L.A.B. DF3 Putters - 2024 Forum Review

[sirchunksalot]

I family got caught back up on this thread and read the introductions that have been posted recently and will say, you guys are killing it. 

All the mock ups that @jbernhas posted up have been insane and interesting. I would have a hard time just choosing between the 33 options they have on their website. Personally, I like the T alignment. 

I'm looking forward to your putters arriving and seeing how they improve your games. 

[ole gray]

This is going to be more fun watching than Uncle Rufus hunting for his upper plate after the state finals apple bobbing contest at the county fair! 

[GolfSpy MPR]

2 minutes ago, ole gray said:

This is going to be more fun watching than Uncle Rufus hunting for his upper plate after the state finals apple bobbing contest at the county fair! 

If we actually meet this expectation, we should all get special forum badges with an apple and a set of dentures.

[GolfSpy MPR]

Since everyone else is having fun with mock-ups of custom alignments, I'm almost certain I'll be going with this:

I don't particularly love the options with lines in the middle section, where the shaft attaches to the head. But as one with a strong tendency to take the putter back way outside the line and cut back across the ball, I really like the idea of the tiny alignment marker on the back of the putter, as a reminder line for my backstroke path. The two lines up front would be quite like my current alignment on my Edel.

[ole gray]

11 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

If we actually meet this expectation, we should all get special forum badges with an apple and a set of dentures.

Love it! 

[Rob Person]

10 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Since everyone else is having fun with mock-ups of custom alignments, I'm almost certain I'll be going with this:

I don't particularly love the options with lines in the middle section, where the shaft attaches to the head. But as one with a strong tendency to take the putter back way outside the line and cut back across the ball, I really like the idea of the tiny alignment marker on the back of the putter, as a reminder line for my backstroke path. The two lines up front would be quite like my current alignment on my Edel.

That is a great notion!  Except in practice, not many look towards the back, only the front. 

[ole gray]

On 4/15/2024 at 7:04 AM, jbern said:

Introduction

Thank you to L.A.B. Golf and the MGS Forum for this unbelievable opportunity to test the new L.A.B. DF3 putter!

As a husband and father of 3 young children (Ages are 6, 4 and 1.5 years old) my main job is reading children’s books in funny voices and expertly applying superglue and packaging tape to broken toys! I have a side gig in building creative (and mostly safe) obstacle courses for the kids to jump around on. As a family, we also like going on hikes and bike rides. The photo below is from a local hike that has a viewing/learning area about farms and crops and their various growth stages (my wife and I decided not to put our kids on any social media, so you’ll just get the backs of their heads )

We live in an area of Southern Michigan that is known for having a lot of lakes, so we try to spend a lot of time in and around the water (in the summertime) in this beautiful area. It's also a great area for golf and there are at least 12 golf courses within 20 minutes.

My day job is working as an electrical protection engineer for generating facilities throughout the state of Michigan, protecting the people and equipment within the facilities. It’s an incredibly interesting job and I’ve enjoyed it for the last 10 years!

As far as golfing goes, I started golf when I was 14 and played on the H.S. golf team. My peak handicap was 5 during that time. After high school I almost never golfed, playing 7 times over 15 years. I got hooked again in the fall of 2021 and haven’t looked back. I got my first ever fitting in the fall of ’22. I’m a proud member of the pushcart mafia and walk every chance I get (check out the Clicgear 4.0 review thread; in ‘23, I had lower scores when walking)!

I’ve put in quite a bit of practice to get my HCP from 17 in ’21 to my current HCP of 7.4. Putting has improved, but my golf game has traditionally gone as my driver goes and putting has always been my biggest weakness. Being a weak putter, L.A.B. golf putters have been of obvious interest to me, and there seems to be excitement around these putters in everyone from professionals to weekend warriors.  I love that they're using technology and engineering to try to make putting easier. I’ve had about 100 different combinations of L.A.B. putters in my cart over the past year or so! That being said, I have never rolled a single putt with a L.A.B. putter… yet!

I did a putter fitting in '22 and it was based on my static measurements and my putting stroke style. My putting stroke is straight-back straight-through so they recommended a mallet, face-balanced putter that is 33.25" long putter with a lie angle of 69*. We'll see what LAB recommends via their online fitting!

My current gamer putter is a Sub70 AL-6 armlock putter that is 39.5" long with a lie angle of 72*. I did an unofficial review last year of the putter and switching to armlock. You can see the review here. I had significant improvement switching to armlock!

VS.

Over the course of this test, I plan on putting the LAB DF3 through it’s paces in 3 main ways:

1. The key testing method is going to be on the course. Before switching to the AL-6 armlock, my average putts per round was 38.7 putts. With the armlock putter over the last 9 months my average putts per round is 34.1. Will the LAB DF3 improve my putts per round? I’m going to keep more detailed records on my putting than ever before (e.g. length of putt, make/miss, long/short, left/right, confidence over putt).
2. Tempo has been something that I’ve struggled with, so it’s what I practice most at home and so far that has consisted of rolling putts in my living room using a ruler to gauge my takeaway length and a mirror to keep setup consistent. This setup is easy, has worked and I’d like to see how quickly I establish a good tempo with the DF3.
   
3. I will also be using the EXputt putting simulator, which should be arriving any day now, to compare my armlock putter stroke to the DF3 and get data on face, path, and speed control.
   1. As a side test, I’m hoping to go to a true putter fitting experience and get their thoughts on the DF3 vs. my gamer armlock AL-6 putter.

I also want to answer the following questions:

• How long does it take to get used to the L.A.B. style of putting?
• Is going from armlock style to L.A.B. style more difficult than my transition from normal to armlock?
• Do I like the looks/feel/sound of the putter?
• How was the fitting and ordering process?

Thanks again to the MGS Forum staff and L.A.B. Golf! Let us know if you have any questions that you’d like answered throughout this test!

WOW that's some beautiful country up in your neck of the woods. Looks like ya'll probably have some prime coon hunting up that way. Anyways great job kicking this thing off!

[Blavin]

Congratulations to everyone selected that’d be so cool to get to test something like that. 

[TJ Hall]

Anyone feeling overwhelmed by the shear number of possibilities here???

[CFreddie]

5 minutes ago, TJ Hall said:

Anyone feeling overwhelmed by the shear number of possibilities here???

Not me! 

[GolfSpy MPR]

24 minutes ago, Rob Person said:

That is a great notion!  Except in practice, not many look towards the back, only the front. 

You're not wrong. In fact, in my present approach to putting, I actually perform my stroke almost visually blind to what's in front of my eyes. My mind (when I'm doing this right) is so preoccupied with a mental image of the hole that it is, for all practical purposes, all I "see."

My best case scenario would be that, perhaps, I do a couple of practice strokes before stepping into the ball, rehearsing a version of the path I kinda want to have (and using the reminder line for that). And then I setup to the actual putt, and that little line is finished with its task

[fixyurdivot]

Congratulations spies!! Have fun testing these putters, we look forward to your reviews.

[Cfhandyman]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Since everyone else is having fun with mock-ups of custom alignments, I'm almost certain I'll be going with this:

I don't particularly love the options with lines in the middle section, where the shaft attaches to the head. But as one with a strong tendency to take the putter back way outside the line and cut back across the ball, I really like the idea of the tiny alignment marker on the back of the putter, as a reminder line for my backstroke path. The two lines up front would be quite like my current alignment on my Edel.

I really like this one. Simple, elegant and functional. 

2 hours ago, jbern said:

Per @Cfhandyman's request. Here are some more double alignment aids for the DF3. I personally like all of them! Good suggestions Chris!

T with the arrow (EE & C on labgolf.com)

Double line, triple dot (I & U on labgolf.com)

Double line, LAB logo (I & X on labgolf.com)

@jbern a sincere thank you for doing this. They look absolutely great.  Really liking the double line with either triple dot or logo.  Here is my official reaction.  So many great options 

 

Edited April 22 by Cfhandyman

[jbern]

13 hours ago, ole gray said:

WOW that's some beautiful country up in your neck of the woods. Looks like ya'll probably have some prime coon hunting up that way. Anyways great job kicking this thing off!

You are definitely right on the hunting assumption! If I make it the 5 minutes to town without seeing a coon, fox, deer, ground hog, squirrel, rabbit or fresh road kill of some sort, I would think the world is ending soon.

[jbern]

I was able to get the putting data from 18Birdies into a spreadsheet. The data started when the Sub 70 AL-6 armlock putter became my gamer. As I said in my intro, my average putts per round with the AL-6 is 34.1 (34.08 actually). This puts me directly in between the 5 hdcp and 10 hdcp stats provided by @Cfhandyman from Arccos. Since my hdcp is 7.4, this makes sense. If I want to lower my handicap, I'll need to improve my putting. This data is a good baseline and it's pretty nice to see it visually on a graph and compare to a statistical giant like Arccos.

 

[GolfSpy MPR]

A bit of a preview for the off-course testing/comparison.

Here are a series of screenshots of my Blast data from a 50-putt session on ExPutt Saturday morning. The ExPutt was set for random distances from 5-30 feet, and these putts were rolled with my current Edel EAS 4.0 with Garsen Quad Tour grip:

Here is my HackMotion summary of those same putts:

And here is the ExPutt summary of the session:

Some takeaways:

• Blast measures more than I have here, but these are the numbers I try to focus on. For me, the loft/lie change measurements are important: when I can keep those numbers very low, my putting is much more consistent. The face angle measurement always has an asterisk: I aim to the right of my target; Blast can't know where my real target is, so because I return my putter closed to my aim, it will think I've pulled everything. What I want from that number is consistency. I keep track of tempo, but even more, total putt time: when my putting stroke starts taking close to (or more than) a full second, I get steer-y with it. I like to keep that number down around .9.
• The HackMotion numbers for that session were pretty poor for my. I don't pay much attention to ulnar/radial on putting, but would love to see the flexion/extension within range much closer to 90% of the time.
• Still too new to the ExPutt to have firm expectations for what I want to see there. Clearly, I want those standard deviations numbers as small as possible, but I don't yet have a good benchmark for what is realistic.

[GolfSpy MPR]

As an aside: when I post images of myself simultaneously using 4+ different analysis gadgets, I do so in part for others' amusement; it is over the top, for sure.

But sometimes I get pushback that deserves an answer. The suggestion (and sometimes that's putting it mildly) is that all this data is an impediment to making a clear putting stroke.

I disagree.

Obviously, it could be. But I don't see what I'm doing here as any different from hitting a shot on a Trackman (or, in my case, a Mevo+). Those devices give you multiple dozens of data points. Without question, chasing all of those data points simultaneously is a recipe for paralysis.

But suppose I'm in my garage, practicing partial wedges. Typically, I'm looking at two numbers: Carry Distance and Face to Target. Get a random number, hit the number, see if my face is square to target. Repeat.

But if something is going awry, then I can look at the other numbers to see if I can figure out what's up. The existence of numbers isn't a distraction unless you let it be.

For sure: it would be awesome to get wrist data, putter data, and ball data for one single measurement system, all on a single screen. But that is not something available to me. So I rig multiple measurement devices together, not because I'm chasing all the numbers at once, but because I want the numbers to be there if I need to dig into an issue.

[cnosil]

17 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

 

•  I aim to the right of my target; Blast can't know where my real target is, so because I return my putter closed to my aim, it will think I've pulled everything. What I want from that number is consistency.

This will be interesting to see with the LAB and if you switch to their putting approach of very light grip/thumbs off and letting the putters stay square to the path.   Kind of moves you toward needing to aim at the target since you are applying torque to “pull” the putt online.  

[Cfhandyman]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

A bit of a preview for the off-course testing/comparison.

Here are a series of screenshots of my Blast data from a 50-putt session on ExPutt Saturday morning. The ExPutt was set for random distances from 5-30 feet, and these putts were rolled with my current Edel EAS 4.0 with Garsen Quad Tour grip:

Here is my HackMotion summary of those same putts:

And here is the ExPutt summary of the session:

Some takeaways:

• Blast measures more than I have here, but these are the numbers I try to focus on. For me, the loft/lie change measurements are important: when I can keep those numbers very low, my putting is much more consistent. The face angle measurement always has an asterisk: I aim to the right of my target; Blast can't know where my real target is, so because I return my putter closed to my aim, it will think I've pulled everything. What I want from that number is consistency. I keep track of tempo, but even more, total putt time: when my putting stroke starts taking close to (or more than) a full second, I get steer-y with it. I like to keep that number down around .9.
• The HackMotion numbers for that session were pretty poor for my. I don't pay much attention to ulnar/radial on putting, but would love to see the flexion/extension within range much closer to 90% of the time.
• Still too new to the ExPutt to have firm expectations for what I want to see there. Clearly, I want those standard deviations numbers as small as possible, but I don't yet have a good benchmark for what is realistic.

@GolfSpy MPR thank you for sharing your data. In my mind, data is your friend if used wisely. Can you fall down the rabbit hole. Yes. But it can also help you identify quickly if things change in your swing. Will be fascinating to see how you incorporate ExPutt and your other tools into your daily practice routine and testing of the L.A.B. DF3

[Cfhandyman]

2 hours ago, jbern said:

I was able to get the putting data from 18Birdies into a spreadsheet. The data started when the Sub 70 AL-6 armlock putter became my gamer. As I said in my intro, my average putts per round with the AL-6 is 34.1 (34.08 actually). This puts me directly in between the 5 hdcp and 10 hdcp stats provided by @Cfhandyman from Arccos. Since my hdcp is 7.4, this makes sense. If I want to lower my handicap, I'll need to improve my putting. This data is a good baseline and it's pretty nice to see it visually on a graph and compare to a statistical giant like Arccos.

 

Love this. You now have a nice baseline to work from as you start testing the L.A.B. DF3

[Cfhandyman]

Good news from L.A.B.  Fitting results are in  This is what I received.  Your up next @CFreddie

“Hi Chris,

Thank you for your video! Your putter looks to be resting in a good position flat on the ground. Your suggested specs for lie angle and length are 69°/35.5”, which is pretty standard. Your eyeline looks like it's a little inside the ball which is why I'd like to take you down to 35.5" in length. This should help your eyes fall a little more over the ball.. Please let me know if you have any questions about your position or our products! 

If you’re still deciding on which putter, know that these specs would be the same for all of our models, as long as the style doesn’t change (armlock, broomstick, etc).

If you have an order already placed, please send confirmation of what specs you would like that order updated with so we can proceed with your putter.

Best,

Jack

Jack Blackburn

Remote Fitting Specialist

L.A.B. Golf Company

Home of Directed Force Putters & Press Grips

600 Dale Kuni Rd, Suite 110 | Creswell, OR 97426

Main:  (833) 4-LABGLF

[email protected] | www.labgolf.com

 

[MattWillGolf]

I had anticipated tracking my putts via the Shot Scope H4. But for some reason my home course gives the H4 fits when it comes to locating greens. So I am also tracking them manually on my scorecard. Today's 9-hole round using my Evnroll ER11v was made up of the following putting stats: 6 2-putts, 2 1-putts and 1 3-putt.

[MattWillGolf]

My mockup for today. I am also leaning towards the heavier version as my ER11v is on the heavier side. But that will be part of the discussion with the fitter.

[GolfSpy MPR]

4 minutes ago, MattWillGolf said:

I had anticipated tracking my putts via the Shot Scope H4. But for some reason my home course gives the H4 fits when it comes to locating greens. So I am also tracking them manually on my scorecard. Today's 9-hole round using my Evnroll ER11v was made up of the following putting stats: 6 2-putts, 2 1-putts and 1 3-putt.

Yeah, I've got Arccos data for the past few years, but I do all my putting numbers manually on my phone during the round. I don't even have the Arccos sensor on my putter. If I want accurate data, GPS just isn't fine-grained enough for measuring a few feet.

[jbern]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

This will be interesting to see with the LAB and if you switch to their putting approach of very light grip/thumbs off and letting the putters stay square to the path.   Kind of moves you toward needing to aim at the target since you are applying torque to “pull” the putt online.  

I was thinking the same thing. @GolfSpy MPR might be the best candidate of the group for needing to "untorque yourself!" 

[jbern]

Woohoo!!! My online fitting results are in!

"Thank you for your video! Your suggested specs for lie angle and length are 70°/32.5”, which is a little more upright than our standard which is 69°. Your eyeline looks like it's in a great position over the ball, but you're gripping down on the club about 2" which is why I'd like to take you down to 32.5" and have you grip at the end of the putter. Please let me know if you have any questions about your position or our products! 

If you’re still deciding on which putter, know that these specs would be the same for all of our models, as long as the style doesn’t change (armlock, broomstick, etc).

If you have an order already placed, please send confirmation of what specs you would like that order updated with so we can proceed with your putter."

Pretty close to the static fitting that I got in the fall of '22! Below is the video I submitted for the fitting!

 

[Cfhandyman]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Yeah, I've got Arccos data for the past few years, but I do all my putting numbers manually on my phone during the round. I don't even have the Arccos sensor on my putter. If I want accurate data, GPS just isn't fine-grained enough for measuring a few feet.

@GolfSpy MPR I would tend to agree with you.  The putting data on Arccos while improved is still the weakest link. Unless, you specifically mark where the flag is, the distances will be off.  Even with a tap in putt, it will record it as 2’ due to GPS. So I interpret the distance putting (0-10, 10-20’ etc) with a large grain of salt. It’s the one thing I check closely to make sure it records the actual number of putts as it has a tendency to default to two.  One of the things I’m looking forward to is finding out what my actual make percentage is from 5’, 10’ etc.  In my mind it’s an area where I can definitely improve upon..

[Chriso]

21 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Congratulations spies!! Have fun testing these putters, we look forward to your reviews.

Can’t wait to strokes gained putting

[GolfSpy MPR]

3 hours ago, Cfhandyman said:

@GolfSpy MPR I would tend to agree with you.  The putting data on Arccos while improved is still the weakest link. Unless, you specifically mark where the flag is, the distances will be off.  Even with a tap in putt, it will record it as 2’ due to GPS. So I interpret the distance putting (0-10, 10-20’ etc) with a large grain of salt. It’s the one thing I check closely to make sure it records the actual number of putts as it has a tendency to default to two.  One of the things I’m looking forward to is finding out what my actual make percentage is from 5’, 10’ etc.  In my mind it’s an area where I can definitely improve upon..

Had my first tracked round of the year today, and Arccos was an unmitigated total dumpster fire.

Started the round, for some reason, without engaging the phone's microphone, so it was not automatically picking up any shots.

And then the manual putting entry was another level of garbage. Whether attempting to drag the hole location and the first putt location to their proper spots, or using the distance entry, I'm amazed that neither the hole location nor the first putt location will stay in their proper places, but constantly jump around. I had issue with this last summer (using a Samsung), but it was an order of magnitude worse using my Pixel today.

I might actually break out an old iPhone 6 (that doesn't even have a SIM card) to see if that will work.

[CFreddie]

Hate to hear that @GolfSpy MPR - I've been using my Arccos on my last round and didn't have much of any issue (although I had to manually set almost every pin).  You have me a bit worried about using it for this test - I know GPS on it isn't perfect, but I tend to "place" the pin as I'm basically touching the flag so I feel like I'm getting somewhat close here.