Even packed courses are still getting me out in under 5 hours. And the weaker players I sometimes get paired up with are more than happy to pick their ball up after 8 or so strokes on a given hole. 

[Duxman130]

My club has a number of older, long-time members that feel entitled to play at a slow pace and they NEVER allow faster pace groups to play through. 

Everyone knows the culprits, but unfortunately they're still allowed to book during peak times. I try to avoid playing behind them, but if I'm stuck, I really put the pressure on them by hitting as close to these groups without hitting into them. I do everything I can to make them feel uncomfortable. 

And if I'm able to pass them (via jumping ahead to the open hole), I don't replace the flagsticks in the cup. Instead, I leave the flagsticks on the ground so the slow group gets no pins to look at. 

A-hole move? Solution is easy - let faster players play through. 

If your slow playing group finds the pins pulled, you'll know why. 

 

 

 

[Aeromech787]

Most people don't look at one of the major factors. What tees are you playing from? Just because your buddies who are a 3 handicap are playing from the tips or the blacks and you (a 20 handicap) want to hang with them you might want to re-think playing the same tees as them as you spray your third ball into Brenda's garden. Just because you can hit 3 out of 10 balls on the range rolling out to 310 yards you might want to reconsider your choice of tee boxes. We've all seen this on the first tee box. 

[Mr Three Wiggle]

A little rant, a lille bit of a soapbox and a lot of just my opinion.

Pace of play is always too slow because slow play (imho) is accepted as the standard, I play with a foursome and we play several courses around town and we are varying handicaps -- 8, 11, 15, 22 -- and it does matter the course, if no one is in front of us we hardly ever (if at all) play to 4 hours and most of the time is it closer to 3 hours than 4 and some times less than 3. None of us rush our shots but we do play ready golf from tee to green. I am of the opinion that most of the time it is not what you do to prepare for a shot it is WHEN -- play like Brooks do your prep before it is your turn and when it is your turn just hit the ball. I feel most of the time is wasted between hitting the ball and the time you start to prepare for you next shot. There is so much you can do to speed up rounds that does not effect your prep or being rushed, I think rounds are normally 4 hours because that is what is deemed as acceptable and the standard if the standard was deemed to be 3:30 we would all get used to that and play at that pace. I do agree that rounds will be longer if you are on unfamiliar courses, the course layout i.e. if it has a lot of distance from one green to the next tee, if the course is really punishing as others have stated but you also may need to move up a tee on a new course. Even first time courses or courses that are neighborhood courses and you have to drive between rows of houses to get from green to tee our foursome is not much more than 4 hours if we do hit that mark. It also can be perception, people say that I play "fast" when I am by myself -- I usually play 18 holes by myself in around 90 minutes if I am not held up -- is that fast? I am an 8 handicap and the rules of golf say I should play a shot in 40 seconds when it is my turn, when I am by myself it is always my turn, being an 8 -- I am going to be around 80. 80 x 40 = 53 minutes, you add in 30 seconds to get from one shot to the next on average (I normally ride and obviously I am not taking near 40 seconds + 30 when I miss a 20 footer and have short put to get it in) and that puts you right around 90 minutes. So you do the math....we are going to do what is expected of us.

[BillL]

When we are carts on path (carts required at my club before 1PM) target is 4:10 off path 4:30 - early groups generally get around in less than 4 due to being lower handicaps and all play ready golf.  As golf exploded during Covid a lot of new golfers hit the links - our club has over 600 golf members (too many if you ask me) - and the result has been slower play, poorly raked bunkers, and even more ball marks not fixed on greens.  

As far as those folks who start hitting into you - there have been multiple videos on X(Twitter) and Instagram of fights breaking out due to that happening.  Generally, you are spot on, it is that you can only go as fast as the group in front of you and them as fast as the group in front of them.  So hopefully realize that it could get ugly if they keep hitting a group.  Or maybe their golf balls will start not being able to be found.

We no longer have marshalls to monitor pace of play - communicated on the screen in the carts (do folks really pay attention to that) and have not witnessed any of the pros enforcing pace of play.  Thus I try to get very early tee times or walk 9 holes late in the day when the course is less crowded and we can get around in under two hours walking.  

As the sign at Seminole says (only have seen it online never in person) - Play well, play fast; Play poorly, play faster.  Good mantra for all - be ready to hit when it is your turn, don't sit in the cart while your cart partner hits their shot (unless you can't physically walk to your ball) and get to your ball with 2 or 3 clubs and get ready when it is your turn, pick up at handicap max or triple bogey (unless in a stroke play tournament), and get to the 19th hole a bit sooner if possible.  

Cheers and hit em straight 

[richk9holes]

I had a 5 hr 15 min round Tuesday. Completely threw off my scoring even though I struck the ball well all day. 

Something I noticed is the self-fulfilling nature of everyone being resigned to it being "a slow day" next thing you know people are waiting at the tee box "We'll let them get ahead a bit so we don't run into them" now the group behind is running into you. 

At this course the 1/2 way house is situated between hole 8, 10 and 12. Ill-advised. I watched multiple groups make 3 pit stops. One left their balls on the green and went to get beers on 12. Just 4 balls, no people on a green for a long wait I'm staring at 165y in off a perfect drive. The group on 12th green were behind the people on 8th tee and 10th tee in line for beers. A guy in my group was riding, drove up and screamed at the guy buying beers to putt his ball. "There's nowhere to go" the guy replied. The 13th tee is down a hill 150y away through trees. How about you drive down there and see, either way don't leave your ball sitting for 10 minutes. Putt your putts and go wait at the next tee. Maybe play ready golf. These idiots were at a packed public course playing a 2 v. 2 better ball or some format other than stroke play I couldn't tell, but it was a lot of 3 people standing/sitting around while 1 hit a shot, then the whole group traveling to the next spot and 3 of them sitting there while 1 chunks it into the woods.

[JohnnyO3478]

Malfunction Junction at my home course.  Par 3 14, Par 5/4 15 and Par 4/5 16 (greens numbered).  The majority of the T shots on 15 and 16 land end up in or near the blue circle.  So you end up waiting to T off on 15 when guys are hitting their approach shots in on 16 a bunch. That probably more than anything backs up 14.  10 - 13 never seems to be a problem.  There's usually a ranger sitting behind the T on 14 and watching the clock during peak play hrs.  We've come to expect to have a seat under the tree after 13 and refill our water bottles, etc.

[Javs]

21 hours ago, RTH1 said:

A few pet peeves, The 220 driver who waits in the fairway for the green to clear, even though he's 270 yards away. The guy who sits in his cart waiting for the green to clear before getting out his range finder to measure the distance, then selecting his club, then taking countless practice swings, divots and all before playing.

Great points and there are a laundry list of things groups and individuals can do to speed up play. Ready golf is one. If riding drop the other rider off and go to your ball. Be ready to actually hit when your turn. Place clubs on the cart side of the green so, you can pick them up on the way to your cart. On greens be ready to putt when it’s your turn. When possible putt out. If you like to look from both sides of putts then do it as you walk up to the green. Never hit a practice putt if people are waiting in the fairway to play. Let shorter hitters play first from the tee as soon as the fairway opens. Enter scores on your card after you pull away. Do not sit by the green while people are waiting. Walkers walk with a purpose. People with a cart, walk to it after your shot or putts with a purpose. Help someone look for their ball after you have hit your shot. Oh and don’t forget to have fun!

[NoRebound]

Proper pace is entirely dependent on the course and if they are willing to enforce anything.  If you're playing a public course that's sending foursomes off in 8-minute intervals all weekend you're playing a 5-6 hour round.  The average double-digit handicap has a zero percent chance of finishing any hole in 8 minutes.  

I've played rounds in less than four hours, which is a delightful experience.  Hit, move, hit, move.  You build a rhythm to the game.  Seeing how a lot of courses in England, Scotland, and Ireland handle things you understand where we've gone wrong over here.  No carts, everyone has a caddy and everyone minds their own shot unless one of your partners gets into trouble.  You don't have two carts pulling up to every shot.   

If a course is willing to book tee times in 10-12 minute intervals (and increase the price to account for less play), encourage more players walking (depending on the layout) and have at least one marshall per nine you might find that you could cut the average round here to closer to four hours and have a more enjoyable experience.

[EugeGall]

My course has 10 minutes between tee times and we usually go round (4 ball) 3.5 to 4 hours. If it takes longer then I’m

[EugeGall]

Currently watching the BMW Championship at Wentworth. They’re backing up 2&3 groups on the tee boxes. This is what some weekend warriors model their golf on. Yes I get the pro’s are playing for a lot of money or keeping their cards, but it doesn’t help when this is what people see

[Dead Solid Bogey]

Tuesday and Thursday mornings are usually reserved 3 out of 4 weeks in a month for the extremely aged, infirmed, beginners, or others possibly needing extra time. I try to play with some of the extremely challenged a couple of times a month. Does a couple of things for me; good reminder and humbles me to face  how fortunate I am to be in rather good physical shape for my advanced age. Secondly, figure trying to be of aid to others a couple of times a month makes up for an equalizes my being a jerk the other 28 days ( my math, my rules ). 

[Javs]

1 hour ago, EugeGall said:

Currently watching the BMW Championship at Wentworth. They’re backing up 2&3 groups on the tee boxes. This is what some weekend warriors model their golf on. Yes I get the pro’s are playing for a lot of money or keeping their cards, but it doesn’t help when this is what people see

I hate slow play and players that hold up the entire course. The problem is the illusions of grandeur a lot of people have about their games. There is a reason we are playing at a club and not on TV. Sam Snead used to say miss it quick! Most people would be better off being quick and efficient. How many times have we seen the golfer that takes 5 practice swings or is a statue over the ball. They get paralysis by analysis. People would be better just picking the shot and club and without over thinking pull the trigger and repeat. Personally I like to be quick like if you blink you’ll miss it. Plus, you get to the 19th hole quicker! Just my thoughts. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Javs

[Scott A Hobbs]

I play a public course. My opinion: The ruff is to tall/thick for amateur players. Standing in the fairway with a 250 yard shot to the green when you only it it 150 off of the tee, most people ride ( I walk) and they don't know how to play out of a cart, they drive to one ball and the individual hits their ball then they drive to the other players ball. You should drop one player at their ball then proceed to your ball and play ready golf.

[tommyb1683]

I really don't like playing golf when the course is that packed. If I am in a groove I want to just keep moving and the more I think about a shot it seems the worse it will be, lol. I would say try to find different times or courses that aren't as busy. This is like in a traffic jam and everyone is honking, there is nowhere to go but people get frustrated. Best to avoid it all together. First tee time of the day never has anyone in front of them, just saying. 

[Tallwood88]

I played a round today of 5 hours 20 minutes.  Our regular group typically plays this course in 4 hours, sometimes less.  We waited on every single shot. The hold up was several groups ahead of us. After 8 holes I called into the pro shop to see if someone could come out and help break up the log jam. Never saw anyone and it just got worse. The course was busy but not that busy. The courtesy of letting faster groups play through has been lost. Golf sucks sometimes. 

[Javs]

35 minutes ago, Tallwood88 said:

I played a round today of 5 hours 20 minutes.  Our regular group typically plays this course in 4 hours, sometimes less.  We waited on every single shot. The hold up was several groups ahead of us. After 8 holes I called into the pro shop to see if someone could come out and help break up the log jam. Never saw anyone and it just got worse. The course was busy but not that busy. The courtesy of letting faster groups play through has been lost. Golf sucks sometimes. 

It only takes one or two groups to screw it up for the entire course.

[catlo]

I don't believe that any round should take longer than 4 hours whether the course is packed or not. The main culprit is no enforcement by marshals.  Whether public or private, it doesn't matter.  Marshals need to move players along.  For those who say they paid their money, well, . . . so did the people behind them!  If they are upset/offended, maybe they won't come back and pace of play will improve.   The factors which drive slow play are many.  The biggest reason is players playing the wrong set of tees.  After that, take your pick:  too much alcohol; too much joke/story telling; cell phone use; tee time intervals; not playing ready golf; looking forever for a golf ball as if they only have one golf ball; playing like $million is at stake; etc.  

[Javs]

12 minutes ago, catlo said:

I don't believe that any round should take longer than 4 hours whether the course is packed or not. The main culprit is no enforcement by marshals.  Whether public or private, it doesn't matter.  Marshals need to move players along.  For those who say they paid their money, well, . . . so did the people behind them!  If they are upset/offended, maybe they won't come back and pace of play will improve.   The factors which drive slow play are many.  The biggest reason is players playing the wrong set of tees.  After that, take your pick:  too much alcohol; too much joke/story telling; cell phone use; tee time intervals; not playing ready golf; looking forever for a golf ball as if they only have one golf ball; playing like $million is at stake; etc.  

Yes, slow play is caused by numerous issues. None of them good for the enjoyment of the entire field. Marshals need to do their job and have golf course management that supports them. Too many marshals just work for the free golf and don’t actually interact with the players. 

[CO2planker]

I agree with many of the replies to this topic.

I think the clocks that reflect your t-time are a great way to at least make groups aware of where their pace of play is.  Although this alone does not dictate actual pace of play, it is what the course expects and it gives the course marshall some actual reference for every group on the course.  This helps put it into perspective, even for the fast playing groups.  From my experience at many Colorado munis, having something that reminds the group where they are at is very helpful in the general pace for the entire day.  Many golf carts with GPS have a similar notification system as well.

The bottom line is, be aware of what is happening on the holes in front of you, and even behind you.  Simple awareness of basic golf etiquette goes a long way on the course!  You don't have to run between shots and you also don't need to be searching for lost golf balls in knee high native grass either.  Take the drop and actually save yourself a few strokes!  Play for bogey instead of actually carding that double or triple!  Most of are not professional or even close to scratch golfers so being a little forgiving on the lost ball thing is fine.  Take the lateral drop with a stroke!  I can almost guarantee your foursome will be fine with this!  Unless your in a tourney we do not need to be playing stroke and distance in our weekly buddies group!

 

The local junior program at The Links golf course here in Highlands Ranch, CO does a great job instilling golf etiquette into its junior golfers at an early age.  Simple things like 1 practice swing before a shot can go a long way over the course of a round!

[Dead Solid Bogey]

I will be pleasantly surprised if I finish todays outing in less than 6 hrs…. Playing in an extremely “ social “ format with 6 players per group. As I age, the time I am on the course doesn’t matter as much as if I am having fun and enjoying myself does…